Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I won't go as far as to ask what would be considered THE top tiered army, because I feel that the debate on that could get ugly fast. However, my friends and I all picked armies off of the flavor and fluff alone, disregarding any rumors about their actual play performance. Now that we have settled on our armies, and have already started purchasing/painting/creating/etc... we are wondering what the armies to beat will be. We plan on making a bunch of PaperHammer armies and play testing out stuff against these armies, and hopefully developing some decent strategies to keep us at least competitive when facing these armies, rather than just getting wiped off of the table pathetically.

I don't think tiers really exist anymore, at least not to the extent they did in 4th.

Orks and Chaos seem like the top dogs.

Sisters are very tough too but they don't seem to be very common.

Sternguard w/ combi-meltas and drop-pods, Dual Fzorgle CSM w/ plague marines and obliterators, and Nob biker lists seem to be the premium armies at the moment. That's not to say other armies aren't good, of course.

Oooh. I like seeing that one of those options fits under my army list Anyway, thanks for that. I have heard quite a bit about the dual lash thing on the tactics forum. As for the bikers thing, I've heard a good amount about Orks being pretty mean right now, but thanks for narrowing it down to what their power unit is. I think I'm gonna lurk around the army list reviews for some good ones, try and make my own improvements, and then use those as some play-test armies.

Nob Bikers aren't "the" power unit for Orks. It is just one of their many powerful builds. It is very hard to make a bad army from that codex.

What if you take all maxed out grot squads, pimped out flash-gitz, wyrd boyz, stormboyz , and tankbustas?

Flash Gitz aren't TOO bad. And I think 60 storm boyz would win you some games.

thehod wrote:What if you take all maxed out grot squads, pimped out flash-gitz, wyrd boyz, stormboyz , and tankbustas?

Storm boyz are good, and wyrd boyz are pretty fun and can do damage, though not much.

We don't talk about flashgits and tankbustas, they don't exist.

and @ MarvinGaye...Daddy- Flash gits are terrible they are bad and awful rolled into one.

So what's the general strategy with the sternguard armies? Keep everything on reserve, drop a bunch of drop pods with big squads of sterns in it, and just rely on their special ammo types to take out everything in sight?

Orks builds propably compete for two or three places on the TOP 5. The Big Green Mob is the dominant build at least here.

( BTW love the avatar . I exploded with laughter and propably scared my neigbours when I realized what it was . )

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/218863.page

See the above thread for the basics of Sternpodding. It's becoming a lot harder to pull of though, now that people are finally understanding the new reserve rules (which let you put any unit in reserve at the start of the game). The Sternguard in Drop pod lists really have a difficult time when they do not get the first strike, not to mention facing armies that include inquisitors with mystics.

I believe the top lists are the following: Nob Bikers, Lash + Oblits.
After those two lists there are a whole lot of other lists which are about equal (Ork Horde, Battlewagon spam, Kairos + Bloodcrushers, Immolater spam, Land Raider spam)

CENArtDamage wrote:So what's the general strategy with the sternguard armies? Keep everything on reserve, drop a bunch of drop pods with big squads of sterns in it, and just rely on their special ammo types to take out everything in sight?

Basically turn 1 30 sternguard drop on you and rapidfire you to oblivion. Then they use librarians to keep them out of close combat and in rapid fire range. Combi meltas and combat squads lets them take out several armored targets on the turn they drop.

Ork Nob Bikers are the most powerful build in the current metagame (as of the last GT). Chaos Lash pulls up second. Expect to see these armies especially if you are in a 'Ard Boyz tournament.

Nob Bikers become weaker at the 2500 range.

I think this was what the OP was asking for...

in no particular order...

chaos space marines- 2x lash, plague marines or noise marines, obliterators/defilers or vindicators

chaos demons- GUO or fateweaver or bloodthirster, bloodcrushers, plaguebearers or horrors, soulgrinders

space marines- any HQ, assault terminators, tac squads, land raiders and vindicators

space marines- librarians, sternguard (drop pods), tac squads (drop pods)

space marines- master of the forge, 6x ironclads (drop pods), stealth scouts or tac marines (drop pods)

orks- 2x warboss on bike, 2x10 nobs on bikes, grots

orks 2x big mek with KFF, 3x15 lootas, shoota boys/grots, 9x kans

orks 2x big mek with KFF, nobs with kombi-skorchas (in battlewagons), shoota boys, battlewagons

orks big mek with SAG, 3x15 lootas, shootas, 3x3 kannons

In my mind you need rules for deciding whether or not a codex is tiered.

1) Ease of play. How easy is this army to win with? Does it take much thought? The less thought, the higher the tier (based on tounry results, mistakes less likely)
2) Consistency. Does it play the same way very easily. Can you be sure you will get what you need when you need? Can the army perform even if the dice gods hate you?
3) How does it work with the field of other armies. Basically does it have any bad match ups? how many?

Using this I would tier things as
1 Orks, Chaos
2 Blood Angels, New Marines, Black templar, Nidzilla
3 Daemons, Eldar, Sisters of battle, Dark Eldar
and non tiered armies

The reason for teir 1: Orks are easy as sin to use and due to the sheer volume of dice you roll, you are most likely to roll statistically average which is all you can hope for in the game. Chaos is another puppy... its very easy to get 2 lash princes and some oblits and then combo them for t3h w1n

Reason for teir 2, BA, new marines and black templar are all very good armies that take a bit more skill to use than the teir 1 meaning that they are harder to use and thus tiered lower. Nidzilla is teir 2 now because it is harder to win than previous. Not as many cover saves for the monsters makes them easier to kill as well as many of the other.... nuetering jobs they recieved.

Reasons for tier 3: Eldar/DE and sisters are very hard armies to win with. You need to judge your opponents army and his play style to see if you are going to be aggressive or if you need to play conservative to win.
Daemons are just too random. They math hammer very well.... but they are not consistent enough and have far too few models to always be "average".

Non teired... well Laziness and such makes me not want to type :p

Orks, Chaos, Sternguard marines.

Mech sisters of some varieties. But sisters are much rarer and more expensive to build....

What about Land Raider Assault Terminators? I'd be honestly surprised if they didn't do at least reasonably well, for the simple reason that they pound Lash into the dust.

Don't forget mech DE. You won't see much of it, but what you do see will trash your face. It's also amusing how it's biggest foils are IG and tau gunlines which are an increasing rarity and it's uniquely able to handle most other tier 1 lists with ease.

Also LR spam templars with giant squads of preferred enemy troops.

Not sure how BA end up in Tier 2. With the new SM book, everything in the BA PDF is way overcosted for what it does, and they dont get any of the new toys and gimmicks that new SM have.

Additionally, everything they had that was really decent in 4th got the nerf-bat treatment (i.e. rending, FnP, etc)

With the new SM book, everything in the BA PDF is way overcosted for what it does, and they dont get any of the new toys and gimmicks that new SM have.

I'm not sure BA are a top list either, but if they are, it's on the strength of their jump infantry.

As you say, there's a lot of crap units in there, but Vet Assault Squads and Honor Guard are great units for the points.

I'm not sure BA are a top list either, but if they are, it's on the strength of their jump infantry.

As you say, there's a lot of crap units in there, but Vet Assault Squads and Honor Guard are great units for the points.

QFT

My buddy plays BA and they can be very good. But yes to get around the over costed stuff you almost need to have lots of jump packs.

But yes to get around the over costed stuff you almost need to have lots of jump packs.

That's why it's such a godawful excuse for a codex. It should come along with something like the helpful paperclip from MS Office.

"It looks like you're trying to make a Blood Angels list! Would you like to:
- Load up on Jump Infantry
- Try playing a game you actually understand"

Nobody's mentioned Tau, IG, or Necrons. Could there be a pattern here?

I just have a hard time with the 50 pt premium you are paying to take them as troops (and lose wargear options). while some of that gets you one DC guy, the rest just hurts the overall viability.

Yes, they all have ancient codexes and don't stand up well in the current edition. No one mentioned dark angels either. If your going to try and hamfist a reference to the "melee is the new 40k" thread in the discussion forum be more open about it.

Nor, did they mention the Inquisition per se, the grey knights, or Space Wolves. I was ramping up to make the comment that while these armies still win, some consider them not even worth mentioning.

With the possibility of some of these "ancient codexes" being reworked in the next year and a half, it might be a good time to do some bargain hunting.

Also, I like to root for the under dog. The more someone says an army is weak the more interested I get in playing that army. And If you win with that army it's all the sweeter.


Edited for additional army

Only 2 armies to be definently found in as good as all top placings at the moment are Orks and Chaos. (Ork nob bikers beeing the first by far)

Using this I would tier things as
1 Orks, Chaos
2 Blood Angels, New Marines, Black templar, Nidzilla
3 Daemons, Eldar, Sisters of battle, Dark Eldar
and non tiered armies

Well, Orks and Chaos are unquestionable.
BA is hardly tier 2, while the new Space Marines and Nidzilla are. BT is more tier 3.

whats your justification?