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I've decided to write down my impressions on the Warriors of Chaos units, largely as a way to formalize my thoughts and see whether they make sense. Then I thought, why not post it on the internet?

Terms:

This assessment is written from the basis that there are 3 types of WoC list. Blitz list, which is composed of fast moving hard hitters and tries to win on turn 2/3 with a series of titanic assaults, general list, which has some of everything and has no real game plan, just reacting to the enemy's deployments and getting in combat whenever/wherever, and blaster list, which maxes the magic phase.


Uber Lords (600+ points):

Archaon

He's the Lord of the End Times, the Everchosen, but is he the best Lord choice?

Ok, first off, the baggage. Archaon brings with him his old drinking buddies from the Chaos Wastes, the Swords of Chaos. A unit of Chaos Knights is not a bad unit, so it's no hardship to bring them along, but being ITP is a fail for a fear causing unit in a ld 10 general's army and not letting any other heroes join them is vexing. Lastly, Archaon needs to roll alone to get max benefit from his steed's move through terrain. Basically, I'd recommend deploying and using them seperately in most cases. Hammer + Hammer = Hammer, and you want them hitting in 2 places.

Now to examine Archaon himself. The first thing you'll notice is that his offense isn't quite as overwhelming as one would imagine from his price tag and rather exalted rep. He doesn't have hatred, he doesn't have KB, he doesn't have a multi-wound weapon and his strength is an ordinary 5. His steed adds a few more s5 attacks in the picture, but he's still not a first class attacker.

Releasing U'zuhl improves things quite a bit, but you still looking at a fairly underwhelming attack profile. He'll swing 10 times, hit the enemy 7 and himself once, wound the enemy 5, and they'll ward save one or two. He's a Lord killer, certainly, but I just expect more hit from someone with his price tag. Rate him a solid B+ for hitting power. He's not quite top-tier, but very close.

Now, on defense, he's pretty much the same. He rocks a 1+ armor save and a 3+ ward save, and has the special rule that the best you can wound him on is a 3+. Further, the enemy has a -1 to hit him in melee or missile fire, due to his souped up MoN. The only thing he's lacking is immunity to KB/multiple wound weapons.

To put that in perspective, it would take like two hundred ogre great weapon attacks to kill him (1/6 to hit, 2/3 to wound, 1/2 to get past armor, 1/3 to get past ward). He's extremely rugged, it's only in comparison to the game's resiliency superstars (Dwarf Lord kitted for invincibility, Dreadlord kitted for invincibility) that he suffers. He can catch a KB or a cannon shot, and then he's only got his 3+ to fall back on.

His leadership is top notch. He's ld 10 with 18", and he's also the BSB. It'd be nice if he could make his nearest unit stubborn or something, but there's no flies on this.

He's also got great mobility. Dorghar moving through terrain is actually probably better than flying. He's got the range he needs, and he's got no business galavanting around as a flier anyway. I'd put his range at top tier.

So we've got the guy who can do everything at the very top of the game. There are whole lists that Archaon can beat. Is he the best you can do with the points?

Well, basically, he costs as much as a fully kitted out Hero/BSB + Lord. and then some. He doesn't hit nearly as hard as they do, he has much better defense and he gives better leadership. I'd say he's lacking for a blitz list, where only offense matters, but I think he's as good or better than basic Lord/heroe for a general list. Obviously, he's got no place in a blaster list.

You have to be careful when using Archaon, though, that you don't spend a preposterous amount on characters. He only uses a Lord slot, so if you go on and grab a full character complement you have like 1200 points in 4 guys. When you add in the Swords of Chaos you had better be a fan of marauders, as even a little bit of Chaos Armor will see you fielding more of a squad than an army.

Galrauch

Ugh, it's Kairos' little brother.

Galrauch suffers from the classic WHFB problem of trying to do two things, and failing at both. He wants to be a caster and a dragon, and he certainly is both of those things, but he's very mundane about it.

As a caster, he's seriously deficient. His good thing is that he gets the MoT and the whole spell list. That's decent, but this is WoC. There are amazing arcane items and daemonic gifts, and he doesn't make up for not having any of them on your Lord.

As a dragon, he's similarly meh. He's a chaos dragon with improved initiative, bs, and other skills that don't matter. A profile of straight 6's is impressive, but without any special rules to back it up beyond terror, flight and 3+ armor/6+ ward save he's not really a heck of a Lord.

I mean, let's compare him to a Sorcerer Lord on a dragon. Give him the spell familiar and the MoT. Now he's basically the same guy, for a hundred points or so less, and he's got 2 wound pools (Caster + mount) which can cut either way. He's also got points left over for all the good arcane items and gifts that make a WoC caster amazing.

Further, let's look at the emo-test. I mean, honestly! Stupidity is bad enough, but he still has to test in combat! Further, he might wound himself. Worse yet, he might wound himself in combat and contribute to the opponent's CR. Ridiculous.

He does have the breathe of chaos, but that's not nearly enough to make up for his manifold deficiencies as warrior and wizard. He has no place in any WoC list, unless it's theme.

Kholek

Kholek is an unholy monster, and currently the game of WHFB isn't really ready for him.

Let's get it straight, this is the best blitzer in the codex, maybe in the whole game. He compares favorably to a Bloodthirster, and if he meets one that left its obsidian armor at home he can let it charge him and beat it to death.

The best thing about him, obviously, is his preposterous profile. 3 8's, in stats that matter, is just about as good as it gets. No, I'll go further. It is as good as it gets. It's the best profile in the game. Move 8, s 8, 8 wounds. That, right there, is monstrous, but it gets more absurd.

He's got t6, which is usual for a monster, but he backs this up with a 2+ armor save and a titanic weapon skill, in start contrast to most of the big guys, and he's got a 2+ armor save to keep off the skink blowpipe darts or whatever. 7 attacks is also rather severe.

And then he's got a magic hammer! He's already grinding stuff underfoot, and somehow he felt the need to get a d3 wound weapon.

His shooting attack not needing to roll to hit and having no limit to its range is icing on the cake. You can use that to force enemies into his charge range, just walk him out in front of the army and start zapping their dragon. Their Lord won't take that for long, unless he's a vampire or has some other way of healing up.

Importantly, he's fully under your control unless you, or the enemy, zaps him. He's not stupid, or frenzied, or under any other kind of movement compulsion. He's an ITP terror causer with move 8, large target for seeing over stuff, and monster wheeling.

There's really not much more to say about him. He's an enormous monster that crushes everything. He can protect your army from lightning magic if you are up against the lizzies, but whatever, they won't be casting long when he's wiping them off his hammer. He's the best Lord for a blitz list, and does just fine in a generalist list. He's obviously no blaster.

Last, important note, he has a thermal exhaust port. He's initiative 1. Pit of shades or the skaven's Brass Orb will ruin your day, and a giant Thumping with Club will hurt. Mitigate these risks and he'll do you good.

Super-Lords (400+)

Sigvald

Siggy is eminently single-purpose. He's about leading a unit of infantry and being a tough guy in the center of your army. It's a useful task, and one he excels at.

First off, his best stuff. He's ld 10 and stubborn. If there's a BSB nearby his unit has a 1/144 chance of breaking before the last man falls. Ld 10 on the general is not to be despised.

He's also much more rugged than you'd expect from a Slaaneshi. 1+ save and regen. Fierce. He's no Archaon, but he's not going down easy, except for the glaring vulnerability to KB.

He's also got ASF...but it's mediocre. 7 high ws s5 attacks won't kill an attacking character that has any business charging a Lord. It'll pull 3 or 4 wounds off attacking infantry, but once again no one will send anything but a char killer charging Siggy.

His mobility stuff is so much glitz and glitter. He's a foot slogger, and he's going to be the general. He can't get away from the center to go around in terrain without hurting the army's leadership, and he can't march far enough to do all that much. It'll be useful occasionally, but in general he'll be in a block, and fight as blocks do, in a line, facing front.

So, though he's single purpose, I think that purpose is insufficient to justify his pricetag. He doesn't fight as hard as I want from a Chaos Lord choice, and ld 10 is nice, but not such an improvement on 9 that I'd take my Lord off a barded steed for it. His big selling point is stubborn for one unit, and that's just not enough for double lord points and loss of fighting skill.

Stupidity at 10 is rare enough that I don't count it against him. He simply doesn't hit hard enough to justify the loss of mobility. I'd prefer to have a Chaos Lord and BSB, even without stubborn.

Vilitch

Finally, the blaster guy.

When reading Vilitch's fluff I was initially worried he was going to be a Galrauch-esque hybrid. The whole bit about Thomin screamed out fighting wizard lord, which usually doesn't go too well.

Fortunately, that's apparently just theme. The only manifestation of the fighting is that he's got a decent profile and 2 hand weapons. You are pretty much paying just for the casting. He's got the Mark of Tzeentch, all 6 spells, and the all-important dice-fu.

With his ability to take enemy's failed dice and use them against them, Vilitch insures domination of the magic phase. He can cast till he runs out of spells. Now, granted, he's no Kairos, so he actually will run out of spells, but dice aren't usually a problem, so long as the enemy is trying (and failing, thanks Skull of Katan/MoT) to dispel his stuff.

He's up against stiff competition in the Sorcerer Lord, but I think he manages to close the deal. He's only a hundred points more expensive, less if the guy has gifts, and his dice fu frees up the rest of the list from taking the magic items that basically do the same thing.

It's also worth pointing out that VC's and Ogres, ie armies that cast constantly and don't mind failing 1/3 of their casts, will find themselves in deep trouble vs. Vilitch. I've seen Manfred lists fail 6 or 7 casts in a single magic phase.

I can't say he's actually better than a Sorcerer Lord, but that speaks more to the SL's goodness than Vilitch's weakness. Either is a great Lord choice for a blaster list.

Valkia

Wow, a Khornate Valkyrie. That's just a cool concept.

A quick glance reveals that Valkia is the Super-Lord version of Archaon. She's fighty, enduring, mobile and leadership in equal measure, though in all cases somewhat less than he.

On offense she's got 6 s7 ws ++ KB attacks. Obviously, that's preposterously good. It's situational as to whether Archaon's ignores armor saves or her KB is better, but I'd at least say she's in the ballpark. Further, this is roughly what a Chaos Lord kitted to char kill puts out.

On defense she initially looks unimpressive, with a 2+ save instead of the 1+ everyone else has and no regen or ward save, but she makes up for it by subtracting 1 from the enemy's strength and 1 from their attacks. Aside from a notable vulnerability to KB this is pretty good defense, esp. when combined with a weapon skill high enough to ensure that nobody hits on 3's.

As for speed, she's a flier. It doesn't get any faster. On the other hand, she can't really pal around with anyone but foot sloggers, but she's always threatening to zip out and dice somebody.

Leadership-wise, she's got Chaos Lord leadership, and she gives off the BSB aura. Good stuff. She's also a fear-causer, which helps out whichever unit she's chilling in.

Her biggest weakness is that her offensive power (unlike Arky's) falls to nill when she gets charged. Further, I've already noted her lack of any kind of ward save or regen. Ordinarily this is made up for by her shield and armor, but against any kind of one-shot kill she's left hoping.

Ultimately, I'd say she's the best for the balanced army if you want to go the super-Lord route, but ponying up the extra bits to buy Archaon, or sliding down to get a Lord is probably more competative than the middle of the road.


Ordinary Lords:

Chaos Lord

The Chaos Lord is the perfect storm of a warrior character.

First off, great mundane gear. He's got a 4+ save built in, and grabbing a barded horse and a shield get him down to a 1+ before he takes a gander at the magic items. This is non-trivial.

Next, he's got an astounding variety of mounts to choose from. Honestly it makes the other lords look like hobos. Let's take a look at each one.

First off, let's get the bad ones out of the way.

The Palanquin of Nurgle is wretchedly bad. The only thing I can see going for it is that it looks awesome, and it occupies the squares of like 6 chaos warriors, so you can get a big rank bonus in a small unit. Otherwise, it doesn't improve your move and the attacks are wretchedly bad.

The Slaaneshi thingy is similarly bad. Move 20 is great, but nobody can keep up with that. As tough as Chaos Lords are, you dno't want to go it alone. Further, there's no barding on that thar beasty, and that hurts the Armor save. The only real use I can see for it is to keep your Lord up with a marauder cav unit, but who wants to?

The Tzeentchy disk is another example of a unit from another codex sneaking in. A flying mount for your Lord is a fine idea, but the Dragon and Manticore are the right way to do this, not the US 1 disk. The Lord needs to be part of units, in there and swinging, or flying around on his own and crushing whole units. The Disk is more for sorcerers and the like, who need to bail out of units that are about to get smashed, and avoid warmachine line of fire.

Finally, with the Juggernaught, we get to something that needs a second look. It's attacks are frankly serious, GoGo KB, and frenzy with KB is obviously not atrocious. I just hesitate to put it on your general, despite the bonus to armor save. This sort of thing kind of necessitates him hiding behind the army to keep from getting baited out, then jumping in after the enemy stalls on your lines. I'd want my Lord in the front, swinging from the start. Still, no flies on this guy.

EDITED: It doesn't have KB. Aww...thinking of my Herald I just presumed they are similar. That's much worse. I'll think on withdrawing my recommendation for the dude.


The Daemon Steed is pretty good. I don't find the attacks compelling though, prefer to pay a little less and still get most of the bonuses from...

The Barded Mount. An economical 2 to armor save and high movement, w/out keeping you out of units or making you frenzied. This is my choice for the generalist Lord.

The Manticore is my choice for the blitzer. It doesn't hit as hard vs. rank and file as the dragon, nor does it take hits as well, but it kills characters much better, and ld 9 is enough to keep it under control in the rare rounds you don't want to charge.

The Dragon is a dragon. We've all seen them before, and he's duly ferocious. As mentioned, I prefer the Manticore, but it's hard to go wrong with a flying terror causer Lord. The 2 Breathe weapons are just bling though, the wounds it adds to the Lord's charge, and the rank breaking, are the key to these things, breathing is just something you do while you come back on the table from running dudes down.

Lastly the chariot. Basically, I think the Juggernaught is better for this kind of work. They operate shockingly similarly, hiding around behind the army and then jumping in on a corner, but due to the chaos challenge rule I think the jugger's KB is better than the chariot's impact hits, at least on Lords. The chance of a cannonball stealing your ride is also worth noting, and the easy KB an enemy with s5 and a GW can farm off you.

So that's how I see it, barded steed for the generalist, manticore for the blitzer. Now let's get to the meat of these guys.

Beyond the armor, Chaos Lords conceal the meanest US 1 non-SC statline in the whole game. They are tougher than Vampire Lords, straight up. The excellent statline allows proper use of the armory, which is even better.

WoC are spoiled for choice when it comes to magic items.

The weapons that I think are worthwhile are the Flaming Sword, the Father of Blades, the Axe of Khorne, the Glaive of Putrefecation and the Whip of Subversion. The first build I'd like to recommend is combining one of them with the Helm of Many Eyes.

Helm of Many Eyes + Flame Blade is the simplest killy setup for the Chaos Lord. The flames beat regen and the wound multiplier obliterates anything you hit. A Lord with this setup can ride out of a unit into a band of maneaters and kill them all. Not run them down, slaughter them. He can take a Tyrant's charge and lop his head clean off, or take about half of Kholek's wounds off. He's got a weakness to things that are immune to fire, but they are rare, and that's it.

The best armor is the Armor of Damnation, which makes you reroll successful attack rolls. Combining this with the Father of Blades (and an amulet of protection + MoT, for those who want to go the extra mile) leaves you with a character that's nigh-invincible. They have a 9/36 chance to hit you, and an 11/36 chance to hit themselves, so long as their ws is between 4 and 8.

The glaive and the whip are best left to Heroes, I think, as your Lord doesn't want to leave enemies alive long enough for their effects to work. The Axe of Khorne, on the other hand, has a brute simplicity to it that everyone can appreciate. Heads Come Off!

The Helm of Regen is obviously a generally nice item, combine it with a weapon and you have a more balanced Lord.

So those are my recommendations for the Lord's equip loadout. Helm of Eyes + either Axe of Khorne + talisman of protection or Flame Blade for a slasher lord. Worth noting is that taking the Flame Blade leaves the axe free for your heroes. Alternatively, the Father of Blades/Armor of Damnation combo is an attractive one.

As far as Gifts go, I'm not fond of any of them. Non give you a hand when you are in the line swinging at the foe, which is where your Lord will be most of the time. Leave em for the DPs.

In terms of Marks, I'd say either Tzeentch or Slaanesh. Khorne takes control of your general, might as well have the jugger if you went for that one, Nurgle only affects enemies who have ws 4, which means they aren't characters, which means they won't hurt your Lord or ws 9, which means they are Skulltaker, and your head is coming off.

The breakdown is Slaanesh if you are in a unit, so you can charge when/where you want, but still flee if necessary, and Tzeentch if you are on a Manticore/Dragon, and laying the smack down.

Sorcerer Lord:

The Sorcerer Lord is almost as fierce as the Lord, in their own, way. They will, however, all look very similar.

First off, SL's either go on Disks or in units, no real middle ground. Putting them on anything else is confusing their role. As leader of a blaster list, they hang with the guy holding the Skull, and rain Tzeentchy doom on their foes.

Why Tzeentch? +1 to cast and the level 1 and 6 spells in their Lore. Nurgle is also prety good, Slaanesh is not effective vs. Daemons plus vampires.

Basically all the Arcane items are good (except warrior familiar, wtf?). The other Sorcs need to grab the items that help the pool, the SL needs to grab the items that help him.

Each round his desired pattern is to throw 5 dice (+2 for skull from a minion and his mark) at the Gate and suck down an enemy scroll. If he miscasts his bud helps out with the puppet so he doesn't explode or end the magic phase. With that out of the way he can throw the flickering fire and/or the banshee spell or the treason. You don't want him using the ld hex, as its remains in play, and the one that makes an exalted hero usually isn't so helpful.

EDIT: Not really any grand gifts for a Sorcerer Lord either. Bleagh.

Lastly, note that the fact that he can have armor/shields shouldn't be construed for it being a good idea to take them. If he gets into combat he'll get mulched, however you've kitted him. You bought him to cast, so have him and his 3 buddies get to it. Rain fire on the enemy!

Daemon Prince:

Ugh. THIS is the end result of the process the Lords strive for? Weak.

They've got the same profile as the Lord before his "exaltation"...but they've thrown aside their gear and mounts for...US 3, flight, terror, 5+ ward save and stubborn.

Oh, and one less leadership. Awesome. As though this wasn't bad enough. And they cost more than the Chaos Lords? GW, is this a typo?

They get more points to put in the gifts, and their are a couple they can use to have shooting attacks or whatever, but nothing makes up for the lack of magic weapons in combat.

They can get to be level 4 mages, but then they are up in super-Lord territory for points, and they aren't as good as any of them. They don't cast as well as the Sorcerer Lord, or fight as well as the Exalted hero w/gear, and they cost more than either of them. They are mini-Galrauch's. Bleagh.

Heroes next time:

Heroes:

Throgg:

Throgg is a very interesting character, because he has to be considered in terms not only of his own profile, but also of the effects he has on the force org composition.

First off, let's consider him in his own right, as a character in an army not particularly devoted to getting the most bang out of him.

Well, he's got a good statline. He's 2 points of WS lower than the Exalted Hero and his init is rubbish, but he has a higher strength and 2 more wounds. He's also move 6, a fear causer and regenerates. All good stuff.

He's also got the d6 wound vomit (which is fantastic, gives him an average of 2 or 3 kills vs. t4 of any armor value, impressive for a hero), and once a game it can be made into a breathe weapon of troll vomit. This breathe weapon, by the by, is one of the more impressive I've ever seen.


EDIT: He does NOT suffer from stupidity, thanks!

So, taken as a character we get a hero who is roughly as fighty as a comparable exalted hero, but has more durability and less movement. However, he needs to hang vaguely close to the general until he gets stuck in. I give him the nod basically on behalf of his not needing any of your magic weapons. On my last hero I run rather dry.

If you include other troll/ogre/monster units, however, his value rises sharply. First off, stupidity on an 8 is perfectly acceptable for frontliners, you want them wandering forward anyway. If you deploy Throgg and some trolls somewhere you basically want them to move forward to engage the enemy, and one way or anther they will. Space them out so that none will wander into each other during the compulsory move phase, and don't march anyone out of his bubble if he goes stupid himself, and you've got a 2 general army.

The warriors (team killy) have a general and BSB and can sweep around the flank. The trolls (team tarpit) have a general and BSB in Throgg and just move towards the enemy. Terrain permitting, you can actually do a two-army pincer maneuver on your foe. Having one relatively inexpensive hero who can function as BSB and General for a subsection of your army is excellent.

Trolls as Core is less valuable. WoC isn't starved for good Core, but if you want them anyway you might as well make them core so you won't run out of slots for chariots/knights.

Fair warning, I may be biased in Throgg's favor, as I play an entirely Throgg themed army.

Nonetheless, I recommend Throgg as a 4th hero if you don't want a scroll caddy in your generalist list. He's too slow for a blitz list, and doesn't fit in a blaster list, but he can do just fine in a generalist list, particularly one that throws him a few monster buddies.

Festus:

Guh, so close. He seems so awesome. He's a wizard who buffs a unit. Gold! Then you start to pay close attention, and he falls off a bit.

Festus is a very interesting character, with lots of spurious stuff thrown in to obscure the true nature of his selction.

First off, he's a level 2 mage, which blasters need from a hero slot. He gets Curse of the Leper, which is a pretty bad spell, but the other can be traded for the excellent first level Nurgle spell.

He can't carry any of the magic gear that is in the WoC list, though, and he can't even have a dispel scroll or the like. That's a big hit against him,as the WoC magic toys are invaluable, and you need pretty much all of your guys allotment to get them.

In exchange for that lack, however, he soups up one of your units, big time. Regen (even bad regen) and poison attacks on a WoC unit is amazing. The fact that he an bail from the unit and augment another if it gets too chewed up is also useful.

This is primarily shooting protection, however, as he's goint to get chopped as soon as the enemy gets to melee combat. There's no way to keep the enemy from chopping the only guy in all the WoC who didn't bring his chaos armor, even with regen. In particular the fact that EotG requires that Festus issue a challenge every round makes keeping him safe impossible. The hope is that their hero can't kill a regenerating wizard in the one round it takes unit to poison and regen their way to a victory. Obviously the odds of that depends on the hero.

His nerf of the pursuit move is somewhat meh-worthy. If you breaking someone you can usually do so again by charging them after they rally, or you'll have someone behind them. Similarly the double VPs' for catching someone is unlikely to be achieved anytime.

In my final analysis I say he's got a place in a blaster unit, augmenting either the bunker unit or the primary goalie unit. He's got the Nurgle "here, have a wound" spell, so he'll pull 2 dispel dice a turn. That, combined with his protection, is enough.

Wulfrik:

Now, it's a cliche of tactica, but I'm going to fall back on it. This guy's usefulness is situational.

Against a gunline having a Marauder unit with a character in it (albeit a lackluster one) show up behind the enemy is dynamite. Against a general list it's still good, he can come up right behind the warmachine hill. Against a blitz list its useless.

As a character, Wulfrik leaves much to be desired. He comes with a lackluster unit, so they need him in their and swinging to get any CR vs. serious foes, but he's armed with hw, shield and chaos armor. He's just not going to do too much.

Against his chosen prey he's fiercer, but he sort of falls into the uncanny valley, of not hitting hard/fast enough to overwhelm a fighting Lord, and already having the fighting ability to take a wiz to town. Also, choosing a prey is sort of tipping your hand as to where you want him to go. I'd use it as a decoy.

Basically, he and his unit are war machine/archer killers. They have a 2/3 chance of coming in by your second turn. That's good sometimes, bad others. Exalted Champions and Sorcerers are good all the time. I think a take-all-comers list can't afford Wulfrik. If only he came with a unit of Marauder horsemen...

Exalted Champion:

Much like the Chaos Lord, the Exalted champ is amazing.

I'm not going to repeat the discussion of equipment that I did for the Lord, though I should note that the champ's gear is cheaper. His marks are also similar, though Khorne is more attractive as him rushing about doesn't hurt so bad.

For Mounts, the Champ can't ride a dragon or manticore, but as he's not responsible for providing leadership I can see him on some of the odder ones.

He can warmachine/skirmisher hunt on a disk or Steed of Slaanesh, and he can even be in a unit of Marauder Cav if he uses the steed.

He can use the Jug w/out worrying so much about its frenzy, as him zipping out from behind the lines to spear into some enemies isn't so bad.

He's also a mean guy to put on a chariot. Lurking behind the lines to pop in on a corner and break the scrum in your favor is a time honored hero technique.

With his lower magical item limit he's basically only going to have a weapon. Axe of Khorne, Chaos Runeblade, Glaive, Whip, all the usual suspects. He can take the Armor of Zh-whatever to be immune to KB/Poison, since he isn't the general anyway.

None of the trinkets or talismans really justify not taking a weapon. You want Exalted Champs in the line stomping, not doing random other stuff. Mount up, grab your enchanted hitty thing and get in there.

It's worth noting that Chaos doesn't really have any fantastic banners for the BSB. Nothing that justfies the lack of a magic weapon. I think its worthwhile to spend the base BSB cost to make one of them carry the army standard, but he should just have a magic weapon like the rest.

Sorcerer:

The Sorcerers are here to support the casting Lord's magic phase, or they are here as a token scroll caddy.

The only mounts I'd really consider for these guys are the Disks of Tzeentch. Flying wizards are good. Worth the cost? I'm not so sure.

The scroll caddy is the same in every army since the dawn of time, and he doesn't change in this one. Scroll him up.

The blaster sorcerers have a much more interesting loadout. They are each responsible for bringing their own dice, plus a piece or so of wargear to help the phase. They usually get the MoT.

The Infernal Puppet is the must-have from WoC, more to protect your own mages from miscast than to mess others up. Your primary goals are to avoid killing your own mage and/or ending the magic phase (though sometimes turning one into an Irrestistable Force is worth the loss of the spell) Even a one point manipulation would be fine for that, d3 is for blowing up enemy mages. All this from one cheap item.

Power Familiar is good, as the dice in the pool can be used by the Lord. Skull of Katan is amazing, put that in your mage bunker unit and everyone's casting at +2. Blood of Tzeentch is more for the Lord's use, but if he's busy being Vilitch or something you can pass it around. Rod of Torment is alright, if you've run out of other stuff, same category as the Blasted Standard, more bound items they won't have the dispel dice to block.

Next up: Core

Core:

The WoC Core section doesn't contain any units that I'd never field, but it does have several units that sort of compete for the same slot. It's a nice change to be able to get value from Core, rather than them being the tax you pay to play an army made of specials and characters.

Chaos Warhounds:

For starters, I examined the only core choice that doesn't actually count as one. The Chaos Warhounds compare favorably to units that fulfill their function in most armies.

Their role in life is obvious, cheap charge redirectors, march blockers, frenzy baiters and flankers. A unit of 5 of them is the cheapest unit you can buy in the book, and pulls a frenzy charge just as well as anything more expensive, with the possible exception of marauder horsemen.

They've got adequate movement for their purposes, and they have Will of Chaos to obviate the lack of MoS. They can't fight very well, and their leadership is bad, but since you want them to flee when charged it's not such a huge deal.

They are fine for their job, fully satisfactory. It should go without saying that both of their upgrades, which relate to combat, should be avoided. Their selling point is their price. They'll never win combat, so spending points trying is counter-productive.

Marauders:

I notice a lot of lists that don't have any blocks of marauders, which seem strange to me. These guys are all right.

First off, they are the cheapest way to get a core slot out of the way. Grab 10 and that's one slot down. If you are playing a special/rare list you may want to pursue this option, as a min-sized Marauder unit can still perform most of the functions of a full block.

Next, they are actually quite useful, despite their cheap price tag. I like to think of them as slightly more expensive skaven slaves. They've still got full static res, minus the banner you probably don't want to buy them. No Cav unit will want to take a flank charge from them, so they can be used for flanking purposes.

They also take wounds as well as anything else. Put them in a line in front and they'll block enemy LOS. Let them take the chariot's charge and break, so your actual fighters can deal with it on your turn. If the enemy is dead set on magic missiling you, you can advance on their wizards with marauder units to force them to target a bit closer to home.

They can take Marks, obviously, and the compelling mark for them is MoS. The only way a redirector/flanker can fail to do their job, the only roles they have to make, are fear/terror/panic tests. A mark as cheap as MoS that obviates that need is a must buy.

Marauder Horsemen:

These guys are the all-stars of the role that Marauders and Warhounds compete for.

They are fast cav, so they can go anywhere and set up at any angle. They aren't ITP, so they can flee. While they are slightly more expensive than the other core choices, it isn't immeasurable, and being perfectly maneuverable is a quantifiable advantage.

If you want to use them as, essentially, better warhounds, the MoS is once again the way to go. With it you know where they will be, all the time, and they don't become ITP, which would defeat their point. The base 5 man unit with MoS and a musician is classic, and will give satisfaction.

In addition, there's the oft mentioned option of giving them flails and the MoK. I'm somewhat iffy on this concept. The point of a Light cav unit is that you are controlling the enemy's movement. You harass, threaten their war machines, etc. If you put MoK on them, they lose that ability. You can't be a viable flanker if you go hurtling in before the main line gets their, and they certainly can't win a combat with a real enemy unit, despite MoK and flails. In addition, the MoK and flails together nearly double the unit's cost. I'm not a fan.

WoC has a fine heavy cav unit in the Knights, we don't need Marauder Cav to aspire to the same duty. Frenzy is like ITP, it removes much of the appeal for a fast cav unit, and gives the enemy an easy way to handle them. I think Marauder Horsemen should be used as the first class redirectors/flankers they are.

Chaos Warriors:

If you are playing a balanced Chaos List the Chaos Warriors will likely be the meat of your army, the location where most of your points get soaked up.

I'm of the opinion that they are the best infantry blocks in the game. The excellent save, the ability to take WoC characters in their and the high profile and comparatively low cost are their selling points, along with the excellent plastic figures.

A WoC unit is already expensive, if it is expanded to the size of a full block it is extremely so. I'm of the belief that no WoC block should be allowed to roam around without a character in the mix. A WoC character in a block of well equipped and marked WoC can take a charge from most anything in the game without flinching. The same block w/out a character, by contrast, can be ripped apart by an enemy Lord/Dragon combo, for whom the Chaos Warriors might as well be marauders.

When it comes to equipping the unit, it's important to remember that the character will be doing the lion's share of the damage. The role of the unit is to add static resolution, and not suffer damage in return. For this reason, I'm of the school of thought that hand weapon and shield is the way to go. You can increase the damage output of the unit with the other weapons, but HW and shield nearly doubles the unit's ability to withstand enemy damage, and their movement is low enough that I'm dubious as to how often they'll get the charge.

I'm not fond of any of the magical standards that the units can be equipped with. The blasted banner is worthwhile in a blaster list, just because the enemy will never be able to dispel it, but the rest aren't terribly helpful. The rapturous standard is needed if you lose combat, but you shouldn't. The banner of frenzy is just flat out bad, as your core units need to be under your control. The Nurgle banner causes wounds that don't count towards CR. None of these are terribly thrilling. I think the best banner to take for a block of Chaos Warriors is the good old War Banner, to ensure the enemy flees. Obvioiusly, MSU style units of Chaos Warriors shouldn't have a banner at all. To my way of thinking, however, MSU style units (ie, flankers and redirectors) should be Marauders.

When examing Marks, the choice is a simple process of elimination.

Khorne is right out. These are the blocks that'll be holding your characters. You can't have them flanked and destroyed, or led around by an eagle/what-have-you. Frenzy is for things you keep behind the line and bring forward to support you, not the line itself.

Nurgle and Tzeentch both do the same thing (protect your guys) but a little math is revealing. Nurgle makes some attacks 1/6 less likely to hit you. Tzeentch makes all attacks 1/6 less likely to wound you. Tzeentch has an identical impact to Nurgle on the attacks Nurgle works on (ranged attacks and ws 3 or ws 6 melee attacks) and is better on those it does not work on. Tzeentch is self evidently better than Nurgle. It also costs less than Nurgle. Hilarious.

Finally we've got the Mark of Slaanesh. This is cheaper than Tzeentch, and has all the uses we've previously described for it. Obviously, it can be game losing if a block of Chaos Warriors fails a terror test. On the other hand, with characters around/in the unit the leadership is likely to be quite high, and they do have a reroll for panic tests, and are unlikely to lose combat to fear causers.

I think Tzeentch and Slaanesh both have their benefits. I'd go with Slaanesh myself, but I can see the case for Tzeentch.

Next time: Special Units

Anyways: Special units:

Chaos Knights:

These guys are, no question, great. The question is, great at precisely what?

Well, obviously they hit like trucks. With ws 5 and str 5/6 (get to that in a moment) they are 3's and 2's vs. most of the game's infantry. Sending in a standard 6 man unit of Knights vs. an enemy infantry unit ought to result in a rout, as you kill enough to put you over their numbers, and then auto-break them due to fear.

On that subject, the fact that they cause fear is extremely handy. No one likes to see their wrecker unit fail a charge vs. skeletal bowman because they rolled boxcars. It's also good insurance vs. a Dragon landing nearby and breaking you.

Finally, they have great endurance. A 1+ save is a 1+ save, and ws 5/t4 ain't too shabby either. The enemy will need a character to put any wounds on these guys, or charging haevy cav of their own.

So, great attack power, great defense power, decent mobility, they're still Chaos Knights. They've been legendary for this stuff for like 3 editions. What's more specific?

Well, first question is what mark to give them. My personal theory is that the answer to this one is Tzeentch. The fact that they cause fear mitigates much of MoS's benefit, and MoN is self evidently worse than MoT.

Khorne is the only strong contender, as the extra attacks would be the high quality Chaos Knight attacks, but I think their movement rate and value are too high to take the chance of frenzy. MoT it is. It's also worth noticing that MoK would render them unable to flee, and there are times when you want to flee with even Chaos Knights.

The next question that comes up is whether to pay for the lances or to keep the ensorceled weaponry. My theory on this one is that you should keep the ensorceled weaponry. It keeps you from being scrubbed by ethereals, still wounds weak infantry on 2's and maintains its value every round. Further, it's cheap.

Now, as with cavalry everywhere, the main weakness of the Knights is their flank. If the enemy gets a unit in there they can crush the Knights. One or zero knights striking back simply won't do enough, you'll be lucky if it does one to equalize the flank advantage. Protecting your flanks is key with Chaos Knights.

So, the final question for the knights, do we want a character in there? I think this depends on your army type. In a blitz list, yes. These are, in fact, the primary character delivery systems in that kind of list. In a balanced list, maybe. The term Balanced list can encompass a lot of stuff. Primarily, you want to have a strong response to anything the enemy can throw out. Having a Knight unit with a Char in there for challenge duty is a strong component thereof. Blaster lists can obviously benefit from Knight units to protect the bunker, but clearly won't be putting a char in there.

So my final recommendations for Chaos Knights: 6 strong, or 5 + char. Only a Standard Bearer + musician for command, ensorceled weapons instead of lances, and the Mark of Tzeentch.

Chosen:

If they're so chosen, why aren't they as good as the ordinary warriors?

Ok, so the chosen are Chaos Warriors, slightly more expensive, but with one higher weapon skill and a roll on the table. They've also got the strong selling point that you can use them in smaller units.

First off, the point of weapon skill is nigh-worthless. You will rarely fight enemy's with a weapon skill of 5/6 who aren't in a challenge with one of your chars. There just aren't that many enemy infantry that elite.

There are basically two ways to use Chosen. The first is as MSU units, at which they are cheaper than CW because they can be deployed in smaller units.

MSU chosen want to turn the flank of the enemy line after it stalls on your line. Hence, they expect to sit a distance behind and to the flank of the battle line, or face down light cav and the like. Their are few enough of them that you can buy both shields and halberds without feeling guilty, though I think command is pushing it, considering how expensive the Chosen command options are. I think no mark, or MoS is the way to go for them.

The other way to use them is as a Block, replacing a block of Chaos Warriors. This is an interesting gamble, dependent on the EOTG table turning your way.

It's perfectly possible to roll MR 3, or ld increase, or cause fear (on a unit with MoS) or something else that's not terribly cost efficient. It's also possible to roll +1 toughness, or, god help your enemy, 4+ ward save and stubborn. Your odds rise sharply if you take a champ with the 5 point table reroll.

This gimmick increases in utility if you take a Warshrine or so and have them tag along with your chosen unit.

In general, chosen blocks should be treated just like Chaos Warrior blocks. They need a char in there to protect from dragons/thirsters, they need hand weapon/shield, they need the Mark of Slaanesh, or Tzeentch if you are feeling brave or have a way to make them cause fear.

I'm not terribly fond of the Chosen block theory, but if you want to run a Deathstar build its the way to go, and even left at just a block for your lord it isn't actually that man points more than a warrior block.

Forsaken:

Yikes, demi-spawn!

Ok, let's consider the Forsaken's difference from Chaos Warriors.

First off they replace 2 attacks with d3. Interesting, but not a real difference. The times when its 1 will be balanced out by the times when its 3. Nothing to see here. We don't really count on rank and file attacks to do anything anyway.

Next off, they've lost their hw and shields, and their armor has degraded to heavy armor. This is a serious drawback. They'll give up twice as many casualties as Chaos Warriors.

Next up, they've got the mark of Khorne, and its mandatory. Bleagh. So much for having blocks of forsaken. Further, they can't even carry flails/halberds/great weapons to make the extra attacks count.

Lastly, their only good feature. They've got move 6. I think that makes them the fastest non-monstrous infantry in the game. It's pretty impressive.

Unfortunately, it isn't enough to redeem them. They are slower than warhounds, and have frenzy, so they are bad at the whole run-in-front-and-redirect game. They've got no way to make up for their lack of static res, so they can't take a charge. They can flank, but so can Knights or Chosen, or monsters, and all those are better.

The only reason I can see taking these guys is to have fun with the conversion (I'd use the possessed from 40k mixed with the warrior plastics), and maybe for a theme army that shows every step between Daemon Prince and Spawn. They are simply demonstrably worse than equivalent choices.

Chariot:

I'm a big fan of Chaos Chariots. They've got defined rolls at which they excel.

First off, the chaos chariot has one of the better statlines that such things get. It's got 2 Chaos Warriors with halberds for the crew, 2 chaos warsteeds for the mounts, and is s5 t5 with scythes. As chariots go, its only real equals are the popemobile, the black coach and the white lion chariot, all first class vehicles.

The role of Chaos Chariots w/out characters is to wait until the lines meet, then charge in on a corner and break the enemy. Another role they have is dragon patrol. The Chaos backfield should be littered with one model units to catch enemy dragons/manticores/hippogriffs/flying rank breakers and terror causers, and one of the components of that minefield is the chariot.

Enemy characters on flying mounts rarely have s7, so they can rarely bust a chariot before it swings, even with ASF. Consequently, if it focuses on the mount, the chairot has a decent shot at holding the enemy in place for a round, with the t5 and 4 wounds keeping it alive while the impact hits make up for the difference between wounds inflicted. It's fairly threatening, and ought to keep the enemy out of your backfield.

I actually like the Mark of Khorne on chariots, so long as they stay in the backfield, as it simultaneously makes them able to charge terror causers and adds to their attack ability. It does mean that enemy flying skirmishers can pull them around, but that's among the least damaging things flying skirmishers can do to you, and I'd be relieved if all they accomplished was to pull my chariots into woods or whatever, instead of mucking up my battle line, or march blocking me all game.

I think most every generalist army can benefit from a chariot or two. By contrast, they are too slow for a biltz list, though they work great as counterchargers in a blaster list.

Trolls:

Trolls are much better in a Warriors of Chaos list than they are in Beasts or Orks and Goblins.

This is primarily because the WoC have a Ld 9 general as a matter of course, and special characters can bring this up to 10. As a consequence the Trolls rarely go stupid, and usually remain under control.

Further, the Trolls can benefit from Throgg's leadership/reroll for break tests, and can be core when he's in the army. I personally think the Marauder Horsemen and Chaos Warriors will get your core out of the way, but if you really want to monster mash you can get all the trolls you want without taking up your special.

Lastly the WoC trolls have mutant regeneration, which will occur once or twice before the unit is destroyed, if the enemy doesn't have flaming weapons. The Will of Chaos is also useful for preventing panic, as they don't have O&G's immunity to panic from their little brethren.

As with all monster units, I recommend deploying them in 4's. That's the most you can fight an ordinary unit with, and has the wounds to sustain a little fire and still hit halfway effectively. Further, they have an outside shot at outnumbering their foe after a good charge, and they can soak up an appaling number of wounds with good regen rolls.

I'm of the mind that Trolls are the best of the monsters that the WoC have access to, so long as your desired role for them is to be the front of the battle line, and your general is at least ld 9.

The things that trolls fear are obvious, their primary vulnerability is their leadership. They fear units with static res that they can't wound, who will break and run them down, no matter how well you roll regen saves. They also fear flaming attacks and multi-wound weapons, but those are rare enough that they'll probably be gunning for your characters.

It's worth noting that you want Troll units in the front. Having a stupidity roll fail and the unit bumble into another, more important, unit is a colossal problem, particularly if this produces a traffic jam. Worst case you can lose the whole turn.

By contrast, if the front unit moves only 3 inches, you can still move the rest of your units around it all right, reacting to enemy flankers and the like.

Ogres:

It's hard to justify taking Ogres instead of trolls. Nonetheless, let's look at what they've got.

First off, Ogres can take different weapon options. Great Weapons give them better offense than Trolls. They aren't much slower either, goes last vs. init one is a pretty moot point.

They can take a standard, a champ and a musician if they want. The champ is pretty useful in terms of splitting up the wound pool, and can keep the unit alive to check morale if Konrad or another multi-wound guy rushes in. (This can be important, in that they need a morale check not to pursue, but they automatically get to choose whether or not to overrun).

You can upgrade their armor save, but raising 5+ to 4+ is probably not worth it. The biggest threat to Ogres is failing their offense rolls and breaking to static res, not failing to do damage. Besides, who has the models for Ogres with Chaos Armor?

As far as marks go, Tzeentch is probably the way to go once again, poor man's regeneration. Khorne can get you some serious offense, I use Khornate Ogres on occasion. Slaanesh is mostly uncessary, as they already cause fear.

The biggest edge Ogres have over Trolls is their ability to be used as flankers without needing the general to go along. They've got the mobility and hitting power to flank broadly, and the wounds to survive light cav and artillery harassment as they do so. Chaos Knights can probably do this better, but it's something that Ogres can do.

Also, the fluff makes it totally clear that these are the same Ogres as the OK armies are made of, so let's all just use those models. The Chaos Ogre models are execreble. Ironguts with spawn bits will do just fine, and don't look so hideous.

Dragon Ogres:

Dragon Ogres have quite a bit to recommend them, but their price is just too high.

Their biggest advantages are the extra wound each and their ability to move 7, with its implicit pursuit and flight options.

Immunity to lightning rarely comes up, but is nice if you are up against skaven or lizard men.

Aside from that Dragon Ogres are basically just more expensive Ogres with ws 4 and s5. They are better, but to my mind not better enough to justify their increased price tag. You can spend even more points to give them extra hand weapons or great weapons, but I'm of the opinion that getting 2 Ogres with Great Weapons is better than one Dragon Ogre with a GW.


Next time: Rare

Rares:


Spawn:

All of the best stories deserve a second telling.

The spawn haven't changed that much, and don't really need to. They remain an extremely valuable unit, and still have a defined role which they fill with a minimum of fuss.

First off, the spawn's primary feature is its ability to charge anything that it can reach. The ability to ramble through the woods and into combat with things on the other side, or hop over and fight a unit of peg knights that flew behind the line, is key. It's pretty much the only thing in the WoC unit that can simulate being a skirmisher.

Next, it's unbreakable and t5. Everybody's had a big hammer unit get a Spawn stuck on its side and had to send their hero over to fix the matter. The classic use of spawn is as probably the game's best tarpit.

Now, the spawn have lost their 3d6 move this time around, which is a big blow to everyone who painted them slaaneshi, and that's a pretty serious weakening. An average of 10 is much better than an average of 7, and a threat range of 18 is much more serious than one of 12.

On the other hand the MoT gives them all a ward save (obviously MoT is what you want on spawn, nothing else makes them more resilient, which is the only thing about them that matters aside from moving), which they'll pass before dying roughly a third of the time.

It's nice that they let you have two for one rare slot. I think the use of a rare slot for a pair of Tzeentchy spawn is an attractive option for most any balanced list. Blaster lists will want either a goalie or more shooty, while the spawn are simply too slow for a blitz list.

Scylla:

Initially I was down on Scylla, figuring that two ordinary spawn would do the job better. A couple of games have made a believer of me, however, so let me try and sell him to y'all.

First off, Scylla's ws and wounds are one higher. On a creature that is all about durability that's a very big deal. He's roughly half again as durable as an ordinary spawn to ws 4 hits.

Next up, adding one to his attacks and one to his strength tips scylla from incidental damage to serious threat vs. ordinary infantry or mages. He's throwing out, on average, 5 or 6 ws 3 s5 attacks to a mage or some infantry. He'll kill a mage or a pair of infantry each round, so long as their armor is low.

Also, he's got MR 3, and a lot of enemy spells target everyone, so you can use his MR to block them. Keep him facing the Casket of Souls, etc. It's important to read the FAQ on this.

In addition Scylla is as fast as the old school spawn, so he can keep up with a blitz list or race ahead on the flanks. That's pretty handy. I've seen him zoom up and lock up a unit of Brettonian knights before they could charge.

Finally, Scylla can challenge. This is frequently key. Rambling up and throwing up a challenge is more useful than I initially thought. Enemy dragon riders who get simo-charged by Scylla and another spawn aren't going anywhere on their turn.

I think Scylla is just as good as a pair of spawn for a balanced list. I still wouldn't use him in a blitz list, as he's not dependably fast enough, but he might have a role as a goalie in a blaster list.

Warshrine:

Huh, a brand new unit. Well, I can skip the consideration as to whether its gotten better or worse.

First off, the Warshrine has a decent statline and can lend a little weight to a charge. Also it's pretty hard for the enemy to put wounds on it.

In terms of marks, only the MoT makes any sense. MoK would only add one attack, while the MoN is just MoT light. MoS doesn't make much sense for a unit whose charging ability is only secondary, that's already getting panic rerolls.

So, what's so great about the warshrine. I mean, this is a rare slot, a mediocre statline and a good ward save doesn't cut it.

Well, first off I've been a bit too flippant about the statline. Tough 6 doesn't come alogn all that often, and with a 3+ ward save to guard it and 4 wounds backing it up the Warshrine is unlikely to be killed. It has no real offense to speak of, but the defense is fairly impressive.

Then, there's the EOTG fu. Your assessment of the unit is obviously going to be dependent on what you think of this, and for me it's just light. I don't care that my champs get Eyes of the Gods, and rolling on the chart once a round may give me one good roll by game's end. > 100 points and a rare slot is just too much to spend for such little gain, in my book.

Giant:

He's big, he's dumb, he's stubborn, he's the giant! Let's give him a warm welcome back everybody.

First, and most importantly, this isn't the wimpy slavegiant from the OK book, but the good old stubborn version. His main role as a big stubborn terror causing fire magnet is fully intact.

He's got basically the same table he always had, still basically just hoping to roll jump up and down on enemy elite troops, and dreading rolling pick up and...

Key to the Warriors of Chaos giant, however, is his ability to take Marks of Chaos. MoN is its familiar self, as is MoT, but MoK gives s7 hits and MoS gives you ASF! Obviously, MoS or MoN/MoT are the way to go. The two ways to beat a giant are typically to shoot him down and to charge him with a hard hitting unit. Of these, charging is the more common and certain of the two, and ASF forces them to consider the possibility of you jumping up and down or shout and bawl before they get to swing. I think that makes MoS better than MoN/MoT, but that depends a lot on what the methods of giant removal are in your area.

So, a Marked Giant, how's that stack up as a rare slot. The easy answer is, quite well.

First and foremost giants are fire magnets and terror causers. Having him stride out in front of your army and face in such a way that the enemy has to charge or get flanked if they charge by will almost certainly result in the enemy attempting to handle the giant. Since his role is to keep your 15 point infantry from getting smashed, that's good.

Unlike the Shaggoth, the giant is ld10 and stubborn, so he can't get charged and straight up lose by static res. The giant is perfectly comfortable engaging units on his own, biding his time and hiding behind his toughness/wounds while he waits to jump up and down.

I say that both blitz lists (if they've got a little patience) and balanced lists can benefit from a giant, and a blaster list positively loses the big guy. Giants are quality.

Hellcannon:

Hmph, a bit different from the Storm of Chaos version, but the essentials are still there.

First off, it's a first class stone thrower. The shot is a combination of the best parts of a Catapult of Skulls and a Bretonian Trebuchet. It's extremely expensive for this function, but there's no denying that it's relationship to a normal stone thrower is like that of a Chaos Warrior to an Empire Swordsmen.

Next, there's the misfire table to consider. By and large, these are not bad reactions to get. Having it explode is bad, but miscasts all around (in an army with infernal puppet), free movement during your shooting phase, killing your crew, these are not awful. I consider its misfire table (much like Kholek's) to be a point in its favor.

Lastly there's the matter of its fighting capabilities. The first thing to note is that it is Unbreakable. That's, obviously, a really big deal. Scylla would die to be such a great tarpit. It's almost steam tank levels of stuck. Anything charged into by the Hellcannon is going nowhere.

It also hits decently hard, about as hard as a Warshrine or other mediocre choice. But where that's insufficient on units that care about CR, the cannon can afford to play the waiting game. It's not going anywhere.

So there's the Hellcannon. Great cannon, great tarpit, great value for the points. I think a balanced list can have a Hellcannon, while it flat out fails in a blitz list, and I think the miscast issue is too much for a blaster list.

Shaggoth:

Hmm, the Shaggoth, I gotta say I'm generally unimpressed.

The Shaggoth's biggest issue is the giant. He suffers, hard, by comparison.

First and foremost, the Shaggoth isn't stubborn. That means he can't engage units on his own unless he hits the flank. He, in general, outputs roughly 3 wounds. Now, due to his armor and weapon skill, he is going to take less wounds that the giant, but he's still not going to win combat vs. enemy's in the front.

That'd be less of a problem if he wasn't a Large Target, but unless you have a dragon flying around the enemy won't leave him time to run around and set up flanks. He's going to eat bolt thrower fire and cannon rounds till he drops. He needs to be right in the thick of things.

One great thing in his favor is the speed with which he will get into said thick. He's quite fast for a nonflyer, and the fact that he's got monster wheel means he can generally be where he wants to be, facing whichever way he wants. Mv 6 to Mv 7 is probably the most signficant one point move increase in the game, as it lets you go 3d6 on the overruns.

Another problem he has vs. the Giant is his ITP. The Giant can (I believe) flee, while the Shaggoth cannot. ITP is no substitute for stubborn ten.

Ultimately, I think the Giant is just too good. I feel for the Shaggoth, but I don't think there's any reason to take him over a giant. Maybe in a blitz list where you wanted every bit of speed to keep up with the knights, or maybe in a theme list where you were bringing dragon ogres as specials, Shaggoth's as rares and Kholek as Lord.

Interesting...I've been collecting WoC for a few months now with the idea of eventually getting into WHFB..have yet to play my first game though.

This should be an article - there is a lack of WHFB WoC tactica articles.

Thanks for taking the time to do the write up.

This is a good write up, thanks for taking the time! I am curious, you put the army into 3 variants: Blitz, Blast and General. I am sold on Nurgle, but I think I want a great magic phase followed by mobility. Can you do a quick write up on what you think constitutes each of those types?

A great write-up I must say, altough I disagree a bit on a couple of points (and I think you may have missed a thing or two).

Firstly I disagree about the usability of manticore. The main issue I have with it, is it's low durability. T5 with 4 wounds is a bit unnerving especially if your manticore+lord is supposed to be the main blitzer so to speak. I mean sure, you have to be careful if you're facing war machines but it's just a bit too much when you have to worry a lot even from normal missile fire and basic magic missiles. It would work a lot better as a support unit of sorts if there was an option to mount an exalted champ on it, but currently I just think a dragon is a flat out better choice (if you want to wield a lord riding a monster-thingy).

Expensive + hitty = Dragon Lord
Cheap(er) + hitty = Jugger/Barded Steed Lord


Which brings me to the item setups: First, a "good" point on giving the main man a juggernaut -> daemonsword + enchanted shield combo as it's probably the only way you don't end up killing yourself to the sword. That's bit of a jokey setup, though, as the great statline doesn't really need that big of a combat boost (and the attacks are capped at 10 too, boo hiss!). Secondly I'm strongly against using the helm of many eyes on a lord. The stupidity is a risk I'd rather avoid especially as the kitted lord is expensive and you really don't want him standing around staring to nothingess when he's supposed to charge. Remember that ld9 is still 1 failed test per game statistically. The good stats and armour should enable you to weather most beating and still leave you standing to hit back. I can see the point in protecting r'n'f with the asf but if one really wants to do that, I'd rather use an exalted with helm instead (if one want's to use the item regardless).

Regarding characters further, I'd like to note that the chaos sorcerers aren't really pushovers. Chaos warrior stats with an extra attack or two aren't shabby and you have good armor in addition. Sure, they don't exactly stand up to bloodthirsters but a disc riding sorcerer lord can step up for some warmachine hunting if he has just a plain sword of might for example. This is also why I think that giving sorcerers barded steeds isn't too bad an idea, as it gives them mobility _and_ an extra armor save so they can take even some damage if the mage-bunker unit gets into combat.

About the core choices, I'd like to emphasize the fact that using ranked marauders as main combat units isn't necessarily a bad idea. I mean you get 25 "ItP" swordsmen with full command at 180 pts. That's certainly not too bad a deal if you have the necessary support around such as bsb and the actually killy stuff. I also think that this kind of unit makes the ideal mage bunker. About the good ol' chaos warriors, I'm still not too thrilled, as they still have the elite-infantry-crippling not-stubborn and not-unbreakable special rules. I certainly wouldn't use big units of these but I'm sure msu warriors have some merits (main point being that they are sort of slow knights with double the wounds).

Lastly as you probably noticed when I talked about helm of many eyes, I'm not a big fan of stupidity, hence I also don't like trolls too much. (It also bugs me that you have to use a relatively static lord to make best use of them). I might actually use them once in awhile except that the models are pretty awful (here's hoping for a non-morrison sculpt in the 2nd/3rd/Xth chaos release wave).

I skimmed a bit over the special character section as in my neck of woods one rarely uses those. I realise that the WoC ones aren't awful powergaming wise but the DoC/Teclis/Thorek have left lasting scars on people here.

I hope you'll end up making a dakka-article out of this (a bit of chat/review-list of the magic items & lores would be icing on the cake).

@Dtoast: You are welcome. I'm thinking it'll eventually be made into an article, but I wanted to get the community's feedback first, so I can correct any mistakes.

@Dez:

I divide the armies by KO pattern. Thus a balanced list moves up and engages the enemy in whatever configuration suggests, a blitz list moves up and charges them off the field, while a blaster list just hammers them with spells.

My versions look something like:

Balanced:

Lord w/Helm, Flameblade, with barded steed and shield MoT
Hero w/chariot, Axe of Khorne, mark of Khorne
BSB w/Chaos Runesword, barded steed MoT
Sorcerer w/2 scrolls (or puppet), barded steed MoT
5 Marauder Horsemen MoS
5 Marauder Horsemen MoS
10 Marauders MoS
10 Marauders MoS
10 Marauders MoS
Block of Chaos Warriors MoS
6 Chaos Knights MoT
Chariot MoK
Chariot MoK
Giant MoS
Hellcannon

Blitz:
Kholek
Hero on barded steed w/axe of khorne MoT
BSB on barded steed w/Chaos Runesword MoT
Hero on barded steed w/Helm of Many Eyes, Glaive of Putrefecation (or whip of mind control) MoT
5 Marauder Horsemen w/MoS
6 Marauder Horsemen w/flails, MoK
6 Marauder Horsemen w/Flails, MoK
5 Chaos Knights w/MoT
5 Chaos Knights w/MoT
5 Chaos Knights w/MoT
Giant MoS
Giant MoS

Blaster:

Sorcerer Lord + 3 Sorcerers w/MoT, all trappings
10 Marauders w/MoS
10 Marauders w/MoS
Block of Chaos Warriors w/MoS
Chariot w/MoK
Chariot w/MoK
Chariot w/MoK
6 Chaos Knights w/MoT
Giant
Giant

@ChaosLord:

Manticore: It's low durability is a bit of a problem, but remember that some of the shots will hit the Lord. If deployed behind a hill it just has to fly up and take one round of fire, then you pounce on the enemy Lord and kill him. T5 is also not atrocious. Sure, you'll probably fall prey to gobbo bolt throwers, but HE and DE might only have 2, which isn't enough to guarantee the killshot. If you are worried you can put the Father of Blades on the Lord, which will reflect some shots.

I just don't like the Chaos dragon for the much higher cost. The extra durability you are buying comes at quite a price, and in terms of combat the lack of KB from the mount is a big weakening.

Items:

Daemonsword: I'm not a fan of the daemonsword. If I want an expensive weapon I go flame blade. Like you say, it's just not ideal. Leave hitting ourselves to Archaon and his 3+ ward save.

Helm of Many Eyes: I consider this to be an important item for your lord, because there are people in the game that can charge in and dependably kill your guy before he swings. Vampire Lord on zombie dragon, Skulltaker, Enemy Chaos Lord w/Flame Blade, Tyrant w/Tenderizer, and the ordinary defense of the Lord (challenge from unit champ, then have higher init next round) isn't available to WoC, due to EOTG.

I grant you, stupidity is annoying, but the 1/6 fails a game conceals how many tests you actually take. Presumably, in any given game, there's one round where it would be bad to be stupid. You usually move, move, fight fight, turn, fight, or move, move, die. Only the move before anything important happens is a bad roudn to be stupid. Overruns + combats are where you get your work done, and that's no big deal to be stupid in. In a typical game I'd say there's one or two rounds where failing stupidity would hurt, and frequently it isn't a game loser. Those are odds I'll take in exchange for being able to murder enemy Lords who charge me.

My big problem with the marauders comes from EOTG. Normally, you can charge the enemy unit with your unit, and position as follows:

Char opposite their char, champ opposite their champ. If nobody challenges you just put your attacks on R&F, and prevail thusly. If they challenge your champ takes it.

In WoC, EOTG mandates that your char throws up a challenge. The enemy can obligingly accept it with their champ, and suffer overkill, but then your marauders don't do anything, and the enemy throwback causes carnage among them. Likely they can pull a draw, or a close enough thing that nobody runs. Chaos Warriors, on the other hand, don't give up CR easily, even to enemy chars, and they can actually do some damage.

Thus, I prefer my marauder units 10 strong threatening to flank or redirecting charges. I want warriors and/or Knights doing the actual holding of the line while my chars punch the enemy in the teef.

EDIT: Forgot to respond on Trolls.

I like the regen, honestly. It's saved me many times. Sure, stupidity can be bad, but with trolls it's not usually a big deal if they don't get a long range charge off, and stupidity will let you cheat a short range charge. Them charging you and you charging them are frequently identical with trolls. Regen cancels out most serious wounding attempts, and leaves you comparing static res.

For example, 4 trolls vs. 6 flesh hounds, which is a fairly common thing to get charged by.

Flesh Hounds charge, 12 attacks, 8 hits, 5-6 wounds, regen takes 2-3 off. 12 throwbacks, 6 hits, 4 wounds, ward save takes 1-2 off. Ultimate score is most likely 2 to 2 or 2 to 3. Mass can go either way. I think the biggest question is whether the hounds get a troll before he can swing or not, and that's basically a coin flip. If neither side breaks matters continue thereafter in the same vein. It's not an unattractive scenario, for getting charged by khornate heavy cav.

A note on the MoT vs MoN

say you get shot by 12 high elf bowmen at short range
normally they hit 8 times
assume all wound and all fail saves MoT will save 1.333 guys
Vs MoN they will hit 6 times
MoN saved more than MoT
If they hit on 4s this becomes more extreme (MoT saves 1, MoN saves 2).
This is the case up until they hit on 1s in which case MoN does nothing.
In combat MoN is only usefull against units with 1 WS better than you and units that will be hitting on 5s instead of 4s with the change. There it is very usefull, in all other cases MoT is better.

So when picking your mark think about what will be killing you. Giants and marauders (horsemen or not) are usually better off with MoN. Knights are usually better off with MoT.

Also keep in mind that MoN doest affect cannon fire at all.
Just a thought.

I agree with chaosLord
The dragon is leaps and bounds better than the manticore.
As long as you are giving up your extra hero slot then by all means get the most out of it (unless the manticore doesn't take the slot then they are equal if you use it).

Yeah, the Manticore isn't an extra hero. Though, the last hero is kind of getting short changed in equip anyway, if he isn't a scroll caddy.

Yeah, the MoN vs. MoT thing isn't as cut and dried as I thought. I'm going to do the math behind it at some point and state it quantitatively.

One thing I've considered with a Disc sorc is giving him the scream (extra shooting attack) and the Rending Sword. Rending sword re-rolls failed to wounds...So it works with his spells and the roar...

There's one thing I think you've misunderstood regarding unit champs and EotG. If you have unit champ and a hero in unit, you can challenge with the champ as there's two guys who must challenge and it's the most reasonable solution that the owning player chooses who does it. (this was discussed a bit in the WoC faq even). About the warriors, sure, they a durable, but I just dunno if I'd pay 350ish pts for a fully ranked unit especially as the chaos characters seem to cost a bunch too. I could see myself using ranked warriors in a heavily defensive/infatry-line list but as I usually run with magic + mobility I'd rather have cheaper mage bunker and invest the points on knights.

I'm also not too crazy about the flamebade as it has issues getting through armor and t6 + it's quite expensive altough I have to say it's pretty damn good vs certain targets (hydra, varghulf and opposing giants come in to mind).

Any reason you aren't a big fan of the chaos rune sword?

That and the crown of everlasting conquest were my 2 'must haves', althouh the father of blades and armour of damnation combo is brilliant, and one I initially missed.

Damn chaos... I pushed O&G ahead of my HE's who had pushed back empire (who were replaced by lizardmen) and now I want to do chaos as well.
Somewhere in there I have to do BAs and daemons for 40k. :(

@Chaos Runesword: I'm not down on it, it's usually my choice for a second hero weapon. Lord gets flame blade, hero gets axe of khorne, other hero gets Chaos Runesword. The reason for the ranking, to my mind, is as follows:

Flame Blade beats the drakenhoff and enemy regen items, and with d3+2 will usually get a Lord in one wound and a dragon in 2. Thus, it's better, but it does cost more. It's my favorite weapon on a Lord.

Axe of Khorne vs. Chaos Runesword is more of a judgement call. I think the Chaos statline is already enough for scything through R&F, so I prefer the KB of the Runesword.

Glaive and Whip need the Helm (which I like to give to the Lord), so I prefer the Runesword to them. Father of Blades is undependable without the Armor, and doesn't help the character beat up rank and file, which he frequently ends up doing.

@challenges:

The Chaos chars have EOTG, which says that they must challenge. The champs don't. I can't see the FAQ right now, but does it seriously let you call a challenge with someone who doesn't have to and override someone who does? That's different from how I would have guessed it works.

@Sorcerer:

I guess I could see the scream, if he doesn't have the Tzeentchy casting gift (seem to recall there is one, not sure), but rending sword instead of a casting item? I don't like it. Disk is cool for all the usual reasons though, and chaos sorcerer can beat up a war machine crew.

Regarding the challenge issue, here's a quote from the WoC faq:
Q. Does the compulsion to challenge apply to
all models in the army or only to models with
the Eye of the Gods special rule?
A. It applies to all models capable of issuing
challenges. This means the Champions are
compelled to issue challenges, but may not roll
on the Eye of the Gods chart (unless the army
includes a War Shrine, of course!). They can,
however, refuse challenges, in a very cowardly
and un-Chaosy fashion!

So, this means you can choose if you want to challenge with the normal chump or your hero, which lessens the negative effects of EotG a bit.
Also, Hellfire Sword causes d3+1 wounds, not d3+2 (the rules of the sword say "causes not one but d3+1 wounds".

40kenthusiast wrote:
@Sorcerer:

I guess I could see the scream, if he doesn't have the Tzeentchy casting gift (seem to recall there is one, not sure), but rending sword instead of a casting item? I don't like it. Disk is cool for all the usual reasons though, and chaos sorcerer can beat up a war machine crew.

You can have both the roar and the +d3 casting dice...Here is how I kitted a Theoretical Tzeentch Sorc Lord:

Tzeentch Sorc Lord (Level 4, Disc, Rending sword, Eye of Tzeentch, rod of Torment, Bloodcurdling Roar, Conjoined homonculous)

The rending sword + roar is a cool combo...Strength 1, ignore armor...But re-roll failed wounds. Combined with all the magic missiles that Tzeentch has (And the bound Magic Missile) and he can wreck units.

So the champions are compelled to issue challenges alongside the heros. Does this mean that you can choose which...never mind, I don't want to branch into a YMDC debate in a tactica thread. I'll take the benefit, and smile about it.

@flameblade: Oops! I meant d3 + 1. d3 +1 will do 3 wounds on average, which will kill a Lord, and in 2 wounds kill a dragon.
Sorry about that.

@Sorc lord: I guess. I'm not a fan of generals on flying mounts that can't hide in combat. How many wounds does he do with shooting + bound spells to t4 guys on average?

6 Wounds with just roar and bound items (2 ignoring AS). Gateway plus flickering fire averages another 10 wounds. Not to mention other nasty things he can do.

Note, Sorc lord is not my general. I have an exalted hero for that.