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For those not living in the UK, they held the 40K GT finals this weekend.

If you are unfamiliar with the event, they have 3 Heats held in the fall and they take the top players to then go onto the finals held this weekend.

It is a 6 game GT, at 1500 points, and they draw players from all over Europe.

The top ten armies where: (Taken from The Warhammer forum)

Eldar
Chaos
Chaos
Eldar
Orks
Chaos
Tyranids
Orks
Witchunter
Orks

Blackmoor...I didn't know you travelled to England.

Wow, Eldar won it. Color me impressed w/the fact that they landed in the top 10 twice. Funny that Orks and Chaos had 3 each. Interesting

Centurian99 wrote:Blackmoor...I didn't know you travelled to England.

I just report the news, I don't make it.

Hmm, I wonder what the army lists were, Im imagining the atleast two of the orks and chaos being spam lists, hmm, wonder what the eldar players had...hmmm...

edit damned double posts

The UK meta game a little different than what I am used to seeing.

Hulksmash wrote:Wow, Eldar won it. Color me impressed w/the fact that they landed in the top 10 twice. Funny that Orks and Chaos had 3 each. Interesting

There is no news yet of what the ork armies were, but you can win with a lot of ork builds.

The chaos armies were dual lash (Shocking!!!).

As to the Eldar armies go, they were Seer Council on bikes. The funny thing is that Seer Councils were top tier armies in 3rd edition and disappeared in 4th edition and then they arrived again in 5th. They work well because you can take unkillable troops (Wraithguard and Pathfinders) and then the seer councils work because of the 5th edition combat resolution because they are able to do wounds without taking any in return. I think Stelek was ahead of the curve in the US thinking this was a top tier army.

The one result that surprised me was the Tyranid army.



The results bring up and an interesting idea for you guys.

Thesis: Orks do better in the US because of comp.

The natural enemy and counter of the Orks are Dual Lash Chaos. In the UK where they have a history of no comp, they unabashedly bring the hardest lists they can, and that means a lot of Lash wielding Chaos armies. In the US, people still are left with a legacy of comp and a lot of people still hold back from bringing the truly nasty chaos armies that can beat orks.

interesting thoughts blackmoor...

Stelek was ahead of the curve in that respect, but i dissagree with his thoughts "gunlines win games"

I'm surprised that there was no daemon list there either?

I don't think they are running the good daemon list there yet....

I'm guessing the seer council's unkillability comes from 4+ invuln/rerollable....

At 1750 it can be an incredibly small army. I don't see how it could be done at 1500.

Xenageo reported these lists on the top tables (they were sketchy)

1 used 2 seer councils on jetbikes, 2x3 guardian jetbikes, 5 pathfinders and 5 dire avengers in a falcon with holofield

1 seer council on jetbikes, eldrad, 2 wraithlords, 3 units of guardians with warlocks and weapon platforms on foot, 1 unit of dire avengers in a falcon


2 (1?) fireprisms and 2 serpents (direavengers?) and a jetbike seer council

1 serpent/dire avengers, 1 council and some guardian jetbikes and other random bits



Top Orks were Nob Bikers, and they were losing to Seer Council lists.

Some more from Warseer:

Mad Larkin UK;3377417 wrote:just got back, had an epic weekend. Will post up a report of sorts, but for anyone interested:
1:Ugo Oliveti with 1 Council and other stuff Eldar
2:Simone Di Tomaso with Chaos, unsure of list
3 Allen El-Sour with Chaos,2 lash 4 oblits and Land raiding berzerkers
4:Alex Whitehead with 2 Council Eldar
5:Scott Young with i think 4 Battlewagon Ghazgul
6:Me (James McGlough) with Chaos, Abbadon, Kharne and 2 Land raiders.
7hil Walter with Nidzilla
8:Gary Percival with Orks
9:Andrew Taylor with Witchunters ! :p
10avid Richardson with Orks

Lots of battlewagons, and the 2 top chaos armies had 2 lash and 1 land raider + some oblits. Armour 14 is the way to go.

Out of the top 50 there were:
14 Orks
12 Eldar
7 Chaos
4 Daemons
2 Witch hunters
2 Tyranids
2 Space marines
2 Space wolves
1 Necron
1 Blood angel
1 Dark eldar
1 Guard
1 Tau

So a nice representation from lots of armies, not as many chaos, and the high ones wernt 9 lash oblits. Lots of seer councils and battlewagons everywhere.

Had a great laugh, no problems, awesome time!

Seer council is better suited for 1500 while nob bikers are not. I'm sure if seer councils on jetbikes were that good at 1750+ points we would see a lot of them by now in the good ole USA.

G

Actually the survivability of seer council on jetbikes comes from the rerollable 3+ armor/turboboost cover save.

Foot seercouncil is not nearly as good because all they have is the 4+ invulnerable.

Yea in all honesty seeing the Eldar on top floored me. Im used to seeing people say Orks,demons,chaos
Orks tho usually annoy me because alot of the killy is because people take a million lootas. Nob bikers tho my god I never think about how deadly that would be

Yay WitchHunters! Its good to see them in the top 10.

Yet so sad to see only 1 of 50 players being Tau or one of many other armies.

Also only 5 loyalist space marine players of all persuasions.

Looks like if you took an army to beat non MEQ you'd be doing alright.

BrockSamson wrote:Yet so sad to see only 1 of 50 players being Tau or one of many other armies.

There were more armies that played, those are just the ones in the top 50. So there might have been more Tau, but they did not do as well (which is expected). The lone Demonhunter came in #119 so there were at least that many players.

Green Blow Fly wrote:Seer council is better suited for 1500 while nob bikers are not. I'm sure if seer councils on jetbikes were that good at 1750+ points we would see a lot of them by now in the good ole USA.

I am not so sure. During the heats there were no Nob Bikers in the UK, but after the success of them in the US, I think they copied us, and some did well.

I expect to see a lot more of the Seer Council in the US now since it did well at the UK GT. I don’t think I saw a Seer Council at either US GTs that I went to, or if I did, they were either small or the rest of the army was non-competitive.

I think we're already determined that Nob Bikes can't be beaten, so these results are obviously bogus.

It will be interesting to see if more jetbike seer councils show up in the USA. I still don't think they will do that well as there has been a lot of discussion about fielding them already. We'll see though. Probably won't see many at Adepticon since this news is so close to the early April date.

G

At 1750 - 1850 you have enough points to run two full nob biker units with 5 klaws, a painboy and all the necessary wargear like boss poles and Waaagh banners. You really have to cut back at 1500 points... they still did well in the UK but not as well as here. It's interesting to see that Europe is spamming the popular lists here in the USA.

G

BrockSamson wrote:Yet so sad to see only 1 of 50 players being Tau or one of many other armies.

Everyone knows that 5e hammered Tau pretty hard, even so we shouldn't make too much out of one tournament result.

Straight rankings can be deceptive without detailed results. A few points, negligible in the overall view, can make a big difference.

Tau used to do better in the UK than the USA because the UK GT gives less weight to smashing victories, which are hard for Tau to achieve compared to wins.

Also take into account the other rules in the events "missions and homebrewed FAQs" for example.

Quite silly really. You have single ubber units running around that no balanced lists can deal with. (Nob bikes, Seer councils ect). What's enjoyable again with 5th edition? I guess I just don't enjoy a game of Rock, Paper, and scissors anymore. Thus I play more and more War Machine and Hordes. I am now of the opinion that 4th was a better rules set minus the skimmer rules and combat snipeing but even with that I think I prefer to what the game has devolved into.

Lemartes wrote:Quite silly really. You have single ubber units running around that no balanced lists can deal with. (Nob bikes, Seer councils ect). What's enjoyable again with 5th edition? I guess I just don't enjoy a game of Rock, Paper, and scissors anymore. Thus I play more and more War Machine and Hordes. I am now of the opinion that 4th was a better rules set minus the skimmer rules and combat snipeing but even with that I think I prefer to what the game has devolved into.

5th is a much better ruleset. The codicies are what are breaking the game.

And I'd like to challenge that Stelek came up with the seer council on bikes. Alot of people (even me!) were talking about how nice they were for a long time. The determining factors are models, as they are a pain to convert.

EDIT:

And speaking of conversions, I want to see their models . I loves me a good jetbike mounted warlock.

I have a question - I don't know where the results are but one thing I read in the past is that for the UK GT they use a straight 3-1-0 scoring system - 3 points for a win, 1 for a tie and 0 for a loss. As opposed to in the US where there tends to be massacre, solid victory, minor victory, etc. Is this true?

I mention it because that seems to be something that would affect the metagame quite a bit. Some armies can win a lot but rarely massacre, while others are massacre machines which occasionally hit a bad matchup or get bad rolls and end up with a loss. If you can't make up for your losses by getting massacres then you're obviously better off playing an army that just wins all the time. This would make me think that Daemons would be hurt by a 3-1-0 setup, for example.

So metagame differences would be:
1500 instead of 1750
no comp
3-1-0 instead of 20/17/13/10/7/3/0 or however it goes now.

Yes, that is how the UK GT operates.

Compared to the US scoring it does not favour massacring lists so much, so the Tau used to do better. They could win and get max points but they could hardly ever get massacres.