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This is a character from the Dow II a Captian from the Blood Ravens Chapter I was wondering if...

1. People making post could give me feedback what they think, if he too strong, weak,etc.
2. Have and suggestions on how to like tune him up or down and what should cost be
3. Would you be willing to play against him in a friendly game
4. Know the words to the hit song "Hungry Like The Wolf" by Duran Duran lol jk

200 points- Captain Gabriel Angelos of 3rd Company, Master of The Watch -

WS-6 BS-5 S-4 T-4 W-3 I-5 A-3 Ld-10 Sv-+2/+4

Special Rules-
Independent Character, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics or Chapter Tactics,
War Cry, Rites of Battle and My Foe Shall Fall!

Chapter Tactics- The Blood Ravens have been known to "adjust" their interpretation of the Codex Astartes based on the foe they face. All units may exchange Combat Tactics for Chapter Tactics, which allows all tactical squads under Gabriel Angelos command to gain one of the following USRs: Counter-Attack or Tank Hunter, his company veterans being highly adept at these. The rule must be chosen before deployment, and all tactical squads must gain the same rule. Veteran squads have trained too long in their discipline to gain the benefit of this "adjustment".

My Foe Shall Fall!- Gabriel Angelos is renowned for felling mighty Blood Thirsters and Hive Tyrants alike, any enemy will fall to his might. Before a game starts, Gabriel Angelos may nominate an enemy IC for My Foe Shall Fall!, he gains USR: preferred enemy and a +1 attack against that IC and only that IC, even if there are multiple of the same IC it is agasint that specific one.

War Cry- Gabriel Angelos has been known to inspire his Space Marines with his awe inspiring war cry, filling them with the holy protection of the Emepror. Before Gabriel charges an enemy, he must declare that he is using War Cry and roll for leadership test, if he passes, then this ability gives the unit Angelos is attached to a Invulnerable Save of +5 for the first assault round between Gabriel's unit and the unit he has charged. If the unit Gabriel is attached to kills or routs the enemy unit, they make there sweeping advance and consolidation and keep the ability until Gabriel's next assault phase in which the unit he is attached to return to there normal stats, if they are defeated, they lose the benefit that assault phase. Gabriel is not affected from this as he already has a +4 Invulnerable Save

Wargear-

God-Splitter- A two handed master-crafted Daemonhammer gifted to Gabriel by Inquistor Toth to slay the Daemon Prince Sindri on Tartarus, unfortunately opening the Maledictum releasing a far greater foe to face later in life. It Has been used by him ever since to smite his foes for the Emperor. Counts as a master-crafted Daemonhammer and also gives a +1 attack(this is included in Gabriel's stats). All hits by Godsplitter are resloved at strength 8

Gabriel's Judgment- A suit of masterly crafted artificer armor, forged for Gabriel after His leave of Tartarus, the forging process taking many centuries to complete the use of new techniques making sure the armor was almost impenetrable and a glorious sight to be hold for the 3rd Company Captain. It was given to him after his return from his purging of Rahe's Paradise of the Necron. Grants a +2 Armor Save

Cloak of The Blood Ravens- Gifted to Gabriel by there Chapter Master after the crushing defeat he delivered to the Tau in the Targa System. It bears not only the symbol of The Blood Ravens upon it, but the blood of ever Chapter Master and brother fell in battle since the dawn of the chapter, the saying is that the fallen brothers protect the wearer shielding him from almost certain death at the hands of the enemy.Grants a +4 Invulnerable Save

Frag & Krak Grenades

Could you rephrase and clarify the chapter tactics part a little? Its awful hard to read. Is it allowing squads to BECOME sternguard/vanguard/terminators at 5 points per model? is it making them COST just that? or is it an additional cost for chapter tactics to be given to those particular squads?

3+ invulnerable save could be a little much unless he'sexpensive, but not necessarily out of place, so that's not too bad. Eternal Warrior does nothing to prevent plasma weapons though, so its not "unneeded". if that's what you were worried about. it affects prevents Instant Death (reducing it to a regular wound, NOT eliminating the hit, just so you know).

'My Foe Shall Fall': Maybe its because I'm a tau player, but I'm seeing something very, very wrong there. Its almost guaranteed someone will place Gabriel with a unit, go after every IC he can find, and instantly wipe entire units attached to the independant character. This as far as I can tell is a literal "I win" button in close combat, most especially since he can drag a unit, retinue or whatever along for the ride in this manner, ensuring whoever he swarms (if somehow he doesn't instakill them in a single blow) also loses everything they were attached to.
If I got surprised with that little bastard of a rule in the middle of a friendly game I'd probably feed said player his models till he stops (moving/struggling).

Godsplitter (is that really what they named that thing?) I dunno; I'm always rather weary of things that allow you to melee a titan to death... Just Mastercrafted daemonhammer is probably good enough. That's probably strength 8 but I'm not really sure. It'll still let him stun vehicles on hit anyways if I recall, which is pretty damn nasty already.


Overall though its not too bad to me. Only that one rule really went and set off the blaring mental red flags of doomness.

Lord Chiasson wrote:This is a character from the Dow II a Captian from the Blood Ravens Chapter I was wondering if...
Gabriel Angelos, 3rd Company Captain -

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 5 4 4 3 5 3 10 +2/+3

Nothing too impressive here. The invuln is interesting, I'll discuss it later.

Lord Chiasson wrote:
Special Rules-
Independent Character, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics or Chapter Tactics,
Eternal Warrior, Rites of Battle and My Foe Shall Fall!

The inclusion of Rites of Battle was interesting. Other than that, fairly standard.

Lord Chiasson wrote:
Chapter Tactics-
The Blood Ravens Have been know to steer from the Codex Astartes by studying there enemy before the strike against them.
Unleashing all there carfully planned strikes, there enemy unable to counter till its too late. All units in your army may exchange Combat Tactics for Chapter Tactics which always two tactical squads to take one of the following special rules, counter-attack,
infiltrate, scout or tank hunters at no additional cost and also any veteran squad(Sternguard, Vanguard, Terminators, etc) at 5 points
a model.

If I may?
Chapter Tactics:
The Blood Ravens have been known to "adjust" their interpretation of the Codex Astartes based on the foe they face. All units may exchange Combat Tactics for Chapter Tactics, which allows all tactical squads to gain one of the following USRs: Counter-Attack, Infiltrate, Scout, or Tank Hunter. The rule must be chosen before deployment, and all tactical squads must gain the same rule. Veteran squads have trained too long in their discipline to gain the benefit of this "adjustment".

Firstly, none of the 5th ed Chapter Tactics make you spend points on them, so I removed that rule, instead leaving the veteran squads as they are, but to make up for it, I expanded the two squads to all tactical. I don't think this is over-powered, since it forces all the squads to compensate for your tactical liquidity.

Lord Chiasson wrote:
My Foe Shall Fall!- Gabriel Angelos has felled many an enemy in one on one combat, Gabriel may target a single Independent Character during the assault phase, the combat between the two must be resloved before other close combat takes place. If either the enemy or Gabriel is attached to a squad then that units must also engage in close combat until either the enemies Character falls or Gabriel, If Gabriel wins he and his unit automatically make a sweeping advance and destory the unit, however if Gabriel falls then the unit he is attached to is destoryed, neither victor gets to consolidate.

This rule, as written, is a bit over the top. Again, my suggestion.

We Fight As Men: Gabriel Angelos is adept at bringing forth the leaders of his foes, and facing them in single combat. In any assault where Gabriel and an enemy independent Character are involved, before any attacks are made, Gabriel will issue a challenge. The other player may decide to accept or decline the challenge. Should he refuse, gabriel and any unit he is attached to gain Preferred Enemy for this round, as the Blood Angels seek to overrun the coward. If he accepts, both characters move into base-to-base contact, and must make all their attacks against the other. No unit in this assault will fight until the duel is resolved. Once one of the two characters has fallen, the enemy unit must immediately make a morale test, adjusted by the wounds their champion lost by. (ie, if gabriel lost one wound, and killed a 3 wound model, the enemy's morale is -2.) IF they fail, they have lost combat, and attempt to fallback, with the risk of sweeping advance, etc. If they succeed, they continue the assault as normal on the next player turn.

My rule is more complex then yours, but I feel the complexity arises from the need to balance a single combat against units. This way, a character which has no way of beating Gabriel can still try and face his now Preferred enemy squad.

Lord Chiasson wrote:
Wargear-
Godsplitter- A two handed master-crafted Daemonhammer gifted to Gabriel by Inquistor Toth on Tartarus, it Has been used by him ever since to smite his foes for the Emperor. Counts as a master-crafted Daemonhammer(see Daemon Hunter Rules, dnt have one NOOOO! so im guessing its like a Thunderhammer just better agasint Daemons?) All hits by Godsplitter are resloved at strength 10

So, it's the Fist of Dorn with Daemonhammer stats. (BTW, a Daemonhammer is a thunderhammer that hits at Initiative against Daemons.) This does make his whole duel rule interesting. The enemy's going to hit him, but then he's probably going to crush them.

Lord Chiasson wrote:
Armour of The 3rd- a suit of greatly crafted articficer armour used by generations of 3rd company captians. grants +2 armour save and +3 invulrable save(not sure if invulrable even nessary seeing that he already has eternal warrior please inform thnkz)

Now, I said I'd get back to the invulnerable save, and now I will. The invuln is interesting for the following reason: it's only built into the armor because your own rules made you. You could easily say the Daemonhammer remains one-handed, and give him a storm shield, and by the rules, he'd be fine.

Lord Chiasson wrote:
Digital Weapons

Frag & Krak Grenades

The digital weapon actually bother me here. Why re-roll one of your almost guaranteed to wound attacks? But, to each his own.

So, as far as balance goes. The nearest model to this guy is Captain Darnath Lysander. Let's compare.
Lysander: +1W. Chapter Tactics all Stubborn, and his squad re-rolls bolter shots. and +1 vehicle damage
Angelos: Chapter tactics only benefits some of his army, better than Lys against Daemons, and good at killing ICs.

So, for beginning playtesting and so forth, I'd price this guy at around 190-215, solely for peace of mind. Lysander is harder to kill than he is, but this guy's going to inspire more fear.

The problem I have with this guy is that he's been designed to crush any IC he comes across AND auto-kill the squad he's facing. So much of his equipment is designed to let him ROFLstomp other IC. That's not so bad, but when his doing so allows him to automatically crush everything else he's fighting, it's stupidly OTT. I'd just drop this guy for a generic captain with the right wargear.

Ok guys thank you for all the input, especially AllWillFall2Me, I took your Chapter tactics rule that you made and also the We fight as men rule but kept old name(if that fine wit you) thank you. Also kept digital weapons and added to Godsplitter the bonus attack given for weilding two close combat weapons and added the extra damage roll to vechiles(making it basically a Daemonhammer with Fist of Dorn profile). Also added 1 wound(mite be too much I know, let me know), changed articficer armour to Undying Aura of the Unknown Primarch(just to make more fluffy) and dropped the invulnerable save on it but added Cloak of The Blood Ravens which gives him +3 invulnerable save, also changed Title of Character to Master of The Watch(again more fluff)

note: Was also wanting to add one to weapon skil but left out cause thought it be way too much, but would add if I can get away wit it lol(if anyone would play agaisnt him wit WS7)


Captain Gabriel Angelos, Master of The Watch -

WS-6 BS-5 S-4 T-4 W-4 I-5 A-4 Ld-10 Sv-+2/+3

Special Rules-
Independent Character, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics or Chapter Tactics,
Eternal Warrior, Rites of Battle and My Foe Shall Fall!

Chapter Tactics- The Blood Ravens have been known to "adjust" their interpretation of the Codex Astartes based on the foe they face. All units may exchange Combat Tactics for Chapter Tactics, which allows all tactical squads to gain one of the following USRs: Counter-Attack, Infiltrate, Scout, or Tank Hunter. The rule must be chosen before deployment, and all tactical squads must gain the same rule. Veteran squads have trained too long in their discipline to gain the benefit of this "adjustment".

My Foe Shall Fall!- Gabriel Angelos is adept at bringing forth the leaders of his foes, and facing them in single combat. In any assault where Gabriel and an enemy independent Character are involved, before any attacks are made, Gabriel will issue a challenge. The other player may decide to accept or decline the challenge. Should he refuse, gabriel and any unit he is attached to gain Preferred Enemy for this round, as the Blood Angels seek to overrun the coward. If he accepts, both characters move into base-to-base contact, and must make all their attacks against the other. No unit in this assault will fight until the duel is resolved. Once one of the two characters has fallen, the enemy unit must immediately make a morale test, adjusted by the wounds their champion lost by. (ie, if gabriel lost one wound, and killed a 3 wound model, the enemy's morale is -2.) If they fail, they have lost combat, and attempt to fallback, with the risk of sweeping advance, etc. If they succeed, they continue the assault as normal on the next player turn.

Wargear-
Godsplitter- A two handed master-crafted Daemonhammer gifted to Gabriel by Inquistor Toth on Tartarus, it Has been used by him ever since to smite his foes for the Emperor. Counts as a master-crafted Daemonhammer, it also gains the bonus extra attack as if he were weilding two Daemonhammers. All hits by Godsplitter are resloved at strength 10 and add +1 to rolls on the vehicle damage table.

Undying Aura of the Unknown Primarch- A suit of masterly crafted artificer armor, awarded to Gabriel after his purging of the Necrons on Rahe's Paradise, Inscribed upon it reads, Stand firm like the mighty Primarchs who lost upon savage worlds stood above all men. grants +2 armour save

Cloak of The Blood Ravens- Gifted to Gabriel by there Chapter Master after the crushing defeat he delivered to the Tau. It bears the blood of ever Chapter Master and brother fell in battle since the dawn of The Chapter, It is also made of materiel capable of stopping even the strongest of weapons in the galaxy, tho the materiel is now long lost to The Imperium. Grants a +3 invulnerable save

Digital Weapons

Frag & Krak Grenades

I don't like the overlap with Sicarius' special rule (vet skill to a squad). It also doesn't seem very Blood Ravenesque. The duel stuff is too complex. Why not just give him preferred enemy against independent characters or even the enemy army?

Godsplitter seems fine as just a MC Daemon hammer. It probably shouldn't get 3 special abilities- +1 A, +1 vehicle damage, +2 STR. Maybe 1. Drop digital weapons.

As he is, he should probably cost upwards of 300. He is basically Lysander+Sicarius.

@ Lord Chaisson: I'm slightly leery of the new Gabriel. The reason I said 190-215 was because he was less than Lysander in a few ways, but better in others. By your new changes, he's just flat out better than Lysander.

My suggestions for better balance: Remove the +1 attack from Godsplitter. 3 attacks against an IC at strength 10 is going to kill most of them. However, those who don't shouldn't be killed in a single round of combat, if you follow. Right now, Gabriel can fight Marneus Calgar, with the following results.

Angelos
4 attacks,2 hits, 1.94 wounds, .97 unsaved
Calgar
5 attacks,2.5 hit, 2.425 wounds, .8 unsaved

(i think my mathhammer is slightly off, in Angelos' favor. Does digital only allow one re-roll of a wound?)

Angelos can beat the Chapter Master of the Ultramarines in single combat. Marneus calgar has a rule titled God of War for a reason. If he didn't have eternal warrior, he'd lose in the first round.

If you want this guy to fight characters, you at least have to let them feel they have a chance.

Also, as jmurph noted, my rule's a little wordy. Let's see if we can adjust it. I'll get to that when I get back from class.

I have returned. Here's a quick re-cap of what should be done, IMHO:
Either Gabriel has 3 wounds or 3 attacks. Potentially both.
I'm not against the vehicle bonus, but it might be stepping on Lysander's toes, however, I do mildly agree with Jmurph. IN my eyes, either take away the +1 vehicle damage, or the bonus attack.
Digital Weapon just doesn't seem to fit.

Here's a new idea for the duel:

My Foe Shall Fall: In an assault where Gabriel and an enemy IC are involved, Gabriel may issue a challenge. This is done before pile-in. Roll d6 and add Gabriel's leadership. The enemy IC does the same. If Gabriel wins, during the pile-in, the enemy IC must move into base-to-base contact with Gabriel (Blood angel models will move to allow the enemy in), and both models are treated as a separate combat from their squads. If the enemy wins, he may pile-in as he wishes, and the assault proceeds as normal.

OK thanks guys, here next version of Gabriel Angelos. I droped him to 3 wounds as yes you are right AllWillFall2Me, He is just a captain and shouldnt be able to completely overpower a hauss like Marneus Calgar a Chapter Master. Also dropped digital weapons as request (only allows one reroll for one failed to wound in each assault pahse). I kept the 4 attacks but dropped the +1 to vehicle damage. I am still kinda not wanting to let go of the old MY Foe Shall Fall! lol I like it, I kinda went more indepth with it if it seemed like it was not explained fully, any or added my own piece too it, tho may have goten more complicated, reasons for this, I want to have a consequence for the enemy if they lose the duel if attached to unit and if Gabriel loses attached to a uint to make it fair of course, any suggestions? Thanks again for everyones inputs hope this is more balacned, also any suggestions on final point cost?

Note: Thank you arinnoor I added your idea about splitting the Chapter tactics, Gabriel will get abiltly to give either Counter-Attack or Tank Hunter too Tactical squads.



Captain Gabriel Angelos, Master of The Watch -

WS-6 BS-5 S-4 T-4 W-3 I-5 A-4 Ld-10 Sv-+2/+3

Special Rules-
Independent Character, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics or Chapter Tactics,
Eternal Warrior, Rites of Battle and My Foe Shall Fall!

Chapter Tactics- The Blood Ravens have been known to "adjust" their interpretation of the Codex Astartes based on the foe they face. All units may exchange Combat Tactics for Chapter Tactics, which allows all tactical squads under Gabriel Angelos command to gain one of the following USRs: Counter-Attack or Tank Hunter, his company veterans being highly adept at these. The rule must be chosen before deployment, and all tactical squads must gain the same rule. Veteran squads have trained too long in their discipline to gain the benefit of this "adjustment".

My Foe Shall Fall!- Gabriel Angelos is adept at bringing forth the leaders of his foes, and facing them in single combat. In any assault where Gabriel and an enemy independent Character are involved, before any attacks are made, Gabriel will issue a challenge. The other player may decide to accept or decline the challenge. Should he refuse, gabriel and any unit he is attached to gain Preferred Enemy for this round, as the Blood Ravens seek to overrun the coward. If he accepts, both characters move into base-to-base contact with the enemies IC, and must make all their attacks against the other. No unit in this assault will fight until the duel is resolved. Once one of the two characters has fallen, the enemy unit must immediately make a morale test, adjusted by the wounds their champion lost by. (ie, if gabriel lost one wound, and killed a 3 wound model, the enemy's morale is -2.) If they fail, they have lost combat, and attempt to fallback, with the risk of sweeping advance, etc. If they succeed, they continue the assault as normal on the next player turn. If Gabriel is defeated(the enemies scores more hits on Gabriel then he on then or is killed) then the assault countines as normal with any other bonuses applied for the enemy(charge bonus for example),but not the Blood Ravens.

Wargear-
Godsplitter- A two handed master-crafted Daemonhammer gifted to Gabriel by Inquistor Toth on Tartarus, it Has been used by him ever since to smite his foes for the Emperor. Counts as a master-crafted Daemonhammer, it also gains the bonus extra attack as if he were weilding two Daemonhammers. All hits by Godsplitter are resloved at strength 10

Undying Aura of the Unknown Primarch- A suit of masterly crafted artificer armor, awarded to Gabriel after his purging of the Necrons on Rahe's Paradise, Inscribed upon it reads, Stand firm like the mighty Primarchs who lost upon savage worlds stood above all men. grants +2 armour save

Cloak of The Blood Ravens- Gifted to Gabriel by there Chapter Master after the crushing defeat he delivered to the Tau. It bears the blood of ever Chapter Master and brother fell in battle since the dawn of The Chapter, It is also made of materiel capable of stopping even the strongest of weapons in the galaxy, tho the materiel is now long lost to The Imperium. Grants a +3 invulnerable save

Frag & Krak Grenades

This guy is looking good as well. Fo his points cvost I think someting along the lines of 200-250.

Compared to Calgar, this guy seems a little less offensively capable through lack of range, but FAR more capable defensively and no less able to take down a titan. I'd say you're looking closer to 280~300 points.

@Nova and Arinoor: He is 300+ at least for the following reasons:

IMO, he is still too good.

1. He is basically Calgar, in HTH as he gets an extra weapon bonus, despite the Daemonhammer being a 2 handed weapon, and having no additional weapons in his description!!!
1a. With higher strength - Calgar is S8 IIRC.
1b. With a 3+(I) save - Calgar gets his 4+(I) from his Iron Halo - IIRC.
1c. With ETERNAL WARRIOR - which means that it will take 3 unsaved powerweapon/fist attacks to kill him, after his 3+(I) save. Calgar just has to fail one save and he'd be squished.
1d. With the ability to force either break checks on his opponent at -2 TYP or give his guys perfered enemy.
1e. There is no penalty for him losing the challenge. No leadership check, no initiative penalty. NOTHING.
1f. If Calgar wears terminator armor to match Gabriel's artificer armor save, he can't sweep advance.
-edit- I just noticed he has BASE ATTACKS 4, FOR 6 ATTACKS ON THE CHARGE. -sigh-

So... Advantage Gabriel +6 over Calgar.

2. He gives more than 1 veteran ability - with the ability to switch between games.

Ok. Gives one of 2 veteran abilities vs single use orbital bombardment. Advantage - Gabriel 7+ over Calgar

3. On top of that, he's got Sicarius' rites of battle for no reason.

This one vs. God of War. It's a wash.

He's PWN Calgar in a HTH fight. So Gabriel has 7 advantages over Calgar. As such, he would have to be costed appropriately. I'd set his points at 150% to 200% what Calgar costs.

If you took away Eternal Warrior - I'd say he'd be around 250-280. Make his chapter tactics a single ability and I'd say he's 230-250.

Maybe 230 points be reasonable? Or just as much as Calgar? 250

Lord Chiasson wrote:Maybe 230 points be reasonable? Or just as much as Calgar? 250

IMO, he'd have to be more. He's way better than Calgar.

What you suggestion then?

See my above post. IMO, it is Eternal Warrior that is making him far too tough, since he also has a 3+ save.

Let's take this example:

Since Gabriel gets 5 attacks in combat, let's pit him against 2 Ironclads (270 points) in combat at the same time.

Gabriel goes first.
5 attacks (2/3 hits)(1/2 penetrates)(1/3 destroyed)
5/9 destroyed dreadnoughts per round. So every 2 rounds, he'll destroy a dreadnought.

Ironclad dreadnoughts: 6 attacks = 5/6 wound.

Gabriel round 2, destroys a dreadnought.

Ironclads swing back, 3 attacks = 5/12 wound.

Gabriel round 3, destroys half a dreadnought

Ironclads swing back, 3 attacks, Gabriel has 1 wound.

Gabriel round 4. Destroys the last dreadnought.

Granted - this is kind of an overkill example, but really, no Space Marine character should be able to fight two HTH dreadnoughts and WIN.

Keeping the character the way you have it now, I am thinking 350 points would be about right.

Ok here new version of Gabriel, as much as I hate it I dropped Eternal Warrior , suggested by keezus thanks tho you do have more experince at the game so I should listen . Went a complty diff way with My Foe Shall Fall, mite be too much not sure but I think it alot better then before. I do want to keep the chapter tactics tho, its for fluff reasons and I know its much, any suggestions? cause dot want to just give him Sicarius cause that an Ultramarine thing want a unique chapter tactic. Keep any suggestions comin, and thanks to all again tryin to get a somewhat good balanced character.




Captain Gabriel Angelos of 3rd Company, Master of The Watch -

WS-6 BS-5 S-4 T-4 W-3 I-5 A-4 Ld-10 Sv-+2/+3

Special Rules-
Independent Character, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics or Chapter Tactics,
Rites of Battle and My Foe Shall Fall!

Chapter Tactics- The Blood Ravens have been known to "adjust" their interpretation of the Codex Astartes based on the foe they face. All units may exchange Combat Tactics for Chapter Tactics, which allows all tactical squads under Gabriel Angelos command to gain one of the following USRs: Counter-Attack or Tank Hunter, his company veterans being highly adept at these. The rule must be chosen before deployment, and all tactical squads must gain the same rule. Veteran squads have trained too long in their discipline to gain the benefit of this "adjustment".

My Foe Shall Fall!- Gabriel Angelos is renowned for felling mighty Blood Thirsters and Hive Tyrants alike, any enemy will fall to his might. Before a game starts, Gabriel Angelos may nominate an enemy IC for My Foe Shall Fall!, he gains USR: preferred enemy and a +1 attack against that IC and only that IC, even if there are multiple of the same IC it is agasint that specific one.

Wargear-
Godsplitter- A two handed master-crafted Daemonhammer gifted to Gabriel by Inquistor Toth on Tartarus, it Has been used by him ever since to smite his foes for the Emperor. Counts as a master-crafted Daemonhammer, it also gains the bonus extra attack as if he were weilding two Daemonhammers(this is included in Gabriel's stats). All hits by Godsplitter are resloved at strength 10

Undying Aura of the Unknown Primarch- A suit of masterly crafted artificer armor, awarded to Gabriel after his purging of the Necrons on Rahe's Paradise, Inscribed upon it reads, Stand firm like the mighty Primarchs who lost upon savage worlds stood above all men. grants +2 armour save

Cloak of The Blood Ravens- Gifted to Gabriel by there Chapter Master after the crushing defeat he delivered to the Tau. It bears the blood of ever Chapter Master and brother fell in battle since the dawn of The Chapter, It is also made of materiel capable of stopping even the strongest of weapons in the galaxy, tho the materiel is now long lost to The Imperium. Grants a +3 invulnerable save

Frag & Krak Grenades

A few paragraph breaks in there would be healthy for the eyes.

Under this latest version, not too bad. The guy can be killed by a seeker, but has a 3+ save to counter it. His S4 is a lie, given he hits at S10 in close combat; the only place the Strength stat ever matters. I'd put parentheses around the A4: its easier to see 3(4) and know he's getting extra from wargear, but maybe that's just from my reading the tau codex too damn much (where you have 2(3), 3(2) and 3(4) a few times).

I don't see any penalty for losing 'my foe must fall': going on I1 when the unit's that much better than anything not-carnifex, or has powerfists to begin with, isn't much of a loss. Imagine how much whatever marines are attached to gabriel will care about going at I1 when some fire warriors or guardsmen are breaking their fists on their supermutant faces. It also needs some serious rewording, I had to go through it about 4 times to make heads or tails of the thing. Different paragraph also recommended. Here's what I THINK you meant cleaned up for you:

My Foe Shall Fall! : In any assault where Gabriel and an enemy Independant Character are involved, Gabriel's player may choose to issue a challenge. If the player refuses, the assault move and resulting close combat is resolved normally, with the addition that Gabriel and any unit he is attached to gain the Prefered Enemy USR versus the offending race for the remainder of this close-combat resolution.

If the player accepts, Gabriel becomes the assaulting model, even if he is not the closest model to the enemy unit: If he cannot reach the enemy unit, the Assault has failed and no models are moved. If Gabriel can reach a model of the enemy unit, immediately place him in base to base contact with the Independant Character. Both characters perform their Close Combat attacks independantly, attacking only each-other; attached units and retinues may not intervene.

If Gabriel wins*, the opponent takes a morale test for his entire unit, adjusted by -1 for each wound the combat was won by. Gabriel's unit may perform a Sweeping Advance against an enemy falling back in this way, but winning the sweep to them simply starts a regular assault, granting Furious Charge to the marines accompanying Gabriel as well as Angelos himself, who may use his regular attacks in addtion!

If Gabriel loses**, the enemy may choose to immediately charge the shocked marines, acting as if they had charged into combat themselves (Gabriel's Unit loses its +1A for charging into close combat and any other 'charge' bonuses it may have had), or choose instead to move back d6" and end the assault entirely (Gabriel's Unit may not attempt to assault again). The duel-stricken marines under the (possibly late) Angelos' command strike last, only hitting the victorious force 5+.




(*like, say the opponent didn't have 'imperator class' in his character name)
(*stop dueling titans)

Ok new Version out, Not too much changed just respelled some stuff renamed armor added more fluff to some stuff. Two big changes tho are My Foe Shall Fall! and new one I added War Cry, I went complty diff way wit My Foe Shall Fall! as it was gettin kinda complicated and hard to explain unless I had the models right in front of you showing how things go down, let me know if new My Foe Shall Fall too much or if can be tweaked or go back to old version, next War Cry, I think mite be much I like it tho think it pretty unique mite be too overpowered so was thinkin maybe a 1 or 2 time use in a single battle? or just leave how it is? Thanks again all for the input please let me know what you think and any suggestion or ideas would be greatly appreciated.



Captain Gabriel Angelos of 3rd Company, Master of The Watch -

WS-6 BS-5 S-4 T-4 W-3 I-5 A-3(4) Ld-10 Sv-+2/+3

Special Rules-
Independent Character, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics or Chapter Tactics,
War Cry, Rites of Battle and My Foe Shall Fall!

Chapter Tactics- The Blood Ravens have been known to "adjust" their interpretation of the Codex Astartes based on the foe they face. All units may exchange Combat Tactics for Chapter Tactics, which allows all tactical squads under Gabriel Angelos command to gain one of the following USRs: Counter-Attack or Tank Hunter, his company veterans being highly adept at these. The rule must be chosen before deployment, and all tactical squads must gain the same rule. Veteran squads have trained too long in their discipline to gain the benefit of this "adjustment".

My Foe Shall Fall!- Gabriel Angelos is renowned for felling mighty Blood Thirsters and Hive Tyrants alike, any enemy will fall to his might. Before a game starts, Gabriel Angelos may nominate an enemy IC for My Foe Shall Fall!, he gains USR: preferred enemy and a +1 attack against that IC and only that IC, even if there are multiple of the same IC it is agasint that specific one.

War Cry- Gabriel Angelos has been known to inspire his Space Marines with his awe inspiring war cry, filling them with the holy protection of the Emepror. Before Gabriel charges an enemy, he must declare that he is using War Cry, this ability gives the unit Angelos is attached to a Invulnerable Save of +4 for the first assault round between Gabriel's unit and the unit he has charged. If the unit Gabriel is attached to kills or routs the enemy unit, they make there sweeping advance and consolidation and keep the ability until Gabriel's next assault phase in which the unit he is attached to return to there normal stats, if they are defeated, they lose the benefit that assault phase. Gabriel is not affected from this as he already has a +3 Invulnerable Save

Wargear-
God-Splitter- A two handed master-crafted Daemonhammer gifted to Gabriel by Inquistor Toth to slay the Daemon Prince Sindri on Tartarus and unfortunately opening the Maledictum releasing a far greater foe to face later in life. It Has been used by him ever since to smite his foes for the Emperor. Counts as a master-crafted Daemonhammer and also gives a +1 attack(this is included in Gabriel's stats). All hits by Godsplitter are resloved at strength 10

Gabriel's Judgment- A suit of masterly crafted artificer armor, forged for Gabriel after His leave of Tartarus, the forging process taking many centuries to complete the use of new techniques making sure the armor was almost impenetrable and a glorious sight to be hold for the 3rd Company Captain. It was given to him after his return from his purging of Rahe's Paradise of the Necron. Grants a +2 Armor Save

Cloak of The Blood Ravens- Gifted to Gabriel by there Chapter Master after the crushing defeat he delivered to the Tau in the Targa System. It bears not only the symbol of The Blood Ravens upon it, but the blood of ever Chapter Master and brother fell in battle since the dawn of the chapter, the saying is that the fallen brothers protect the wearer shielding him from almost certain death at the hands of the enemy.Grants a +3 Invulnerable Save

Frag & Krak Grenades

I was thinking maybe a 215 point cost? not enough and yeah want to get a good decent point cost for my other two guys too

Why the hell would yelling a war cry make the people around you less likely to die?

Lol I guess you could see it as making them fearless or somthing but instead of giving them that I just gave an invul save to symbolize them ignoring any damage they receive cause they are so inspired by Angelos warcry, and it be kinda OP to let him do it and give whole sqaud Feel No Pain rule if he did it I think if not please let me know

ok I lowered the strength on God-Splitter to 8 cause yeah 10 is ridiculous

Maybe drop the invuln down to a six? I believe that's what faith in the Emperor gave SM in fourth edition.

Ok current version of Gabriel Angelos, I put God-Splitter back to strength 10 and that pretty much all ive messed with since trying to balance him gave him point cost let me know what you think?

215 points- Captain Gabriel Angelos of 3rd Company, Master of The Watch -

WS-6 BS-5 S-4 T-4 W-3 I-5 A-3(4) Ld-10 Sv-+2/+3

Special Rules-
Independent Character, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics or Chapter Tactics,
War Cry, Rites of Battle and My Foe Shall Fall!

Chapter Tactics- The Blood Ravens have been known to "adjust" their interpretation of the Codex Astartes based on the foe they face. All units may exchange Combat Tactics for Chapter Tactics, which allows all tactical squads under Gabriel Angelos command to gain one of the following USRs: Counter-Attack or Tank Hunter, his company veterans being highly adept at these. The rule must be chosen before deployment, and all tactical squads must gain the same rule. Veteran squads have trained too long in their discipline to gain the benefit of this "adjustment".

My Foe Shall Fall!- Gabriel Angelos is renowned for felling mighty Blood Thirsters and Hive Tyrants alike, any enemy will fall to his might. Before a game starts, Gabriel Angelos may nominate an enemy IC for My Foe Shall Fall!, he gains USR: preferred enemy and a +1 attack against that IC and only that IC, even if there are multiple of the same IC it is agasint that specific one.

War Cry- Gabriel Angelos has been known to inspire his Space Marines with his awe inspiring war cry, filling them with the holy protection of the Emepror. Before Gabriel charges an enemy, he must declare that he is using War Cry, this ability gives the unit Angelos is attached to a Invulnerable Save of +4 for the first assault round between Gabriel's unit and the unit he has charged. If the unit Gabriel is attached to kills or routs the enemy unit, they make there sweeping advance and consolidation and keep the ability until Gabriel's next assault phase in which the unit he is attached to return to there normal stats, if they are defeated, they lose the benefit that assault phase. Gabriel is not affected from this as he already has a +3 Invulnerable Save

Wargear-
God-Splitter- A two handed master-crafted Daemonhammer gifted to Gabriel by Inquistor Toth to slay the Daemon Prince Sindri on Tartarus and unfortunately opening the Maledictum releasing a far greater foe to face later in life. It Has been used by him ever since to smite his foes for the Emperor. Counts as a master-crafted Daemonhammer and also gives a +1 attack(this is included in Gabriel's stats). All hits by Godsplitter are resloved at strength 10

Gabriel's Judgment- A suit of masterly crafted artificer armor, forged for Gabriel after His leave of Tartarus, the forging process taking many centuries to complete the use of new techniques making sure the armor was almost impenetrable and a glorious sight to be hold for the 3rd Company Captain. It was given to him after his return from his purging of Rahe's Paradise of the Necron. Grants a +2 Armor Save

Cloak of The Blood Ravens- Gifted to Gabriel by there Chapter Master after the crushing defeat he delivered to the Tau in the Targa System. It bears not only the symbol of The Blood Ravens upon it, but the blood of ever Chapter Master and brother fell in battle since the dawn of the chapter, the saying is that the fallen brothers protect the wearer shielding him from almost certain death at the hands of the enemy.Grants a +3 Invulnerable Save

Frag & Krak Grenades

Why'd you bump the Godslpitter back up to S10? S10 is ungodly high, strength ten is crafted-by-primarch high, strength ten is super high tech, massive, vehicle mounted weapon high.

I still think a 4+ invuln to his squad is too much. Especially when it sticks around till the next assault phase (how often do you think units will be surviving a charge from this guy AND the squad he's attached to?). I'd go 5+ or go 6+ but have it be permanent.

Lord Chiasson wrote:I was thinking maybe a 215 point cost? not enough and yeah want to get a good decent point cost for my other two guys too

215 points?

Dude, the guy can potentially give a squad of 10 marines a 4+ invulnerable save. That's giving them a chance at taking down MCs... Normally the stupid and vengeful do that, not unscathed, sane squads.

And make up your mind about godsplitter. How about a MC thunderhammer doubling his strength up to a max of ten? I.e. 8?

This sentence-A two handed master-crafted Daemonhammer gifted to Gabriel by Inquistor Toth to slay the Daemon Prince Sindri on Tartarus and unfortunately opening the Maledictum releasing a far greater foe to face later in life.- is a run on sentence. We aren't writing a biography of the guy and his gear, just shorten it to "A two handed master-crafted Daemonhammer gifted to Gabriel by Inquistor Toth" or just A two handed master-crafted Daemonhammer".

Raise his points cost. 215 points for a 3+ invulnerable save, a 4+ invulnerable save to troops around him, a hell of a thunderhammer, a nice IC-killer, and more stuff I'm too lazy to write because I am tired. Let's be realistic. Will anyone even bother facing an army with Mr. Angelos?

As for the invuln save for those around him, put it at 6+but extend the time period a little. 5+ is terminator armor save, which, while the odds aren't in your favor, is still there.

And grammar pet peeve.
There is an underpriced IC over THERE.
THEIR weapons are big and nasty.
THEY'RE going to incinerate the model of Gabriel Angelos over THERE next to THEIR model case.

So raise points, dial back on the thunderhammer, raise invuln save of those around him, and solve the mystery of the extra attack. He's got an enlarged, cumbersome hammer which means he can attack more?

ok well thanks for your input but I mean dont know why your bashing me putting background into my characters wargear im just trying to give it some fluff dont think anyones had a problem but you. And yes please excuse my bad grammar ans spelling, no one has really been bothered by it but you I was guessing you would just simply get what I was trying to say, my bad. And What cost would you consider him if I lowered the warcry save to +5 and dropped God-Splitter to S 8, and its suppose to be lighter then normal thunder hammer, from the game DOW he had it in one hand and a plasma pistol. But instead of giving him the pistol I just gave him extra CC attack with the one Hammer

Current version targeted point cost 215-230, but also let me know bout the point cost with the changes I posted earlier applied.

Ok here are the changes that IMO you should make
1.A:1(2) he has a HUGE hammer, fair enough that it's a magic hammer, so maybe 1 extra attack and 3 on the charge
2. Chapter Tactics: all tactical squads get tank hunter and that's it (and even then I think it's a little OP considering it's totally free...)
3.War cry: Take a leadership test, if you fail no assault can be made. If you pass 5+inv.
4.Godsplitter:S:8. and +1 attack and that's it!
5.Cloak of the blood ravens: call it what you like (I can respect fluff, but IMHO you have artifacts out the wazoo) I think it should give a 4+ inv.
6.200 pts.
At this point I would play 40k with you.