Defiance games. Plastic (resin) SCI FI manufacturer: chinese

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**chaos0xomega**

They look passable save for the head/helmet, I may pick them up for use with tomorrows war, with a head swap.

**The Dwarf Wolf**

i wanna see the sprues, and im still waiting for BUGs, PAs and Females...

**RogueMarket**

Defiance has joined some distributors and released the information that their first boxed set for the USMC marines will be priced @ 30$ MSRP for 24 USMC marines. Prices tentative and may change upon launch.

Great price I must say ;D

**winnertakesall**

lord_blackfang wrote:My, those really are quite terrible, aren't they?

How so? I rather like them, especially the heads with the fully enclosed face.

**Kanluwen**

Per the Warstore...

PreOrder the USMC Infantry Box of 24 Figures from Defiance Games and get an EXTRA SPRUE of 2 Marines with each box set ordered! These Marines are set to land in mid-January, so order yours now! Defiance Games is making these Marines for their SciFi game Alien War.

http://www.thewarstore.com/product70701.html

Depending on how much I have leftover after the holidays, I might get a box or two and see how they are.

**kenshin620**

Kanluwen wrote:Per the Warstore...

PreOrder the USMC Infantry Box of 24 Figures from Defiance Games and get an EXTRA SPRUE of 2 Marines with each box set ordered! These Marines are set to land in mid-January, so order yours now! Defiance Games is making these Marines for their SciFi game Alien War.

http://www.thewarstore.com/product70701.html

Depending on how much I have leftover after the holidays, I might get a box or two and see how they are.

Pretty tempting

But I'm miffed no actual sprue pics yet, the current figures right now are kinda iffy

**Construct**

Blackhoof wrote:Well, they may he doing it that way, but it is implied that they are two different unit types or something.

The forums have been wiped of older posts but IIRC the female Marines are mix-and-match with their male counterparts. It's the Nordic Federation Valkyrie hardsuits that are an all-female unit.

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote: Unless that is the role that the 'hard suits' are going to be used for ie EVA's, Boarding missions, vacuum combat etc etc etc. If they function simular to the USMC of today, then the Navy would be a 'black navy' (space) with the marines being the main fighting force from those ships. They will have a intergrated combined arms approach with their own landing crafts, logistics, armour (maybe the hard suits or some kind of IFV, APC) artillery and air cover ( orbital, atmospheric or both maybe?). I would see each space shp as being 'self sufficent' in battle depending on the size of the engagment. Keeping the spirit of the MAGTF would be a great idea and would make total sence considering the distances between planets.... unless you have 'The Plot tm' needing some kind of handwavium solution so that ships can move around alot faster.

Again IIRC, the Marines are underfunded so they have only a limited number of hardsuits and send them in first to deal with emplacements etc, with their lightly-armoured brethren bringing up the rear.

scipio.au wrote:I see the weapons are railed, but there are no optics in sight. Considering the fact that every modern first-world combatant has optics on their weapons in 2011, we're supposed to look at future-space-soldiers and be quite happy that their weapons have those modern-looking rails all over them, but the designers and decision-makers all seemingly have no idea what they're actually for..

Conrad Turner wrote:Whilst I do not have any major problems with these, there is one thing I just don't like. The marine with the SAW, is that a pistol grip grenade launcher at the front? That on a long (ish) weapon with the main trigger right at the back, he'd have to look like he's playing snooker/pool (delete as appropriate) to have his hands on both grips at once.

These issues are related; whoever is sculpting the weapons is just copying wholesale from existing images and paying little, if any, heed to how they're supposed to work. (Which is not to say that whoever is sculpting the figures is paying due heed to how things are supposed to work there - witness the bizarre placement of the Marine armour - but at least there's a design process in evidence.) Earlier renders of the SAW were exact copies of the KAC ChainSAW. Now, you can't reach down and fire the M203 on that but as it was intended largely as a bit of fun, no harm done. The obvious thing would have been to replace it with a remotely-triggered grenade launcher and to add a camera on the gun and an eyepiece on the gunner. Instead it's been replaced with an exact copy of the RDA grenade launcher from Pocahontas Dances with Fern Gully and the chainsaw-foregrip removed - which means the rear grip no longer makes sense and gunner is forced into an awkward posture. As for the rifles, those are clearly copies of existing commercial AR-pattern offerings - possible KACs, possibly someone else's - and since those are usually shown on their manufacturer's websites sans optics...

Sadly, these guys seem to be carrying over all their old habits from Wargames Factory. In particular the distain for outside opinion, either openly on forums or under an NDA. If they continue as they have even the hardsuits might not be salvageable. So much wasted potential.

**Brother SRM**

Blackhoof wrote:i like the models. they arent as good as GW but very little is these days....

they should have more detailed pictures though. like a full-screen shot of all the different marines with all the different weapons.

I'd expect more stuff like that once we're a little closer to release. I'm looking forward to them too!

**Dannicus**

I believe that the company has a lot of potential, and I am looking forward to this set as well as future ones.

**killykavekommando**

A friend of mine and I are already looking into buying Panzergrenadiers and Bugs to do a head-to-head battle using Tomorrow's War ruleset

**BronzeYohn**

Xeno wrote:While I can't show you the sprue (The Defiance People don't want me building unreasonable expectations until real progress is made) I will give you a brief on its contents:

Two Rifles in two different poses (the one shone in the test mini and a aimed-sraight version)
One SAW
One Rifle with underbarrel grenade launcher
One Carbine
Two Torsos
Three legs (one of the playtesters suggesting any civilian sets have more torsos than legs so you can use up the excess).
Six heads, includind two bare, two with open face plate, and two with closed. I'm not actually all that fond of the helmet myself, but I think it looks a LOT better with the closed face plate.
Assorted bits of kit.

This list is subject to change, but I doubt it'll change much. The major issue will be how much kit they can fit; plastic minis are a bit weird to manufacture since you have to take into account plastic flow when laying out the sprue, which often limits what can be done. This is, from what I understand, the reason plastics used to have lower detail: have to maintain preasure meant it was difficult to ensure all the details would get filled in properly. That isn't as much of an issue anymore.

Oh, and I know I'm going to get in trouble for this but . . .

GERMANS!

Concept Art

Concept Art

Reference Image

The first two have been seen on Defiance's website (which should get sorted out any day now, but the other is exclusive (and I'm probably going to get yelled at, though technically they just said I wasn't allowed to show renders. Speaking of which, I've seen an early render of the legs and they will not be as skinny on the final model. The proportions will be different as well, but that's because of the heroic-scale nature of the minis.

I've also seen a similar reference image of the USMC Hardsuit and it's very, very, VERY nice. If you like the MaK suits you'll love it!

Aren't you worried that you are getting too close to the same designs that flyingdebris has already sold to other wargames companies?

The germans and the hardsuit are incredibly similar to the russians being produced by antenocetis.

**Xeno**

BronzeYohn wrote:Aren't you worried that you are getting too close to the same designs that flyingdebris has already sold to other wargames companies?

The germans and the hardsuit are incredibly similar to the russians being produced by antenocetis.

Sorry it took me a while to respond; I actually have to find the Antenociti gallery on Deviantart to find the images you were talking about.

Are you talking about these designs?

Russians:

Take a look for yourself:

Defiance Game German (concept art by Alex Iglesias):

Defiance Games USMC Hardsuit (concept art by Alex Iglesias)

**kristof65**

Construct wrote: Sadly, these guys seem to be carrying over all their old habits from Wargames Factory. In particular the distain for outside opinion, either openly on forums or under an NDA. If they continue as they have even the hardsuits might not be salvageable. So much wasted potential.

Really? Because I have found them to be very receptive to outside opinion.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BronzeYohn wrote: The germans and the hardsuit are incredibly similar to the russians being produced by antenocetis.

There are similarities, yes. But there are some distinct differences, too.

When it comes down to it, there are only so many ways to build a power armor suit that humans can wear and operate comfortably. After all, most of us humans are within a relatively narrow range of size and proportions, with two legs, two arms and a single head. So a lot of designs will have similarities.

**winnertakesall**

kristof65 wrote:
Construct wrote: Sadly, these guys seem to be carrying over all their old habits from Wargames Factory. In particular the distain for outside opinion, either openly on forums or under an NDA. If they continue as they have even the hardsuits might not be salvageable. So much wasted potential.

Really? Because I have found them to be very receptive to outside opinion.

I'm also going to have to greatly disagree with this, considering they completely scrapped a render for a full plastic kit due to the community not liking it, and based what kits they are releasing on a community survey, so in all honesty I don't think you could be further from the truth.

**Antenociti**

I am fairly well placed to be able to say that I dont consider there to be any Copyright issues here and I have let Tony @ Defiance Games know that.

Pretty much any armour fitted to a human being is going to have a large degree of overlap as design constraints mean it has to bend in the same places and protect those spaces inbetween. A medieval suit of armour will bear striking similarity to much sci-fi armour for this reason. Similarly a hard-suit, or "carapace" armour, will also share design elements which are enforced by the need to fit the human figure and the type of armour.

Alex (Flying Debris) is a great concept artist and pretty much all of his designs are excellent, yes there will be elemnts of similarity in design and style, but that does not constitue a copyright issue.

Jed Norton
Antenocitis Workshop.

--------------

I think that it would be only reasonable to allow Defiance Games a chance to get their product into the market-place before criticising them for events and practices at a different company.

People and companies deserve a chance to prove themselves and I think it would be only reasonable to let Defiance Games get their product out and judge them by that product, rather than raking over old ground that is not really pertinent to the new company and products.

We are ourselves considering stocking these figures and I would not put us in that position if i felt that the issues that bedeviled Wargames Factory were still evident.

**kristof65**

Jed: I have never dealt with your company before, though I've seen and like your many of your products. Anyway, your thoughtful reply here just sent my estimation of your company soaring up a few notches.

Stepping in to quell rumoursand speculation shows class.

**BlueDagger**

Echoing what Kristof said, kudos Jed and great attitude!

**noneoftheabove0**

I know it's basically a sin to plug another company on a company's thread. Also, it's a mortal sin to suggest that you'll be using the figures from a company with a rule set to sub in for another game's figures. The fact of the matter is that a good portion of DFG's sales will be as IG stand ins. And no IG army would be caught dead without their beloved Leman Russ, but the GW vehicles would look terrible next to the USMC, the Panzergrenadiers, and anything else that DFG has been talking about releasing. Now, I'm sure that DFG will eventually release some vehicles, and fingers crossed, they'll be as interesting as everything else they've been showing off. However, in the meanwhile, it's basically useless to try and use GW tanks. But I've been looking alot at the Antenociti trucks. They look great and the price looks even better. I've been looking into it for some time now, but especially after hearing, or reading, what they had to say, I figure it's worth giving them a little press.

http://www.antenocitisworkshop.com/hunchback-apc.html
http://www.antenocitisworkshop.com/nrf-kabardin-apc.html
http://www.antenocitisworkshop.com/nova-rus-bear-4x4-jeep.html
http://www.antenocitisworkshop.com/warthog-scout-apc.html
http://www.antenocitisworkshop.com/zebu-land-cruiser.html

Some other things I've seen are the Wheeled Chimera Conversion Kit from Chapter House Studios, which looks like it would work pretty good. Also, after seeing the Rapid Assault Vehicle from Secret Weapon, I know what will end up being my Leman Russ.

http://chapterhousestudios.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=67
http://www.secretweaponminiatures.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76&products_id=350

**Blackhoof**

they have a scout vehicle called a warthog? *raises eyebrow*

at least it looks nothing like the halo one....

if they want to name something a warthog, fine, but at least make it something completely different from the iconic halo warthog. such as a tank.

**Vain**

Blackhoof wrote:if they want to name something a warthog, fine, but at least make it something completely different from the iconic halo warthog. such as a tank.

So you want to quibble that an APC is not tank enough for your liking and reminds you more of a large jeep?

Though I would like to see a company release an attack jeep under the name of a "Chupacabra"

**Blackhoof**

it is still a scout vehicle- just an armoured one.

if it was a full-on combat vehicle i would not quibble.

**Pacific**

Blackhoof wrote:i like the models. they arent as good as GW but very little is these days....

You need to have a look around the market a bit more mate

Personally I will probably wait to see how the Mantic Corporation troopers turn out (as well as seeing some more sculpts from these guys) before I decide on anything.

**Antenociti**

Blackhoof wrote:if they want to name something a warthog, fine, but at least make it something completely different from the iconic halo warthog.

Maybe and, once again I am a fairly reliable source in this, (

) they named it after the animal and not a dinky little open-top jeep?

It is, after all, an MRAP, and not a jeep...and MRAP's are BIG:

A good name for a tank?: "Nyati". Warthogs arent exactly representative of aggressive killing-power after all...Nyati are... unstoppable .

I have some great tales about warthogs from my time in Zim, SA and various other african countries if you're ever very boar'd. (oh how bad is that pun?) Anything called a Warthog has to be ugly and have tusks though. Saying that, it is impossible to please everybody (especially wargamers) somebody once complained "Why did they name it after an aeroplane?"

Have you seen the Mk II Warthog? http://www.antenocitisworkshop.com/news/2011/09/new-28mm-scout-vehicle-wip/

...somewhat sleeker but remains ugly with 'tusks' though!

(I may well not be around to answer any others Qs mind you - I was just here to check that any issue about the Defiance Games marines are quashed - have to get back to casting now!)

**frozenwastes**

Also, a warthog is already a real minitary vehicle. Iconic or not, the name isn't exactly Bungie's property when it comes to naming military vehicles:

http://www.armyrecognition.com/united_kingdom_british_army_light_armoured_vehicle/warthog_all_terrain_protected_mobility_vehicle_technical_data_sheet_specificications_pictures.html

**dsteingass**

It's funny, I grew up in a little town called Defiance, OH and at first I thought someone there opened a game shop. That would never happen there.

**Blackhoof**

Thats a cool name for a town.

**Construct**

kristof65 wrote:Really? Because I have found them to be very receptive to outside opinion.

They're open to outside *ideas* - largely, I suspect, because they're even now vague on how most of the factions will look and play beyond taking current stereotypes and throwing them 20-minutes into the future. They're not open to outside *feedback*.

winnertakesall wrote:I'm also going to have to greatly disagree with this, considering they completely scrapped a render for a full plastic kit due to the community not liking it, and based what kits they are releasing on a community survey, so in all honesty I don't think you could be further from the truth.

Renders produced well before any of the range was near production and to which even the yes-men said 'no'? Those renders?

And look at the Marines: Useless teaser pictures and then boom, we find the sprues have been finalised and the moulds are being cut even before the first clear pictures of the sculpts are out. So much for outside opinion. You know what? I take back what I said about them operating exactly like they did at WGF; at least WGF posts its renders - in the round, no less - and ignores the resultant feedback for *weeks* before its sprues are sent off for machining.

Yes, we were asked what we thought of the Valkyrie hardsuit - but given only a mean, rough sketch devoid of detail and loose with proportion. Useless. And now we've seen just how little relation the concept art bears to the final sculpt. That wasn't asking for feedback, it was just fishing for compliments.

As for internal opinion, just look at the render. It's sloppy, unfinished and ill-proportioned. Not 'stylised'. Not 'heroic'. Just lazy. And the kicker? Its flaws are easily fixed. It's not a hard-to-modify traditional sculpt being used to create a cheap rubber mould where it's acceptable to say 'Never mind, you'll nail it next time. I've always thought Cadians were too detailed and realistic anyway', it's an easily-changed CAD model being used to create an expensive injection mould. Why not make the effort to get it right? The yes-men are doing no one any favours.

Sure, the creators seem like nice guys - but they have the combined common sense of a turnip.

**kenshin620**

Construct wrote:
And look at the Marines: Useless teaser pictures and then boom, we find the sprues have been finalised and the moulds are being cut even before the first clear pictures of the sculpts are out. So much for outside opinion. You know what? I take back what I said about them operating exactly like they did at WGF; at least WGF posts its renders - in the round, no less - and ignores the resultant feedback for *weeks* before its sprues are sent off for machining.

Hilarious but somewhat true. At least with wgf there was a false sense of hope

**Brother SRM**

I'd give Defiance the benefit of the doubt and let them actually release something before I started doomsaying.

**Absolutionis**

In Defiance's defense, they at least took people's opinions of their bugs and made them more believable. They're no longer the awkward top-heavy Centaurs they used to be.
http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/got-a-bug-problem

This is what they originally looked like:

Spoiler:

They got much flack for it and changed it.