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Made in us
Sneaky Sniper Drone





Tennessee, United States

Hmm. They fumble with Tau like they did with chaos and I'm out. I'm not liking this business about s8 ap1 broadsides. I have to rely on that 1 shot from railheads? Yeaaahhhh.

I don't find these rumors appealing at all, which after Chaos Cultists and Heldrakes book makes them even more believable for it.

I'm going to hold off painting anything else until I find out what's what. If it isn't redeemable in someway, or if they've messed with Crisis suit stats (taking away a wound, doing anything but decreasing the points/making them better) I'm Indifferent-quitting the hobby. I'm going to lug all my stuff up to the mountain, make a bonfire and throw it all in like Luke Barbied up Vader.

Urdnot Wrex is not just pleased...he's Delighted!

Enclave Tau army 4000 points (with Shadowsun side lined :( ) Red Corsairs (CSM/SM)
 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Look people worried about rumors.
Listen, we have no idea what is going to happen.
For all we know the riptide will be even better then Broadsides.

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Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets



Right behind you...

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Look people worried about rumors.
Listen, we have no idea what is going to happen.
For all we know the riptide will be even better then Broadsides.

I'm 99% sure the riptide WILL be better than the broadsides... It will also probably cost x3 what a broadside does... and it will probably have rules making it a 'must have' for 6ed so they can make money on it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/14 19:15:31


Armies in my closet:  
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Look people worried about rumors.
Listen, we have no idea what is going to happen.
For all we know the riptide will be even better then Broadsides.

The problem is why the Riptide will be better than the Broadside. If they made an awesome and expensive unit, I'd be fine with that. But nerfing a staple just to sell the new model is not a good way to do it. As before, no other Heavy weapon team got a S7 Lascannon and not many armies has had the limitations of Heavy Weaponry like Tau has.

I just thought of this too. It was mentioned that the Tau flyer would get a rail weapon, as an expensive upgrade. Is that going to be a railgun or railcannon?

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in us
Huge Hierodule





Louisiana

 Savageconvoy wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Look people worried about rumors.
Listen, we have no idea what is going to happen.
For all we know the riptide will be even better then Broadsides.

The problem is why the Riptide will be better than the Broadside. If they made an awesome and expensive unit, I'd be fine with that. But nerfing a staple just to sell the new model is not a good way to do it. As before, no other Heavy weapon team got a S7 Lascannon and not many armies has had the limitations of Heavy Weaponry like Tau has.

I just thought of this too. It was mentioned that the Tau flyer would get a rail weapon, as an expensive upgrade. Is that going to be a railgun or railcannon?


It was also mentioned by Neko on Warseer today that there would be NO flyer mounted railgun. So that either means Rail Rifle(s), Rail Cannon(s), or possibly neither. Maybe only missile pods will make it into the skies. At this point so many different "sources" are spouting off contradictory rumors and it's impossible to tell what made it into the actual book.

Going by the general feel of posts, I feel like the vespid were probably ignored in terms of what they could do both in terms of anti-MEQ and Anti-armor.

Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it. 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Sniper Drone





Tennessee, United States

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Look people worried about rumors.
Listen, we have no idea what is going to happen.
For all we know the riptide will be even better then Broadsides.


No, we don't. But it doesn't seem like we're going to get lots of build options, and is basically going to be what the 'new' Chaos Codex is, the current codex+.

I'm a little worried that suit weapons will change, so you couldn't take deathrains anymore for example. Or maybe they'll be like the new hotness obliterators and have to use a different weapon every turn (if so, rage-quit montage to Ghetto Boyz Still song)


Urdnot Wrex is not just pleased...he's Delighted!

Enclave Tau army 4000 points (with Shadowsun side lined :( ) Red Corsairs (CSM/SM)
 
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




Northampton

For all those who do rage quit I'll be more than happy to buy your Tau.

Just saying.

Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right.
 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






There better be a railgun or railcannon on the flyer. IoM can't be the only armies that get actual heavy weaponry on their flyers.

I know a lot of Non-Tau players think the rumors sound good because they probably don't have much experience with Tau, or just really want to bring some S8 AA as allies. For mono-Tau these look horrible. On an army with very limited access to special/heavy weapons and finding out they are toning down 1 of them and putting an expensive anti-tank into a slot generally filled with versatile elites is pretty unsettling. We haven't gotten rumors about any new tanks, so it looks like we're stuck with a single shot Railcannon as our only source of anti-heavy armor. In 5th and even now Tau weren't obliterating mech armies hands down. Now the strength that Tau had may be gone (Removing access to S10 and removing cover denying markerlights) well I don't see how it can be a good thing. Even if the Railcannon becomes a beam style attack, it won't be hard to simply not line up. It would honestly be thwarted in the deployment stage and since Hammerheads might not fire like fast vehicles it makes it hard to believe it will actually hit two targets in one shot.

Best way to put it is this. I have a majority of Crisis suits and Broadsides. There is a fine line between toning something down to rebalance things, and toning it way down to make a new model look better. Isn't that what happened to the Carnifex afterall? I'm curious, anxious, and excited to get a new Tau codex. But I'm also concerned, cautious, and trying to be realisitic about it.

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Sniper Drone





Tennessee, United States

Puscifer wrote:
For all those who do rage quit I'll be more than happy to buy your Tau.

Just saying.


No, mine will get smashed and burned with all the books and terrain, paint, brushes, dice everything Warhammer 40k related into the burn barrel, soaked with gasoline and lit with a flaregun.

And it's because it would be very, very cathartic. Removing a blemish of wasted time and effort from my life forever, and would allow me to move on and I dare say the more I think about it, the more fun it sounds.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/14 20:15:29


Urdnot Wrex is not just pleased...he's Delighted!

Enclave Tau army 4000 points (with Shadowsun side lined :( ) Red Corsairs (CSM/SM)
 
   
Made in us
Drone without a Controller




Baltimore, MD

Tau have deepstriking meltaguns and autocannons. Broadsides are good but they're not the entire army. Broadsides will
Likely retain their 2+ armor. Also, relying too heavily on one unit isn't going to work--especially not in a tau army.

"The goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important--not the winning" --Dr. Knizia

5000pts Tau "Crash Cadre"

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How long has farsight been gone from the HQ page?

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Made in gb
Legendary Dogfighter




Honestly you might as well wait to see the book before anyone says its not very good and then rage quit.

I waited patiently for the chaos space marines book before realising it was a pile of dung and packing them away until the next book comes out.......

Following the recent codex's I wish all you real tau players the best of luck........
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I would absolutely rather have S8 broadsides if that came with more flexibility and upgrades.

Rigid design and overcosting is the main downside of the tau codex.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/14 20:37:37


 
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




Northampton

 Rented Tritium wrote:
I would absolutely rather have S8 broadsides if that came with more flexibility and upgrades.

Rigid design and overcosting is the main downside of the tau codex.


THIS!!!

I see a lot of moaners about even the slightest change to their army even though we have no confirmation. Surely flexibility and the fact we are finally getting a new ruleset is better than nothing at all.

Oh wait...

Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

I'm ok with a gradual and steady increase in railgun power. Str8 ap1 that's twin linked for cheaper costs is fine with me if they finally give all the suits bs4 like they should have and possibly that cool pass through line effect that was rumored for railguns a year or two back where any penetrating shots get to hit another model in the same line.

We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






From Faeit212
via an anonymous source
*Broadsides are Slow and Purposeful, 2+ and T4 now.
*They are twin linked str8 ap1 railguns and can take plasma or missiles as well.
*They have a suit upgrade that let's them at the start of a shooting phase have skyfire.
*They don't have interceptor, nor do they snap fire ground targets.
*The only thing I notice is that the unit chooses to skyfire or not. So if you use split fire, you can't mix firing at ground targets and flyers easily.
*They're really, really good.
*Semi mobile and very durable. They're the only non interceptor skyfire unit in the game that can survive flyer alpha strike.
*The tears and overreactions over out of context snippets is mind-blowing.


So now Broadsides won't be able to overwatch.
Missile pods (I hope that's what they mean) would be nice.
Really really good is odd seeing as how I don't see a noticable change aside from skyfire.
2+, T4... Yet can survive a flyer alphastrike? So... You take Broadsides and your opponent isn't allowed to take Vendettas anymore.
I still don't see how they're very durable. They don't even get an invul like Terminators or Oblits.

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in us
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot




Rohnert Park

If they are S8 AP1 and not simply two individual railguns that is a deal-breaker. If a unit doesn't have rate of fire, it needs to have superior strength. If it has neither then it will ultimately be phased out in favor of more reliable options.

S8 AP1 Broadsides would be great if they shoot twice instead of being twin-linked. Otherwise, the ultimate shooting army will be outshot by most others in the AT department.

Edit: that latest update makes Broadsides sound even worse. How is concern an over-reaction when they got worse in almost every possible way (if they rumors are true of course)?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/14 21:59:52


Sell me your painted Arkanaut Ironclad!
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/781097.page 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






I think the tone down of EW is to blame for this. Can't have T5 Deamon Princes getting shot down, so now they have to remove as many S10 shots as possible.

It looks like Tau is going to be exceptionally good at fighting Tau. S8 AP1 works well at removing Crisis suits and Broadsides, so maybe they were only playtesting the army against itself.

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




It does seem really puzzling at this point. Obviously, Tau are going to need SOME long-range, high-strength shooting if Broadsides are nerfed, I can't imagine them overlooking this very obvious point. But what's it going to be? Maybe if Broadsides or new Mega-suits can be taken in Elite choices, Railheads in Heavy choice, Crisis suits in....some other choice. Can't imagine what though...

Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! 
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior





Florida

 SonicPara wrote:
If they are S8 AP1 and not simply two individual railguns that is a deal-breaker. If a unit doesn't have rate of fire, it needs to have superior strength. If it has neither then it will ultimately be phased out in favor of more reliable options.

S8 AP1 Broadsides would be great if they shoot twice instead of being twin-linked. Otherwise, the ultimate shooting army will be outshot by most others in the AT department.

Edit: that latest update makes Broadsides sound even worse. How is concern an over-reaction when they got worse in almost every possible way (if they rumors are true of course)?


Maybe it's because they're changing the dynamic of the entire army? Seriously, all of this is completely out of context with the rest of the codex, never mind that there is zero concrete evidence that these rumors are true. That aside, S8 AP1 is by no means weak, especially in an anti-aircraft role, which it seems the Broadside will excel quite nicely at. Does it limit it's usefulness against AV13/14, sure, but that's what Railheads are for (in the terms of the current codex, that is).

Seriously, all this talk of rage-quitting because of change to an army gets really old quickly. Would you rather GW just ignore the army and let us fester in all of our 4th edition glory? I know I don't. I welcome the change, and I am looking forward to employing new tactics (and possibly some great discounts from all the rage-quitters who can't handle change).

- 4300pts.
- 2500pts.
- 4500pts.
- 2000

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Regular Dakkanaut




There better be a railgun or railcannon on the flyer. IoM can't be the only armies that get actual heavy weaponry on their flyers.


^^ This to the nth power. If nothing else, I want GW to get at least one Tau flyer right. That means getting at least two shots from a real weapon (something with str of at least 8). I am not asking for an ultracheap AV12 killer gunship transport, just a flier with enough offensive punch to bring down Vendettas and Heldrakes reliably. If GW can provide on that, I am willing to overlook a lot of other shortcomings in the codex.

In regard to the light railgun, the Tau could actually benefit from some str 8 ap 1 firepower. There are a lot of targets out there, such as multiwound T4 models and monstrous creatures for which str10 ap1 shots would be no more effective against than str 8 ap 1 shots, so the option to field a larger number of lower strength shots would be welcome. However, this option should be in addition to the option of fielding several full strength railguns and it goes without saying that more shots need to be provided to compensate for the lower strength.
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






 spectreoneone wrote:

Maybe it's because they're changing the dynamic of the entire army? Seriously, all of this is completely out of context with the rest of the codex, never mind that there is zero concrete evidence that these rumors are true. That aside, S8 AP1 is by no means weak, especially in an anti-aircraft role, which it seems the Broadside will excel quite nicely at. Does it limit it's usefulness against AV13/14, sure, but that's what Railheads are for (in the terms of the current codex, that is).

Seriously, all this talk of rage-quitting because of change to an army gets really old quickly. Would you rather GW just ignore the army and let us fester in all of our 4th edition glory? I know I don't. I welcome the change, and I am looking forward to employing new tactics (and possibly some great discounts from all the rage-quitters who can't handle change).


It's all we have to go off, so we're discussing it.

S8 is not weak, no. Provided we have access to other means to deal with Armor 13+. The Hammerhead is single shot, hasn't been mentioned to come in squadrons, and there is no other unit in the HS slot.
Yes, S8 would be good against Flyers. The problem is that it appears they REMOVED OUR KEY ANTI-ARMOR WEAPON to give it to us. Was there another way? Of course! S7 skyfire missile pods or perhaps a decent Flyer.

And seriously I'm getting really tired of people just glossing over other player's concerns. Yes, the rage-quitting may be a bit extreme, but it's not necessarily unwarranted. I for one haven't mentioned it at all, but have been heavily considering it. Maybe go for a game or army where they won't make what I have useless so they can sell me a new model. I want an update and an upgrade, who wouldn't. It seems more like they're priming Tau to be a good Ally more than a stand alone army. I don't want to be 5th ed Necrons or 5th ed Tyranids, but somewhere in between.

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




 spectreoneone wrote:


Maybe it's because they're changing the dynamic of the entire army? Seriously, all of this is completely out of context with the rest of the codex, never mind that there is zero concrete evidence that these rumors are true. That aside, S8 AP1 is by no means weak, especially in an anti-aircraft role, which it seems the Broadside will excel quite nicely at. Does it limit it's usefulness against AV13/14, sure, but that's what Railheads are for (in the terms of the current codex, that is).


Railheads just don't cut it to stop massed armour. They're too few, unless they can be taken in squadrons, which I really doubt, it doesn't fit Tau at all.

I realize there's probably some sort of changed dynamic in the new book, if these rumours are true: which is good because current book is really limited in this regard. However, rumours don't seem to hint to that direction: there probably won't be any FOC trickery, which means that Railheads & Broadsides will compete from HS slots and Crisis suits from Elite slots - just like in current book. New Mega-suit won't fix this dynamic, because it will compete from same slots. And it seems unlikely that Troops or FA slots will have long-range, high-strength firepower to compensate if Broadsides are nerfed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/14 22:33:02


Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






Broadside now against an A12 Flyer.
1 BS3 twinlinked snapfiring. .333 hits
Penetrating armor 12 is a .222 pens

BS3 Twinlinked is a .75 hits
Penetrating armor 12 give .25 pens.

2.8% increase in useability. Thank you so much for this incredible buff oh glorious dice gods. I shall now shut my pesimistic mouth and embrace all that is wonderful about 40K. Somebody pass me the #$%^ Kool-aid.

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Backfire wrote:
New Mega-suit won't fix this dynamic, because it will compete from same slots.


Of course it will. The new unit will have ten STR 10 AP 1 railguns, each of which can shoot at a separate target, with skyfire and interceptor. And to ensure that it stays alive it will be a T10 W10 2++ MC. Oh yeah, and it will cost $150.

Anyway, the rumors are awful. If they're true it's yet another case of GW blatantly using poor game balance to drive sales: nerf the units that Tau players already have into uselessness, then release new overpowered kits that we have to buy to stay competitive.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Savageconvoy wrote:
Broadside now against an A12 Flyer.
1 BS3 twinlinked snapfiring. .333 hits
Penetrating armor 12 is a .222 pens

BS3 Twinlinked is a .75 hits
Penetrating armor 12 give .25 pens.

2.8% increase in useability. Thank you so much for this incredible buff oh glorious dice gods. I shall now shut my pesimistic mouth and embrace all that is wonderful about 40K. Somebody pass me the #$%^ Kool-aid.


Don't forget that you have to pay from Skyfire upgrade!

Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






Backfire wrote:

Don't forget that you have to pay from Skyfire upgrade!

Pay for the upgrade?! At the amazingly low cost of 15Pts over the original price for an almost 3% increase from the original? I'm practically stealing it. I'm just hoping they treat Firewarriors the same way. S3 Pulse rifles and Burst Cannons keep S5. Don't worry, because they'll be put into the new "Dying for your cause" roll where they just lay down and die.

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

That math is off.

Current Broadside:

1/6+((5/6)/6)=~0.306 hits

0.306*2/3=0.204 penetrating hits

New Broadside math is correct though, but that's almost a 25% increase in power and it's way cheaper than the current Broadside.


I think you need a band-aid, not Kool-aid, because you sure seem upset for getting a better AA unit cheaper (and we don't even know the specifics yet).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/14 23:01:32


For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Horrific Howling Banshee




 Savageconvoy wrote:
Broadside now against an A12 Flyer.
1 BS3 twinlinked snapfiring. .333 hits
Penetrating armor 12 is a .222 pens


While I don't agree with the change (from an anti-AV14 perspective), this isn't quite right. 1/6 + (5/6)*(1/6) = .306 hits / .204 pens

Edit: refresh first, post second!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/14 22:55:02


 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
That math is off.

Current Broadside:

1/6+((5/6)/6)=~0.306 hits

0.306*2/3=0.204 penetrating hits

New Broadside math is correct though, but that's almost a 20% increase in power and it's way cheaper than the current Broadside.


I think you need a band-aid, not Kool-aid, because you sure seem upset for getting a better AA unit cheaper (and we don't even know the specifics yet).

We were told the price was 85 points, 15 points more than the standard Broadside. So it's not way cheaper.
And so my math was off by .017. I don't see how .25 pens is worth 85 points compared to a more versatile .20 pens that also works better at everything land based.

And we're discussing what's presented. I have a feeling when we do have the codex in hand you'll be telling me to wait a few weeks till we test it all out. Then weeks after that telling me to relax because all the codex haven't been updated to 6th. Then when all the codex books are updated you'll say that we need to wait for 7th to hit before we can make a judgement call. I say again, it's what we have to go off of. I'd love to be wrong, but until something is brought up stating otherwise, this is what I'll discuss.

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
 
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