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 prowla wrote:

Mate, nah, Sisters are full-codex material. Always have been. Really, they have too many units to be a mini-dex.

Sisters with boltguns (Troop Choice)
Sisters with Heavy Weapons (Heavy Choice)
Sisters with Jet Packs (Assault Choice)
Fraternis militia (The other cannon fodder Troop choice)
Immolator (Dedicated transport)

What else is there that it truly sisters, and not just something slapped onto the codex after the 54mm Inquisitor game ?

 adamsouza wrote:

 prowla wrote:

Mate, nah, Sisters are full-codex material. Always have been. Really, they have too many units to be a mini-dex.

Sisters with boltguns (Troop Choice)
Sisters with Heavy Weapons (Heavy Choice)
Sisters with Jet Packs (Assault Choice)
Fraternis militia (The other cannon fodder Troop choice)
Immolator (Dedicated transport)

What else is there that it truly sisters, and not just something slapped onto the codex after the 54mm Inquisitor game ?

Wow, you really don't know much about the subject you're arguing about, do you?
Excorcist
Repentia
Penitent engines
Cannoness
Three of those units are highly unique with nothing else quite like them. The Cannoness really needs a multi part plastic kit like the SM captain.

 adamsouza wrote:

 prowla wrote:

Mate, nah, Sisters are full-codex material. Always have been. Really, they have too many units to be a mini-dex.

Sisters with boltguns (Troop Choice)
Sisters with Heavy Weapons (Heavy Choice)
Sisters with Jet Packs (Assault Choice)
Fraternis militia (The other cannon fodder Troop choice)
Immolator (Dedicated transport)

What else is there that it truly sisters, and not just something slapped onto the codex after the 54mm Inquisitor game ?

Penitent Engines (Heavy Support)
Exorcist (Heavy Support)
Repentia (Elite or FA?)
Special Characters such as Celestine, Palatine and others
Canoness

Lets turn it around and look at say any non Codex Chapter (Blood Angels and Dark Angels) that apparently need their own Codex even though the same could have applied to them aas Black Templars - couple of special characters, Chapter tactics an maybe a unit or two

What else is there that is truly (insert Chapter) and not just something slapped onto the codex in 5th or 6th ed to make them a bit more special

Repressors would also be great to have in codex also.

 KesaAnna wrote:
well, yeah, I think there maybe should be more of an option for helmets . ......... BUT

Ironically the example of the girl in the Stormtrooper costume shows ; when she puts on the helmet only the merest curve to the hips and structure of the knees and thighs would give you any hint of the sex. And be honest, if no one told you it was a girl, would you even notice it unless you were an art or anatomy major ? I.E . IT MIGHT AS WELL BE A GUY.

Notice it is three pictures without the helmet , and only , and finally, one picture with the helmet . A mere design choice ? If it is, it just happens to be the only reasonable, effective design choice. If it were ONLY the picture with the helmet , the whole effect would be : " Hoo Hum . What am I even looking at and why ? Just another little boy in a stormtrooper costume. "

Yeah. That is what is awesome. The first time you realize that in that big, non-gendered armor, there is a girl (i.e. Metroid ), it is an oddity. The second time you realize that in that big, non gendered armor, there is a girl (i.e. Shadowsun ), it is an oddity. The tenth time it happens, it is a trope. By the hundredth time, you will not be surprised, because you will have stop to assume non-gendered armor contain males.

 KesaAnna wrote:
There are, as far as I know, only two reasons basically to play SoB :
-- You like girls
-- You like the religious theme.

Or you like the “Obvious display of obscene wealth and bad taste in a very baroque fashion” theme.

 Vermis wrote:
Well, in reciprocation of Oxayotl's link (nice one!) and in response to this, take some time to have a browse through the Repair Her Armor tumblr.

That is where I got the Stormtrooper story from!

 MWHistorian wrote:

Wow, you really don't know much about the subject you're arguing about, do you?

I was discussing, not arguing, and I managed not to be insulting while doing it

Excorcist = not a whirlwind
Repentia = I forgot about these, as they have never interested me
Penitent engines = They don't have a sister strapped into them, always thought of them as inquisition.
Cannoness = Didn't mention her. She's a sister who happens to be a leader.

Current Sisters Codex gives them
1 Troop Choices (Battle Sisters)
2 Elite Choices (Celestian, Repentia)
3 Fast Attack (Seraphim, Dominion)
3 Heavy (Exorcist, Penitent Engine, Retributor)

not enough time to finish, need to go to work

 adamsouza wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

Wow, you really don't know much about the subject you're arguing about, do you?

I was discussing, not arguing, and I managed not to be insulting while doing it

Excorcist = not a whirlwind
Repentia = I forgot about these, as they have never interested me
Penitent engines = They don't have a sister strapped into them, always thought of them as inquisition.
Cannoness = Didn't mention her. She's a sister who happens to be a leader.

Current Sisters Codex gives them
1 Troop Choices (Battle Sisters)
2 Elite Choices (Celestian, Repentia)
3 Fast Attack (Seraphim, Dominion)
3 Heavy (Exorcist, Penitent Engine, Retributor)

not enough time to finish, need to go to work

I apologize if it came out as insulting, I meant it more in a playful teasing kind of way. I often type like I talk and tone doesn't come out very well. Sorry about that.

 adamsouza wrote:
What else is there that it truly sisters

Why is this important? As they stand right now, they have 16 different units. Pretty sure this is too many for a "mini-codex". And this is ignoring the likely possibility that an update would probably bring in entirely new units. So yeah, still not seeing how shoving them into a mini-codex makes sense.

Hmm, this reminds me a little of when people used to suggest folding the Sisters into the Inquisition.

 adamsouza wrote:
Penitent engines = They don't have a sister strapped into them, always thought of them as inquisition.

They have either Sisters or Priests in them. And they're an Ecclesiarchy thing, nothing to do with the Inquisition.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 KesaAnna wrote:
There are, as far as I know, only two reasons basically to play SoB :
-- You like girls
-- You like the religious theme.

Or you like the “Obvious display of obscene wealth and bad taste in a very baroque fashion” theme.

I'd say that the appeal of the Sisters could be simplified and split up like this:

- Their fluff
- Their aesthetics
- They're a mostly female army
- They're something different to/are more obscure than the other armies

From what I've seen, those are the main reasons that people might have in starting an SoB army.

 Troike wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Penitent engines = They don't have a sister strapped into them, always thought of them as inquisition.

They have either Sisters or Priests in them. And they're an Ecclesiarchy thing, nothing to do with the Inquisition.

I thought they were like arcoflagellants: some heretic is strapped on them.

According to the Kübler-Ross model, my opinion about the Sisters' future with GW is currently at Stage 4, slowly shifting into Stage 5.

I see no reason (anymore) to expect much in the near or even mid-term future. If Games Workshop's design process is truly governed chiefly by personal interest of the developers, which I have read once and find plausible, then the grim truth is quite simply that the Sisters currently do not have an "advocate" in the studio. Many years ago, this used to be Andy Hoare, who also wrote most of their fluff, including their elusive WD articles. And ever since he's not working there anymore Sisters have been in a drought. Coincidence? I think not.
And looking at the other minis GW is pushing out, I also just don't buy those stories about "problems with sleeves".
Sisters shifting to FW is something I consider as unlikely as it would be unpromising, too. Nothing can be gained from moving a product from one studio that is unenthusiastic about it to another that has the same opinion. What Sisters would need would be another designer like Andy who actually likes them and pushes for their representation, but waiting for that day is like waiting to win the lottery.

Some might argue it would be about time for GW to simply cease physical support for them and relegate their status to background-only much like with Arbites or Custodes, and the bitter truth is that this probably would not change much, aside from their fans finally having clarity on the issue and the possibility of some clubs/tournament then banning previous SoB rules from their tables. However, I don't really see GW doing this for the simple reason that there are still people willing to spend a considerable amount of money on something that can be provided with very little effort. How much did it cost to produce the arguably lukewarm digital-only Sisters dex, for example, and how much did it sell for? I believe GW isn't convinced of the idea of Sisters as an army anymore, but as a company they recognise that there's still some cash to be made with minimum investment. That, and the continued pseudo-existence of SoB as the unloved stepchildren of 40k spares the company from the sort of backlash they received when squatting the, well, squats.

tl;dr: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

Troike wrote:Mate, nah, Sisters are full-codex material. Always have been. Really, they have too many units to be a mini-dex.

Technically, that is easily changed. Past codices have added new units even where it wasn't necessary, future codices could remove them again. Hell, the very first rules for SoB had a single unit type (Battle Sisters) as a sort of "reinforcements"-type addition for Marine and Guard armies.
They only have three different types of non-SC minis (Sisters, Seraphim, Repentia), and it wouldn't take much brainstorming to convert Dominions, Retributors and Celestians into "upgrades" for individual minis, so that you wouldn't even need to change the fluff.

The only tricky thing about this idea is the range of "non-Sisters Sisters minis", which I believe is ironically just as large as the range of "real" Sisters by now.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Troike wrote:Just went through the Witch Hunters codex, didn't see it mentioned. It did, however, say that the helmet with the Fleur on it goes to "Sisters who have performed with exceptional courage and honour". So yeah, if it's not there then it must be from that FFG fluff that has Sisters in the Calixis Sector needing to earn their helmet.

I am pretty sure I read that somewhere though, and it was not FFG. I will check my collection.

I'm quite sure this really was just an idea by FFG. Very probably as a balancing mechanism to keep the player character's head vulnerable, even though the rest of the body is covered by power armour at Rank 1 already.
I still maintain that the Inquisitor's Handbook had a more intelligent solution, but I think you already know my opinion of the Blood of Martyrs supplement.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:I thought they were like arcoflagellants: some heretic is strapped on them.

Yes, that's what I recall as well.
(and much like Arco-flagellants, they are property of the Ecclesiarchy directly, but sometimes "on loan" to the Sisterhood)

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Troike wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Penitent engines = They don't have a sister strapped into them, always thought of them as inquisition.

They have either Sisters or Priests in them. And they're an Ecclesiarchy thing, nothing to do with the Inquisition.

I thought they were like arcoflagellants: some heretic is strapped on them.

They evidently added a female pilot as well, when I wasn't looking

I'll believe plastic Sisters are coming when I not only have one in my hands, but have already assembled, primed, and painted them, and am using them on the table.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I thought they were like arcoflagellants: some heretic is strapped on them.

Ah, I recalled it slightly wrong. They aren't necessarily Priests or SoB (but many are). But they are more notable than "some heretic", which is what slates them for going into a Penitent Engine rather than becoming an Arco-flagellant. Here's exactly what the 6E codex says on the matter:

To be a pilot of a Penitent Engine is to have committed a terrible crime, one so heinous that punishment such as imprisonment, exile, arco-flagellation or execution is deemed too lenient. Many of the unfortunates sentenced to pilot a Penitent Engine were once members of the Ecclesiarchy – priests fallen from grace or Battle Sisters who have, through failure of duty or faith, caused the deaths of their fellows.

 Lynata wrote:
then the grim truth is quite simply that the Sisters currently do not have an "advocate" in the studio.

I dunno, I think that they've got quite a few supporters in-studio, for what it's worth. Cruddace has said tyhat they're one of his favourite armies, and Kelly has expressed interest in them on a few occasions. From Jes Goodwin, I get the impression that he does seem to care about them and would want to do something good with them. Some GW person (Kelly, IIRC?) also mentioned that there's three developers who have Sisters as their main army. So I think that they do have sufficient support from those within to be looked after, once an update is put into motion.

In my view, it's just a case of the sculptors finding sufficient time to put the work needed into updating the line. And this isn't even a necessity for a new SoB release anymore, what with those non-codex releases that they're doing these days.

 Lynata wrote:
future codices could remove them again. Hell, the very first rules for SoB had a single unit type (Battle Sisters) as a sort of "reinforcements"-type addition for Marine and Guard armies.

I doubt that this would happen. GW is all about expansion now, rather than trimming things down.

 Lynata wrote:
According to the Kübler-Ross model, my opinion about the Sisters' future with GW is currently at Stage 4, slowly shifting into Stage 5.

I am in phase 2. Damn you GW.

 Melissia wrote:
I'll believe plastic Sisters are coming when I not only have one in my hands, but have already assembled, primed, and painted them, and am using them on the table.

Buying models that you will not believe in because you have not yet assembled them will require quite a lot of faith. How fitting .
Can I interest you in buying three box of 10 plastic sisters for 100€? You will actually discover their existence as soon as you have assembled them, painted them, and used them on the table.

I thought it was good that they were chosen as one of the current Armies on parade in White Dwarf?

They are? Are those army chosen from atmy send by the readers, or are they from the studio?

Currently there are 33 figures in the SoB range. --- that's more than in 4 other ranges , about the same / less than 10 more, in 4 other ranges . I've only been in the hobby about a year , but I suspect that isn't a recent development .
Considering that it's a hobby where you spend countless hours pouring over tank type variations and TO&E , and considering that it's not chainmail bikinis, and even the bulletpoint chest pieces are , often as not , obscured in the figures, and considering that the Fluer -De-lis and the Bob cut haircut are an obvious reference to Joan of Arc : A peasant teenager who could not write her own name , who never wanted to leave home, who hated being a soldier , was decidedly uncomfortable with notoriety, status , and power , but who none-the-less went out to fight , not for material riches that rot or rust away, or a life that can be miserable even for the rich, and where countless millions will, best case scenario, never live to see a better day , but for a faith that puts smiles on cripples , the lowest of the low , the damned and the outcast .......
Considering all of that , that there are 33 figures in the priciest line , and that that line has endured over a decade , says something altogether positive.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Yeah. That is what is awesome. The first time you realize that in that big, non-gendered armor, there is a girl (i.e. Metroid ), it is an oddity. The second time you realize that in that big, non gendered armor, there is a girl (i.e. Shadowsun ), it is an oddity. The tenth time it happens, it is a trope. By the hundredth time, you will not be surprised, because you will have stop to assume non-gendered armor contain males.

Apparently not , because :

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
chastity, obedience, cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the kids

If pride did not tend to arrogance , these would be things to be proud of. If we are all not living in caves and starving , it is largely due to cooks, cleaners, diaper-changers , obedient ditch-diggers, and a large contingent of old maids and old bachelors. It is an aggressive , materialistic, elitist, and dare I say MASCULINE, ethos that tends to discount these, and tends to assume the world revolves around chiefs, bosses, stars, and warlords.

In any case, fashion and military fashion are more alike than not. Playing with dolls and playing with toy soldiers are more alike than not. Obsessing over catalogs of wallpaper designs and obsessing over catalogs of TO&E are more alike than not.
And that is already the case , ideological spin or semantics not withstanding.

If the problem is distinctions, elites, exceptions, differences , preferences , etc , then SM and SoB are BOTH certainly a problem , and a problem that going co-ed won't alter either. Because co-ed it is STILL about distinctions, elites, exceptions, differences , preferences , etc in these formations. But the alternative is already present :
http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/arcadian-rifles-squad-female-pre-order
That's about as indistinct and unexceptional as it is ever going to get. Buy a male squad, mix them up together , and there you are. The girls can have a jolly time sharing the same flie-blown latrine with the guys.
Nothing to offend a genuine egalitarian.
Not to mention Tyranids . Who cares what sex a cockroach is ?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Or you like the “Obvious display of obscene wealth and bad taste in a very baroque fashion” theme.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
obscene

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
bad taste

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Sisters of Bitter

In other words you don't like them.

 Vermis wrote:
Also, 11-12 year old girls don't tend towards hourglass figures, y'know?

:

:

 KesaAnna wrote:




when she puts on the helmet only the merest curve to the hips and structure of the knees and thighs would give you any hint of the sex.

I kinda , I sorta , I did , indicate that y'know ?

" Structure of the knees and thighs " ? I've only been drawing pictures of, and photographing , people since I was about 6 . So , yeah, I notice such things.

KesaAnna, you are reading way too much into my “witty/sarcastic” signature.

 KesaAnna wrote:
Considering that it's a hobby where you spend countless hours pouring over tank type variations and TO&E

TO&E? What is that?

 KesaAnna wrote:

Spoiler:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Yeah. That is what is awesome. The first time you realize that in that big, non-gendered armor, there is a girl (i.e. Metroid ), it is an oddity. The second time you realize that in that big, non gendered armor, there is a girl (i.e. Shadowsun ), it is an oddity. The tenth time it happens, it is a trope. By the hundredth time, you will not be surprised, because you will have stop to assume non-gendered armor contain males.

Apparently not , because :

I am sorry, I do not understand what you mean. I see no link between what you say after that, and the fact once you have seen big, covering armor containing females many time, you will stop assuming those armors contains male.

 KesaAnna wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
chastity, obedience, cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the kids

If pride did not tend to arrogance , these would be things to be proud of. If we are all not living in caves and starving , it is largely due to cooks, cleaners, diaper-changers , obedient ditch-diggers, and a large contingent of old maids and old bachelors. It is an aggressive , materialistic, elitist, and dare I say MASCULINE, ethos that tends to discount these, and tends to assume the world revolves around chiefs, bosses, stars, and warlords.

I am not implying those things are not important. I am subverting the usual gender roles that assign these roles to women by assigning them to the male marines.
Actually, it started with “chastity” because it seemed to me that this was very often mentioned for female religious warriors and about never mentioned for male religious warriors. For some reason, people tend to associate female virginity with “purity” and care about it much, much more than male virginity. I find it pretty disturbing. After that, I decided to add other traits that are somehow considered feminine role for no good reason, and tackled to anything or anyone feminine (see the Sisters of Cleaning from 1d4chan, or the infamous “Make me a sandwich”).

 KesaAnna wrote:
But the alternative is already present :
http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/arcadian-rifles-squad-female-pre-order

These miniatures are very good.

 KesaAnna wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Or you like the “Obvious display of obscene wealth and bad taste in a very baroque fashion” theme.

[…]

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Sisters of Bitter

In other words you don't like them.

I like them in part because they are wrong. Because they are “well-intentioned extremists” that will do horrible things because they are think those things are right. But of course, that only works because it is fiction, I would hate them if they were real. The bad taste usually do not come from the sisters themselves, but from the rest of ecclesiarchy, imho, though.
As for the “sisters of bitter”, it is a play on word, because I am very bitter at GW for no update.

I kinda , I sorta , I did , indicate that y'know ?

" Structure of the knees and thighs " ? I've only been drawing pictures of, and photographing , people since I was about 6 . So , yeah, I notice such things.

I haven't been at it quite as long, but otherwise: me too, as it happens. What you apparently haven't noticed is that this topic isn't about 11-12yo girls.

There's a debate threatening to boil over, about masculine vs. feminine vs. neutral aspects in a whole bunch of stuff that goes beyond the purview of this topic, and that I don't have the stamina to wade into right now; especially as it's already turning into a heated semantics-arguing hofflenosh. I'm gonna leave three points:

With specific regard to bespoke, fitted storm trooper armour: I'm gonna guess it'll be more noticeable if the wearer is a full-grown woman. Maybe not face-slappingly obvious, but 'more so'.

With regard to pride in cooking, cleaning and taking care of the kids: I'll take a leaf out of the RHA tumblr's book and say that that's fine. It's that these are traditionally the only, or expected, option and role for most women. It needs mixing up, and regularly.

With regard to Sisters not having enough units for a codex: personally I think I'd rather have a clean, rather minimal list compared to some of the clutter that's come about in others, mostly due to GW shoving another new toy in there in an effort to make you buy it.

A bit more armour, I think, and that's it. Sisters get rhinos in vanilla, not-razorback and not-whirlwind flavours. Any reason they shouldn't get not-predators, not-leman-russes, or some other kind of MBT?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
They are? Are those army chosen from atmy send by the readers, or are they from the studio?

Stuido Painter Chris Bilewicz - Issue 22 of WD had the "War Diary" feature which talked about who was doing what - its intemitent but each of the waxed lyrical about thier chosen army

Just wanted to give a huge big apology to everyone over my last post concerning the Sisters of Battle.

I am sorry for posting what I posted.

The info I got was so wrong it needed an apology, the current info I got is that GW has no plans to send SoB over to FW, the new info I have is that GW will release SoB when the time is right.

At this point in time I have to be honest that I have no new info on the said release of a new SoB.

Again my humble apologies over disinformation from my last post.

 Troike wrote:
Many of the unfortunates sentenced to pilot a Penitent Engine were once members of the Ecclesiarchy – priests fallen from grace or Battle Sisters who have, through failure of duty or faith

...I had forgotten about this, actually. Seems SoB faith really is not infallible, eh?

 Achaylus72 wrote:
Just wanted to give a huge big apology to everyone over my last post concerning the Sisters of Battle.

I am sorry for posting what I posted.

The info I got was so wrong it needed an apology, the current info I got is that GW has no plans to send SoB over to FW, the new info I have is that GW will release SoB when the time is right.

At this point in time I have to be honest that I have no new info on the said release of a new SoB.

Again my humble apologies over disinformation from my last post.

Not to be mean, but no one is surprised by this.

 Achaylus72 wrote:
the new info I have is that GW will release SoB when the time is right.

Do you mean when the stars are right?

 Troike wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 KesaAnna wrote:
There are, as far as I know, only two reasons basically to play SoB :
-- You like girls
-- You like the religious theme.

Or you like the “Obvious display of obscene wealth and bad taste in a very baroque fashion” theme.

I'd say that the appeal of the Sisters could be simplified and split up like this:

- Their fluff
- Their aesthetics
- They're a mostly female army
- They're something different to/are more obscure than the other armies

From what I've seen, those are the main reasons that people might have in starting an SoB army.

Personally, I wanted Marines that were different, and Sisters of battle different was better than Dark Angels / Blood Angels different. Never liked the wolves either, so voilà.

That list pretty much covers it though. Unplayed and unknown. Many might go for the female/Aesthetics, but i think that's usually overshadowed.

 Achaylus72 wrote:
Just wanted to give a huge big apology to everyone over my last post concerning the Sisters of Battle.

I am sorry for posting what I posted.

The info I got was so wrong it needed an apology, the current info I got is that GW has no plans to send SoB over to FW, the new info I have is that GW will release SoB when the time is right.

At this point in time I have to be honest that I have no new info on the said release of a new SoB.

Again my humble apologies over disinformation from my last post.

By "Time is right" they mean "Never."

Interesting. I was there too and I did not get the impression that something SOB related was coming. Jes threw in an off-hand comment to the effect that they could probably use the new release schedule to fit something in, speculating that a single box could cover most of the options for SOB. I did not get the sense that SOB were planned. I did get the impression that they were in their thoughts and would definitely return at some point but most likely in a limited way with a couple of releases. To be fair I would imagine that a well-designed box like the scions or sternguard could cover most of the units in one go. What Jes did say unequivocally and openly was that SOB are part of the game and won't go away. He distinguished them from Squats who were written out at an early stage of the game whereas SOB are in and will stay. I got the feeling it was something they had on the back-burner and would do something with but probably a small release like the Inquisition or militarum tempestus releases.

 pretre wrote:

 Achaylus72 wrote:
Just wanted to give a huge big apology to everyone over my last post concerning the Sisters of Battle.

I am sorry for posting what I posted.

The info I got was so wrong it needed an apology, the current info I got is that GW has no plans to send SoB over to FW, the new info I have is that GW will release SoB when the time is right.

At this point in time I have to be honest that I have no new info on the said release of a new SoB.

Again my humble apologies over disinformation from my last post.

Not to be mean, but no one is surprised by this.

Yeah seriously, there's no surprise whatsoever here.

I equate "the time is right" in the same way Cthullu cultists do, by ages. It is difficult not to by cynical, but it is disheartening that plastic Sisters have joined, or even surfaced, the plastic Thunder Hawk on the believability of rumors.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
The bad taste usually do not come from the sisters themselves, but from the rest of ecclesiarchy, imho, though.

Oh, could you elaborate on this? I'm curious, what do you think makes the Sisters less distasteful than the rest of the Ecclesiarchy?

 Ashiraya wrote:
...I had forgotten about this, actually. Seems SoB faith really is not infallible, eh?

It's a Repentia type deal, wherein that lapse only drives them on to desperately seek redemption.

(Nice try, though. )