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Can't we just have The Nightbringer and Deceiver back? The whole sharding thing was ridiculous IMO. This isn't Mythender.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Can't we just have The Nightbringer and Deceiver back? The whole sharding thing was ridiculous IMO. This isn't Mythender.

I would be okay with this....

Yeah the return of Mr: I gave every single species the fear of death/the grim reaper except orks, and Mr. I'm going to co-opt every important event and make it mine, including giving Abbadon Drac'yon.

Yeah no thanks, at least do one of the new C'tan.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Can't we just have The Nightbringer and Deceiver back? The whole sharding thing was ridiculous IMO. This isn't Mythender.

You do have Nightbringer and Deceiver if you follow the suggestions in the White Dwarf article mentioned in this thread from two and a half years ago.

 adamsouza wrote:

If Canoptek Spyders make scarabs, what makes Canoptek Spyders ???????

I thought it would be the Ramans.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 Yonan wrote:

- The fluff isn't raped

Was that really necessary? Learn some bloody respect.

Not aware of the multiple usages of a word in the English language? Rape: to plunder or despoil. In your own words: "Learn some bloody English."

I hope you boycott all GW products due to their trivial use of the word murder in the space wolves codex. That's just completely abhorrent and they really should learn some respect hey? Since we're talking crimes here.

The Reintroduction of Phasing out

Kangodo wrote:
"I make jokes when I have nothing of value to say."

Except my post was of the utmost value.

 Yonan wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 Yonan wrote:

- The fluff isn't raped

Was that really necessary? Learn some bloody respect.

Not aware of the multiple usages of a word in the English language? Rape: to plunder or despoil. In your own words: "Learn some bloody English."

I hope you boycott all GW products due to their trivial use of the word murder in the space wolves codex. That's just completely abhorrent and they really should learn some respect hey? Since we're talking crimes here.

Rip in peace, thread.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Yeah the return of Mr: I gave every single species the fear of death/the grim reaper except orks, and Mr. I'm going to co-opt every important event and make it mine, including giving Abbadon Drac'yon.

Yeah no thanks, at least do one of the new C'tan.

Well, that's just like, your opinion man

Ghaz wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Can't we just have The Nightbringer and Deceiver back? The whole sharding thing was ridiculous IMO. This isn't Mythender.

You do have Nightbringer and Deceiver if you follow the suggestions in the White Dwarf article mentioned in this thread from two and a half years ago.

Nope, you have shards of C'tan. I'm talking the real deal man

*sigh* distant dreams that but float upon the wind...

And where in the 2002 codex did they say that the C'Tan weren't shards? I see nothing to indicate either way.

Seems like the current codex isn't available online at GW. We may be seeing the new codex soon.

 Ghaz wrote:
And where in the 2002 codex did they say that the C'Tan weren't shards? I see nothing to indicate either way.

Well, the Necrons never turned on the C'tan, so they were never shattered into shards. C'tan are referred to as C'tan, not shards, and named C'tan are referred to in name ("The Deceiver", "The Nightbringer",) not "Shard of x". Shards are never mentioned. Silly argument is silly.

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
And where in the 2002 codex did they say that the C'Tan weren't shards? I see nothing to indicate either way.

Well, the Necrons never turned on the C'tan, so they were never shattered into shards. C'tan are referred to as C'tan, not shards, and named C'tan are referred to in name ("The Deceiver", "The Nightbringer",) not "Shard of x". Shards are never mentioned. Silly argument is silly.

AKA: Stuck in the past with a refusal to move on for actual fluff for the army.

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
And where in the 2002 codex did they say that the C'Tan weren't shards? I see nothing to indicate either way.

Well, the Necrons never turned on the C'tan, so they were never shattered into shards. C'tan are referred to as C'tan, not shards, and named C'tan are referred to in name ("The Deceiver", "The Nightbringer",) not "Shard of x". Shards are never mentioned. Silly argument is silly.

You're making an assumption that the point of view of that codex is the only one possible. That's silly. GW writes fluff in a very much 'in universe' style and as more facts are learnt, things change. Just because the 'in universe' author of the fluff of codex didn't know about shards doesn't mean that they don't exist as the fluff isn't written to be omniscient.

I would like to see:

a nerf to tesla, no extra hits possible on snapshots at minimum.
gauss have the ability to glance anything on a 6 removed.
wraiths given a 3+ armor save, 5+ invun save.
transcendent c'tans points cost reflecting their power and small size, somewhere around 2x as many points base.
necron who are transported by flying crossants to actually crash and burn along with them.
the removal of chariots, so lords cant absorb bolter shots on the chariots, and lascannon shots onto them.
and their av 13 shield bubble dropped to av 12 at best.

 Orock wrote:
I would like to see:

a nerf to tesla, no extra hits possible on snapshots at minimum.
gauss have the ability to glance anything on a 6 removed.
wraiths given a 3+ armor save, 5+ invun save.
transcendent c'tans points cost reflecting their power and small size, somewhere around 2x as many points base.
necron who are transported by flying crossants to actually crash and burn along with them.
the removal of chariots, so lords cant absorb bolter shots on the chariots, and lascannon shots onto them.
and their av 13 shield bubble dropped to av 12 at best.

Nice try Tyranid player.

col_impact wrote:

 Orock wrote:
I would like to see:

a nerf to tesla, no extra hits possible on snapshots at minimum.
gauss have the ability to glance anything on a 6 removed.
wraiths given a 3+ armor save, 5+ invun save.
transcendent c'tans points cost reflecting their power and small size, somewhere around 2x as many points base.
necron who are transported by flying crossants to actually crash and burn along with them.
the removal of chariots, so lords cant absorb bolter shots on the chariots, and lascannon shots onto them.
and their av 13 shield bubble dropped to av 12 at best.

Nice try Tyranid player.

orks, actually. And I was serious, these are changes I would like to see, which is what the title of the thread is. How many of them come true has nothing to do with my wishes. However I would bet more of mine come true than some of the wishlisting here.

 Orock wrote:
I would like to see:

a nerf to tesla, no extra hits possible on snapshots at minimum.
gauss have the ability to glance anything on a 6 removed.
wraiths given a 3+ armor save, 5+ invun save.
transcendent c'tans points cost reflecting their power and small size, somewhere around 2x as many points base.
necron who are transported by flying crossants to actually crash and burn along with them.
the removal of chariots, so lords cant absorb bolter shots on the chariots, and lascannon shots onto them.
and their av 13 shield bubble dropped to av 12 at best.

So... you want to remove virtually everything good in the Necron book.

But you're leaving us RP... that's nice... I guess.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
And where in the 2002 codex did they say that the C'Tan weren't shards? I see nothing to indicate either way.

Well, the Necrons never turned on the C'tan, so they were never shattered into shards. C'tan are referred to as C'tan, not shards, and named C'tan are referred to in name ("The Deceiver", "The Nightbringer",) not "Shard of x". Shards are never mentioned. Silly argument is silly.

AKA: Stuck in the past with a refusal to move on for actual fluff for the army.

Ah, nice personal attack there. Welcome to the ignore list.

Ghaz wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
And where in the 2002 codex did they say that the C'Tan weren't shards? I see nothing to indicate either way.

Well, the Necrons never turned on the C'tan, so they were never shattered into shards. C'tan are referred to as C'tan, not shards, and named C'tan are referred to in name ("The Deceiver", "The Nightbringer",) not "Shard of x". Shards are never mentioned. Silly argument is silly.

You're making an assumption that the point of view of that codex is the only one possible. That's silly. GW writes fluff in a very much 'in universe' style and as more facts are learnt, things change. Just because the 'in universe' author of the fluff of codex didn't know about shards doesn't mean that they don't exist as the fluff isn't written to be omniscient.

I'm making that assumption because it's the right one. The author of the codex did not know about shards, so they didn't exist back then. This is how retconning works.

 vipoid wrote:

 Orock wrote:
I would like to see:

a nerf to tesla, no extra hits possible on snapshots at minimum.
gauss have the ability to glance anything on a 6 removed.
wraiths given a 3+ armor save, 5+ invun save.
transcendent c'tans points cost reflecting their power and small size, somewhere around 2x as many points base.
necron who are transported by flying crossants to actually crash and burn along with them.
the removal of chariots, so lords cant absorb bolter shots on the chariots, and lascannon shots onto them.
and their av 13 shield bubble dropped to av 12 at best.

So... you want to remove virtually everything good in the Necron book.

But you're leaving us RP... that's nice... I guess.

well sure, it was always dumb to have them phase out no matter how well they were doing in the mission. Again that s just me wishlisting, not predictions. On what I feel is way too good for the new improved 40k power slope. Eventually when they get back around to tau and elder I expect the same kind of treatment.

What I would like to see:

Monoliths getting their Drop Pod-esque rule back
Lychguard get a 2+ save
Flayed Ones get moved to troops
Barges to jump to 125 points & retain all their other current 'OP-ness'
Overlords to go to at least WS/BS 5
C'tan to go to WS 6, 5 Wounds, Initiative 5 with a base cost of 200, and their powers to be made cheaper
MSS to go to WS/I 1 instead of killing yourself

and a big fancy monster-type thing that wouldn't be creamed by a wraithknight or dreadknight

 liquidjoshi wrote:
I'm making that assumption because it's the right one. The author of the codex did not know about shards, so they didn't exist back then. This is how retconning works.

You didn't read a word I said, did you. If little Timmy came home from school today and just learnt about the American Civil War in History class would it be a 'retcon' to history? No. Once again, GW writes their fluff from an 'in universe' style. That means the fluff is written "... from a perspective or view from the context of a fictional world, in contrast to a perspective from the real world." That allows the fluff to be contradictory as it is written from the perspective of different beings in the universe who have different points of view and different understandings of how things are. It's not really a retcon if the Inquisitor who wrote the report that makes up the codex got it wrong due to a lack of knowledge. This in universe style of writing allows the fluff to be open-ended and changed without discarding older works or to even be contradictory. While in the strictest sense adding to the fluff could be considered a 'retcon', GW writes their fluff in a very open-ended way that allows additions or differing points of view from in universe sources. GW's fluff is not written to be omniscient, saying this is how it is and everything else is wrong.

I would love to see Necrons ally with Grey Knights and Black Templars to fight against Orks.

Litcheur wrote:
I would love to see Necrons ally with Grey Knights and Black Templars to fight against Orks.

What? No Blood Angels?

 Orock wrote:
I would like to see:

a nerf to tesla, no extra hits possible on snapshots at minimum.
gauss have the ability to glance anything on a 6 removed.
wraiths given a 3+ armor save, 5+ invun save.
transcendent c'tans points cost reflecting their power and small size, somewhere around 2x as many points base.
necron who are transported by flying crossants to actually crash and burn along with them.
the removal of chariots, so lords cant absorb bolter shots on the chariots, and lascannon shots onto them.
and their av 13 shield bubble dropped to av 12 at best.

So basically you want to nerf them into the dust? I'm guessing you play against them and not with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I genuinely hope they don't Nerf MSS but expect them too. They are the only thing we have to defend ourselves in CC atm. Sure we could throw in Obyron who always strikes last with no invuln. He could be 10x the melee beast he in now but if he can't survive till his initiative step then his points are a complete waste. From most of these suggestion lists that I see people want to take away the flavor from the army. Unless we get either a way to go toe to toe in melee with other armies besides MSS or MUCH better mid ranged weaponry to stop the enemy getting into melee then we need all the tricks that armies of the Imperium don't have.

It only makes sense that we get these sorts of 'cool toys' when the Imperium armies don't from a fluff point of view. Keep in mind that Necrons (along with Eldar and Dark Eldar) are supposed to be Millennia more advanced than the other races, yet our weapons are no more powerful (Logic is what now?).

seism85 wrote:

 Orock wrote:
I would like to see:

a nerf to tesla, no extra hits possible on snapshots at minimum.
gauss have the ability to glance anything on a 6 removed.
wraiths given a 3+ armor save, 5+ invun save.
transcendent c'tans points cost reflecting their power and small size, somewhere around 2x as many points base.
necron who are transported by flying crossants to actually crash and burn along with them.
the removal of chariots, so lords cant absorb bolter shots on the chariots, and lascannon shots onto them.
and their av 13 shield bubble dropped to av 12 at best.

So basically you want to nerf them into the dust? I'm guessing you play against them and not with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I genuinely hope they don't Nerf MSS but expect them too. They are the only thing we have to defend ourselves in CC atm. Sure we could throw in Obyron who always strikes last with no invuln. He could be 10x the melee beast he in now but if he can't survive till his initiative step then his points are a complete waste. From most of these suggestion lists that I see people want to take away the flavor from the army. Unless we get either a way to go toe to toe in melee with other armies besides MSS or MUCH better mid ranged weaponry to stop the enemy getting into melee then we need all the tricks that armies of the Imperium don't have.

It only makes sense that we get these sorts of 'cool toys' when the Imperium armies don't from a fluff point of view. Keep in mind that Necrons (along with Eldar and Dark Eldar) are supposed to be Millennia more advanced than the other races, yet our weapons are no more powerful (Logic is what now?).

So you want Necrons to have absolutely NO tactical weaknesses at all then? Close combat has traditionally been the one area Necrons were not dominating, and the 5th edition codex did much to alleviate that (wraiths, destroyer lords with MSS, war scythes, Tesla hitting 3 shots for every 1 overwatch hit). A basic Necron army already has air superiority, no fear of AV14, the best durability in the game, great midrange firepower, and some of the best mobility. Nerfing MSS, making wraiths cost more, and putting the snap shot restriction on Tesla won't impact those strengths in the least.

It's interesting to see people that seem to have a chip on their shoulder come in here and demand nerfs to an army that is good but not overpowered.

I don't think appealing to nostalgic memories of 4th edition is going to gather much support. "Hey guys remember how we used to have our army get rolled up by enemy CC units before phasing out for an auto-loss? We should return to those traditional weaknesses!"

 Orock wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Orock wrote:
I would like to see:

a nerf to tesla, no extra hits possible on snapshots at minimum.
gauss have the ability to glance anything on a 6 removed.
wraiths given a 3+ armor save, 5+ invun save.
transcendent c'tans points cost reflecting their power and small size, somewhere around 2x as many points base.
necron who are transported by flying crossants to actually crash and burn along with them.
the removal of chariots, so lords cant absorb bolter shots on the chariots, and lascannon shots onto them.
and their av 13 shield bubble dropped to av 12 at best.

Nice try Tyranid player.

orks, actually. And I was serious, these are changes I would like to see, which is what the title of the thread is. How many of them come true has nothing to do with my wishes. However I would bet more of mine come true than some of the wishlisting here.

Wow, someone gets beat a lot by Necrons..

The only thing I can see coming true in that list, is the no tesla hits on Snapshots (Ala SWs) and The T-C'tan getting a points increase.

As a question, isn't the bonus to snapshots one of the main selling points of Tesla?

If it gets removed, I'm just trying to understand why you'd ever take it over gauss.

You wouldn't take it on immortals and ABs would be far more rare. NS would become even more common as the main anti air option.