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Hey hey guys,
I didnt want to put this in the army list section because...well it doesnt have any army lists in it.

I play warhammer fantasy Warriors of Chaos, and now that I have played them for about 7 months im ready for a new army. I have narrowed my search down to Vampire counts and Dark elves as i said above. Now I am stuck, and i would very much like some help. I dont like to start an army until iv built an army list or at least heard what the army is based around.
I am in it for...
75% building, converting, painting. The more fun and more possibilities the better.
10% game play, they have to be fun to play and have some really cool rules.
5% winning. Games arnt really about winning for me the have to be fun! but winning every other game or so is always a plus. so a competitive army would rock. I am also planning on going to some tournaments so if the army can be both fun AND competitive that would be great.

I am mostly an aggressive player, liking to take the fight to my enemy not really sit in the back and wait for them, lurking behind trees. Honorable head on charges, and worrying about flankers later is what i love.
Magic is always fun, the more the better. (thats why i got to dark elf and vampire counts)

I have read over both of their codexs and as far as rules and stats go i love both of them.
so any one with any experience in either army letting me know how they play would be great. Any tips, tricks, or sample army lists would help a ton! I plan on doing how to blogs, the whole way from start to finish on either army.

Thanks very much for your time!
Johnny.

7 months and your ready for something new already?! Were they really that bad?

No no dont get me wrong, WoC are awesome their knights are where its at, but I like building and painting more then playing most of the time, and being as i have pretty much a full WoC army, its time for something new.

And no i am not loaded, i set aside amounts from my paycheck for about 3 or 4 months before i buy a new army, and then build on it over X amount of time.

I played DE in 5th ed, so I'm biased. The more bound spells you have the better, as you don't have to tap your own casting pool.

From what I've read/seen, it seems VC are all about Vampire characters, while DE are more army based.

Both are very playable at this point, but I think you'll get more of the painting aspect from DE due to the number of models, unless you just like painting skeletons/ghouls over and over.

? about your WoC - i've mulled over an all marauder army using the MoS. I know you said you liked the knights - which mark do you play currently and do you think a marauder army would work?

Thanks for your advice!

For WoC, i run knights with the mark of nurgle because its -1 to hit, both from range and cc. or i go khorne for the frenzy.

the MoS would help with the marauders from falling back every time they lose combat, but i fear that you would lack the 'hammer blow' to finish off your enemy. marauder knights are fantastic they are cheap fast and if you give them flails they hit hard in the first round, with the mark of khorne (points are getting more and more) they hit hard with multiple attacks. The marauder troops i dont think have enough strength behind them personally, i could be wrong. I will look over my codex and get back to you.
-Johnny.
thanks for your help again btw!

Johnnysigs wrote:Hey hey guys,

I am in it for...
75% building, converting, painting. The more fun and more possibilities the better.
10% game play, they have to be fun to play and have some really cool rules.
5% winning. Games arnt really about winning for me the have to be fun! but winning every other game or so is always a plus. so a competitive army would rock. I am also planning on going to some tournaments so if the army can be both fun AND competitive that would be great.

I am mostly an aggressive player, liking to take the fight to my enemy not really sit in the back and wait for them, lurking behind trees. Honorable head on charges, and worrying about flankers later is what i love.
Magic is always fun, the more the better. (thats why i got to dark elf and vampire counts)

I have small (~1,500pts.) armies for both. Dark Elves were my original Fantasy army, then I won a fully painted VC army at a GW raffle and built it up a bit. Based on your above criteria, I would recommend Vampire Counts. Here's why:

1. Conversion opportunities. Dark Elves have a pretty unique look IMO, but an army of undead can be made of damn near anything as long as they look suitably deceased. You can use Empire Knights with a skull headswap to make Black Knights, and Chaos Knights to make Blood Knights. Try doing something like that for Cold One Knights. Also, some people take great pleasure in making individualized zombie conversions, particularly based on characters from movies, like "Braveheart zombie" (blue facepaint, kilt, claymore), "suicide zombie" (handgun pointed at his head, half of which is missing), etc. If you open up to non-GW figs, the possibilities are endless. Roman legionaries for Grave Guard, maybe? With a bunch of bloody Celts for zombies?

2. Fun magic + tactics. Is that enemy "anvil" infantry block looking hard to take down? Raise a good-sized unit of zombies behind it and Dance it into the fight with a rear charge. That's still a valid option in 7th ed, right? I rarely got to pull it off but doing stuff like that always put a smile on my face, moreso than I can remember anything in my Dark Elf army doing.

3. While I'd say both need to be played aggressively, with the VC you can usually replace your casualties from a bad combat if you dominate the magic phase (which you should). If one of your Druchii units gets mauled...too bad, so sad.

Lol Thank you Noble713! That is very helpful.
For my proxy VC army list that I made up i had something like 650 - 700 points in a VL and vampires is that normal? for 2250? am i short should i take more?
If you happen to have any pointers on vampire counts armies or a quick army list you could PM me that would be very very helpful!
Right now for VC i was looking to get
2 battle forces, (40 skels, 40 zombies, 20 ghouls, 2 carts,
20 grave guard,
5 bloodknights (like you said chaos knights)
vargulf,
4-5 vampires,
vampire lord,
dire wolves x10 - 20, (low priority if im short on cash)
black knights x8 - (wood elf glade riders converted) i hate the black knight models personaly they are ugly as all sin and cost to much for what you get, even the TK's riders are only what? 25 for 8 or w/e?

thanks for your time,
-Johnny

Well, Dark Elves are farther removed from WoC than Vampire Counts if you ask me. It's all to do with the resilience of your units.

For example, in WoC, you have decent toughness and lots of armour. Dark Elves however, have a pretty much universal T3 (only Malekith breaks this, IIRC) and aren't especially noted for their armour.

Now true, your Undead troops don't get a lot in the T or Armour stakes, but you can keep bringing them back, so it's a very different type of resilience.

Overall, I'd say Dark Elves might be a better choice. They are a connesiuers conventional army. Able to compete in all phases, but due to higher points (their troops are good quality) you will find yourself having to trim out a competency somewhere when designing your list.

I wouldn't go for VC. Immune to Psychology and Cause Fear makes it a tad too easy to play them, IMHO.

I'd shoot for DE.

I go for model quality everytime, so inspite of Corsairs and Cold Ones (which are pretty good except that the Cold One tails stop you doing a second rank), I would have to say Vampires. Second only to Empire in terms of miniatures.

VC, but only for aesthetic and versatility reasons.

I enjoy undead models, and I've seen some cool undead stuff out there from various companies that I'd like another excuse to buy. Plus, Cryx is my Warmachine faction, so some of the models would be able to serve in a multi-platform role.

Rules wise, I couldn't tell ya. I don't play WH.




yet

Well blue loki, i play and its a great game system. I havnt even seen a game of warmachine how does it play? is it enjoyable? worth starting?
-Johnny.

Warmachine is a great system, though like 40k, it focuses on unit selection, though it is still highly in-depth, IMHO.

Fantasy is great as well, IMHO.

Hey guys, I have settled on VC! Thank you all for your help and input, i will do Dark Elf for my 3ed army

How ever i still need a load of help so anyone who can help with an army list, this is what i have so far ---> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/245687.page#798193

Let me know what you guys think, any suggestions welcome!

Thanks very much all,
Johnny.

You should definitely try out Warmachine if you think you would enjoy a skirmish level game with a mix of technology and magic.

As far as comparing it to WM Fantasy, that comparison does not really work at all. The scale of battle is just too different.

If you do decide to give it a spin, Warmachine v2 will be released at the beginning of next year, so that would probably be the best time to start.

Ok thanks man, if and when i do start ill keep you posted on how i feel about it!.
-Johnny.