Grey Knight Shrouding

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**Boyofdestiny205**

Just a quick question on shrouding and blast weapons. IIRC it says that when you roll the dice and you miss on the scatter dice you double the distance it scatters. With blast weapons you subtract you BS from the scatter distance. So my question is do you subtract before or after you double?

For example lets say you miss on the scatter dice and roll a 7 and your BS is 3. Is it 11 (7x2=14 14-3=11) or is it 8 (7-3=4 4x2=8)

Sorry if this has already been answered but got a game this weekend with a blast happy friend.

**Emrab**

I belive it is 7X2-3=11. However I am not totally certain on this.

**Gwar!**

The only rules we get for this are the Characteristic Modifying rules. You would Multiply, then Subtract.

Not only is that how Maths works, it's semi-rules too
I decided to actually read the bloody codex

**Boyofdestiny205**

Thats what I figured. Thanks Gawr!

**SlaveToDorkness**

Per the Shrouding rules you only double the scatter for "Barrage" (formerly known as "Guess") and Ordnance weapons, not all Blast weapons. Granted these were the only things that scattered in the edition the rules were written for.

It specifically says double the distance scattered, not the distance rolled on the dice. The scatter is 2d6-BS. so I say it's (2d6-BS) x 2.

**Gwar!**

Nurgleboy77 wrote:It specifically says double the distance scattered, not the distance rolled on the dice. The scatter is 2d6-BS. so I say it's (2d6-BS) x 2.

That is actually a very good point. Not having the codex before, I was just working on what was written in the thread. Now that I can see the codex (Read: Got off my lazy fat arse) I see now that the wording is quite specific. So, I officially agree with Nurgleboy and say that when Firing Barrage or any Ordnance Blast Weapon, you Scatter (2d6-BS)*2. Also remember that if you fail to "spot" them, normal Blast weapons cannot fire at them at all.

Interesting note:
What would happen if you Fire a Hellstrike at them? It is ordnance, but it does not use the Blast Rules (The only one IIRC). I know it just can't fire at them, but funny to think about.

**Emrab**

Yeah scratch what I said. I too actually dug out my codex and reread the rules. Oh well.

**SlaveToDorkness**

Read rules---> comment on rules question

What a novel approach! lol

**Boyofdestiny205**

Ok so re-read it the codex and noticed what nurgle boy said about barrage. I just assumed that with all blast weapons roll scatter dice now that it coverd all blast weapons.

Well we all know what happens when you assume.

Thanks Nurgleboy

**SlaveToDorkness**

Anytime.

**Gwar!**

Glad to see I now have two people who have me agreeing with them in their sigs. Makes me feel special

**SlaveToDorkness**

In an "Olympic" kinda way, maybe...

LOL

**Ghaz**

Nurgleboy77 wrote:... "Barrage" (formerly known as "Guess")...

Just a minor nitpick, but they've never been called 'Guess' weapons in the rules. They've always been 'Barrage' weapons.

**Drunkspleen**

Ghaz wrote:
Nurgleboy77 wrote:... "Barrage" (formerly known as "Guess")...

Just a minor nitpick, but they've never been called 'Guess' weapons in the rules. They've always been 'Barrage' weapons.

But they did used to be identified by having "Guess" preceding thier range, rather than the word barrage in thier profile, and often they were informally referred to as "Guess Range weapons" despite officially being "Barrage" weapons

**Ghaz**

And if they used the proper name then so many people wouldn't have trouble finding their rules in the rulebook. Guessing may have been a part of their mechanics in 3rd edition but they're still 'Barrage' weapons.

**jeffersonian000**

Pg 32 of the BRB, in the second paragraph under the Barrage entry (which is also the second paragraph on that page) details that all references to Guess Range weapons in older codeci are to be considered Barrage weapons as they are the same thing and are to be treated as such.

SJ

**Ghaz**

Actually that's not exactly what it says. From page 32 of the Warhammer 40,000 5th edition rulebook:

Note that in older Codex books barrage weapons were identified by having a G (guess) before their range... This is the same as having the word 'barrage' under their Type.

So it never says that there was a 'guess range' type of weapon and that they now count as 'barrage' weapons. What it does say is that the G that identified a 'barrage' weapon in older codices is the same as having the word 'barrage' under it's Type. The weapon's Type never changed. It's always been a 'barrage' weapon.

**jeffersonian000**

I'm not sure what you were trying to add, Ghaz, as all you did was re-state what was already posted.

SJ

**Gwar!**

jeffersonian000 wrote:I'm not sure what you were trying to add, Ghaz, as all you did was re-state what was already posted.

SJ

Ghaz is demonstrating the correct use of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_%28rhetoric%29]Tautology.

**Ghaz**

jeffersonian000 wrote:I'm not sure what you were trying to add, Ghaz, as all you did was re-state what was already posted.

SJ

No. What I posted is what the rulebook actually says. What you posted is NOT what the rulebook says at all. They never say that 'Guess Range' weapons are the same thing as Barrage weapons. They say that the G that identified Barrage weapons in older codices is the same as having 'barrage' in the weapon's Type. Two totally different things as your statement requires a Type of weapon which never existed. There are no references to anything ever called a 'Guess Range' weapon in any codex. It has always been a reference to Barrage weapons.