Jin wrote:To be fair, people on the Swap Shop should also be putting a [USA] or whatever tag on their titles, but don't.

It's annoying that people don't mention up front that they're just linking to an auction, but as it is right now, the Swap Shop isn't a huge part of Dakka and unless there's a mod actively telling people to change their thread titles and people get in the habit of it, it's not likely to happen.

Jin wrote:To be fair, people on the Swap Shop should also be putting a [USA] or whatever tag on their titles, but don't.

It's annoying that people don't mention up front that they're just linking to an auction, but as it is right now, the Swap Shop isn't a huge part of Dakka and unless there's a mod actively telling people to change their thread titles and people get in the habit of it, it's not likely to happen.

Jin wrote:Thing with the Dakka Swap Shop is that Yakface has repeatedly stated that the swap shop here is very much Caveat Emptor, and that Dakka holds no liability for bad deals on this site.

There do seem to be some strides being made to improve the Swap Shop here. The inclusion of the Reputable Traders list is one such feature. Certain rules are being put up to help facilitate things (such as the aforementioned country tags). However, Dakka is predominantly a website centered on the gaming/modelling aspect of the hobby and as such there isn't as much focus on the trading. To paraphrase posts that Yakface has made in the past, "There are other established sites dedicated to trading/selling for the real serious traders".

That being said, I'd like to repeat again that there're no Mods actively patrolling the Swap Shop (that I know of), and considering how much traffic that section of the forum is starting to get, they'd need a dedicated Moderator to look after that properly(I imagine the Mods are busy enough with the rest of the growing Dakka).

Lagduf wrote:
That doesn't mean we as a community can't come up with a set of rules and enforce them.

Self policing is the key, though it'd be nice if we had a few basic guidelines.

Here, check out these rules over at my main forum, Neo-Geo.com

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2522272&postcount=1

...

We also have four selling forums, and many members dealing with some costly items, but at the core our market is maintained by a solid set of guidelines and self policing by the community, who actively work together to solve problems, and identify scammers and timewasters. We even have a complete feedback forum, and a trading rating system.

legoburner wrote:We are talking about it in the super secret mod forum.

legoburner wrote:Excuse my random deleting of my own posts in this thread, just testing a few bits of code out in relation to this topic.

LunaHound wrote:I have a question , i live in Canada so i have to put it in there, But wont that effect people clickking ? what if they assume i only want to trade inside canada?

they can see my flag on my avatar right?

Jin wrote:Heh, I was thinking the same thing about the stickies.

Maybe we can consolidate the Tips to the Guidelines/Rules Thread?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, don't forget Ketara! He's quieter than me and GoFenris, but he's actually come up with a lot of the ideas!

Hulksmash wrote:I'm not a huge fan of the new format either. It makes nothing stand out and doesn't seem to make a huge difference on how things are listed. meh...
I do like them consolidating the painting threads though.

athba wrote:My feedback is that i would like to browse offers, be able to see worldwide trade offers despite the country of seller - if i see Orks for sale [USA] i will assume seller is not interested in WW sale - what i really hate is someone changing my post - how about a nice, friendly pm asking me to revise it????

H.B.M.C. wrote:My biggest concern is actually the order of the H and W. Wouldn't it make more sense to put W first? If people are offering money for things that means that a lot of them will start with [H]$$$, which doesn't tell you anything.

I 'spose there's arguments for both sides though.

And what about questions? I got my Ltd. Ed. Skulz AdMech unit by putting up a "Does anyone have this?" thread, and got lucky that one very generous person did have what I wanted. Under the new formatting, would I have to put:

[H]$$$, [W]AdMech Skulz Unit, OZ

That'll just get lost with all the others?

Mattlov wrote:I'm fine with it. It is fast to look through and see what is going on.

I still despise the "[H] Stuff [W] Other Stuff" titles though. Thanks for the info, buddy.

Ketara wrote:The original reason for the new format was just to make it easier to scan so people could quickly find what they were interested in.

The whole H: orks W: orks thing has been there from the beginning. Adding the country of origin in the title was a little enforced rule added later on by frazzled(?). Adding whether it was Ebay or not was one of the new updates included after some members complained about the prolifity of Ebay auctions, and what a waste of time they were.

Being rules nazis is not our intent, but we are actually just upholding the rules the swap shop has had for some time now. It's just that the mod team never had the time to moderate that sub-forum effectively, hence, the swapmods came into existence.

If you have any positive suggestions, please, contribute them. Rules are subject to change if there is enough public feedback for them. There's a Swap shop suggestions thread in the Nuts and Bolts sub-forum for any ideas you may have.

...


The country of origin being included did actually come up in the discussion between me and my compatriots, with some advocating for, and others against. It was initially going to be the first part of the post as was originally the case when the rule was introduced, however, it was put at the end of the post as a compromise to both sides.

The whole PM thing did come up as well, but at the end of the day, PMing EVERY person who posted an incorrect title would be vastly time-consuming, and not only that, the time difference between the PM being sent and the user next logging in to change it could result in it not being changed for 48 hours. The general consensus was that the rules were the rules, and that if an error was made, it should be swiftly and efficently corrected.

...

There was nothing personal in the editing of your title, it was just making it conform to the new format.

In this case, your kind of title is the exception, rather than the rule. Very few people name a straight flat out price for the goods they have, as such, that never arose when the discussion on titles was ongoing.

Everyone is interested in keeping the Swapshop running smoothly and enjoyably, us Swapmods probably more than most!-If you wanted to keep those title intact, not much of a change would be required- for example.

H: Tales of Heresy W: £3+P&P [UK]
H: Gaunts Ghost Omnibus-The Saint W:4.50+P&P [UK]

It gives slightly more information, and allows for quick concise reading. I'll admit, it causes it to lose that slightly personal touch, but for every nice title that gives all relevant info, there's ten not so nice ones that don't. As I said, you're the exception rather than the rule in this case.

Jin wrote:I'm glad that there's some discourse about the Swap Shop. We're trying to make things run smoother and more efficiently. Just keep the discussions civil, please (it's technically part of the overall Dakka rules anyways).

That being said, Ketara has explained most of the thinking process behind the rules.

Technically, they were already there to a certain extent - for the most part, we're just actually enforcing them now.

The new format was chosen to make it simple to see who has what and what they have to trade/sell. Is it pretty? No, not particularly. Does it get straight to the point? Yes. As nice as it is to have everyone come up with fun titles for their trades, ultimately, it does have a tendency of muddying up the forum and providing nebulous information about what's actually being made available to trade (not true for every case, but for enough). If you have suggestions on how to make this system better, by all means, we are all ears. After all, we're only human and we were basing it mostly off the pre-existing rules/guidelines.

As Ketara mentioned, the PMing would've taken far too long to implement the new rule, especially since many users don't actively check their inboxes on a daily basis. Apologies if the thread edits came off as unfriendly, but it really was the fastest way to roll out the guidelines and have decent conformity in the Swap Shop.

The Country Tags, as mentioned before, were a matter of debate (which I'll admit I was in favor for). Let me explain my reasoning on this:
If you are scrolling through the Swap Shop for a trade/sale, but you personally do not want to deal with International shipping, it's MUCH easier to look at the country tag and pass up on a thread that you don't want to deal with anyways, and considering how often peoples' country flag's don't necessarily reflect the country they're in, it's an extra measure to provide readily available information regarding the country. There had been suggestions previously of saying something like, [USA -will ship internationally], but that just adds clutter to thread titles. If you don't care about the tag, ignore it, and hopefully the post itself will have info. This system is also not perfect, and is up to debate - if consensus asks for it to be removed, we'll stop enforcing it - simple as that.

Honestly, I don't really like to be a hard-ass about these rules, but realistically, it's a LOT quicker to start having everyone follow at least the basic guidelines by being a little stricter to start with. Just by seeing most of the new posts , you can already see that people are starting to follow the guidelines more. If we were laxer at this start, I can assure you it would've taken a much longer time to get the swap-shop running simply.

@HBMC:
My thought on the order of the H and W is that most people scrolling down are initially interested in what other people have that they themselves might want - hence you would intrinsically look at what people had first. At least, that's how I see things. Obviously, this viewpoint isn't necessarily shared by everyone. I suppose depending on whether you're looking at this as a buyer or seller can really tint one's opinion of the matter. This issue can also be voted on.

With regard to questions, that's a tough one. We mainly set the guidelines with respect to people knowing in advance what they had and what they wanted for what they had, and not so much this scenario. If you have any suggestions, we'd love that hear them.

@Mattlov:
I'll have to apologize for some of those titles - in chaning around thread titles we just used whatever info we could quickly glean to make the titles conform to the guidelines. Sometimes the information within threads was limited.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:
The main thing I'd like to hear is precisely what was wrong with the previous format. I don't understand why anyone has to mod what used to be an open trading board. I no longer have any interest in posting the usual 'wanted' threads I used to put up.
The new format seems to be most advantageous to people trying to pawn off their stuff, as opposed to people looking up regular, casual trades for desired bits and rare minis. If Dakka is so certainly not 'the place to trade', then why the restictions? If people want to sell piles/lists of unwanted junk, why don't they go to a dedicated forum?

Arctik_Firangi wrote:What is more, I've done almost exclusively international trades on Dakka... I pay my own shipping and in the case of an outright trade, I've never had anyone complain about paying their own.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:I could add plenty of Dakka member's names to the 'reputable traders list', but as soon as that thread lifted its ugly head I knew it wouldn't end well. I can scarcely believe I was this right.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:The 'stall' thread is a good idea for a sticky, although I can already taste the spam. I'll be awaiting a good response.

Jin wrote:Hell, I would too, to be honest. Though to be honest, it'd partially be to rule the Swap Shop with an iron fist! Hurr!