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Hey guys!

Played a fun and really educational planetstrike game this weekend. I snapped a few pics, and had a nice post game chat about what the hell just happened, and had my first impressions solidify.

We played a 1500 point planetfall. I defended my apartment from the visiting eldar player, Manimal.

My brave, stalwart defenders...

company command squad 4x meltas

platoon command squad 4x flamers
infantry squad meltagun commissar
infantry squad meltagun
infantry squad meltagun
heavy weapon squad 3x autocannon

platoon command squad 4x flamers
infantry squad meltagun commissar
infantry squad meltagun
infantry squad meltagun

leman russ
leman russ
leman russ
punisher
punisher

The conniving, villainous attackers

farseer, fortune
10x warlocks, 2 emboldens, 1 enhance, 4 destructors

farseer, fortune
10x warlocks, 2 emboldens, 1 enhance, 4 destructors

10x harlequin 2x fusion blasters, shadowseer, troupe master
10x harlequin 2x fusion blasters, shadowseer, troupe master

wraithlord, wraithsword
wraithlord, wraithsword
wraithlord, wraithsword


I only managed to chase down two bastions this weekend, so that was what I set up. My outpost looked like this.


He chose the long table edge on the left.

I took machine spirit on the right bastion and trenches for the ensuing firestorm.

Manimal took dawn assault AND darken the skies. hehe

He rolled a 5 and ended up laying out 7 firestorms on me. It was pretty heavy, but not back breaking. All of my line squads were spread out in the circle between the bastions. Pro tip. Circles filled with infantry models are bad versus firestorms

I lost about 12 models and everyone went to ground. Both bastions were crew shaken.

TURN 1

Manimal picked up his dice and rolled his reserves, getting everything except one warlock unit and one wraithlord. He walked the wraithlords on as close as he could to the infantry behind the aegis line. he carefully walked his warlocks on the table and was trying very hard to stay clear of my shooting thanks to the night fight rule. His harlequin unit was right next to them. The other unit were on the extreme far side trying to stay as far away from the shooting as possible until it was time to strike. He ran a bit closer with the wraithlords and said 'go'.

I rolled for my reserves and missed one punisher and one leman russ, I confidently picked up those dice and rolled them again thanks to my comms array and failed them both again! To make things worse, the russes both got the 'adjacent edge' result, but the short range punisher managed to come on the furthest table edge! I just rolled his distance and got a 5. He just steamed on the full 11". I put one leman russ right next to the harlequins and deftly tanked shocked them without contacting the fusion pistolier. they passed. The other russ moved on a bit further away. I sacrificed its heavy flamer range so that his warlocks couldn't dual charge both my russes and smash them. I put a spotlight on the walocks, then laid out flamer and battlecannon shell. With that shooting and the other battlecannon shot I ended up killing quite a bit of them. Them not having fortune was important and I'm really glad I was able to capitalize, I am just bummed my punisher didn't get to join in. Meanwhile back at the ranch, I put my infantry meltaguns into one wraithlord and took a wound off of him.

Manimal asked me to roll for dawn assault and I nailed the 4+. Here comes the sun!




TURN 2

He gets the rest of his reserves and rolls the warlocks up right behind the two giants. He moved them up the maximum distance. There was a mixture of misplay, miscalculation, and a slight misunderstanding of the defender reaction rule, which lead Manimal to pump two flamers into the bastion, and the other wraithlord having to hold off on shooting flamers or risk having his declared shooting target not be an eligible charge target. This resulted in only one wraithlord getting to charge, and the warlocks missing their charge by a fraction of an inch. The flamers ended up being pretty devastating, however, cooking my company command squads, they failed morale and exited the bastoin running and screaming. On the far side of the table, the surviving warlocks get fortuned up and charged one leman russ The harrlequins fusion pistoled the other russ, He brought his last wraithlord in to play on that table edge, just in case the harlequins didn't deliver with their fusion.

Ok, now my bastions are free to open up! But Manimal pops his darken the skies strategem. i roll and get my last two reserves, and guess what the other damn punisher shows up on the far side of the table again! The last leman russ gets the good 'either adjacent side' roll and rolls on right behind the harlequins on the side closest to my base. I deploy my punisher on the far side, near my base and move as fast as possible to those harlequins. The other punisher moves forward and tries to get a shot off on the weakened warlock unit and misses his night fight by 1". I fire off my automated quad cannon at the unfortuned warlocks and my automated lascannons at the wounded wraithlord, killing it. I then stepped up to the line with a big 30 man unit and FRFSRFed the warlock unit and shredded it. Manimals dice were pretty awful for this turn and the next two. This was just the start of it. A farseer with a single wound left was all that survived. The fresh leman russ laid a heavy flamer over the harlequins right in front of him, and killed just one.



TURN 3

Ok, now Manimal is setting up all his distances so he'll be arriving right at my bastions on 5. He closes in, but not too close. He mentioned that he was hoping it'd still be night time. But i managed to will the sun up His wraithlord charges my big tarpit and locks them in, after killing 8 or 9 with flamers. The farseer attempts to move close enough to join the harlequin unit but is just out of range. That harelqin unit manages to weapon destroy the russes flamer and crew shake it. The other warlocks refresh fortune and make their move towards the table edge. As do the far away wraithlord and harlies.

Even with all the damage I've been doing, being the defender just feels tense, I know that if even a couple of his models live, I could lose this game. I loaded up the empty bastion with a 20 man tarpit and kept my flamer units nice and cozy waiting for the right time to pop out. My punisher moves laterally, getting the wounded warlock unit in its sights, it kills them down to just a farseer and an embolden lock. The other punisher moves towards the harlequins near the base and spots them! I think I needed an 18" and got a 20" He rolled well, but fortunately Manimal made a decent number of saves, in this situation, a decent number of saves meant he only had around 5 left I think. The automated weapons went after the approaching wraithlord and the warlocks, taking the wraithlord down to a single wound... Go, go machine spirit!




TURN 4

Time for manimal to make his final approach. The remaining warlocks near my punisher decide its time to get a kill point. They charge and smash it up. The wraithlord not in tar and the harlequins get to the spot they want to be, the wraithlord hacks at my tarpit and I pull the ripcord, killing off my commissar, yet I manage to hold, which is a concern for both of us. ( I want to shoot at him, he wants to score)

I move my shaken russ 12" to wall off the harlequins. It wasn't a very convincing wall, but it was something to do with it. I get out of the big building with my tarpit and prepare to gobble up a charge from something, and load my flamer unit into the buildings. The automated weapons pepper the small and close harlequin unit and finish off the walking wraithlord. My heavy weapons team shoots out of the firepoint of the other bastion and kills a warlock, leaving Manimal with only the farseer.



TURN 5

The wraithlord breaks free of the combat and gets intimate with the closest bastion. The harlequins on both sides fully commit, they don't have any charges, but have to get as close as possible to the objectives.

My punisher gets danger close to the harlequins and lets fly, wiping them out. My big tarpit can't quite space out a FRFSRF on the harlies and so jumps back in to the bastion, kicking out a flamer unit. But my quad cannons find their mark on the harlies closing in and pick a couple off. My heavy weapon squad manages to finish off the retreating farseer on the far side of the table. I'm looking at a wraithlord and a harlequin unit left alive. I have a 20 man tarpit and 2 5 man flamer units, and a redoubtable punisher.

we reoll and the game continues

TURN 6

I'm a little fuzzy, I think Manimal forsaw the objective tie, and so he flamed a platoon command squad with the wraithlord while staying in base contact with the bastion by putting two flamers into the bastion fire point. the harlequins moved up fully to positoni themselves to score in a future turn should they survive.

The punisher gets another crazy good spotting distance on the harlies and unloads, killing them off. I debark and move my tarpit as far away from the bastion, and load it up with the other platoon command squad, then i take a potshot at his wraithlord, putting a wound on him. he is in a sweet spot where my bastion lascannons can't see him. I've got a great set up where I can put two meltaguns into him next turn and if he charges me he won't be scoring.

We roll and the game ends.

His wraithlord is scoring one bastion and my heavy weapons squad is scoring the other. We total up the kill points and I had scored 8. While he had only scored 7.

WOW, a close win for IG.

I may not have recollected everything perfectly, but if I missed anything big then Manimal will be by shortly to correct it.

Man, I have a ton to say in analysis of the expansion and how it felt to be a defender, but I've been typing for a while now and its getting late.

I will certainly post a reply to this with additional thoughts about how to keep winning with IG, the necessity of tarpits for defense, and how, as I predicted, the use of reserves by the defender is going to be a HUGE key to victory.

Oh, and... post number 1,000!

thanks for readin!!

Given how far back Manimal deployed I have to wonder if mystics will really be needed in a defending guardsman's list. I also wonder if setting your tanks up on the field and taking camo-netting might have been worth it... Either way great report, I can't wait to pick up planet strike and have a go at it.

nice report!
i really need to get my hands on some of those bastions

Yeah nice buildings! And not too expensive, and those quad autocannons + chimera chassis = plastic hydra!

Great report, Shep. I think it bears mentioning here how you didn't glue the levels on your bastions and that they stack up pretty well without being glued. I like how that makes them even more modular!

It is nice to see the manimal escaped the clutches of Commoragh (aka the UC system) for at least a short time.

CAn't wait to get in a game with you and try this out. Planet strike is having me look at my Crimson Fists again...

Good game. Darn Eldar. It changes the play style just enough to make it different from regular 40K to be interesting. Those bastions are cool.

Looks good! I am pleasantly surprised that the automated weapons did something.

Well I'm sold on PS after hearing all the positive chatter.

Thanks for the report Shep, I can't wait to hear your analysis of S&T. (don't hold anything back!)

Ok, I've got a little time and I'm dying to get some discussion started about this, especially how you think you'll use your own codecies to attack and defend.

So, our gaming group has decided that for almost all situations, the defender will be the host of the game.

As long as the attacker writes his list up before arriving, then the defender can write his list then set up the table, before the attacker arrives, which saves a lot of time. The defender can then walk in and pick his drop zone, then the defender can deploy, then both players can pick their stratagems.

This also works well for another reason. As we discussed being the attacker, Manimal described it as being a fairly "straightforward gaming experience" He is definietely right. And what he means by that is, as the attacker you are going to make an army that is designed to maneuver and kill enemy models, those are your only two goals really. Be able to burn through tarpits, and be able to move at least moderately quickly. This isn't much different than what an army should be able to do in standard 40k. Now I have to preface that by saying that the types of units you choose, the value of transports, and the amount of units you choose are radically different from standard 40k. But really, the attackers army consctruction has very little to do with how many or how few objectives there are or how much or how little terrain there is. Mostly because you aren't privy to that information during list construction. This is perfect for the attacker coming to the defenders house.

Ok, as I was pretty focused on being the defender, that is what i took away the most information and impression from. First off, We figured out pretty much right away that the attacker has to focus on pure killiness and mobility above all else. The onus is on him to move enemy models out of the way, and bulldog his way to the objectives. The defender is winning the game when it starts, and lends itself much more to a prevent defense then to ultra-killiness.

Tarpits seem nearly mandatory, and reserves have a huge impact as well. The correlation between number of objectives and number of tarpits should be pretty much 1:1. You can and should take a fragile but deadly unit for each bastion, to either countercharge or pop out and shoot something that the tarpit will have trouble with. After that has been set up, the power move is certainly going to be using reserves to surround and choke out attacking units.

Any attacking unit that comes into play from a board edge will have to worry about defending units right away. Defenders get their reserves second, and based on their system of determining table edge, they have a 66% chance of being able to come on RIGHT behind an enemy. 33% chance to use their own table edge and a 33% chance to use either adjacent table edges. The only real defense against that is for the attacker to chose a long table edge as his DZ and bring table edge reserves on in the middle of that table edge. This gives an advantage to a defender with reserves, making them want a certain table edge, and controlling where they enter from.

Of course attackers can deep strike into play as well, but thats where indomitable fortress missile silos, quad cannons, krak traps and a healthy doses of razor wire can pick at units before they've had their chance to influence the game.

As a defender you also don't have to fill your list with much if any long range transport kill. As every bastion comes with 4 lascannons (each facing different sides) and a turret mounted quad-cannon, you only need to worry about heavy tanks that get close. The defender is unlikely to take heavy tanks that don't plan to close in on bastions. Every point he spends on a unit that isn't comfortable being very close to enemy models is one more point you don't have to kill to win. So really some meltaguns (or chainfists) is all you need for anti-tank.

Ultimately, I can break down the three elements that all defenders need in their list to win. I'd LOVE it if people would tell me what in their army they think can fill these roles. They are.

The tarpit. Every army needs something that can physically prevent models from getting into base to base contact with a bastion. Just about every amry has something like this. You need a lot of models to physically seal off the approach, and these models need to be durable and have a morale ability that keeps them in the fight. For this game I used stubborn infantry blobs. Were i playing space marines I would use tactical marines with one of the special characters that provides them with the stubborn rule. or the legion of the damned would be an excellent tarpit defender as well.

the "back cracker". Inside the bastion should be a 'decider' unit. Either something that wins combat handily, or a bunch of meltaguns. When a land raider attacker makes it to your bastion and begins ramming it to get into base to base, there might not be anythign your tarpit can do about it. Thats when your 4 meltagun company command squad, or your meganob unit pops out of the bastion and clears it off. The cool thing about this unit is that survivability is unimportant. This is an opportunity to take a killer unit and save points on its survivability options. For IG, these were my flamer and melta command squads. For space marines, techmarines with combat servitors, command squads, honor guards and vanguard without jump packs would do this very well.

The reserve. Once there is one back cracker and one tarpit per objective, you can and should start buying these guys. What you need here is speed and/or long range shooting. I purposely stayed away from any shooting that can drift onto friendly models ESPECIALLY stuff that can drift onto, and hurt a bastion. Attacking models are going to be close to your bastions and tarits almost immediately, so collateral damage is very liekly. Thats why i took the punishers. I would have taken exterminators instead of standard leman russes, but my turrets haven't come in yet. These reserves could be 'sticky' as well. A close combat unit that can charge an attacking unit and beat up on it for two turns before being dealt with would be an excellent way of slowing down the attackers. In my game, Manimal HAD to turn around and kill off my russes, he couldn't just let me follow him all game and unload. This made him move backwards, anythign that can force that will be awesome. These reserve units let you steal the initiative, or "attack the attacker". not using this advantage is almost certainly going to guarantee a loss against an experienced attacker. For IG i obviously favored the leman russ, for space marines I think assault squads with power fists, scouts in storms, terminators in land raiders, or predators would be great reserves.

Let's hear about what you'd use for your three lynchpin units.

We talked a lot about what makes a good attacker unit and what doesn't, and how people who don't like getting close are going to have a hard time attacking. I'll give Manimal a chance to come in here and talk attacker strategies, if he doesn't make it over here in a bit and I have some more time, I'll talk about what was working for him and what (I think) wasn't.

I like your space maring picks for the back breakers (HG/CS/VG/TM+Servs). power weaps/fists/claws all seem great in this role, but guns are probably a waste due to most targets ending up tarpitted (you hope)

I think for tarpits you dont have anything incredible that is hard to kill and/or super cheap (scarabs, conscripts, kroot, etc), But TH/SS termies are always hard to crack. Anything in power armor can also be decent, but I am really excited about ironclads in many situations. In most cases enemies will need PF/PK to take them down in CC and they can definately hold big squads up while you bring up reserves and/or roll out your back breakers. Add their ability to ruin vehicles of any variety, and they seem like a solid option for patroling out front of the bastions.



For reserves I like assault squads, speeders, and bikes, but i am also pretty interested in CC scouts in storms. Super mobile and can bring multimelta + fist. They can assault after disembarking and the -2 LD if they win the combat that turn can be brutal (i am imagining multiassaults on tarpitted units).

Tacs should be decent in the bastions with plas or melta + a HW. I can also imagine ML devs being awesome standing on the roof and bombing away.

I think from a defender point of view the marine tanks look a bit underwhelming. but there may be something to be said for the short range tanks like the vindi and redeemer (HF razorbacks? i dunno...)

Okay I'd lke to expand on these choices when I get the chance, but for now just let me say;

'Tarpit'
DE -This is a tough one, I'm think units of grotesques might be of value. DE has a big problem with survivability and moral, these seem like the best choice as wyches are better served being offensive. wyches definatly can't sit around in the open (or even in cover) and expect to be on the board very long, Grotesques would hang a lot longer.

'Cron- I'm saying scarabs right here and now, in fact they are perfect for this role with the fearless, speed, and survivability in cover against shooting attacks

'Nid -Large squads of spinegaunts w/o WoN probably two at 28 if it's probable to deploy them.

'Backcracker'

DE -A tricked out boss with a reutine of your choice and x2 blasters in the squad

'Cron -I'm going to say a C'tan, they are the only reliable CC asset availible to the 'crons

'Nid- Lots of options here, I'm thinking stealers since they are easier to hide than a MC

'Reserve'

DE -Ravagers Ravagers ravagers! At least one with x3 DL for rear/side armor instagibs on tanks

'Cron- I'm gonna say destroyers, lots of them, they have the speed and range to start softening up whatever target seems important

'Nid- I'm thinking DSing Dakka Fex's or flyrant, although I wish you could field multiple flyrants, as this seems like the best choice.

My 0.02 cents for now

Count Bonchula wrote:I think for tarpits you dont have anything incredible that is hard to kill and/or super cheap (scarabs, conscripts, kroot, etc), But TH/SS termies are always hard to crack. Anything in power armor can also be decent, but I am really excited about ironclads in many situations. In most cases enemies will need PF/PK to take them down in CC and they can definately hold big squads up while you bring up reserves and/or roll out your back breakers. Add their ability to ruin vehicles of any variety, and they seem like a solid option for patroling out front of the bastions.

I like assault termies too for tarpitting, but I'm a bit concerned that their tiny footprint can't physically block everything you might face. I have to caution you about using ironclads for defense. They will be target #1 for firestorms, they can't enter bastions so they are pretty much dead meat. They would need to be held in reserve, and are a little slow for that duty. However, on the other side of the mission, ironclads in drop pods are OMG good. I forsee them dying to a lot of the bastion breaking weaponry that the attackers will bring, unless they themselves are padded by infantry.

Count Bonchula wrote:For reserves I like assault squads, speeders, and bikes, but i am also pretty interested in CC scouts in storms. Super mobile and can bring multimelta + fist. They can assault after disembarking and the -2 LD if they win the combat that turn can be brutal (i am imagining multiassaults on tarpitted units).

Totally, everything about the scouts in storm screams 'counter-attack'. Speeders as a reserve might be ok. Especially if your defense is mounted with some kind of teleport homer system.

Count Bonchula wrote:Tacs should be decent in the bastions with plas or melta + a HW. I can also imagine ML devs being awesome standing on the roof and bombing away.

I thought about devs for a while and then just ultimately figured that with the automated weapons, and with your tarpits, that CC is probably a better way for marines to fend off a bastion attack. However, using a 4x multi0melta dev squad with a power fist as your 'tarpit' might be a useful replacement to a tac squad. If you get stuck in combat, use the CC monster hiding in the bastion to break them free.

Count Bonchula wrote:I think from a defender point of view the marine tanks look a bit underwhelming. but there may be something to be said for the short range tanks like the vindi and redeemer (HF razorbacks? i dunno...)

Just remember that if you are using the tanks as reserves (an absolute requirement thanks to how easy they die to firestorms) that they'll be hitting rear armor.

@ssevenn: I can actually imagine pariahs being pretty strong backbreakers for crons. I normally hate that unit, but I can imagine them being an absolute murderball when they come pouring out of whatever the cron equivalent of a bastion is

@shep: good point with the firestorms. I totally wasnt thinking the pain those will put on ironclads you have sitting out front after deployment.

I dont know how big a deal i think the termy footprint will turn out to be. I dont think 5 termies has that much smaller a footprint than a 10man tac squad. Big bases + smart spacing should still let them hold down a pretty reasonable area (up until they are in combat and have all consolidated into the CC ball of course).

GW screwed up my advance order on the book (sent me another guard dex instead), so im not 100% clear on all the finer rules (like where reserves come from for defender, exactly how the static bastion weaposn work etc), so im not real clear on what you mean about the tanks coming from reserve. I definately agree about them starting on table though.

What type of balance are you predicting between the portion of your list that starts on board and the part in reserve from the defender position? (lots of variables obviously, but for 2-3 bastions at a normal points value)

I think mine will probably break down like this -

Daemons -
Tarpit - papa nurgles pride and joy - plaguebearers and nurglings.
Backbreakers - Daemonettes may actually come out of their carrying cases! Bloodletters are obviously going to be very good in sweeping infantry away from the walls. While not truly "backbreakers" masque and pavane really come into their own as defender you know that you will get last turn and hiding her in an armor 14 bastion pushing things back makes sense, especially in those last 3 turns.
Reserves - Soulgrinders of course. Keeper of Secrets looks really good in this roll as it is nails in CC and most attackers will not be huge units so the high attacks won't be too much threat. And as mentioned above, another pavane is a good thing.

Crimson Fists
Tarpit
Good ol' tac marines will fit this bill nicely.

Backbreakers
I am liking Vanguard Vets without packs - packing specialist weaponry and their high number of attacks I think they will really do well here.

Reserves
Land Raider redeemer - high strength very killy flamers into packed enemies? Yes please!

Oh, and as an aside, now that I have read through much of the fluff in Planetstrike, I am feeling like it might be fun (and appropriate) to house rule playtest Daemon defenders starting on the table rather than using their usual deployment.

@ssevenn: I can actually imagine pariahs being pretty strong backbreakers for crons. I normally hate that unit, but I can imagine them being an absolute murderball when they come pouring out of whatever the cron equivalent of a bastion is

While I agree that pariahs would work nicely in that role(backbreaker) they are still over costed for what you get in performance. When I get the PS book I'll run them and see how it goes.

@Somicide, yeah Pavane on last turn (as defender), especially THREE from one model is going to be amazing. Obviously it comes down to killing all the mini-lash stuff ASAP. (Thank god she's not an IC)

@7: yeah pariahs are still a lot of points, but as you pointed out before, beyond the c'tan crons dont have a lot of amazing CC units.

@somni: pavane is brutal from a defense standpoint. and while masque isnt an IC, you could always just put her in a bastion alone and let her totally abuse the firepoints.

Flamers of T are also going to be completely nuts in PS with all the close quarters action. I dont want to imagine how ugly trying to put models in b2b with a bastion that has flamers on the roof would be. may not be worth losing a safe room for your smashy CC units, but would be amusing I think.

I was thinking of escape hatches for flamers would be absolutely brutal.

Might have to bring out the old Ogryn for a good tarpit. Grey Knights might be a nice touch for the guard as well.

I think fiends might beat out flamers because of their ability to fleet and charge on the deepstrike. But with 6 elite choices, a mix of both might work. It would be expensive and not very durable/resilient to spam both choices but the damage you could produce would be nuts. Throw a DP or GD in there for for CC walkers and you're good.

@somnicide: YES!

Cool batrep!!! Good to see the details of a planetstrike game.

For my SOB Planetstrike has motivated me to start getting some inducted IG together to help man the barricades/bastions so my sisters can act as second line shock troops to plug holes in the perimeter and bring their faith to bear where needed.

I'm thinking arcos and penitent engines are gonna be fun because if the attacker drops close these guys ar into him quickly and can do some damage with all those power weapon and DCCW attacks, etc.

Seraphim will be nice reserves to drop down on juicy attacking targets as well me thinks, and dominions with meltas or flamers will be able to repel enemy that get too close be they walkers or massed infantry, etc.

Hope to get my first Planetstrike game in this weekend and try it out...

I'm still not sure about daemons being able to assault the turn they come in. I think they are getting enough of an advantage getting their daemonic assault turn 1 and then rolling a 3+ for everything.

I just think it might be too much, but I won't be sure until I get some games in. I know of one game someone got in with daemons as the assaulters and they played with that they can assault and it was a massacre.

@Shep somewhere in here someone talked about the bastion having 4 las cannons? I thought it only came with 4 heavy bolters and then one lascannon, or do you get to choose? I haven't picked up a copy yet, only flipped through one at the store.

Also you talked about going to ground against the firestorm attacks. Did you guys decide that if you have troops inside the wall but outside the bastion that counts as area terrain? Otherwise unless the storm landed on the other side of the wall you would get no save right?

I'm not sure I completely agree with the tarpit idea. I think it has some merit, depending on army. I think if you have good close combat potential then tarpit is good but if you don't I don't think it's a viable option. I think if you shoot better than you assault you probably want to speed bump. Protect the bastion from the initial assault, die, and then let the rest of the army roast whats out in front. Some examples of this would be to use daemonettes as a speed bump and then jump out of a bastion with flamers. Or like Shep had in his list Command squads with 4x flamers and 4x melta, you are going to be able to use those things if you are locked in hth.

Count Bonchula wrote:I dont know how big a deal i think the termy footprint will turn out to be. I dont think 5 termies has that much smaller a footprint than a 10man tac squad. Big bases + smart spacing should still let them hold down a pretty reasonable area (up until they are in combat and have all consolidated into the CC ball of course).

What type of balance are you predicting between the portion of your list that starts on board and the part in reserve from the defender position? (lots of variables obviously, but for 2-3 bastions at a normal points value)

Yeah termies are probably fine. For tarpit to work, you need to actually stop the initial contact to the bastion, otherwise you better jsut be able to win the combat. After thinking about the nasty face smashing units attackers will probably bring, I wouldn't count on it, even with terminators. I think my next defense I'm going to try is 2 bastions in a corner, 2 bastions in the opposite corner, and an indomitable fortress in the middle. The corner bases will each have a PCS a CCS and a blob, the middle will probably be grey knights for tarpit and GKT and straken for bastion dwellers. That's gonna cost me quite a bit in points to man those bastions. 600 points just in bastion residents, probably 800 in tarpits. So I'll have about 600 points left for reserves. This set up gets me a LOT of automated weapons. And also up to four of the dreaded 'missile silo' automated weapon.

Somnicide wrote:I think mine will probably break down like this -

Daemons -
Tarpit - papa nurgles pride and joy - plaguebearers and nurglings.
Backbreakers - Daemonettes may actually come out of their carrying cases! Bloodletters are obviously going to be very good in sweeping infantry away from the walls. While not truly "backbreakers" masque and pavane really come into their own as defender you know that you will get last turn and hiding her in an armor 14 bastion pushing things back makes sense, especially in those last 3 turns.
Reserves - Soulgrinders of course. Keeper of Secrets looks really good in this roll as it is nails in CC and most attackers will not be huge units so the high attacks won't be too much threat. And as mentioned above, another pavane is a good thing.

Oh, and as an aside, now that I have read through much of the fluff in Planetstrike, I am feeling like it might be fun (and appropriate) to house rule playtest Daemon defenders starting on the table rather than using their usual deployment.

I can't believe they didn't have a defender stratagem for starting on the table. Or being able to deep strike scatter free nearby or into a bastion. Fan made stratagem incoming As to your demon defense plan. Sounds pretty good.

Somnicide wrote:I was thinking of escape hatches for flamers would be absolutely brutal.

But quite illegal. Infantry only in bastions please.

Sha1emade wrote:Might have to bring out the old Ogryn for a good tarpit. Grey Knights might be a nice touch for the guard as well.

Absolutely. Yarrick starting attached to an ogryn unit, and being able to duck into a nearby bastion to keep his leadership bubble over them, or come out and mae them extra choppy is sweet.

Warmaster wrote:I'm still not sure about daemons being able to assault the turn they come in. I think they are getting enough of an advantage getting their daemonic assault turn 1 and then rolling a 3+ for everything.

I just think it might be too much, but I won't be sure until I get some games in. I know of one game someone got in with daemons as the assaulters and they played with that they can assault and it was a massacre.

Only one way to find out. Somnicide? Bring your demons over.

Warmaster wrote:@Shep somewhere in here someone talked about the bastion having 4 las cannons? I thought it only came with 4 heavy bolters and then one lascannon, or do you get to choose? I haven't picked up a copy yet, only flipped through one at the store.

Each bastion has the choice of either heavy bolter or lascannon for its four automated weapons. The kit comes with only heavy bolters. The bastion comes with an icarus lascannon as well which is confusing, because that is an additional weapon, available to the defender along with the quad-cannon, one for each objective. Mine were mounted on the bastion itself which is optional. So each of my bastions had 4 lascannons (one facing each direction, not as devastating as it sounds) and a quad-cannon.

Warmaster wrote:Also you talked about going to ground against the firestorm attacks. Did you guys decide that if you have troops inside the wall but outside the bastion that counts as area terrain? Otherwise unless the storm landed on the other side of the wall you would get no save right?

Correct. I took a stratagem called trench lines, which lets all models in the open have a 5+ cover save, and I then went to ground to improve that to a 4+. As I went to bed last night i dreamed up legal way to always get the 2+ save against fire storm. On deployment, place exactly half of the models in the unit on one side of the defense line, with the other half right there on the other. Now no matter where the hole is, half of the unit is obscured by defense line. If you went to ground, then you're getting a 2+. Once the game starts, hop back over the wall.

Warmaster wrote:I'm not sure I completely agree with the tarpit idea. I think it has some merit, depending on army. I think if you have good close combat potential then tarpit is good but if you don't I don't think it's a viable option. I think if you shoot better than you assault you probably want to speed bump. Protect the bastion from the initial assault, die, and then let the rest of the army roast whats out in front. Some examples of this would be to use daemonettes as a speed bump and then jump out of a bastion with flamers. Or like Shep had in his list Command squads with 4x flamers and 4x melta, you are going to be able to use those things if you are locked in hth.

The problem with being the defender is, its not enough to kill 9 out of 10 models in an attacking unit. You need to essentially table him just to scrape by a win. As well as I did against Manimal, I was a turn away from losing. He certainly wasn't going to die with his wraithlord to my 2 BS3 meltas, and he could have possibly scored 2 KP just by laying out his flamers over 2 command squads.

So if you are confident in your ability to table an army after eating around 10 basilisk shots, then skip the tarpit. You may have to if you are playing an army that doesn't actually have something decent in that regard. But this is all based on my experience playing as IG. So it might not always be the same. For IG, jumping out with a pCS flamer unit would be great, I'd kill 7 out of the 10 genestealers, then the genestealers would kill me. Then if i didn't have anything nearby to come save me, those 3 genestealers pick up an objective. They can even climb in to it and have their own land raider. I think physical obstruction and slowing the game dowsn are key defender strategies. You are starting the game winning, but ties go to the attacker on your objectives. They are built to kill, they don't have troops, or the necessity to settle for anything less than killing off your army. I think fighting off an attacker conventionally sounds rather difficult.

SsevenN wrote:Okay I'd lke to expand on these choices when I get the chance, but for now just let me say;

'Tarpit'
DE -This is a tough one, I'm think units of grotesques might be of value. DE has a big problem with survivability and moral, these seem like the best choice as wyches are better served being offensive. wyches definatly can't sit around in the open (or even in cover) and expect to be on the board very long, Grotesques would hang a lot longer.

'Cron- I'm saying scarabs right here and now, in fact they are perfect for this role with the fearless, speed, and survivability in cover against shooting attacks

'Nid -Large squads of spinegaunts w/o WoN probably two at 28 if it's probable to deploy them.

'Backcracker'

DE -A tricked out boss with a reutine of your choice and x2 blasters in the squad

'Cron -I'm going to say a C'tan, they are the only reliable CC asset availible to the 'crons

'Nid- Lots of options here, I'm thinking stealers since they are easier to hide than a MC

'Reserve'

DE -Ravagers Ravagers ravagers! At least one with x3 DL for rear/side armor instagibs on tanks

'Cron- I'm gonna say destroyers, lots of them, they have the speed and range to start softening up whatever target seems important

'Nid- I'm thinking DSing Dakka Fex's or flyrant, although I wish you could field multiple flyrants, as this seems like the best choice.

My 0.02 cents for now

DE have it both pretty tough and pretty easy. I think for DE you just skip out on the tarpit idea. Put a choppy HQ in each bastion, and have a fast killer army in reserve. It will be extremely tough to win, but DE is really only built to go after people. So the more reserves you have the better. Really you are just letting the attacker have the bastions, and then taking them back from him with reserves.

For necrons, they are pretty close to being awesome defenders. Unfortunately, scarabs are insanely vulnerable to firestorm. One failed save loses you 2 BASES of scarabs. Other wise they are excellent tarpits. I think I'd keep them in reserve, and use them to tie attackers up before they can get to bastions. necrons don't really have a back cracker unit either. Since the ctan can't legally go in a bastion. I think until they get a new book (maybe next year) I think they are going to play like dark eldar. Defend your bastions very lightly, then roll in behind them with destroyers and heavy destroyers.

Nids are just excellent defenders straight up. 32 model fearless spinegaunts? Warriors in bastions to provide synapse and counter charge? Raveners, hormagaunts, flyrants entering play BEHIND the enemy? Yikes

unfortunately, only attackers get the extra cool deep striking IIRC. So your dakkafexes will have to walk on from a table edge, or eat a lot of firestorm. I think they are more of an attacker unit than a defender.

After taking to Shep, it sounds like for CSM I will end up with some flavoring of:

Lash Sorcs (get off my propertah!)

Plague Marines (tarpit)

Obliterators (backbreakers, park these guys in the bastions for that swiss army knife goodness)

Raptors? (reserves, for the behind your back attack... almost sounds backbreakerish too)

Unfortunately, as defender its looking like I am not really getting much variety from my normal 40k list, other than the addition of Raptors.. yeah Raptors might actually have some value in Planetstrike.... looking forward to testing.

With 6 HS slots, I still want to put together a ridiculous 18 Oblit Defender list

I think CSM in attacker role will really allow me to change things up... atleast no plague marines probably.

Thanks for the tips shep, that's what I get for commenting before I've read the rules.

Somehow I missed the post on a battle report for my own game.
I was the attacker in Shep’s battle report and here are my impressions on being the attacker. I will try to keep it general and not talk specifically about eldar units.

1. What is the general strategy of the attacker? The defender will take some combination of heavily guarded objectives (objectives that are close together with most of the defenders army protecting it) and widely spaced lightly defended objectives (something like a tar pit and a shooting support unit). After seeing the table you must figure out your plan of attack. If there are enough objectives in the heavily guarded area to win you should ignore the widely spaced objectives. If the objectives are equally distributed you must figure out if you are fast enough (both in terms of speed and killing power) to overwhelm the lightly defended objectives with most of your army by turn 5. If you are not fast enough you should go for the heavily defended objectives keeping in mind that kill points will determine the winner (assuming you are successful in taking the heavily defended objectives) If the objectives are mostly spread out you will either have to split your army up (into the minimum number of objectives to win e.g. with 5 objectives it would be 3 parts) or be fast enough (both in speed and killing power) to overwhelm the objective and move on to another objective enough times to have enough objectives to win by turn 5 while not getting tied up by the defenders reserves .

2. What kind of units does the attacker need? Since the attacker won’t know in advance how many objectives there will be and how spread out they will be you should build your list in blocks. Each block should have a way to kill a tar pit, and destroy a bastion (an example of a space marine block is a librarian with gate of infinity, a unit of assault terminators and a land speeder with meltagun and heavy flamer).