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Ok so I ran into a situation Friday night. I'm at the FLGS waiting for a table to free up. A local TFG asks if he can get my opinion on something, "no problem", I reply. He then goes on to ask if I think Drop Pods (and/or Dedicated Transports) should count as kill points. I reply (as I believe most people would) that yes Dedicated Transports count towards KPs if destroyed. They are independent units and fulfill all requirements to be considered a unit. Cut and dry I believe. Now you have to understand that this particular TFG likes to stir up crap, doesn't matter what he'll argue about it. We almost didn't play a 2000pt game of Fantasy once because we weren't using a 4x6 table, but I digress.

So he asks another player from the area what he thinks. He responds that no, dedicated transports don't count. They are a unit upgrade and don't count. I'm incredulous at this point. I point out the qualifications of a unit, examples in the FOC section, etc..., but he won't budge a bit. He argues that they don't count unless specifically called out. I'm on the verge of stopping the argument when he pulls out the phone and makes a call. Talks for a minute then replies that unless the scenario specifically calls out Dedicated Transports then they don't count. I asked who he called, and he replies "The Rulez Boyz". I'm like WTF, and probably turned 5 shades of red. The TFG at the next table just chuckles and says something like, "well you're not going to give up are you". I just shake my head and state that you could call them in 5 minutes and get a completely different answer. Apparently a collective agreement has just occured that Dedicated Transports don't count for KPs. Basically ruined my night because I know I'm right.

Later that night I see page 92 and Mutiple Unit Choices. The next afternoon I get a text saying that he checked the FAQ and yes Dedicated Transports do count as KPs. I facepalm then shake my head.

So who are these guys that you can call up at any point and get a wrong answer? I know they have a history of giving wrong answers (or at least inconsistent answers) so how much (or how far) should we trust these guys.

Random guys from the warehouse that have to answer rules questions as a form of punishment, I guess. They're totally fething useless because, as you said, they're notorious for giving you a different answer every time.

Your TFG is totally wrong. The "Rulez Boys" answers mean exactly nothing.

Not only that, but the 'Rulz Boyz' phone service hasn't actually existed for some time now... It's all done by email these days.

So I'd be curious as to who he actually called.



And for what it's worth, the rules answer service has changed somewhat. Back when they were answering calls by phone, it was indeed just farmed out to the mail order guys, who answered rules questions in between orders.

These days, the US has a guy (John Spencer) who answers all of the emailed queries, and supposedly keeps a personal database so that those answers, if not strictly official, will at least be consistent. No idea if any other country has a similar service... if they do, I haven't heard of it.

Umm... I would say if you do call them do so for the best 2 out of 3 calls, but here is a better idea just come to a general consesus with these type of players before the game on kill points. I dont like calling them cause by the time you get an answer you could have already just compromised on the rule with MOST people.


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Here is another sugg. roll a die to do the deciding for the rule. If they dont like that kick him in the shin and tell him to get a grip its a game.

insaniak wrote:Not only that, but the 'Rulz Boyz' phone service hasn't actually existed for some time now... It's all done by email these days.

So I'd be curious as to who he actually called.



And for what it's worth, the rules answer service has changed somewhat. Back when they were answering calls by phone, it was indeed just farmed out to the mail order guys, who answered rules questions in between orders.

These days, the US has a guy (John Spencer) who answers all of the emailed queries, and supposedly keeps a personal database so that those answers, if not strictly official, will at least be consistent. No idea if any other country has a similar service... if they do, I haven't heard of it.

So you can't just call in and get an answer (in the US at least)?

If so then that has just opened a whole can of worms for me with this guy.

I would probably never call the Rules Boyz. For any serious rules query, I'd just post it in YMDC and have Dakka help hash it out. Luckily with the people I game with, we don't usually have any serious issues, but obviously that varies from community to community.

Im with the "roll a d6" guy. If you think they should count, and your opponent doesnt, then keep it simple and let chance decide for you both. Cant go wrong there.

It wasn't during a game. I was waiting for somebody to get finished and a guy asked me my opinion. During the game we generally use the dice-off, but it was at a point when we had ample time to talk.

They weren't even playing 40k, the guy I got in an argument with was playing something else.

Edit: I went to the GW site, got the Customer Service # and called. I selected the option for Rules Questions. I recieved an automated response stating that any rules inquiries should be sent via email.

If the guy lied about calling the "Rulz Boyz" then it's not a problem at all. I'll never be playing him again, no sweat off my sack.

Which one was the 'he checked the FAQ' guy?
Anyway, look at the rule book, not some random playa.

I wonder how many emails a week he gets.

Sorry should have nicknamed them. Skinny is the TFG that started it. Red is the guy who 'called' then checked the FAQ. I was pouring over the rule book, but neither were listening to me. I've mentioned Skinny before in another thread. He thinks that the only way a Unit can claim/contest an objective is if everymodel of the unit is within 3" of an objective.

I've had the exact situation happen when I made one of my rare trips to a GW. Argued that dedicated transports were a troop unit for DoW deployment. Opponent went over my head to a red shirt of all people. I cited FAQ, red shirt still overruled me.

The only solution is to know your rules like a champ, and come with the materials and citations. It's amazing how fast you can shut down an argument when you pull out 2 or 3 supporting citations in a few seconds.

It's sad how much of a farce the rules really are sometimes. I couldn't stand playing a game in the store, knowing I'm right, and then being overruled by the people who should really know better, and donkey-caves.

Skinny really sounds like a jackass.
Red's not too bad, caus he admitted you were right in the end and actually looked it up on FAQ.

Does anyone remember calling the rules boyz when 2nd edition came out?

I think they had a 800 number at the time.

If the guy(or anyone else) calls Rulez Boyz, either state their e-mail only policy, or grab a mobile phone, press random buttons, and pretend your calling Rulez Boyz and yell out what you meant in an offical sounding tone.

Or call someone who knows what there talking about, put them on speaker phone.

How about...omg! why didn't we think of it before! How about we just look at the rules and pay no attention to the little voice coming out of the machine. (evil machine spirit, me says)

The problem with dedicated transports came up because the 2008 'ard Boys had a kill points mission in which dedicated transportsd were not considered a killpoint.

Because 5th edition was so new, some people thought this meant that dedicated transports never gave up killpoints and haven't changed thier thinking until the main rulebook FAQ was released.

Well, the two guys involved didn't go to any Ard Boyz events last year. I think they are just stubbornly locked into a 4th Ed mindset. It looks like they resolved that issue in the new scenarios by specifically calling out that Ded Transports are worth 1 kp in Ard Boyz missions.

Gwar is right.

Yes he is. But onlyif he agrees with me, then I'll second that he is right, unless he chooses to be wrong then he dies!!!

Originally, the Rules Boyz were a 'shut up and keep playing service'. If you had an impasse of logic with your opponent over a rule, you gave the Rules Boyz a tinkle, asked the question, and they'd give the answer, either supporting you or your opponent.

Call made, game could continue, and it can all be sorted out properly AFTER your game. They were never meant to be an absolute rules authority to my knowledge?

I voted Misc by the way, as I would only give them a ring if no other third party was available to swing it one way or t'other. So yes I would, but I rarely have to.

barlio wrote:

insaniak wrote:Not only that, but the 'Rulz Boyz' phone service hasn't actually existed for some time now... It's all done by email these days.

So I'd be curious as to who he actually called.



And for what it's worth, the rules answer service has changed somewhat. Back when they were answering calls by phone, it was indeed just farmed out to the mail order guys, who answered rules questions in between orders.

These days, the US has a guy (John Spencer) who answers all of the emailed queries, and supposedly keeps a personal database so that those answers, if not strictly official, will at least be consistent. No idea if any other country has a similar service... if they do, I haven't heard of it.

So you can't just call in and get an answer (in the US at least)?

If so then that has just opened a whole can of worms for me with this guy.

They probably called a GW store, where the red shitrs are always happy to give ill-informed advice. I had a friend who would try calling once or twice a game and ask something and sometimes the answers made no sense.