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I was looking at older threads relating to this point but they didn't help too much, do dev on guants work, since it is just a S2(even with all the attacks and living ammo

I dug this out from an old thread I posted on, relating to the efficacy of the gaunt weapon symbiotes.

Razerous wrote:Fleshguants (Gaunt + fleshborer) put out the most amount of wounds per point. As in, at 6ppm they put out 9 wounds at ap5 vs T4. They do that from 12". It is the shorter ranged option, comapared to the dev, but it does have an AP which means it is alot better vs light infantry.

Dev gaunts (Gaunt + devourer + str bio) put out the second most amount of wounds per point. 10ppm they put out 8.3 wounds at ap~ vs T4. They can do this from an improved range of 18" (which is outside the leathal doubletap range, on the first shooting go anyway) but their shootyness falls more rapidly as each model is more expensive. N.b the cheaper 7ppm dev gaint puts out 6.5 wounds.

Spinegaunts are next in, cheapest @ 5ppm, putting out 7.5 wounds vs T4 at 12". Personally, its the simple fleshgaunt all the way, if you want some form of firepower from large massed broods (used for cover, also not used for WoN for the same reason of large broods).

This is 150pts worth of Whatever vs T4 targets and the number of wounds caused (no saves taken into account) and assuming you get every model to fire.

So, to sum it up;

Fleshborer Gaunts =9 wounds @ 6ppm

Str3 devourer Gaunts =8.3 wounds @ 10ppm

Spinefist Gaunts =7.5 wounds @ 5ppm

Str2 Devorer Gaunts =6.5 wounds @ 7ppm

A few more things to note; Less points = larger broods for the same 150pts. AP5/6 is much better than AP- (for anti-infantry) and longer engagement range is also useful but, I think, not at the cost of effectiveness & brood size you can see above.

Thanks, so with a shooty horde army, I should stick with fleshguants and dev guants

Also keep in mind the primary function of gaunts.
A. shield larger units from assaults and shooting
(dev gaunts are fewer in number )

B. capture objectives
(what unit can hold an objective better?)
(The strength 3 dev gaunts cannot take WON if that is your bread and butter.)

I wouldn't use str2 gaunts considering they only wound a t4 model on a 6 (even re-rolls can't help that much) and have no chance of wounding anything above T5. Also remember that toxin sacs can help in combat too. your unassuming S3 shot dev gaunts are really S4 in close combat. To be able to shoot at 18" and then possibly fire again and charge at s4 it not bad, but at the end of the day never forget that they are T3, 6+ save units that will all die the same regardless of weapon choice.
I say take a single 12-16 model dev unit and try it out. Even if the unit works great I would never replace your whole force with em', as you will always need the cheep-o-gaunts for screening and WON to capture objectives.

So, take cheaper ones like flesh and spines, if I'm doing a horde(fitting in more models seems more important)

and slightly off topic how do guants fare on the assault against smaller squads(8 marines) and larger squads(think 30 boyz)

Huffy wrote:So, take cheaper ones like flesh and spines, if I'm doing a horde(fitting in more models seems more important)

and slightly off topic how do guants fare on the assault against smaller squads(8 marines) and larger squads(think 30 boyz)

Lets do the numbers, assuming we have a 150pt squad of fleshgaunts and favouring the gaunts on the charge;

5man Combat squad of space marines vs 25 Fleshgaunts
Both units strike simultaneously. Gaunts swing 50 times and hit 25.05 times, which cause 8.37 wounds which eqauls 2.79 dead marines.
Space marines swing 6 times hitting 4.01 times causing 2.68 wounds and killing 2.24 gaunts. A total of 3 dead marines to 2 dead gaunts

Double the number of kills for larger full 10man tactical squads. Oh and 25 gaunts shoot and kill 3.1 marines. We all know how easily gaunts die to everything so I havent bothered what any sort of return fire would be like.

30 ork squad vs 25 Fleshgaunts
Assuming clear terrain, gaunts swing first;
50 swings comes to 25.05 hits comes to 8.37 wounds which equals 6.99 dead orks.
The 23 remaining shoota boys swing 43 times which comes to 28.72 hits comes to 14.39 wounds which equals 12.02 dead gaunts wih another 4.17 dead gaunts from No Retreat for a total of 16 dead gaunts to 7 dead orks

With Slugga boys, they wouldve crippled the gaunt squad in close-combat and the subsequent No Retreat! wounds wouldve easily finished them off.
Oh and a full 25-strong fleshgaunt brood firing at (non-KFF) orks will kill 7.8 (which wouldve evened the fight out dramatically for the gaunts vs shoota boys with only 8 gaunts killed and it turns to the Slugga boy fight into somthing that resembles the current Shoota boy fight above - So 16 dead gaunts to (7+8) 15 dead orks)

Gaunts should be there for the meatshield duties and the 6ppm Fleshgaunt is the best comprise by far. Much more shooty than the spinegaunt yet only another 1pt, keeping it at a low cost.

WoN spinefist gaunts should not be large in brood size anyways and really wont help much with meatshield duties nor shooty patrol.

A "Gaunt" with a Fleshborer is a Termagant.

Nurglitch wrote:A "Gaunt" with a Fleshborer is a Termagant.

Incorrect.

Tyranid Codex p40 wrote:Example: Termagants
Gaunt (4 points) + Fleshborer (2 points) + Without Number (3 points) = 9 points

This is what Termagants are.

Razerous wrote:WoN spinefist gaunts should not be large in brood size anyways and really wont help much with meatshield duties nor shooty patrol.

As Ive already suggested, Gaunts with WoN should be kept to the smallest possible size and be kept to the cheapest possible upgrades, Hence Spinefists.

Well it's a matter of preference. I like my WoN gaunts to have fleshborers just because I like the look of them and it's only 1 pt more per model (12 pts for the brood) .... But yeah, small brood sizes definately.

I really don't like devourers on gaunts (just to keep myself on topic). Gaunts are used as screens, or with WoN they hold your own objective. By upgrading them with an expensive weapon you are just reducing the amount of points you have left to spend on bigger stuff. However YMMV. Just a personal preference is all.

Razerous:

GW disagrees with you.

Nurglitch wrote:Razerous:

GW disagrees with you.

Ayup. GW also readily disagree's with itself and related printed material often

WoN spinefist gaunts should not be large in brood size anyways and really wont help much with meatshield duties nor shooty patrol.

Well, if a unit that has Without Number dies, it's back to the other side of the board.

It may work as a meatshield up until then, but after that it's too far away from what it would protect. And because WoN makes the models so expensive, you probably don't want to buy a huge squad.

Ok, so for a horde army=lots of fleshguants, with mybe a brood or 2 of spineguants

Exactly. Fill up your hordey units with fleshgaunts (you are paying an extra 1pt per model) with meatshield duties, with added effectiveness in the shooty dept and field one or two WoN spinegaunts that can be kept alive (or suicided and returned to/)in the back field (where a savvy player will have kept an objective).

In non-objective missions, its a small 64pt squad which wont prescent itself as a target (in killpoint missions) or force the enemy to cause a few more additional wounds.. or be charged/shot at by spinefists!

Alright thaks for all the help guys

Regardless of whether or not they have without number, they're called "Termagants" if they have fleshborers.

Spinegaunts (spinefists), termagants (fleshborers), devilgaunts (devourers), stranglegaunts (stranglewebs), impalergaunts (spikerifles), nightgaunts (devourers and leaping), hormagaunts (scything talons), hunter slayers (fleshborers). Strangleweb/spikerifle-equipped gaunts may also be called termagants because in their time the name was unaffected by the weapon.

Don't believe me? Buy the termagants box and tell me what comes in there.

Besides, "fleshgaunts" is an incredibly dumb name.

Why is it dumb, it's descriptive, describes what weapon they have, making it easier to identify them