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 Barzam wrote:
Are you sure she has pigtails? It looks like she's just wearing a doo-rag with her hair sticking out the back.

Render showed pigtails...and they like to do them, as with the Bolt females, meshed with the head itself.

Latest PanO fashion trend?
I don't really see any problem with it, they still look cool and are a huge improvement over the old ones.

Whew... For a minute there I thought there wasn't anything for Kan to complain about. Crisis averted!

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Whew... For a minute there I thought there wasn't anything for Kan to complain about. Crisis averted!

Oh heavens forbid someone dislike that a veteran soldier have pigtails like she's some kind of schoolgirl.



Too bad this box is way too heavy on SWC. Minimum points necessary to use it is 250.

As if anybody actually plays starter pack vs starter pack games, or if such game occurred points and SWC would matter.

Starter packs are meant to be a base to build on your force nothing else.

The starter packs that are meant to face one another are the non-sectorial sets that are slowly getting revamped into super-balanced boxed sets.

The sectorial sets are for more advanced players anyways. Remember that sectorial starters in the past have had Impersonation and other rather advanced rules.

Two new minis to pick, can't imagine to pick this box, if not for split box service.

 Absolutionis wrote:
The starter packs that are meant to face one another are the non-sectorial sets that are slowly getting revamped into super-balanced boxed sets.

The sectorial sets are for more advanced players anyways. Remember that sectorial starters in the past have had Impersonation and other rather advanced rules.

While being intended for more advanced players, they've also tended to have an appropriate SWC to Points cost. The one notable exception was the Shasvastii one, which is entirely incapable of being played out of the box.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
As if anybody actually plays starter pack vs starter pack games, or if such game occurred points and SWC would matter.

Starter packs are meant to be a base to build on your force nothing else.

And yet, since the poor reception of the SEF box for this reason...it's been clear they have attempted to avoid this exact situation?

Just because you do not play starter pack vs starter pack games(which, by the by, is precisely what likely ends up happening with new players thanks to the Red Veil and Icestorm boxes before they expand) does not mean nobody else does.

Red veil and icestorm are tailor build to go against each other.

Now, as usual I have to make clear that by you saying "Intended" you mean " this is how you want it to be" and not how it is really intended.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Red veil and icestorm are tailor build to go against each other.

What two items make up the bulk of Red Veil and Icestorm?

The standard starter sets.

Now, as usual I have to make clear that by you saying "Intended" you mean " this is how you want it to be" and not how it is really intended.

Now, as usual I have to make it clear that you need to actually go and read the posting again.

The only usage of the term "intended" was in response to Absolutionis where I was agreeing with him that Sectorial sets are usually "intended for more advanced players".

The second part of that has nothing to do with intentions, but rather the fact that Corvus Belli has tended(which is a term used for "being disposed or inclined to an action") to release their starter boxes(Sectorial or otherwise) with an appropriate Special Weapons Cost to Points ratio. The most notable exception to this was the Shasvastii box.

no, red veil and icestorm are complete products, they include a starter set sold separate, but they are balanced between themselves not as starter sets.

CB intends the starter boxes to be a good starting point for the faction/ sectorial, to be expanded with another box and they are not intended to be self balanced between them.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Red veil and icestorm are tailor build to go against each other.

What two items make up the bulk of Red Veil and Icestorm?

The standard starter sets.

The standard starter sets aren't points balanced though. The additional models in the boxes bring each side up to a points balanced set.

I have to agree with Kan, the starter sets should be legal to play and CB should do a good job balancing them. It's really frustrating to people I know that want to play the game that the starters aren't actually traditional faction starters (like what warmahords and other games do) so it's not just buy a box and play but buy a box and several other figures and then remove two from the box and that's something you can play.

It's really dumb and honestly I'm surprised so many people are defending something that's so counter intuitive. I suspect it's because of the person making the argument and not the argument itself.

Second (or third) ed.

Saying the sectorals are for experienced players is silly. I was drawn in by the Scots and MO, and got those starter sets because of it. If it's a starter set - and even if that's not their official name everyone knows them by that - that's not table legal without additional purchases it's disingenuous.

Sure, Kan doesn't do himself many favours in some of his arguments, but other times he can be dead right.

I think the IceStorm/RedVeil boxes are great because they are intended to be a Starter set, you have a sweet spot to jump into and even has some scenarios to play and learn. They have been balanced against each other until the creators were happy with them.

It is a lot easier to make 2 forces balanced, when you take them in isolation and add an additional model to even it out.

Trying to make each and every Faction box balanced would result is some pretty lame boxes or lame points choices from what I can see. Trying to make a 6 Soldier box that is balanced between an elite unit Faction and a low point spammy faction like USAriadna as well as a middle of the road faction as well as etc etc...would be a lot more difficult.
But if you only need to focus on 2 factions and then compare what they are missing to match them then you have a good origin for a real starter.


TL;DR - This poster thinks that the Faction "Starter Packs" are great to get a start in that faction but the "Operation: Name" packs are really what you need for a single out-of-the-box play experience.

Coming into Infinity having no big understanding of the game I was pretty disappointed to find the starter kits to not be all that playable. I ended up spending way more money than I ever wanted to stumbling through the game.

The boxes should be balanced and even competitive to a reasonable degree.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
The boxes should be balanced and even competitive to a reasonable degree.

I'm on the other side of that coin, I like having the different options sometimes extreme differences between forces.
I also would like the forces to be competitive and for the most part they are...but it is hard to represent that in a small sample size, like say a box of 6 miniatures.

 Barzam wrote:
They're looking really good. I liked the old Regulars, but these new ones really blow the old ones away. The Montessa Knight is a huge improvement as well he looks like he would work very nicely as a Father Knight stand-in as well.

Or the Father-Knight would work as a nice Montesa Stand-in. I'm a bit sad that the lost reference is gone from the regulars. (from what I can tell. I'll wait for some proper still photos before making final judgment)

 Vain wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
The boxes should be balanced and even competitive to a reasonable degree.

I'm on the other side of that coin, I like having the different options sometimes extreme differences between forces.
I also would like the forces to be competitive and for the most part they are...but it is hard to represent that in a small sample size, like say a box of 6 miniatures.

The practical issue is the boxes are supposed to give a nice discount for 6 models and give choices to expand for the faction chosen, while it is easy to balance them in some factions on other factions it is not, that is why the decision was made to not care about fine tune balance and some have excess SWC.

I personally would be interested to hear about suggestions of faction and vanilla boxes that are balanced between themselves and keep the 3 criteria listed above, not in this thread of course.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Coming into Infinity having no big understanding of the game I was pretty disappointed to find the starter kits to not be all that playable. I ended up spending way more money than I ever wanted to stumbling through the game.

The boxes should be balanced and even competitive to a reasonable degree.

Got to say I'm quite perplexed by this attitude.

Sure, coming to infinity it might seem like a good idea, but as soon as you actually realise how the game plays and what the rules are it becomes painfully obvious why it simply can't be the case.

O:IS and O:RV are reasonably balanced introduction boxes with "functional" rule sets to get new players started, everything else is expansion material (whether it was released first or not) that clearly can't be used "out of the box" and instead requires additional models in the collection.

You don't buy a set of screwdrivers (or any tools) and then complain about them not coming with screws (or nails, washers, dowels etc.), likewise nor do you complain that you can't possibly use every screwdriver in the set for every job you may ever encounter.
You don't build an army for infinity and then take it out against every opponent regardless, you populate your toolbox and pick the right tools for each situation; some days that 16 point, BS 12 spitfire platform with jungle terrain may be just the ticket to take solo, some days it's for an offensive fireteam and some days it stays at home while you break out the Bagh-Mari (and some days it plays proxy while you run a Tikbalang about, or a KotHS).

If you're looking for a specific tool, the box is really bad way to go about it. Unless you enjoy spending your resources on multiple projects.

You're going to buy two or maybe three "universal" tool bags, simply because you need twelve M6 nuts and a set of imbus keys and you cannot buy them otherwise as the manufacturer of these tools doesn't sell them outside of his universal bag.

You're battling with the guy in the commerce department, not the guy in the design department. The seller will try to smooth the deal by saying you get a discount, however if you don't need the specific set of tools, even with the price reduction, it still remains that you're paying for tools that you don't need. With the need of getting more than one bag, that discount still seems awfully bad deal.

A poster voiced a legitimate argument and it is something I warn every new player who's getting into Infinity.

Except you can't play the game with just the one specific tool, you need a "set". And if you're getting into infinity, you already are spending your resources on multiple projects because that is how the game is played:

Set 1 is good vs HI, TAGs and Hackers
Set 2 is good vs LI and SK
Set 3 is good vs camo and infiltrators
Set 4 is good in jungle terrain
Set 5 is good in dense terrain
Set 6 is good on open terrain
etc.
etc.

And the sets overlap enough that starter boxes and unit (SWC) boxes are worthwhile investments.

Complaining that a faction starter box isn't balanced just makes no sense in the context of how the game is structured.

I assume you give the same warning for all games that bundle something as a starter set?

Are you deliberately trolling or was that a serious question?

For both O:IS and O:RV CB make the claims that they are "ready to play" and have "everything you need".
For the faction and sectorial boxes they do not make those claims.

Not all games are created equally, not all games play equally. Some can, by their nature, have simple box sets that are completely playable and competitive "out of the box".
Infinity isn't one of them.
Did you actually believe people when they told you that you "only need 10 or 12 models to play"?
Or did you use whatever previous knowledge you had of wargaming or just simple economics and realise that you'd be buying a lot more than that.

No, it was directed at Knight not you, I am sure all companies that make starter packs have models that are exclusive to the starter pack and people are stuck with them because they do not want all the models of the starter pack, warning new players about such thing only for Infinity seems really odd to me, I am assuming if he warns people for such thing for Infinity starters, then he must warn them about it for all games that have starter packs, logical isn't it?

As for my question, it is a genuine question, Infinity is a game that as you said is a toolbox and making so many starters that are self balanced, balanced between themselves and keep the criteria outlined, 6 models, giving options to branch out but still provide a basic building force for the faction and give the variety and direction of the faction is not an easy task, would love to hear suggestions from people who think it is an easy task.

I too know that Knight is interested in and plays every single game system ever.

Because you need more stuff and I want to interrupt the lovefest.


286 CB Items.

There's some really good deals in there.

http://www.miniaturemarket.com/searchresults?q=Bigger+Than+Black+Friday#/?_=1&filter.manufacturer=Corvus%20Belli&page=1&sort.price=desc

There's some good deals to be had in there. I grabbed a TAG and a bunch of singles I'd been wanting. The sets I was really hoping would be on sale (Haqq Remotes, HMG Azra'il) weren't actually in the sale though. didn't stop me from spending more than i should've though.

I now have an Onyx Contact Force -_____-

Stop buying things damn it! :p I hate it when you put things in your cart, then go to checkout (only 2 minutes have passed) and they are now out of stock. LOL!