Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I been doing some testing on Hybrid and full mech Imperial Guard and trying to decide on a final list for an 1850 tournament in November. Please let me know what you think?

Hybrid list
HQ
Company Command Squad
4 Melta
Chimera "Odin"
Hull Heavy Flamer
145

Elite
DH Inquisitor
Psycannon
Sage
2 Mystic
Emperor's Tarot
Sanctuary
103

Psyker Battle Squad
4 Extra Psykers
Chimera "Frei"
Hull Heavy Flamer
155


Troops
10 Veterans
3 Meltagun
Demolitions
Chimera "Hodur"
Hull Heavy Flamer
185

10 Veterans
3 Meltagun
Demolitions
130

Platoon Command Squad
4 Flamer
Chimera "Hel"
Hull Heavy Flamer
Pts:

10 Infantry Squad
Las Cannon
Comissar
105

10 Infantry Squad
Las cannon
70

10 Infantry Squad
Las cannon
70

Fast Attack
Valkyrie Vendetta "Lenneth"
130

Valkyrie Vendetta "Hirst"
130

Valkyrie "Silmeria"
Missle Pods
130

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Executioner "Freya"
Plasma Cannon Sponsons
Hull Heavy Flamer
Pts: 230

Manticore 160 "Thor"
Hull Heavy Flamer
160

Total: 1847

CCS with 4 Meltas is great for anti tank and a great deterent for tanks to get close to my lines. They need to stay within 12 inches of the blob to give orders so Plasma might be better here. Might downgrade las cannons in blob to put an Astropath here.

DH Inquisitor is always included for anti deepstrike and the tarot for the +1 to go first. Psycannon for killing fateweaver, taking potshots at Rhinos or insta killing toughness 3 heavy weapons teams. Sage makes him BS5
Santuary cause I am tired of losing to daemons. I lose every time I play them.

Psyker battle squad for the nob biker match up and killing fateweaver. if nothing else its another str 8 template.


Vets with meltas and melta bombs are for killing high av vehicles. They can first turn assault vehicles that didn't move with melta bombs out of Valkyries after they scout move.

Platoon Command Squad with 4 flamers for burninating. Not as good as 4 flamer dominions but close.

Infantry blob sits on my objective in cover and fires las cannons at vehicles or first rank second rank if there an infantry threat close by..

2 Valkyrie Vendettas for transport hunting and droping off melta vets.

1 Valkyrie for killing infantry and droping off melta vets

Executioner kills Marines that fall out of busted transports.

Manticore D3 Str10 AP4 blasts sounds great sign me up.

Only played couple vassal games with this list, rocked a marine drop pod with dreads list who gave me first turn, no astropath so I castled around a hill with the las cannon blob on top, and the valk with the inquisitor to the front of it was spear head deployment. He dee[ struck to close with his melta squads and I took a big chunk out of them. Managed to stun or shake a couple dreads but the rest got to fire taking out 2 vehicles. Managed to melta the rest and take out his marines in short order. Thinking I might want the Astropath after all to come in all from reserve but would have to lose the las cannon in the blob to do so and the las cannons in the blob have been pretty good.

Big issue I am finding with this list is if I alpha strike turn 1 and use both vet squads with demolitions to blow up vehicles, I'm lacking in units to take objectives other then the Platoon Command which is only 5 guys. I had a game where there was 3 objectives, 2 on opponents side I had the blob on one and I couldn't get either of the ones on the opponents side or kill off all his units.


1850 all mech list

HQ
Company Command Squad
4 Melta Gun
Astropath
Officer of the Fleet
Chimera "Odin"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
Total 205

Elites
Inquisitor
Psy cannon
Emperors Tarot
2 Mystics
1 Sage
1 Santuary
Total 112

Psyker Battle Squad
4 more psykers
Chimera "Hel"
155

Troops
10 Veterans
3 Meltagun
Demolitions
130

10 Veterans
3 Meltagun
Demolitions
130

Platoon Command
4 Flamer
Chimera "Hodur"
105

Infantry Squad
Grenade Launcher
Auto Cannon
Chimera "Frei"
12-

Infantry Squad
Grenade Launcher
Auto Cannon
Chimera "Tyr"
20

Fast Attack
Vaklyrie Vendetta "Lenneth"
130

Valkyrie Vendetta "Hirst"
130

Valkyrie "Silmeria"
Missle Pods
130

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Executioner "Freya"
Plasma Cannon Sponsons
Hull Heavy Flamer
230

Manticore "Thor"
Hull Heavy Flamer
160

Total 1847

CCS with 4 Meltas is great for anti tank and a great deterent for tanks to get close to my lines. Astropath just in case I get 2nd turn and want to outflank valkyries or put things in reserves. Officer of the Fleet for armies that use reserves like Daemons, Marine Drop pods, IG with Valks, SM Scouts in Storms. Khan Bikers.

DH Inquisitor is always included for anti deepstrike and the tarot for the +1 to go first. Psycannon for killing fateweaver, taking potshots at Rhinos or insta killing toughness 3 heavy weapons teams. Sage makes him BS5. Santuary cause I am tired of losing to daemons. I lose every time I play them. Unfortunately don't have enough points to put the Inquisitor in a Chimera although he can steal the PCS Chimera.

Psyker battle squad for the nob biker match up and killing fateweaver. if nothing else its another str 8 template.

Vets with meltas and melta bombs are for killing high av vehicles. They can first turn assault vehicles that didn't move with melta bombs out of Valkyries after they scout move.

Platoon Command Squad with 4 flamers for burninating infantry. Not as good as 4 flamer dominions but close.

Infantry squads in Chimeras have Auto Cannons and a Grenade launcher to shoot out with. 2 str 7 and 1 str6 shots isn't to bad against light armor and can shoot the small template against infantry.

2 Valkyrie Vendettas for transport hunting and droping off melta vets.

1 Valkyrie for killing infantry and droping off melta vets

Executioner kills Marines that fall out of busted transports.

Manticore D3 Str10 AP4 large blast nuff said

Also only 4 game with this list but completely rocked a mech eldar player with my alpha strike. After turn 1 killed 3 wave serpents so both his Fire Dragons were walking along with some dire avengers and stunned another wave serpent. Just went down hill from there. Other game was an IG mirror match but he had some expensive CCS with Straken and a Grandmaster in a Chimera and GKTs in a Chimera with GKs in another Chimera and I blew up Straken's Chimera turn 1. Lost an outflanking Marine list might have to put in officer of the fleet but where do I find points?


Thank you for reading. What do you think should I go hybrid or mech?

Anyone have any ideas for what would looked good wrecked to make a scenic Valkyrie base? I was thinking maybe AOBR dread, chaos terminator.

Also looking for Psyker battle squad ideas. I don't like the new headache guys and I want something that looks different already using the old sanctioned psykers as Mystics for my inquisitor squad. I was thinking either Necromunda Cawdor or Escher but sourcing enough with auto gun/cc weapon has been problematic.

Go Mechanized or go home.

Infantry Blobs are terribad. They are reliant on cover which you won't always have and are not very mobile because they need to stay in cover or die really fast.

Mech list looks good.

Many Daemon players argue that Sanctuary does not work. Avoid this issue and don't take it.

Depending on if you outflank more or fear reserve lists cut either the Astropath or the Officer of the Fleet, Sanctuary and the Grenade Launchers to get a Chimera for one of the Veteran Squads which will serve you well if you do not get first turn or to put the Inquisitor in side so no one is standing around outside to get shot by small arms.

You named a tank THOR, for this I will give some advice.

You need more amp, add another executioner you dont need an infantry platoon, use vets. Also the melta bomb upgrade is situational leave it at home.

I am interested in the idea of an IG alpha strike on the enemy. I'm not sure I could dedicate 3 Valk's to that purpose though and I would prefer to incorporate a smaller version of the alpha strike that I could use if it presents itself or not use and still have the units be effective.

I understand the defense to the alpha strike is to have infantry surround the tanks. With that in mind one uit of vet's (to do the alpha strike) and one unit of Grey Knights (to assault the infantry in front of the tanks) is my current idea for an alpha strike. (A.S.)

You have played the A.S. and I was wondering if one unit of 10 Vets, with meltabombs, was enough to get 1-3 enemy vehicles in an A.S. assault. I don't see any reason why not. I like the idea of the Grey Knights in a 2nd Valk because they can A.S. infantry models which are either protecting the tanks or if the enemy doesn't have anything worthy of the A.S. The GK's will also tie up units in the enemy backfield and wouldn't be an easy kill for the enemy in HtH as the vets would be.

Thank you for the summary of how your lists have done.

I have a similar list at home, minus the special stuff (PSB, Inquisitor) with a focus on melta vets and superior vehicles.

Is the manticore worth it? Also, I'm not sure if you've played any Eldar but would the hyrda be worth considering?

Thanks for the replies I been testing the all mech list more and leaning towards it.

2 more test games with the mech version, almost tabled Nidzilla two tyrant 2+ save and 2 guard, 2 won gaunts, 2 outflanking stealer, 3 dakka fex, 3 heavy fex with 2+ save in dawn of war. he had his gaunts left and I won in kill points. won versus Space Wolves with Njal, 3 x grey hunters in rhinos, termies in land raider redeemer and 3 x longfangs with missles. 1st turn alpha strike took out 1 long fangs blocking land raider, 1 land raider, and I shot out Njals Rhino for plasma cannon fun. PBS was useless this game but the alpha strike was a big blow out and I managed the win easily.

The one thing I do like about the Hybrid list is the 3 twin linked from bring it down Las cannons I can shoot at transports or if I have to heavies that aren't on a Valkyrie Vendetta that is easily shaken so its not shooting.

Thus I tried out Las cannons in the infantry squads in Chimeras cutting Sanctuary and a Grenade Launcher and they were rather lack luster with only bs3 but the ap2 did help vs Nidzilla.

Avariel
You do have a point about Sanctuary. I just pretty sick and tired of folding to Daemons especially fate crusher.

I dunno about cutting the Officers. Another Chimera would be nice but the Inquisitor can go in the 3rd Valkyrie or hide in cover. If I want him on the in a Chimera he can commandeer a Chimera from the PCS or an infantry squad. The Officer of Fleet combos well if I get first turn does the opponent want to start on the board and get shot or go reserves with a -1 and is good versus reserve lists like Daemons, Drop Pods and out flankers. The Astropath is good if I do not get first turn to outflank my Valkyries.

I'm considering what you said on AIM with 2 Vet squads with 3 Melta and Las cannon instead of the platoon in chimeras. This would give me some bs4 las cannons for anti transport that are not on Vendettas. I do lose the 4 Flamer Platoon command squad then which I do like alot in that it is really good at killing Infantry and the extra orders sometimes come in useful.

CK0
I was running 2 Executioners at 1 point and I found that that is one too many. Against an all mech list there isn't much for an executioner to do till you crack open a transport, strength 7 small templates aren't exactly good for killing even Rhinos.

I'm leaning towards no infantry platoons cause I ended up playing on no cover boards and the Platoon is pretty bad then and dual Lash ate my platoon. The thing I do like about the Platoon is the bring it down twin linked las cannons for transport killing but the Veterans with Las cannons might solve that problem as well.

The Demolitions is very good if you get first turn because of the first turn assault ability on vehicles that didn't move. Even if you don't get first turn the Demolition charge is pretty good versus Terminators, Marines and Nobs.

DarthDiggler
30 pts each for Demolitions on two vets squads isn't that big an investment for alpha striking. Even if you don't Alpha strike the Demolition charge can be pretty good and melta bombs might be useful.

Valkyries aren't just for Alpha striking. Missle pods are good vs hordes and 3 tl las cannons are pretty good to pop transports.

Mech lists tend to keep their infantry inside their tanks and if they do use some to block you just shoot the infantry. while they are outside.

I did try Grey Knights in the list but they are pretty expensive to be using for 1st turn assaults. Here is a tournament report where I used Grey Knights.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/258258.page#1023202

A 130 pt Veteran squad if you kill a Leman Russ Squadron or Land Raider you way ahead. If you kill a Hammer head your slightly ahead. An Exorcist not so much so but its still not a bad trade. Even killing a las cannon sponson predator makes your Valkyries and Chimeras breath easier. Now with Grey Knights that cost 200+ pts it doesn't seems like such a good deal. Although they can be useful for assaulting infantry in front of a tank to get an opening to assault the tanks with vets, the points trade might not be worth it depending whats behind those infantry.

The other issue is your giving up scoring units for these alpha strike gambits which might hurt in objective missions later. The Grey Knights are so expensive that you can buy 2 or more Squads of IG for their cost. Thats the problem with Grey Knights their cost. One thing I do do to get around the infantry in front is I put the Platoon Command squad in a Valkyrie and then run them forward burn the infantry in front 4 times and then assault to pull them away to give room for the vets to go through that costs 50 pts which is alot cheaper then 200+ for Grey Knights. They probably die but oh well.

The ammount that 10 vets with melta bombs can kill is really up to your opponent a good opponent will only let you get one tank with them by spacing them well or blocking them with infantry or other tanks in front. Where they really excel is versus vehicle squadrons.

Vets tend to die pretty fast after alpha striking. The vehicle will often explode and that will kill some vets right there. They die to pretty much any shooting.

Grey Knights have slightly better survival rate but if you alpha striked and killed some vehicles, then the guys inside or other guys around are just gonna shoot your vets and Grey Knights and they die reguardless so the extra cost of Grey Knights here might not be worth it. Whole idea is if their outside to shoot your vets thats great for the executioner and manticore to shoot their infantry.

Sebulba
Psyker Battle Squad is key to beating Nobs either Bikers or in Battle Wagons as well as Horde Orks. It is true they are pretty bad vs Mech lists till you crack open a vehicle and anything with Psyker defense but a Strength 8 template that has a 50% chance of being ap3 or better isn't too shabby.

Inquisitor gives you anti deepstrike with mystics, the tarot for a leg up on going first which IG loves to go first with alpha strike tricks and a BS5 Psycannon for killing off Fateweaver in the Fate crusher match up which is nearly impossible to win without it. (you shoot him get a wound, then use the psyker battle squad to make him leadership 2 so he runs like the chicken he is)

The Manticore is pure awesome. It erases full squads of Orks, takes out lots of bugs hiding behind the monsterous creature wall, takes huge chunks out of Imperial Guard infantry blobs and isn't too shabby against all mech lists cracking their tanks with strength 10 ordinance where you roll 2d6 and take the highest for penetration. The template does scatter off their tank pretty easily but hopefully you are getting 2 or 3 templates. It does only get 4 shots but one of those turns might be spent not shooting because of dawn of war and the game might end on turn 5. If you run out of ammo you almost certainly killed more then 160 pts worth of stuff.


I have played against MEch Eldar and if you get first turn you can pull the first turn assault and hopefully kill their fire dragon serpent(s). If they block them off you just shot up some dire avengers or guardians that were valueable in scoring, or kill their other tanks. They can come in from reserves with Autarach +1 but your Officer of the Fleet negates that so they come in peice meal and you get to shoot them up.

I was trying Hydras in early lists but they didn't really seem worth the points. Hydras excel at 2 things killing Rhinos and killing skimmers that are moving fast. Even then Strength 7 vs av12 isn't that great its just when the skimmer is moving fast that Hydras are the better choice because they ignore the cover save. Valkyrie Vendettas have 3 TL Las cannons for transport poping and have transport capacity and scout so are a much better buy over all. I don't face Eldar enough to warrant Hydras. Yes it would be nice to have some Hydras to shoot down the Fire dragon serpent moving fast but its hard to justify the points at 1750-1850. List is tight enough as it is trying to make an all comers list.

Ah, finally someone emphasizing the power of the Valkyrie. =D Im basing my Guard around three Valks as well, they really give the Guard the ability to take it to the enemy, rather than just standing and shooting.

I havnt played my guardsmen yet but I feel like the Valkyrie will be great against Tau armies, rather than getting stuck in a prolonged firefight with those damn fire warriors we can just scout move and drop our guardsmen right on top of them. =D IG IN CC

Thanks for the valuable info. I've got some thinking to do.

Great lists...

any list critique I provide would be more personal preference and playstyle choice. I don't doubt that either of these lists would perform very well.


As for the blob... I am currently not running one in my tourney list (mostly because of play speed), but to say that they are "terribad" is ridiculous.

I have had quite a few matchups where the 30 man platoon was the most obnoxious thing on the table. I'd probably cut down to autocannons on them just to keep them a bit leaner. Those points can go into either power weapons for them or an advisor...

Yes, power weapons... I have been playing exclusively with 2x20 blobs or 1x30 blobs against my gaming group. I have been stuffing all sorts of close combat monsters. Taking full strength units out of the game for 4 turns, and even beating whittled down CC units. The commissar and the sergeants are always the ones sending my number of attacks through the roof, with three attacks each NOT on the charge. Adding 30-40 points of power weapons to it adds a whole new layer of CC goodness. Even more units will be intimidated to charge that quagmire.

That being said, the blob is not my favorite tourney unit. There is a lot of combat resolution and initiative steps to go through, it takes a while to set up and a while to move it. So ultimately, it has many uses, and certain matchups can't stand looking at it. But it isn't so good that I would feel like it was a must-take. If carnifex' keep their inability to cut through hordes weakness, its going to be great to charge them.


But back to OP. I like either list, play which ever one feels 'easier' to you. You'll always play better and make fewer mistakes with the army that requires less concentration. Also, answering your PM right now....

Well had another game last night with the mech list vs 3x3 Thunderwolf Calvary with the character on the thunderwolf backed up by grey hunters in rhinos and long fangs with missles and got massacred in pitched battle kill points. I might have to go with plasma vets because those Thunderwolf Calvary are brutal especially with longfangs cracking open your vehicles. The Executioner wasn't that effective because you can't really hit more then 1 wolf and they have stormshield(s) and 2 wounds each plus get to be smashing tanks turn 2. I had to go second so the Thunder wolves were hiding out behind a Rhino wall that smoked and next turn they were hitting me so that ended badly.

Lasfiredoesn'thurt
I'm liking Valkyries a lot they add alpha strike capability, outflanking capability and fast transports.

I have had one game vs Tau with an older list but who gets first turn is key. If your getting first turn and hitting their 1st unit of broadsides with 3 meltas and a demo charge and assaulting them assaulting the second unit of broadsides with grey knights and assaulting a hammer head with melta bombs its a pretty good day but if they get first turn and you have to reserve your Valkyries and they get the first rail gun volley things aren't as good.

Shep
Blob has been really good sometimes like in the 1500 tourney I played in report is here
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/258258.page#1023202
But other times when I don't get any cover in my deployment zone and versus certain match ups the blob is really bad so I'm leaning towards all mech but I'm missing the 3 TL las cannons the blob provides as a fairly reliable way to pop a transport, that isn't easily shaken like a Valkyrie Vendetta.

Going to try 2 Vets in Chimeras instead of the Platoon in Chimeras. 1 probably will get plasmas and both will get las cannons. 2nd might be meltas or plasmas again. Big issue here is I really miss the Platoon Command with the 4 flamers because thats pretty good sometimes to clear out infantry blocking a melta bomb alpha strike or just to kill infantry. Just don't have enough points for everything.

If I go Plasma Vets might try 2 Manticores too.

New list to try
1850 all mech list

HQ
Company Command Squad
4 Melta Gun
Chimera "Odin"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
Total 145

Elites
Inquisitor
Psy cannon
Emperors Tarot
2 Mystics
1 Sage
Total 97

Psyker Battle Squad
2 more psykers
Chimera "Hel"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
135

Troops
10 Veterans
3 Meltagun
Demolitions
Chimera "Tyr"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
185

10 Veterans
3 Meltagun
Demolitions
130

10 Veterans
3 Plasma Gun
Las Cannon
Chimera "Hodur"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
190

10 Veterans
3 Melta Gun
Las Cannon
Chimera "Tyr"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
175

Fast Attack
Vaklyrie Vendetta "Lenneth"
130

Valkyrie Vendetta "Hirst"
130

Valkyrie "Silmeria"
Missle Pods
130

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Executioner "Freya"
Plasma Cannon Sponsons
Hull Heavy Flamer
230

Manticore "Thor"
Hull Heavy Flamer
160

Total 1842

CCS with 4 Meltas is great for anti tank and a great deterent for tanks to get close to my lines. Astropath just in case I get 2nd turn and want to outflank valkyries or put things in reserves. Officer of the Fleet for armies that use reserves like Daemons, Marine Drop pods, IG with Valks, SM Scouts in Storms. Khan Bikers.

DH Inquisitor is always included for anti deepstrike and the tarot for the +1 to go first. Psycannon for killing fateweaver, taking potshots at Rhinos or insta killing toughness 3 heavy weapons teams. Sage makes him BS5. Santuary cause I am tired of losing to daemons. I lose every time I play them. Unfortunately don't have enough points to put the Inquisitor in a Chimera although he can steal the PCS Chimera.

Psyker battle squad for the nob biker match up and killing fateweaver. Shep only ran 6 so I going to try that. template doesn't insta kill nobs anymore but vs nobs you are probably using the - leadership power.

Vets with meltas and melta bombs are for killing high av vehicles. They can first turn assault vehicles that didn't move with melta bombs out of Valkyries after they scout move.

Vets in Chimera with Plasma and Las cannon sit back on my objective and shoot at vehicles or any marines or terminators that get close.

Vets in Chimera with Melta and las cannon also sit back near my objective and shoot at vehicles or use meltas if they get close.

2 Valkyrie Vendettas for transport hunting and droping off melta vets.

1 Valkyrie for killing infantry and droping off melta vets

Executioner kills Marines that fall out of busted transports.

Manticore D3 Str10 AP4 large blast nuff said

Might consider cutting the executioner to add officers maybe and make the second Vets plasma. But going to give this a game or two and see.

Played game with my most recent list against a Vanilla marine player. Tarot was the all star as it go me first turn this game with its +1. Alpha strike blew out his redeemer and a tri las pred. promptly lost both meltabomb vet squads afterwards though. Las cannons in Vets were not bad stunning a rhino early and actually killing one later. Plasma Vets were only ok, they glanced a Rhino and killed some marines but 2 died to overheats. The Company command squad with 3 Plasma Medic might be worth trying but dunno where to find the points. Manticore didn't do much beyond its first turn shoot at a Pred that some guys were next to as it was targeted by the the tri las pred I didn't kill and died 2nd turn. Executioner was only ok got alot of bad scatters this game. Regular Valk did ok killing a few marines.

Thats awesome man. I've been following your list closely. I play guard as well and have been looking into an inquisitor and entourage but didnt quite know where to start.

Played a game with the list in my post 3 up from this one versus Space Wolves in Drop pods. Was pitched battle objectives. he put his behind some woods. and I put mine behind some rocks that gave my vehicles cover and I lost first turn and he made me go first so I clustered up around the Inqusitor and behind the patch of rocks putting valks in reserve.

He came down with wolfguard termies+ rune priests in pods deciding to risk coming in close to the inquisitor. I wiped one squad, cripped a second with the Executioner but not all of them were in range or sight and I had to shoot one group with the plasma vets which 2 died from over head and I lost that chimera and like 5 more died. Combi Meltas took out 1 Chimera and the Executioner.
spread out the vehicles to try and deny multi assaults from what termies were left
Get back in the fight was great on the blown up chimera squad which that last vet rapid fired and killed 2 termies. I fired back with meltas from ccs and vet squad killing some more.
burned with flamers from manticores rather then risk the huge template scatter back on me got 1 termie doing that. There was about 2 termies in one unit and 1 in another left on the board.
next turn another unit came in and I blew away 3 with the inquisitor pointing the CCS at them. He blows up the CCS chimera and assaults them and he blows up the Inquisitor chimera and assaults them they die.
2 vendettas come in one near his objective and kill off a terminator squad, keep concentrating fire killing off another squad
He quits after his next turn when nothing comes in saying inquisitor are unfair.

I think I have to work out the points for a 3 plasma CCS with medic, the vets keep killing themselves from overheats. What you think?

How satisfied are you with the Executioner? I think I'd at least play around with switching it out for a Demolisher or even a Medusa and including a special weapons team or two decked out with flamers. Grav chute those fools onto an unsuspecting horde, and watch the bodies burn. Yeah, it's a suicide KP, but if you don't totally ruin a squad after blasting 3 flamers in it's face, you got very unlucky. If you're not up against hordes, you can fly them around in the Valks/Vendettas until you either find a juicy clump of troops (tank shock, perhaps?) or need to grab an objective.

You could save yourself a few points on the Plasma CCS by simply giving them Carapace Armour rather than a medic.

Rather than 4 Melta, go 3 plasma and Carapace. The carapace saves you 10 points vs a medic.

Oh, and drop Demolitions on your one Vet squad. 30 points right there. The Veterans already have 3x melta, their tank hunting capabilities are pretty sweet as it is.

So remove the 4 meltas and demo and you have 70 points right there. Add in 3 plasma, carapace, and thats 65 points. Toss a Vox into your command squad for the last 5 points.

Hope this helps.

P.S. Your posts are really getting me interested in adding an Inquisitor to my army. It would be fairly simple, I could just replace my 5 man Storm Troops w/ 2x Melta with the Inquisitor and his retinue. They cost about the same amount of points.

You could save yourself a few points on the Plasma CCS by simply giving them Carapace Armour rather than a medic.

Rather than 4 Melta, go 3 plasma and Carapace. The carapace saves you 10 points vs a medic.

Oh, and drop Demolitions on your one Vet squad. 30 points right there. The Veterans already have 3x melta, their tank hunting capabilities are pretty sweet as it is.

So remove the 4 meltas and demo and you have 70 points right there. Add in 3 plasma, carapace, and thats 65 points. Toss a Vox into your command squad for the last 5 points.

Hope this helps.

P.S. Your posts are really getting me interested in adding an Inquisitor to my army. It would be fairly simple, I could just replace my 5 man Storm Troops w/ 2x Melta with the Inquisitor and his retinue. They cost about the same amount of points.

Got owned in dawn of war kill points by Fate Crusher yet again despite killing off Fateweaver. Opponent rolled well for reserves and everything was on the table by turn 3 so I got rolled.

Dumping the Plasma vets they just overheat and kill themselves too much and the Company Command with Plasma costs way too much points. Using the points to up the Psyker Battle Squad to 8 Psykers cause can't think of anything else better to spend the points on.

New list
HQ
Company Command Squad
4 Melta Gun
Chimera "Odin"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
Total 145

Elites
Inquisitor
Psy cannon
Emperors Tarot
2 Mystics
1 Sage
Total 97

Psyker Battle Squad
4 more psykers
Chimera "Hel"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
155

Troops
10 Veterans
3 Meltagun
Demolitions
Chimera "Tyr"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
185

10 Veterans
3 Meltagun
Demolitions
130

10 Veterans
3 Melta gun
Las Cannon
Chimera "Hodur"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
175

10 Veterans
3 Melta Gun
Las Cannon
Chimera "Tyr"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
175

Fast Attack
Vaklyrie Vendetta "Lenneth"
130

Valkyrie Vendetta "Hirst"
130

Valkyrie "Silmeria"
Missle Pods
130

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Executioner "Freya"
Plasma Cannon Sponsons
Hull Heavy Flamer
230

Manticore "Thor"
Hull Heavy Flamer
160

Total 1847

CCS with 4 Meltas is great for anti tank and a great deterent for tanks to get close to my lines. Astropath just in case I get 2nd turn and want to outflank valkyries or put things in reserves. Officer of the Fleet for armies that use reserves like Daemons, Marine Drop pods, IG with Valks, SM Scouts in Storms. Khan Bikers.

DH Inquisitor is always included for anti deepstrike and the tarot for the +1 to go first. Psycannon for killing fateweaver, taking potshots at Rhinos or insta killing toughness 3 heavy weapons teams. Sage makes him BS5. Santuary cause I am tired of losing to daemons. I lose every time I play them. Unfortunately don't have enough points to put the Inquisitor in a Chimera although he can steal the PCS Chimera.

Psyker battle squad for the nob biker match up and killing fateweaver.

Vets with meltas and melta bombs are for killing high av vehicles. They can first turn assault vehicles that didn't move with melta bombs out of Valkyries after they scout move.

Vets in Chimera with Melta and las cannon also sit back near my objective and shoot at vehicles or use meltas if they get close.

2 Valkyrie Vendettas for transport hunting and droping off melta vets.

1 Valkyrie for killing infantry and droping off melta vets

Executioner kills Marines that fall out of busted transports.

Manticore D3 Str10 AP4 large blast nuff said


MilkmanAl
Most of the time I am pretty satisfied with the Executioner. There are games where you get alot of hits and remove many many marines but other games you get some bad scatters but over all the Executioner is a big threat abeit pretty expensive at 230 points.

Demolisher I have tried and is a bit short ranged and the single shot can get a bad scatter and hit nothing. Less chance of getting a total miss if you have 4-5 shots instead of just one. Medusa has the same single shot that can scatter and is av12 and open topped.

You can only run special weapons if you are running Infantry platoons which my most recent list does not run.

Lasfiredoesn'thurt
I decided against going with the Plasma CCS just costs too many points for what it does will stick with 4 Melta CCS.

Not droping the Demolitions. If I get first turn the ability to first turn assault with melta bombs just wins games. If I don't get first turn a Demolition charge is awesome versus elite infantry since it can insta kill Oliberators and nobs, and kill Regular Terminators.

The Inquisitor is there for several reasons:
1. Emperor's Tarot for the +1 to go first 5/6 of the time because going first with IG is really good.
2. Mystics for the anti deepstrike capability against Demons, Drop Pods or Deepstriking terminators to protect your tanks.
3. BS5 Psycannon for killing Fateweaver combined with the Psyker Battle Squad. You make him leadership 3 with the Psyker Battle Squad and then shoot him with the Psycannon you should score at least 1 hit and wound with 3 shots hiting on 2's and wounding on 3's. Fateweaver then rolls on leadership 3 or dies. This gives you a fighting chance in an otherwise unwinable match up.

Might actually keep the one unit Plasma Vets despite them overheating and dying often.

Other change I might go with is instead of giving the Inquisitor a Rhino have him commandeer a Chimera I buy for the Melta Demo Vets that go in a Valkyrie.

Not a bad plan man, I don't doubt you are more skilled than I.

But how do you feel about the veterans with the lascannon and the meltaguns? The two weapons are kind of at odds with eachother.

You could remove Demolitions from your one vet squad and replace it with carapace on the Plasma Vets in the one list

-Lasfire

Serious thinking of putting the plasmas back in for the bloodcrusher match up and shep's list with plasma did well

-2 psykers pays for plasmas for one squad but where to get the other pts

Maybe cut a sage?

I think you could just do it to the one squad.

You have an executioner, which my most recent list didn't have.

My good friend AbsoluteBlue went to that same tourney i did with a slightly different take on mechvets.

He had an executioner and a demolisher instead of my manticores, and so he ran a lot of flamers on his veterans instead of plasma. he ended up with the same record as me. Just approached his list building differrently. But we both essentially had the same list concept.

that is what is so amazing about Robin's codex, IG armies need multi-shot or blast ap2 for anti-hardnuts, meltas for anti-land raider/battlewagon, templates or large blasts for anti-horde, and they need a lot of 48" range anti-transport. But in every slot you can buy a different unit with one of these tools.

In looking at your list, i see three valks with missile pods, 4 heavy flamers on chimeras, a manticore and a PBS for anti-horde... demo charges and an executioner for hard targets, the manticore and 16 meltaguns for land raider/battlewagon, and 4 multi-lasers and 2 lascannons for 48" transport kill.

I would say that for a tournament metagame (only speaking from my own experience) you have way too much land raider hate, and you are slightly fat on anti-horde. you are a bit anemic on long range transport kill, and (in my recent experience) starved for hard target killing. If you face an army that likes to stack hard stuff, and has a way to start the game right next to you (space wolves, demons) your current set up will be at a disadvantage.

Like I was saying earlier, how you add and subtract focus from your army has no right or wrong answer... and your metagame may be completely different than mine. But I don't ever see 3 land raider armies at tourneys, and you'll always face an ork player or a tyranid player in one of your games, completely taking their competitiveness out of the equation those are two massively popular armies.

So rather than suggest a specific list tweak, i'd rather just recommend to you that you add multi-shot or blast ap2, and maybe a little bit more lascannon/autocannon/hydra. I would recommend cutting land raider kill and a little bit of anti-horde to do that.

random ideas...

valkries can become vendettas
meltaguns can become plasma guns
demo vets can pick up heavy flamers so that manticores can become demolishers

Who is the infamous daemon army you keep clashing against?

Gotta say, plasma guns are sweet man. They're dangerous but a few good rolls on your part and there isnt much that hasnt been turned into mush.

I'm not familiar with the points cost of a mystic though, I'm assuming roughly 45?

I just revised my own list, made room for 2 Lascannons to stick in my infantry blob for transport hunting. Had to cut a Commissar sadly but I guess I didnt need 2 in the first place. Also added another Melta Vet Squad instead of my melta stormtroopers.

-Lasfire


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the points cost of a sage*

Shep
Made a few changes, put plasmas back in and going to try the heavy flamer 2 melta combo you suggested with the valkyrie vets but 3 melta is better for tank poping. Will have to test it out if I'm going first and alpha striking I don't like the flamers because I paid 10 more points and am assaulting a vehicle with melta bombs if it didn't die to my meltas.

I actually have 2 vendettas and 1 valkyrie with missle pods

So


Updated list
77th Aesir Company
HQ
Company Command Squad
4 Melta Gun
Chimera "Odin"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
Total 145

Elites
Inquisitor
Psy cannon
Emperors Tarot
2 Mystics
1 Sage
Total 87

Psyker Battle Squad
2 more psykers
Chimera "Hel"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
135

Troops
10 Veterans
2 Meltagun
Heavy Flamer
Demolitions
Chimera "Tyr"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
195

10 Veterans
2 Meltagun
Heavy Flamer
Demolitions
140

10 Veterans
3 Melta gun
Las Cannon
Chimera "Hodur"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
175

10 Veterans
3 Plasma Gun
Las Cannon
Chimera "Loki"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
190

Fast Attack
Vendetta "Lenneth"
130

Vendetta "Hirst"
130

Valkyrie "Silmeria"
Missle Pods
130

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Executioner "Freya"
Plasma Cannon Sponsons
Hull Heavy Flamer
230

Manticore "Thor"
Hull Heavy Flamer
160

Total 1847

Stats
antihorde: valkyrie with missle pods, 4 heavy flamers on chimeras, manticore, psyker battle squad, 2 vets with heavy flamer demo charge.
hard infantry: 2xvets with 2 melta heavy flamer and demo charge, 1x vets with 3 plasma gun, executioner
landraider/battlewagon: 11 melta guns + manticore
long range transport kill: 2 vendetta, 2 las cannons on vets in chimeras, 4 multi lasers on chimeras
scoring units: 4 total, 1 in valkyrie, 1 in choice of valkyrie or chimera and 2 in chimeras.

Choice Explanations
CCS with 4 Meltas is great for anti tank and a great deterent for tanks to get close to my lines. Astropath just in case I get 2nd turn and want to outflank valkyries or put things in reserves. Officer of the Fleet for armies that use reserves like Daemons, Marine Drop pods, IG with Valks, SM Scouts in Storms. Khan Bikers.

DH Inquisitor is always included for anti deepstrike and the tarot for the +1 to go first. Psycannon for killing fateweaver, taking potshots at Rhinos or insta killing toughness 3 heavy weapons teams. Sage makes him BS5. Unfortunately don't have enough points to put the Inquisitor in a Chimera although he can steal the PCS Chimera.

Psyker battle squad for the nob biker match up and killing fateweaver. 6 psykers is enough to give leadership 9 -6 = 3 which will fail most of the time. 8 psykers is better for the higher strength on the template but points are tight.

Vets with meltas and melta bombs are for killing high av vehicles. They can first turn assault vehicles that didn't move with melta bombs out of Valkyries after they scout move. heavy flamers + demo charge should be pretty good against hordes.

Vets in Chimera with Melta and las cannon also sit back near my objective and shoot at vehicles or use meltas if they get close.

Vets in Chimera with plama and las cannon also sit back near my objective and shoot at vehicles or use plasma for clean up of marines that fall out of transports

2 Vendettas for transport hunting and droping off melta vets.

1 Valkyrie for killing infantry and droping off melta vets

Executioner kills Marines that fall out of busted transports.

Manticore D3 Str10 AP4 large blast nuff said good vs hordes and decent for land raider poping.

My local meta has 1 fate crusher player, 2 other daemons players, 1 nids player, 2 marines with 2 land raider redeemer, 1 pedro marines with tacs in rhinos, scouts in speeders + termies in redeemer. bunch of guard players who like to spam Russes. mix of ork players, horde, trucks, battlewagon nobs. some other marine players. be it mech or pod. Depends who shows up and what store I play at. I play at the Only Game in Town and Gamer's Realm in NJ but occasionally travel.

Lasfiredoesn'thurt
The infamous fate crusher players I keep losing to are dakka members frgsinwinter and avariel. Haven't won one game against either of them with Sisters or Guard.

Going with the 1 unit of plasma for now I might go 2 units of plasma and keep the 3 meltas in the valkyrie vets.

The elite inquisitor with 2 mystics cost is 32 points.

not allows to post individual points costs but you have an IG codex so.
individual mystic 4 points less then the cost of 1 psyker battle squad psyker.

Sage costs the same as 1 psyker battle squad psyker.

I find that 2 vendettas is not enough long range anti transport they get shaken too easily. The 2 Las cannons in chimeras provide shots that aren't on vendettas.

Kirika wrote:Updated list
77th Aesir Company
HQ
Company Command Squad
4 Melta Gun
Chimera "Odin"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
Total 145

Elites
Inquisitor
Psy cannon
Emperors Tarot
2 Mystics
1 Sage
Total 87

Psyker Battle Squad
2 more psykers
Chimera "Hel"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
135

Troops
10 Veterans
2 Meltagun
Heavy Flamer
Demolitions
Chimera "Tyr"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
195

10 Veterans
2 Meltagun
Heavy Flamer
Demolitions
140

10 Veterans
3 Melta gun
Las Cannon
Chimera "Hodur"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
175

10 Veterans
3 Plasma Gun
Las Cannon
Chimera "Loki"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
190

Fast Attack
Vendetta "Lenneth"
130

Vendetta "Hirst"
130

Valkyrie "Silmeria"
Missle Pods
130

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Executioner "Freya"
Plasma Cannon Sponsons
Hull Heavy Flamer
230

Manticore "Thor"
Hull Heavy Flamer
160

Total 1847

I believe in this list.