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So after much ado and one more game of 5th Edition, here's what I ran today for a game at my FLGS:

HQ
Chaplain - 130
Terminator Armor

Elites
5 Assault Terminators - 200
3 LC, 2 TH/SS

Troops
10 Tactical Marines - 210
Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun
Sarge w/ Power Fist

10 Tactical Marines - 195
Flamer, Sarge w/ Power Fist

-> Rhino - 50
Extra Armor

10 Tactical Marines - 195
Flamer, Sarge w/ Power Fist

-> Rhino - 50
Extra Armor

Fast Attack
1 Attack Bike - 50
Multimelta

1 Attack Bike - 50
Multimelta

Heavy Support
10 Devastator Marines - 230
4 Missile Launchers

Vindicator - 115

Land Raider Crusader - 275
Multimelta, Extra Armor

1750 On The Dot

I played against Orks and had a win out of it, though my opponent was still sort of new to the game and his list was using a lot of "toyz over boyz" which did better than I thought it would against me, but overall I know how to play Orks so I knew what to do against him and the fact that he didn't have tons of Boyz in there made me able to pull the win out.

The Chaplain and the Lightning Claw terminators were easily the MVP's here. By themselves, with all the Re-Rolls just went through units like a hot knife through butter. It was ridiculous. As awesome as TH/SS terminators are, I really think that just using a mix of the two is awesome. Plus, I was really down on the chaplain being somewhat gimped in the latest book, but re-rolls on lightning claws is THE WINZ. Plus he's really cheap at 130 points.

The only sad thing is that I don't own any attack bikes, but a friend lent me two of his. Seeing how many times I missed with my Multi-Meltas, I now understand why people hate Vulcan. Oh, and Land Raiders are ridiculous, though I assume against people who have stronger armies, I would have to work a LOT harder to protect myself from Melta Death.

All and all, I had fun, I saw just how absolutely insane 4+ cover is for the Boyz, so maneuvering to deny them that was key. Though against a better list that would have been impossible.

Ironically, I bought my own copy of AOBR, and then bought the Ork parts off a buddies AOBR, so I'm going to work on my Boyz next to get them up to 5th Ed form, but I do like my Marines a lot and would like to get them going. Any advice for me on this would be appreciated.

Thanks!

First thing first, the rhinos do not need extra armor. 15 points for a 1/6 chance to have an effect, assuming you get hit even on a 35 point model is way overcosted. Its simply not worth the extra expendature. If you take off the extra armor and find another 5 points, you have another rhino for the other tact squad!

Additionally, the tactical squads should always grab heavy weapons for free. You only lose 1 shot on the move due to their bolt pistol, and the added flexibility is key.

Next we come to the dev squad. 230 points is alot to pay for 4 MLs. That could be more effective as almost anything else.

The LRC can be a dedicated transport for your terminators, so you do not need to use a heavy slot for it. Take out the dev squad and you have points and room for 2 more vindicators.

One more point, I would change the ratio to 2 LC to 3 TH/SS, but YMMV.

GL

Well the ratio of TH to LC is dependent on your enemy and what they have. Against a take anyone though I would say run 3 LC and 2 TH/SS because if you need that many 3+ inv you have a problem. Have you tried scouts yet? If you want to deepstrike your termis then scouts are ideal.

i'm with dracos... switch the raider to a dedicated for the terminators, and replace the dev squad with 2x combipreds (2x lascannon + autocannon). 10 points more, but you get 4 lascannons and 2 autocannons for that 10 points, in harder to kill shells.

The Devastator squad is a solid firebase for long range anti-tank, but I think it costs too much for this list. I'd swap it for two combi-Preds-- for just 10 points more, this upgrades your missile launcher firepower to lascannons and adds two autocannons as well. The Predators are slightly easier to kill, but much less vulnerable to assault, and immune to some weapons that will otherwise get flung at them.

Do you really need power fists on your Sergeants? You have Combat Squads and Combat Tactics to escape assault, and getting stuck in generally isn't the best move for Marine forces. If you drop the fists, you'll gain 75 points, which could buy a Rhino or Razor for your third Tactical Squad, pay for the combi-Preds, and give you points to spare, even with the extra armor.

I agree that LC/TH mixed units are superior to straight TH ones, especially with a Chaplain, but I'd adjust that mix to 3x TH, 2x LC. if you have sufficient extra points, you could always buy another LC guy to make it even.

I will do a unit by unit analysis:

HQ
Chaplain - 130
Terminator Armor

My personal preference is with a Librarian with Null Zone, Vortex, Terminator Armor, and Storm Shield. Null Zone is horrendous against other armies "big assault units" like Nobs, other Terminators, and gives you a decisive advantage over Deamons. Plus you can nullify PBS from IG players. All for 140 points. I usually play Vulkan though, so my Thunderhammers are master crafted. THe Chaplain is still good, but I always find it hard to ignore the utility of the Librarian.

My next test "idea" is running Pedro in with a big Terminator Squad plus the Chaplain. Imagine that squad with +1 attack + re-rolls to hit. Nasty if you can pull it off.

Elites
5 Assault Terminators - 200
3 LC, 2 TH/SS

My mix right now is one LC and 4 TH/SS, I find that the additional protection is valuable, and when you go against things like Nobs and Blood Thirsters, the str. 8 is invaluble. I have played them with and without Vulkan.

Troops
10 Tactical Marines - 210
Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun
Sarge w/ Power Fist

10 Tactical Marines - 195
Flamer, Sarge w/ Power Fist

-> Rhino - 50
Extra Armor

10 Tactical Marines - 195
Flamer, Sarge w/ Power Fist

-> Rhino - 50
Extra Armor

I will scho others in saying that the powerfist is not all that great in tactical squads. Because of how combat works (i.e. dedicated assault units are either wiping you out or making you take no retreat wounds) and the fact that Tacticals need to be played more conservatively to keep them alive and scoring, makes the use of the powerfist not necessary.

I personally like to use Power weapons just as a precaution if they ever do need to charge. But most players keep sergents bare. I am considering trying Combi-weapons in my Vulkan lists.

As far as the heavy weapons go, the only ones I like to pay points for are Lascannons, otherwise I go MM or ML. Mostly a mix of both. Plasmacannons are better in a Dev Squad.

Fast Attack
1 Attack Bike - 50
Multimelta

1 Attack Bike - 50
Multimelta

I would put them in a squadron to conserve on kill points.

Speeders versus Attack Bikes are a pretty good debate, I have used both and I prefer the Attack Bikes, they are cheaper, a little more resiliant, and can charge things to slow them down.

Both have their place though. I have even run both in a list before to good effect. They are our best anti-land raider option in standard lists.

Heavy Support
10 Devastator Marines - 230
4 Missile Launchers

Vindicator - 115

Land Raider Crusader - 275
Multimelta, Extra Armor

Pretty Strong Heavy Support section. I have come to the conclusion that Devs are best with a Thunderfire Cannon for the 3+ coversave and the compliment to the blasts you can throw out. I like 4 MLs, but I have also been running 2 ML, and 2 PC. It's rather fun to shoot units after you pop their transport with 8 blasts.

If you wish to play more agressive though, I would consider dropping the Devs for a Standard Raider. I have been playing that a lot recently and have been fairly impressed. You can pop a portion of a tactical squad in it to have it score, sit on an objective, and split fire it's lascannons at other transports.

my turn!

Voodoo Boyz wrote:HQ
Chaplain - 130
Terminator Armor

Cool. combi-weapon option is actually pretty cheap on this guy and worth looking into, if you've got some extra points floating around. Like most are saying, his re-rolls are nice when chopping down boys, but when charging other assault termies/demons/seer councils/nob bikers, the null zone will actually help your armies overall output more than these re-rolls. It's a fine choice to take a chalain, but be sure to give the libby a try when you get a chance.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Elites
5 Assault Terminators - 200
3 LC, 2 TH/SS

A nearly mandatory space marine unit, I think you are light on shields. What makes this unit the king of counter-assault is that it is geared up to fight anything. It can charge a hive tyrant/bloodthirster, take a charge from burna boys, charge a weakened nob unit. The way you've got it set up, it can go through tarpits better, but as a shooty army with counter-assault, you should be using bolters on tarpits, and keeping your termies safe in the LR until the real threat hits your lines. I think anything more than 4:1 TH:LC is pushing it.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Troops
10 Tactical Marines - 210
Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun
Sarge w/ Power Fist

10 Tactical Marines - 195
Flamer, Sarge w/ Power Fist

-> Rhino - 50
Extra Armor

10 Tactical Marines - 195
Flamer, Sarge w/ Power Fist

-> Rhino - 50
Extra Armor

Experiment with tac marines. Use as many different combos as you can dream up, and see which meshes best with your playstyle. You've got the LRC and the MMAB, that is fantastic, that means you don't need to use any tac marines to complete the nearly suicidal job of melta-ing a full land raider. Plasma will come in handy, but for this list, since you hav a vindicator and the chaplain, I think flamer missile launcher is best. Plasma is also something you could add depending on local meta. Keep the single plasma unit and add the free missiles to the two other tac squads. Ditch extra armor, you aren't an assault army, and buy a rhino for the third squad.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Fast Attack
1 Attack Bike - 50
Multimelta

1 Attack Bike - 50
Multimelta

Cool. I like Mahu's suggestion for you to tighten up your KP situation. But 2x1 is better than 1x2 in 66% of the games. Your call. Don't be aggressive with these, they aren't your transport/gunship killers. Keep them out of LOS behind the land raider or rhinos until you need to kill something hard.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Heavy Support
10 Devastator Marines - 230
4 Missile Launchers

Old school unit. Make it 5 strong. What I've learned from my games versus space wolves lately is that most players have a VERY limited amount of 48"+ range weaponry. Most of it is single shot vehicle kill or double shot AP4. Neither weapon is particularly scary to a dev marine in cover. Keep them cheap and expendable. Once the devs lost the ability to "take a table quarter" they became offensive tools. 16 points does not an ablative wound make. Devs and thunderfire cannons, as Mahu has mentioned love each other very passionately. Everyone gets a 3+ save and when the thunderfire cannon pops, the techmarine has a unit to join. Min-max devs are fine without thunderfire however.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Vindicator - 115

A good unit but very difficult to use. Your positional awareness needs to be extreme. your side armor needs to be screened at all times, and you need to be shielded from as much melta as you can. A well layed vindicator is certainly competitive.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Land Raider Crusader - 275
Multimelta, Extra Armor

If you are scrounging for points you can cut extra armor as you are using the tank primarily to house your counter-attack element, and will probably be within 15" of who you want to charge anyway, but when facing off against IG and tau, that ability to move may save your bacon.


You are pretty close for a guy just getting back. Marines are so reactive, they don't really dictate the pace of games, you really need to play them a lot to figure out whether or not you have all the tools you need to react. So get out there and write some more batreps

Really appreciate the advice here guys and I'm going to incorporate a lot of it.

I did like my Dev squad, but I'll try the new predator configuration out, and the new codex definitely makes me glad I went and magnetized my tanks!

Really a shame about power fists sucking now, maybe I'll try some PW armed Sarges out next.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Heavy Support
10 Devastator Marines - 230
4 Missile Launchers

I have been having so much success with this unit. I been adding purity seals and other bits to my models to show off their kills. Yes they are expensive but add such a threat that your opponent has to deal with them or they have to be very mindful of where they moving units or armor. I have two Predators and they have yet to be as effective as this squad. I always go 10 man in cover or I put them on a hill with 5 at the top of the hill and 5 down the hill a bit out of line of sight to get cover saves.