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Appraise, if you will.

The Asphodel Fifth Guards.

CCS- 150pts
Commander with power sword, plasma pistol.
Lascannon team, voxcaster, Master of Ordnance, Bodyguard, Sniper.

Troops:
Platoon-
PCS- 100pts.
Commander with powerfist and plasma pistol, standard, Medic.

Infantry Squad- 70pts
Autocannon, GL, Vox.

Infantry Squad- 70pts
Autocannon, GL, Vox.

Veterans- 110pts
Sergeant with PW
3x Melta
Shotguns



Exactly 500pts. What do you think now? All footslogging. My anti-tank is limited but I shouldn't need that much at 500pts.

The IF platoon is your only troops selection - you need 1 more to fit the minimum requirements.

At 500 pts, your best bet is to bring Veterans so you can meet your required number of Troops choices, and because BS4 is so much better than BS3.

Hmm... that's what I would call a very stupid mistake. Alright, I'm going to edit the original post with a new list.


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Took meltavets. Kitted out my PCS to counter-charge. Redesigned my CCS for leadership and long-range support. The CCS supports the platoon with orders, the PCS helps out the platoon in CC, the Veterans provide close-in support on the flanks. It's probably apparent that this Veteran Squad was designed for Valkyrie drops, but slogging it should be okay at 500pts.

Owain wrote:CCS - 150pts
Commander with power sword, plasma pistol.
Lascannon team, voxcaster, Master of Ordnance, Bodyguard, Sniper.

Humans are S3, you are going to lose your power weapon shots because of your WS4 (prolly lose 50% as most people also have WS4), and because of your awful S3 (prolly lose at least 50% of what is left as most people have minimum/higher than T3), after that the power weapon denies saves, so the wounds you do get, will go through. At this point, however, ask yourself why not upgrade the power weapon to a power fist and take S6 to battle for only 5 more points. Then you wound (most likely) on a 2+ and thus would only have to worry about your WS4 (which by itself is THAT terrible). For us weak humans, Power Fist are almost required to be able to do any damage.

MoO is very inaccurate. At 500pts the enemy won't have enough models close together so that when you miss (and you will) you will still hit something else. There are better options for 30pts you could buy.

Plasma pistol is gonna get your Company Commander killed, and then you lose your Power weapon and your HQ who was giving orders to buff your guys. Take a bolter pistol, if anything. Leave the suicide attempts to lower guardsmen.

Boyguards I like, especially if you allocate wounds smartly. Sniper is ok, but is better used with Ratlings. BS4 Lascannon is awesome.

Owain wrote:Troops:
Platoon-
PCS- 100pts.
Commander with powerfist and plasma pistol, standard, Medic.

Powerfist is good. Plasma pistol, again, is gonna get your Platoon Commander killed, but I would be less worried about him than I would be than the Company Commander. Platoon Standard is sorta useless as it only gives you +1 to the combat results. Regmental Standards are better as you can reroll moral, I would move your standard from the PCS to the CCS. Medic is an awful waste of points. Humans are too squishy (T3) and you are likely going to get completely destroyed 90% of the time anyway, a medic will never be able to keep up... let alone be worth the points.

Owain wrote:Infantry Squad- 70pts
Autocannon, GL, Vox.

Infantry Squad- 70pts
Autocannon, GL, Vox.

Looks good. However I would probably recommend dropping the platoon all together and just bringing Veterans, more powerful, more versitile.

Owain wrote:Veterans- 110pts
Sergeant with PW
3x Melta
Shotguns

Again, to me, powerfist seems like the better deal. The squad as a whole seems pretty good, but again T3 is not going to be too successful. You are going to need a Chimera to get these guys into 6" range where they can be useful.

If you strip the CCS, and drop the Platoon for 2 squads of Vets, you might be able to find the points for a Chimera. But that is going to change your list a bit.

I'd go with something like this...

Company Command Platoon-110
-Missle Launcher, Plasmagun, Officer of the Fleet.

10 Veterans-140
-Demolitionists, Heavy Bolter, 2 Plasmaguns

10 Veterans-125
-Demolitionists, Heavy Bolter, Plasmagun

10 Veterans-125
-Demolitionists, Heavy Bolter, Plasmagun

This list give you what your first list was lacking, heavy tank busting ability, horde management, and marine killers. Thirty Meltabombs should be able to clear up any surprise landraiders that get too close, heavy bolters and demolition charges deal with hordes quite effectively and plasmaguns and demolition charges take care of marines. Not to mention the transport rush, which is so fond these days. Throw a demolition charge on a group of marines that just got out of their rhino and watch them vaporize.

Why would they get out of their rhino?

Because most people, unlike yourself, are very very stupid and try to get out of them as soon as possible.

What do you do if you fight people that aren't stupid? Shouldn't you plan for fighting people who know what they are doing? If someone was gonna let you win, why are you even on Dakkadakka perfecting lists?

Well, seeing as how "Throwing a demolition at a squad that disembarked is a specific instance".... geee, I don't know... I suppose I would probably shoot the plasmaguns and missile launcher at the rhinos and.... I don't know... blow them up? That might be a good idea? Huh?


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Or maybe drop the pie plate from the officer of the fleet..... gee.... the choices to blow up rhinos is just so limited.....

MoO is gonna miss, thus you get half strength against vehicles... so no dice there. With only 1 Missle Launcher in the list, good luck when you miss, or don't pen, or don't get a destroyed roll.

CCS- 150pts
Commander with power sword, plasma pistol.
Lascannon team, voxcaster, Master of Ordnance, Bodyguard, Sniper.

Drop the commander's upgrades, and the bodyguard.

Troops:
Platoon-
PCS- 100pts.
Commander with powerfist and plasma pistol, standard, Medic.

Drop the medic, this squad doesn't need to survive that badly. Drop the commander's upgrades as well; give them a few cheap special weapons. Grenade launchers would be ideal for having them on foot.

Infantry Squad- 70pts
Autocannon, GL, Vox.

Infantry Squad- 70pts
Autocannon, GL, Vox.

Drop one vox, so you can combine the squads to save 5 points.

Veterans- 110pts
Sergeant with PW
3x Melta
Shotguns

Drop the PW.


Also, Angron really needs more anti-tank. A single melta squad is ideal at this point level.

Why the hate on the MoO? You actually have a reasonable chance of getting a hit on at least one vehicle over the course of a game because you can twin-link him with BiD.

makr wrote:Why the hate on the MoO? You actually have a reasonable chance of getting a hit on at least one vehicle over the course of a game because you can twin-link him with BiD.

I hate the MoO because you are forced to get a 2D6 scatter 1/3 of the time, and 3D6 2/3 of the time. A large blast template is 5", that's 2.5" from the center. Which means anything over 3" scatter, and you miss the target you wanted. 7" if you get to use your BS4. Problem is, 2D6 averages at 7. Thus, in 1/3 of the situations, if you have line of sight, you might barely graze the edge of the target you wanted to hit. This is only for troops.

Against vehicles, the weapon is only worth the shot if you can land the hole over the hull of the vehicle. I am pretty sure there are no vehicles in the game that have a 7" hull radius. The only exception to this might be in Apoc game (which is pretty much the only times I would ever recommend using an MoO is in high points or Apoc games, which I will explain later). Because an MoO can never get a hit, he is completely useless against vehicles... unless you are incredibly lucky.

Now considering that the MoO is useless when he gets a hit (only 1/3 of the time) and scatters only 2D6... imagine trying to get 3D6 to work. Acknowledging that 2/3 of the time you are going to have to roll 3D6, you should probably just expect this to be what you are going to scatter. This will (effectively) never hit the vehicles you want, and will (effectively) never hit the squads you want to hit. By the numbers, it is just a horrible waste of 30pts.

The exception to the MoO being a terrible buy is when accuracy is pointless. In team games, high point games (2000+), Apoc games... etc, you can go ahead and shoot at the middle squad, surrounded by other squads or vehicles. If you miss by 2" or by the full 18" it doesn't matter. You still hit something, somewhere. In those cases I've watched MoO take out 100s of casualties in a game, and he's a fantastic buy for only 30 pts.

In a 500pt game, 30pts is 3 autocannon, or 3 heavybolters somewhere else in the army list. At 500pts you will miss everytime with the MoO, and you will be wasting points that could be spent on far more useful weapons that have a reasonable chance of hitting a vehicle every turn... as opposed to once per game. (Personally, like I explained mathematically above, I don't think you will ever hit a vehicle over the course of a game... let alone still having to roll pen and damage.)

However, I will admit... I never thought to use BiD with the MoO. Still, that means you have to pass the test, and still get increadably lucky... just you have an extra chance to get lucky. And again, the points would be better used on autocannon or even lascannon... and you can BiD a lascannon... which is a great weapon against anything big and scary you don't like... and far more reliable than MoO, and a better buy IMO.

*Edit* I changed the numbers for the blast marker in the first paragraph. I had used a large blast instead of a small blast. which wasn't correct.
*Edit* I changed the numbers for the blast marker in the first paragraph back to what I had... it is supposed to a large blast, like I originally thought.

Huh? an Ordance Blast is one 5" diameter?

*Edit* I was a huge idiot, and the blast was a large blast.

I dropped the plasma pistols from the list. Neat looking, but dangerous. PCS gets a power fist and bolt pistol, Commander gets a boltgun.


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This army is more for fluff and fun, but it is good to have at least some degree of competitiveness.


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Also:

Gave the veterans Bastonne. His Bring it Down! will be invaluable for those meltas.

Combined the infantry squads. Forgot about that trick. Thanks, Makr.

I don't think I have ever seen anyone spend the points on Bastonne, but tbh... I can't think of a better use of the guy.

Not sure if you are going to use him enough for him to be worth the points at 500... but he's an awesome Cadian commander, so you'll have to tell me how it turns out.

Will do. He should do even better in larger games when I Valkyrie-drop his squad right behind a tank.

In all honesty, I'd drop the Medic from the list but I put a lot of work into his conversion and I don't want him to go to waste. The countercharge-oriented PCS seemed like the best place for Feel No Pain.

Boltgun for commander somewhat fits the role of mid-long range support. There's a link to this army's painting and modeling blog in my sig; I'm posting a group shot of the whole army tonight.