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*EDIT LIST* *EDIT LIST* * EDIT LIST*



ok new list:

Ghaz- 225

Mek- burna KFF bosspole (keeping the model this way i already have him converted and painted)

15 kommandos- 2 burnas- 265
Snikkrot

15 burna boys- 225

18 slugga boyz- nob pk bosspole- 148

20 slugga boyz- nob pk bosspole- 160

12 slugga poys- nob pk bosspole- 112
trukk- red paint ram- 45


12 slugga poys- nob pk bosspole- 112
trukk- red paint ram- 45


12 slugga poys- nob pk bosspole- 112
trukk- red paint ram- 45


battle wagon- deff rolla, armor plates, big shoota- 125

battle wagon- deff rolla, armor plates, big shoota- 125

battle wagon- deff rolla, armor plates, big shoota- 125

puts me at 1984, to drop to 1850 id just remove one of the trukk boy squads


thoughts?

You pay the same points for a kombi shoota as a twin-linked shoota for the nobz, I would take that as you don't need to relie on the orks poor ballistic skill to hit.

If ghazgkull goes with the nobz, and their transport gets popped then that entire unit moves at the slowest pace of the slowest model, ghazgkull, which has slow and purposeful - bad times. Best with some meganobz really as they have SnP already, or a warboss.

I don't rate kommandos. Cost too much and 6+ armour save out in the open.

Seems ok apart from very little anti tank. You will struggle with armour.

Make sure to AT LEAST equip your PK nobs differently so that you don't end up pulling them off in droves.

Also, I like the idea but it doesn't seem to have much synergy. The 24" killkannons are your only shooty element. The Burna Boyz are a hybrid as they can be nasty as hell in CC as well. So, the place you WANT to be, especially with Ghaz as your general, is in combat. The Killkannons contradict that. Instead of moving 13" a turn to get to combat as fast as possible you are going to be moving 7" giving them twice the amount of time to shoot at you and ruin your plans.

If I were you I would drop the Killkannons and use the points to put Deff Rollas on ALL your BW, Then, with spare points put some Big Shootas on your BW's to protect against "Weapon Destroyed" results, as if you have no weapons when you suffer a "Weapon Destroyed" you become immobilized, which is your worst nightmare against a shooty list.

Just some thoughts from someone who has played these style of lists for a long time .

Here is what I would change

HQ

Ghaz
Big Mek-Choppa KFF (left off the burna because he is just there for a spare BP and the KFF save for vehicles on the ride in. If he dies when you reach combat it doesn't matter, and if you put him in a killy unit his Burna attacks will end up being wasted more often than not)

Elite

Burna Boyz (15)
Kommandos (10)- Burna x2 & Snikrot

Troop

Nobz(10)- Painboy, Cybork Bodies, equipment as follows:
1. Choppa, Slugga
2. Choppa Slugga, BP
3. Choppa, Slugga, Waaagh Banner
4. PK, Combi-Skorcha
5. PK, Combi-Skorcha, BP
6. PK, Slugga
7. Big Choppa, Slugga
8. Big Choppa, Slugga, BP
9. Big Choppa, Combi-Skorcha

Boyz (20)- Nob, PK, BP
Boyz (20)- Nob, PK, BP

Heavy

(normally I put rams on my vehicles and leave off the Armor Plates because they cost too much for what they do; however, your BW's now HAVE to move tank shock people to do their damage, and depending on your area, ram vehicles. Moving means killing so Armor Plates become highly important. The Big Shoota there is just to soak up the first weapon destroyed result. )

BW- Deffrolla, Big Shoota, Red Paint, Armored Plates
BW- Deffrolla, Big Shoota, Red Paint, Armored Plates
BW- Deffrolla, Big Shoota, Red Paint, Armored Plates

2000 on the nose

thanks for the feed back

the battle wagons dont have killkannons they just have the regular kannon.

also in your lisy kej, you only have 3 battle wagons listed, did you mean to put a forth as the transport for the nobz and ghaz?

i do see what you mean about changing the load out on the PK nobz, advice taken.

i can downgrade the kannon to big shoota, but i just figured id have a better time hitting if i did shoot with it ( the blast of course)

i will find a way to upgrade them all to armor plates, i will probably thin out the kommandos some

Sorry, there was supposed to be another BW under the Nobs Or there was supposed to be. I did it on my army builder at home and I am at school now.

I could have left it out but I am pretty sure that I had it in there.

If you are REALLY tight on points I would drop the red paint and use those points towards the plates. 1" when it cost 3 points in the last codex was a bargain. At 5 it is overcosting it's benefits imho. You can leave it in there for fluff reasons, or if you just really like it, but I tend to run mine without it anymore.

*cracks his knuckles in preparation of typing*

First of all zachwho, congratulations. If you read around this forum, at the various ork army lists posted, you can usually see me screaming at Ork players to find a theme and run with it instead of trying to hodge-podge a bunch of different army elements together into a list.

You've picked mechanized assault, which is my personal favorite Ork army list. I run it very often, I pretty much always win, and the reason why will be readily apparent when you play it and apply basic principles of warfare; the best one that applies here is flank and maneuver. I like nothing better than for my opponent to spread their army list across their table edge while my entire army plunks down in a solid compact square, trundles up the table, and my opponent has willingly let me engage a portion of their army. Spread across the table, and you tackle a bare section of it, its 1850 vs. 500 points. You win. After that, numerical superiority is in your favor, and its a mop up operation.

I played in a tournament a few weeks ago where the purpose of one of the games was to retrieve a model in the middle of the table, then make it back to your board edge with that model in tow. You couldn't put it in a vehicle, and you couldn't run during your shooting phase with the model in tow, and if you engaged in close combat, you dropped the model. My mechanized ork army runs up to the middle of the board, deploys out to screen the model while a unit of trukk boyz snatches it and starts working back to the table edge....my opponent moves his fast units up into the mix to try getting it away from me, and I voluntarily dropped it, turned around and freakin' pummeled half his army with my entire army, at which points I've got 1850 points left on the table to his 900 or so.

Anyway, specific advice:

1. Ghazghkull is probably the single most powerful model in all of 40k; a 2+ invulnerable save and a full round of fearless for the whole army, in conjunction with an auto-six on the Waaaugh! means that units deployed in vehicles have a 27" assault range. If you didn't know that, lemme repeat: TWENTY-SEVEN INCHES OF ASSAULT RANGE. Its YOU that gets to decide where to fight, and who to engage, and in what combination. Fantastic choice; much of your army list looks just like mine.

2. Mek with a KFF, rock it. For the time being, please take off his burna and bosspole. I think your points can be more effectively spent; this guy's only purpose is to give your fleet of vehicles a 4+ obscure save.

3. The nob unit with Ghazghkull: I ran this for a long time, and this unit can kill anything in 40k, but I've stopped taking them. Here's why: Ghazghkull attached to the Nobs is simply the wrong mix of powerful. These guys on the assault get I4, so at best you'll go simultaneously with space marines. A lot of stuff will go first. This ridiculously powerful and point-expensive unit can simply wipe the floor with pretty much any MEQ, and you should do so. The problem is that if you send Ghazghkull into that mix, he's wasted. That 2+ invulnerable save and 7 attacks on the charge needs to be directed at a monstrous creature, or a land raider, or squad of terminators. But if the nobs are with him, then those terminators, monstrous creatures, whatever are going to lay into your nobs and ignore Ghazghkull until the 2+ invulnerable save is gone.

Does that make sense? Time and testing will give you the same results, and you'll end up deploying Ghazghkull separately and having him assault something different than the Nobs, then hopefully having them assault into the rear of whatever Ghazghkull is tying up.

4. And then....I discovered the burna boyz. Burna boyz solved the problem of how to take down monstrous creatures and big masses of MEQs. I used to HATE fighting Nidzilla lists because they would tear up anything I attacked them with. Burna Boyz and a unit of individually equipped nobs are equally powerful means of dealing with nasty stuff. I would contest that they don't belong in the same army list however. Both are powerful, but in this case, the redundancy would be better applied elsewhere.

5. If you are going to use a nob unit, here's the "perfect solution" that I've come up with: Its as few points as possible while optimizing effectiveness:
1. Pain Boy
2. Waaaugh! Banner
3. Bosspole
4. Powerklaw
5. Powerklaw + Ammo runt
6. Powerklaw + Kombi-Skorcha
7. Big Choppa
8. Big choppa + Ammo Runt
9. Big Choppa + Kombi-skorcha
10. Normal Nob

Give them all 'Eavy armor, and they have a 4+ armor and 4+ Feel no pain. However, I would urge you to drop cybork bodies. I would posit that an intelligent ork player will pretty much never be in a situation to *need* a 5+ invulnerable save...here's why. Your nobs start in a battlewagon and need no saves. As they trundle and bounce their way up the field, they're in an AV14 front armor vehicle, which is getting 4+ cover saves from the Big Mek with the KFF who is in 6", and the sides of the battlewagon are protected by other battlewagons or trukks, meaning that there are no side armor shots against you. If you work out a lascannon shot; between the rolls to hit, glance/penetrate, cover save, damage chart....the chances of a lascannon shot meaningfully affecting you are less than 3%. Melta doesn't really matter. On Turn2+, you have a 27" assault range, and if someone meltas you, you're in range to assault anyway. So your Nobs are in a vehicle until it either A.) gets blown up or B.) You voluntarily get out to assault.

If A Happens, you get 4+ armor saves. The battlewagon either gets wrecked or exploded. If its exploded you're in 4+ cover from the wreckage and crater, and if its destroyed, you can deploy behind and around it to give yourself either 4+ cover or denied visibility. Either way, you have at worst a 4+ save. Beyond that, as you work to get into close combat you can either move from cover to cover, or dump someone less important out of their vehicle and put the nobs into it. You STILL have no need of a 5+ invulnerable save.

That just leaves close combat. With a 27" assault range, YOU decide what to assault. Since you have Ghazghkull and burnas to deal with really scary things that ignore armor saves, you can spend your Nobs wisely on MEQs and things without massed powerweapons. Just no reason to take it on this unit in a mechanized list.

6. Deff Rollas: This is a touchy issue. Every store works differently, and before you get attached to using them, find out how your local tournament organizer or store owner rules on this. If they say that Deff Rollas don't work against vehicles, don't waste the points and take reinforced rams instead. If they say that they do work (and I honestly think the rules support this) then take them by all means.

7. Battlewagon weaponry: As an assault transport, you're going to be going 13" pretty much every turn until you get into close combat, which means that you're not doing a whole lot of shooty. Kannons are 10 points, Big shootas are 5 points, and you NEED to have something to offset "weapon destroyed" results, which is pretty much the only reason to put guns on these. I'd take the kannons off and put in a big shoota or two. A big mek CAN repair weapon destroyed and immobilized results; tacking a grot oiler or two in there makes that 4+ more likely because of your re-rolls.

8. Kommandos: Pay no mind to heathens telling you that Kommandos aren't worth it. Think of it like meta-gaming....having him in your list is a psychological advantage because it makes your opponent fear the table edges, meaning that they'll deploy closer to you, meaning you get to assault sooner. The board edge is 48" across. If they give up some of their rear and move closer to you, you have more wiggle room for getting stuff into assault together. However, this is honestly a unit where you either take 15 of them and 2 burnas, or you don't take them. Excepting Snikrot, these guys are I3 on the charge, meaning that you're not going first 99% of the time. You need survivability to stick around and WIN the combat you get into. Take 14 Kommandos, two burnas and Snikrot. The other day in a tournament, Snikrot came on the back table edge and tackled Eldrad and a squad of dark reapers set up in cover to snipe across the table at me the whole game. I ate them up tastily. Heavy weapon teams, IG anything, rear tank armor on anything that doesn't say landraider or monolith....these guys belong in an assault list.

9. I have a disagreement with you about your choice of vehicles and boyz. In a shooty list, dropping 3 battlewagons on the rear table edge, filling them up with Lootas, lots of dakka and a KFF is a lolwut situation. In an assault list, you need to get the most bang for your buck that you can. Honestly, that's trukks. In my humble opinion, the purpose of the battlewagon in an assault list is to protect your expensive units and make your opponent choose between the lesser of two evils: Do they try popping your battlewagons to halt the stuff that will kill them easily, or do they try popping your trukks to stop the swarm approaching? With a Mek and a KFF giving 4+ cover saves, popping trukks isn't quite as easy as it should be. I think you need less battlewagons and more trukks. If you LIKE this and refuse to change, then I'd say this: Get an answer to the deff rolla question in your local circle. I take boarding planks on pretty much all my vehicles, and 50/50 take grabbin' klaws on my battlewagons.

10. Grabbin' Klaws and Boarding Planks: Deff Rollas are great against vehicles, but there are a lot of skimmers out there. Landspeeders, anything Tau or Eldar, even frikkin' monoliths. They avoid ramming on a 3+, IE have a 66% chance of avoiding your Deffrolla. Boarding planks are the key to my anti-tank. If I pop a squad of trukk boyz (12 boyz, nob+PK) out of a trukk, assault a vehicle and explode it, they roll 12 dice, and any 5+ wounds me, for a pretty guaranteed dead Ork. And if you're assaulting a transport, you're probably going to get counter-assaulted and wiped out; Orks not on the charge are worthless. Thus the boarding plank. One Ork (read: Nob with a powerklaw) gets to make all their attacks as if they were disembarked and charging. Ghazghkull can pull up next to a land raider, drop 7 STR10 hits on it without even getting out. Nobs can drop 4 STR9 hits. That's pretty potent. Grabbin' klaws are for star engines, skimmers...pretty much anything.

Picture this: Ghazghkull pulls up next to a land raider that moved 12" and takes 7 swings at it. You need a 6 to hit because it moved at cruising speed. Statistically with 7 attacks, you have a 100% chance of getting at least one hit, but chesson dice which 99% of the 40k world uses have curved edges and a non-statistical rolling pattern; they roll 10% more 1s than they should (you can find all that information elsewhere on this site). Then Ghazzy needs a 4 to glance, 5 to penetrate. Tight odds even for him. Stick a grabbin' klaw on that Land Raider and its going nowhere fast. Where you going? NOWHERE! That's where you're going. Now you auto-hit 7 times, and the chances of you turning it into scrap metal are exponentially higher.

11. Most tournaments are 1750 or 1850, or even 1500. 2000 points seems a little strange. If you sub out battlewagons for trukks, pick either burnas or your individually equipped nob squad (I use burnas), you've got a nigh-invincible armylist.

A note on tactics: Use it like a wrecking ball. With your massive assault range, you will always pick where the fight starts and ends, and who's involved. Slam your entire army into a section of your enemy. You'll learn over time how much you can tackle, and who to use for which jobs. In an objective game, I don't go take objectives until the last turn or two. Trukks can go 19" with red paint, which can cover a lot of board. In the meantime, I'll let my opponent split their forces up to go sit on objectives and my entire army is going to slam into each of those split up pieces like a wrecking ball and take them apart piecemeal. And you can use those battlewagons and trukks to screen you from counter-assaults all the while.

12. If you have spare points (and a spare heavy support by this point) try a couple of deffkoptas or killa-kans. Killa-kans are excellent for taking down monstrous creatures (dread close combat weapon is STR10), as well as deep striking dreadnoughts and terminators. Nothing sucks more than moving your whole army in a tight cluster to the middle of the field, then having a unit of terminators with meltas or a dreadnought deep strike behind you. Then you have to decide whether to go back for them, or split your army up, or ignore them completely and take it in the rear. Personally, I don't like it in the rear, and I hope you don't either. A killa kan or two trudging up the table behind you is a great way to handle that deep striking / outflanking unit. Alternatively, taking a Deffkopta (with TL rokkits) is a great way to deliver long cylindrical death up your opponent's rear. If you do it, don't bother with Buzzsaws; paying 25 points for a powerklaw that gets a STR7 hit on the charge is wasted. By turn2 or 3 in a mechanized list (when your deffkopta reserves would come onto the table anyway) the rest of your army is going to be in assault range of any vehicles on the table anyway.

Here's my rough army list for 1850:

Ghazghkull+18 boyz in a battlewagon
Mek with a KFF + 15 burna boyz in a battlewagon
Snikrot + 15 kommandos and two burnas.
The rest of my points: 12 boyz + a nob and powerklaw in trukks. Either 4 units of 5 units depending on wargear, deffrolla, mood, etc.

That list handily cleans up pretty much anyone I play (by luck, skill, or whatever they havne't lost to true mechanized IG yet either).

I hope I've pumped you up to play Orks and for your mechanized list. I love my Tau, and believe it or not win consistently with them, but I've absolutely fallen for my wife's Orks; they're capable of so many different play styles and themes that you can basically play Orks and do what any other army can do and even better. You can be as shooty as Tau or IG, as assaulty as anyone else, as mega-unit as a terminator army....

They're awesome. Hope you enjoy what I wrote.

First reaction (to OP):

"Holy Battlewagons, Batman!"

Second reaction (to Dash of Pepper):

"Holy Wall-of-Text, Batman!"

I'm trying to decide which was more shocking...

Dude, you've been around for a while. =p

You've seen and posted in my other threads, and even had your own army lists taken apart by me. Why the surprise?

swine flu hit me with double sixes lol


thanks you so much dash, your input is well recieved and i will play test alot of different battle wagon rush lists and see what i like best.

Dashofpepper wrote:The forum equivalent to The Story of the Vivian Girls, in What is known as the Realms of the Unreal, of the Glandeco-Angelinnian War Storm, Caused by the Child Slave Rebellion

OP would do well to print that out.

Also now that you've posted the ultimate Battlewagon spam list, how would you stop it Dash?

I don't think two battlewagons count as battlewagon spam. In terms of stopping this list....when I play Tau, I use a static gunline that has 6+ twin-linked railguns, and markerlights remove cover saves; that means I lol away the KFF. IG have plenty of anti-tank, and the Collosus(?) and other weaponry ignore cover saves. I would focus all fire on the Battlewagon that has the Mek with the KFF, then dump firepower into his unit until he dies. IF that takes an entire army's turn of shooting, it will have been well-spent.

After that, its a game of shoot and maneuver. Want to stop Ghazghkull and a bunch of nobs from spilling out of a battlewagon and eating you? Run your own vehicle up and physically roadblock part of that force. Devilfish, wave serpent, rhino, whatever. Force the wrecking ball to split. Dump out a unit of infantry, and have them completely surround the battlewagon, and have a melta-bomb in there. Suddenly the Battlewagon can't move without ramming or tank shocking, and you can laugh off the ram because of range, and attempt a melta strike against the battlewagon if it tries getting through your infantry, but the goal is to stop your opponent from deploying out of the battlewagon.

Once you disembark a mechanized ork list, groups of 12 orks (6 point models) aren't exactly scary unless they're charging into combat together. Pop a trukk here and there. =p

The army you play and the list you built is unique in how it can kill mechanized orks, and it does require tactical play to do so. I'd venture that 90% of 40k gamers more or less deploy their forces on the table, and start rolling dice, with some minimal strategic consideration outside of looking for opponent weaknesses and terrain advantages, which are important too; Finesse is the word I'm looking for. Most of 40k is just bashing at each other with dice rolls (unless you're dark eldar) and doesn't require any particular finesse to win.

Adding a bit will go a long way towards stomping that list.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Give them all 'Eavy armor, and they have a 4+ armor and 4+ Feel no pain. However, I would urge you to drop cybork bodies. I would posit that an intelligent ork player will pretty much never be in a situation to *need* a 5+ invulnerable save...here's why. Your nobs start in a battlewagon and need no saves. As they trundle and bounce their way up the field, they're in an AV14 front armor vehicle, which is getting 4+ cover saves from the Big Mek with the KFF who is in 6", and the sides of the battlewagon are protected by other battlewagons or trukks, meaning that there are no side armor shots against you. If you work out a lascannon shot; between the rolls to hit, glance/penetrate, cover save, damage chart....the chances of a lascannon shot meaningfully affecting you are less than 3%. Melta doesn't really matter. On Turn2+, you have a 27" assault range, and if someone meltas you, you're in range to assault anyway. So your Nobs are in a vehicle until it either A.) gets blown up or B.) You voluntarily get out to assault.

I agree with everything BUT the above statement. 4+ Armor Saves are moot when "Free" heavy weapons deny you the points you have spent. 5++ Cybork is leaps and bounds better because 99% of the time it will NEVER be taken away. Then you will almost always have a 5++/4+ FNP instead of a 25% of the time 4+/4+. Also, anything that would deny you your FNP save is already going to ignore your measly 4+ armor save so why waste points on buying armor that does no good against the weapons that people will be focus firing on your nobs..

Cybork bodies, for the same cost, are WAY better.

I'm presuming the nobz are one unit. Add eavy armour and a painboy. The 4th battle wagon, is for the burna boyz right?? Drop the BW and 3 burna boyz and use a trukk instead, use the points free to get some more boyz.

Otherwise it is a good list. Nice start.

Kej wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

Give them all 'Eavy armor, and they have a 4+ armor and 4+ Feel no pain. However, I would urge you to drop cybork bodies. I would posit that an intelligent ork player will pretty much never be in a situation to *need* a 5+ invulnerable save...here's why. Your nobs start in a battlewagon and need no saves. As they trundle and bounce their way up the field, they're in an AV14 front armor vehicle, which is getting 4+ cover saves from the Big Mek with the KFF who is in 6", and the sides of the battlewagon are protected by other battlewagons or trukks, meaning that there are no side armor shots against you. If you work out a lascannon shot; between the rolls to hit, glance/penetrate, cover save, damage chart....the chances of a lascannon shot meaningfully affecting you are less than 3%. Melta doesn't really matter. On Turn2+, you have a 27" assault range, and if someone meltas you, you're in range to assault anyway. So your Nobs are in a vehicle until it either A.) gets blown up or B.) You voluntarily get out to assault.

I agree with everything BUT the above statement. 4+ Armor Saves are moot when "Free" heavy weapons deny you the points you have spent. 5++ Cybork is leaps and bounds better because 99% of the time it will NEVER be taken away. Then you will almost always have a 5++/4+ FNP instead of a 25% of the time 4+/4+. Also, anything that would deny you your FNP save is already going to ignore your measly 4+ armor save so why waste points on buying armor that does no good against the weapons that people will be focus firing on your nobs..

Cybork bodies, for the same cost, are WAY better.

I respectfully disagree with your disagreement. I think that makes you agree with me, right?

I think you're missing the point I made; the "free" heavy weapons that are AP4 or better are irrelevant. For even a half-witted Ork player, the only time an invulnerable save on a group of nobs should be meaningful is when someone shoots a cover ignoring weapon at them that is AP4 or better, and in close combat against what better be the sergeant equivalent who is the lone power weapon toting character. Those two small opportunities don't justify taking cybork bodies on these guys, for all the reasons that I specifically explained, instructed, laid out scenarios for....I don't know what else to say....except to say it again:

Nobs in a battlewagon aren't getting shot at. Nobs who get shot out of their battlewagon are getting a 4+ cover save and possibly FNP or not getting shot at. Nobs assaulting a unit are getting 4+ armor saves and 4+ FNP unless there's an upgrade character with a power weapon.

If YOUR nob squad is in any situation other than one of those three, you're using them poorly. If you're going to send a nob squad to attack a monstrous creature, or a terminator squad, or something that can put serious hurting on them instead of using regular boyz or burnas, or Ghazghkull, or ...the list goes on....then you deserve what happens.

LIST MOVED TO TOP

Edit for your first list, and tag it *edited list* so that we're not scrolling down the page. ><

*EDIT*

Also, much better list you have there. The Mek with the KFF doesn't need a bosspole. Even if its modeled on, just don't include it as wargear. This guy should be in your battlewagon, and not get out unless he gets shot out - the burna boyz will be flying solo and no worse for the wear for doing so.

Armor plates on your battlewagons aren't so useful. Give them red paint instead! You NEED to have red paint to get yourself into close combat an inch or something faster.

i have the points to spare to add red paint


meks not changing lol not happening i dont want my burnas running hes with the burnas



edit spelling

I run the same setup - my Mek with a KFF is inside the battlewagon with my burnas. That Mek with the KFF is keeping all your vehicles alive. If you dump your Big mek out with your burnas, he's now a targetable IC that will get killed easily in close combat. And then your vehicles no longer have 4+ cover saves.

You don't need to send your Big mek along with your burna boyz - just use them wisely. You're going to pretty much always get the charge, and you get to decide where your forces attack, and whom. Just don't waste your burna boyz.

honestly i dont plan on them getting out awhole lot im thinking of using the drive by flaming tactic, thats gonna be hilarious!

Some of my greatest drive-by assassinations:

(also a note): Tank shocking into a unit to get them into the formation you want to flame is helpful.

-Two terminator squads next to each other; got nine under my template and caused 135 wounds. Statistically he should fail 21.6 of them and lose all 10 terminators; all but one died.

-Mad Dok Grotsnik was leading a 30 man unit of 'Ard Boyz across a bridge over water bisecting the board. I tank shocked into the front of the horde....30 guys with 4+ armor and FNP. Template covers 22 of them and causes 165 wounds. Mad Dok is the lone survivor, who assaults my rear armor and fails to hit, then gets nuked in return my following turn.

-Dawn of War game; opponent gets first go and deploys 1 HQ and two troops: A tricked up demon prince and a squad of 20 plague marines (T5, FNP). My battlewagon full of burna boyz rolls onto the board with the rest of my army, spends another turn getting up to the plague marines, and kills all but two of them with a a single salvo. The following turn, my battlewagon speeds forwards 13", my burna boyz dump out and multi-assault two units of obliterators and kill all but one that combat, finishing off the last the following combat. They were then eaten by one of those spider-legged things.

-Tyranid opponent is playing Nidzillas + outflanking genestealers; 3 units of genestealers outflank on one side next to each other, and my burnas in their battlewagon manage to catch elements of two of the units under template and wipe them both. Next turn then deployed out, multi-assaulted a Hive Tyrant and a Carnifex and a squad of three of those snake-looking things that sit upright and killed the whole mess.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Kej wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

Give them all 'Eavy armor, and they have a 4+ armor and 4+ Feel no pain. However, I would urge you to drop cybork bodies. I would posit that an intelligent ork player will pretty much never be in a situation to *need* a 5+ invulnerable save...here's why. Your nobs start in a battlewagon and need no saves. As they trundle and bounce their way up the field, they're in an AV14 front armor vehicle, which is getting 4+ cover saves from the Big Mek with the KFF who is in 6", and the sides of the battlewagon are protected by other battlewagons or trukks, meaning that there are no side armor shots against you. If you work out a lascannon shot; between the rolls to hit, glance/penetrate, cover save, damage chart....the chances of a lascannon shot meaningfully affecting you are less than 3%. Melta doesn't really matter. On Turn2+, you have a 27" assault range, and if someone meltas you, you're in range to assault anyway. So your Nobs are in a vehicle until it either A.) gets blown up or B.) You voluntarily get out to assault.

I agree with everything BUT the above statement. 4+ Armor Saves are moot when "Free" heavy weapons deny you the points you have spent. 5++ Cybork is leaps and bounds better because 99% of the time it will NEVER be taken away. Then you will almost always have a 5++/4+ FNP instead of a 25% of the time 4+/4+. Also, anything that would deny you your FNP save is already going to ignore your measly 4+ armor save so why waste points on buying armor that does no good against the weapons that people will be focus firing on your nobs..

Cybork bodies, for the same cost, are WAY better.

I respectfully disagree with your disagreement. I think that makes you agree with me, right?

I think you're missing the point I made; the "free" heavy weapons that are AP4 or better are irrelevant. For even a half-witted Ork player, the only time an invulnerable save on a group of nobs should be meaningful is when someone shoots a cover ignoring weapon at them that is AP4 or better, and in close combat against what better be the sergeant equivalent who is the lone power weapon toting character. Those two small opportunities don't justify taking cybork bodies on these guys, for all the reasons that I specifically explained, instructed, laid out scenarios for....I don't know what else to say....except to say it again:

Nobs in a battlewagon aren't getting shot at. Nobs who get shot out of their battlewagon are getting a 4+ cover save and possibly FNP or not getting shot at. Nobs assaulting a unit are getting 4+ armor saves and 4+ FNP unless there's an upgrade character with a power weapon.

If YOUR nob squad is in any situation other than one of those three, you're using them poorly. If you're going to send a nob squad to attack a monstrous creature, or a terminator squad, or something that can put serious hurting on them instead of using regular boyz or burnas, or Ghazghkull, or ...the list goes on....then you deserve what happens.

I disagree with your disagreement of the disagrement of your original statement.....I think?

4+/4+ is way to easy to get around, whereas the 5++/4+ is not. Not sure about the points costs personally, but from what I read they are equivalent. I know as an Eldar player, I'm not worrying about the FNP or regular save on things that I really want to end. That is what Fire Prism and Banshees are for. I think the other poster got it right, and you got it wrong(Come on Dash, it DOES happen...don't go flamer on the guy).

I'm gooing to be honest never played orks never playied against them yet. Also only read there codex twice so feel free to disreguard what i say. As far as i see trukks epic fail and the amount of points they are can make you bounce up those boyz.

Well most people will automatically shoot at Gaz first turn if he's with 30 boyz then hey he's surviving. All moving and running first turn. Second turn yay 18 inches of DOOOOOOM.
Just don't let him get charged turn 1 by lightning claw terminators, yes my friends just epic fail i can't help it.......

Ripister wrote:I'm gooing to be honest never played orks never playied against them yet. Also only read there codex twice so feel free to disreguard what i say. As far as i see trukks epic fail and the amount of points they are can make you bounce up those boyz.

Well most people will automatically shoot at Gaz first turn if he's with 30 boyz then hey he's surviving. All moving and running first turn. Second turn yay 18 inches of DOOOOOOM.
Just don't let him get charged turn 1 by lightning claw terminators, yes my friends just epic fail i can't help it.......

Wow. You've never played as orks and you've never played against Orks, but you feel justified in telling us exactly what about orks is epic fail. Dude, I think you just defined epic fail in itself.

Dashofpepper wrote: I don't like it in the rear, and I hope you don't either. Although it's great to deliver long cylindrical death up your opponent's rear.

QFT!

This is going in my siggy.

Ripister wrote:I'm gooing to be honest never played orks never playied against them yet. Also only read there codex twice so feel free to disreguard what i say. As far as i see trukks epic fail and the amount of points they are can make you bounce up those boyz.

Well most people will automatically shoot at Gaz first turn if he's with 30 boyz then hey he's surviving. All moving and running first turn. Second turn yay 18 inches of DOOOOOOM.
Just don't let him get charged turn 1 by lightning claw terminators, yes my friends just epic fail i can't help it.......

You're so so right! You've grasped the essence of Orks with only a brief read of the codex! I bow to your wisdom!

I'm bumping this thread because there's a BUNCH of Ork lists that just popped into being and all the advice here applies to all of those guys who need to read this thread. ><

This thread is awesome, thanks again for spending the time to explain how you play your orks Dash. It's always a good read.

Yeah, this thread is awesome. I love the ork tactic novels that spew out occasionally. I do have 2 really minor points, though:

1) 7 attacks hitting on 6's have about a 72% chance of landing at least 1, not 100%. My most common opponent plays IG, so I really wish you were right about that one.

2) If you "almost always win," find some new competition, or try to work with your opponents to make them better. Doesn't that get boring?

Anyway, thanks for sharing the detailed game plan. It's always nice to see something well thought out instead of "don't take these because they suck."

dash of pepper has changed my life lol

Milk, winning is good, especially seeing as he plays in tournaments. Besides you can have a good time winning every game if you play with cool people.