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So, ive reached an impass with someone running a 40k Leauge. His claim is that my Space Wolf units MUST be used as Blood Claws, because the majority are modeled with BP/CCWs. I modeled them with the intention of using them as Grey Hunters, I just greatly prefer the BP/CCW design and modeled them that way, with the occasional "True Grit" Bolter/CCW thrown into the mix. Grey Hunters have BP/CCWs as part of their wargear, and I didnt forsee a problem.

So whats everyones take on this? Is he wrong to force me to use them as Blood Claws? Am I wrong to want to use them as Grey Hunters?

Are they armed with legal weapon options allowed by the Codex? Looks like it to me. I think your organizer needs to lighten up.

Lighten up or read the codex, all SW troop choices come with BP and CCW, GH also tote a bolter.

Dan wrote:So, ive reached an impass with someone running a 40k Leauge. His claim is that my Space Wolf units MUST be used as Blood Claws, because the majority are modeled with BP/CCWs. I modeled them with the intention of using them as Grey Hunters, I just greatly prefer the BP/CCW design and modeled them that way, with the occasional "True Grit" Bolter/CCW thrown into the mix. Grey Hunters have BP/CCWs as part of their wargear, and I didnt forsee a problem.

So whats everyones take on this? Is he wrong to force me to use them as Blood Claws? Am I wrong to want to use them as Grey Hunters?

Grey Hunters come armed with BP, CCW and Bolters. So modeling a majority with BP and CCW and sprinkling a few Bolters is perfectly WYSIWYG. Nevertheless, it is his League and ultimately you may have to abide by his "house" rules if you want to play.

Hmm yah his league but guy needs to take a chill pill, seems like everyones thinking along the same lines here. You seem to be will within YOUR rights with YOUR army.

The models are still WYSIWYG.
Obviously they will also be detailed as such in the army list.

all i see is a person who hasnt bothered to read the pups dex as it all checks out fine

Id tell him to stick his BP up his whiney ass tbh, ive model'd my greyhunters with bolter's and ccw's for the simple fact they look cool as. The guy obviously fears your grey hunters which i dont blame him they are a mean force may i ask what he is running?

Just a thought after my last post.
I think all greys should be made this way

I think mixing the weapons they have shows they are actually greys rather than claws, and helps make it even more WYSIWYG.
Also, maybe he has something against people who take out the time to make models that look good?
Me thinks he simply follows the instructions on every box when building an army

Simple solution: Get some thread, make a sling on a half dozen Bolters, spray them silver, hang them on some of your GHs for the purposes of this moron's tournament.

Take them off afterwards.

You win.

But, word of advice: If he's being this much of a toolshed now, that should tell you something about playing in his tournament. Don't bother trying to fix him, just avoid him.

yea i agree with phryxis if this has been a problem such a petty thing, more then likely there will be more. Id have great pleasure telling him to JOG ON

Just let him know of his error, and show him that they are indeed, WYSIWYG and therefore WILL NOT be used differently. If he makes a stink still, tell him loudly, that every other army should be forfeit as well, simply because they too are WYSIWYG.

agreed. they are completely WYSIWIG with every weapon they have displayed in their equipment list. i can understand that he might PREFER to have blood claws with bp/ccw and grey hunters with bolters in order to easier tell them apart. if that is the basis for his ruling, simply mark the units that are grey hunters some other obvious way (via shoulder/knee pad colors or even a grey paint blob on the side of the base). if that doesn't work, tell him to post on dakka where everyone disagrees with him.

I agree with everyone. They are perfectly legal and I see no problem with them. Wait have you ever wondered if HE had the problem? But that idiot sounds like a real whiney lil' piss-ass and you usually can't change people like that. And warboss is right. THE MIGHT OF DAKKA IS AT YOUR SIDE!!!!!1!!!1!!!11!1111

KingCracker wrote:If he makes a stink still, tell him loudly, that every other army should be forfeit as well

Agreed!!! very loudly and if all else fails wip out your power sword and smite the fool down.

I would point out where it is legal in my dex... and if he still complains then id tell him to shove it up his 4th point of contact. As long as the models are codex legal, you can mod them up any way you want.

screw him. Its wysiwyg, thats the best you can ask for.

Hell, make your next squad weilding all one handed bolters and bolt pistols, that will really piss him off....

Thanks for all the replys everyone! I will try and reason with him about the models the next time I see him.

You are wrong to not remove mold lines before painting your Marines. Flagellate yourself now. We'll tell you when to stop.

Glue a boltgun onto the models back.

jamunition wrote:Glue a boltgun to his face.

fixed

Look at almost all space marine players. Does every model have bolt pistols? Krak and Frag grenades? No, because GW doesn't give you enough bolt pistols to do that with the models. There always has to be a little leway with WYSIWYSG.

Show him the Models stat line undeneath the grey hunters section of the list...put your finger under bolt pistol.

Read him this quote from the grand tournament rules.

The army must be WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get). This means that weapons, armor options, and upgrades chosen from the army list must be shown on characters and a majority of the models in a unit or squad.

Ask him when you chose to put bolt pistols from the army list, because they come with them automatically, just like they come with bolters...in their stat line.

Dan wrote:So, ive reached an impass with someone running a 40k Leauge.

It isn't a 40K league. It is a map based campaign we are playing FOR FUN. You weren't invited to play it. Please stop crying about it to other random people on the internet.

Dan wrote:His claim is that my Space Wolf units MUST be used as Blood Claws, because the majority are modeled with BP/CCWs.

Two of the models in your entire army are modeled with a Bolter on them at all. Every other model that isn't those two, or wielding a heavy weapon of some kind, is wielding a BP/CCW. That leaves... 2 with bolters ever. So yes, a "majority" in this case is well over 90%.

Dan wrote:I modeled them with the intention of using them as Grey Hunters, I just greatly prefer the BP/CCW design and modeled them that way

Uh huh...

Dan wrote:, with the occasional "True Grit" Bolter/CCW thrown into the mix.

Two of them... ever.

Dan wrote:Grey Hunters have BP/CCWs as part of their wargear, and I didnt forsee a problem.

I've read the codex. The store owner GAVE me a copy of the codex so that SOMEBODY would be able to keep your gak straight. Your constant cheating has become somewhat of a problem in EVERY league you have participated in. You're not being given any leeway with WYSIWYG because of your horrendous past.

Dan wrote:So whats everyones take on this? Is he wrong to force me to use them as Blood Claws?

I'm not forcing you to do gak. I'm just telling you that you can't play.

Dan wrote: Am I wrong to want to use them as Grey Hunters?

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Aduro wrote:Are they armed with legal weapon options allowed by the Codex? Looks like it to me. I think your organizer needs to lighten up.

Normally I would agree with you, but not in this case.




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InquisitorFabius wrote:Lighten up or read the codex, all SW troop choices come with BP and CCW, GH also tote a bolter.

I'm aware of what they have. I googled around a bit and everything... although every picture I found was of Grey Hunters with a Bolter of some kind, and Blood Claws were modeled BP/CCW. *shrug*


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wyomingfox wrote:

Dan wrote:So, ive reached an impass with someone running a 40k Leauge. His claim is that my Space Wolf units MUST be used as Blood Claws, because the majority are modeled with BP/CCWs. I modeled them with the intention of using them as Grey Hunters, I just greatly prefer the BP/CCW design and modeled them that way, with the occasional "True Grit" Bolter/CCW thrown into the mix. Grey Hunters have BP/CCWs as part of their wargear, and I didnt forsee a problem.

So whats everyones take on this? Is he wrong to force me to use them as Blood Claws? Am I wrong to want to use them as Grey Hunters?

Grey Hunters come armed with BP, CCW and Bolters. So modeling a majority with BP and CCW and sprinkling a few Bolters is perfectly WYSIWYG. Nevertheless, it is his League and ultimately you may have to abide by his "house" rules if you want to play.

Right except he has two bolters in his entire army. not really a "sprinkling" especially when it is in 3 or 4 squads usually. Thank you for supporting my "house" rules though.


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DemonBunnyMan wrote:Hmm yah his league but guy needs to take a chill pill, seems like everyones thinking along the same lines here. You seem to be will within YOUR rights with YOUR army.

I'm actually pretty relaxed. I realize that everyone here is operating well outside the necessary frame of reference to understand where I am coming from. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as the 'bad guy' here.


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JD21290 wrote:The models are still WYSIWYG.
Obviously they will also be detailed as such in the army list.

all i see is a person who hasnt bothered to read the pups dex as it all checks out fine

As I said, recieved a copy from the FLGS owner for the purpose of keeping Dan from cheating. (Intentionally or not.)


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Wolf_Guard wrote:Id tell him to stick his BP up his whiney ass tbh, ive model'd my greyhunters with bolter's and ccw's for the simple fact they look cool as. The guy obviously fears your grey hunters which i dont blame him they are a mean force may i ask what he is running?

I play Eldar. Usually a Jetbike/Mech list.


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Phryxis wrote:Simple solution: Get some thread, make a sling on a half dozen Bolters, spray them silver, hang them on some of your GHs for the purposes of this moron's tournament.

Take them off afterwards.

You win.

But, word of advice: If he's being this much of a toolshed now, that should tell you something about playing in his tournament. Don't bother trying to fix him, just avoid him.

IRONICALLY I'm trying to avoid HIM. Pretty funny right?

Please man, don't get your panties in a bunch. If you bothered to read most of these posts and the SW codex you'd see that it is perfectly legal. And we don't take kindly to people who are ignorant 'bout how models should look/equipped. His models, his style of play. And I gotta tell ya, YOU sir are the one who sounds like he's cryin'.

You're telling him that he can't play, because you don't agree with his modeling choices. Choices that are JUST AS CORRECT AS BOLTERS.

Now I don't know anything else about the user except for the information provided, but I can with certainty say that YOU are being ridiculous by discriminating against him based on his modeling. Basically, you're a being dick. You are being TFG.

Munch Munch! wrote:Please man, don't get your panties in a bunch. If you bothered to read most of these posts and the SW codex you'd see that it is perfectly legal. And we don't take kindly to people who are ignorant 'bout how models should look/equipped. His models, his style of play. And I gotta tell ya, YOU sir are the one who sounds like he's cryin'.

You want to play with him? He is all yours. He has been NOTHING but trouble for all of us. I really can't believe he took this argument onto a forum on the internet...

I realize how it sounds and he CERTAINLY made me out to be the dick here and NORMALLY I wouldn't be so much of an donkey-cave about it...




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ph34r wrote:You're telling him that he can't play, because you don't agree with his modeling choices. Choices that are JUST AS CORRECT AS BOLTERS.

Now I don't know anything else about the user except for the information provided, but I can with certainty say that YOU are being ridiculous by discriminating against him based on his modeling. Basically, you're a being dick. You are being TFG.

Incorrect. Telling him that he can't play because I HATE playing 40K with him. It is painful and terrible.

His past is littered with questionable modeling which frustrates everyone in our group.



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Wolf_Guard wrote:yea i agree with phryxis if this has been a problem such a petty thing, more then likely there will be more. Id have great pleasure telling him to JOG ON

Well he sent me a link to the thread, so go ahead and let me have it.


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KingCracker wrote:Just let him know of his error, and show him that they are indeed, WYSIWYG and therefore WILL NOT be used differently. If he makes a stink still, tell him loudly, that every other army should be forfeit as well, simply because they too are WYSIWYG.

This wouldn't go over as well as you think...


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warboss wrote:agreed. they are completely WYSIWIG with every weapon they have displayed in their equipment list. i can understand that he might PREFER to have blood claws with bp/ccw and grey hunters with bolters in order to easier tell them apart. if that is the basis for his ruling, simply mark the units that are grey hunters some other obvious way (via shoulder/knee pad colors or even a grey paint blob on the side of the base). if that doesn't work, tell him to post on dakka where everyone disagrees with him.

If there were discernible features that would be nice.

You should have set up a poll for this, Dan. So much easier. By the way Roi Kuro how is it cheating? GH can use Bolt Pistols and Close-quarters weapons and this is perfectly WYSIWYG

Munch Munch! wrote:You should have set up a poll for this, Dan. So much easier. By the way Roi Kuro how is it cheating? GH can use Bolt Pistols and Close-quarters weapons and this is perfectly WYSIWYG

I realize what the argument is here. I understand that models can be modeled in different ways as per the codex. When I speak of 'cheating' I'm talking about a lot of other things that have happened in many MANY previous games.

In his last game, for example, he was using standard bearers in his army list without any models actually carrying a standard.

I must confess: Roi Kuro is absolutely right, before my models were what they are in pictures posted above, they were pretty horrible to behold. Thats why I've gone so such lengths to make them presentable. In addition, I have another box of unassembled models, which I will be sure to build with bolters displayed.

Roi Kuro: I never tried to make you out as a "dick" on the forum here. I just wanted to see what other people thought about the situation, and to make sure I wasn't being unreasonable about wanting to play them as GH's. I certainly dont cheat, nor do I ever intend to.

@Rio:Oh well that is a problem, but in no way should not allow him to play. Me and my gamin' buddies sometimes do this if we forget say, our devastator with a melta, well then what we would do is take a scrap of paper, right what weapon the bolter guy is reprresenting, and get on with our lives. This is not legal in tournaments but if it is a campaign for fun then you should give him some leeway.(hope I spelt that right.)