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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/24 01:21:45
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration
Hopping on the pain wagon
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Farquar VI was dead. The warp storm codified as Warmaster Philioth's Bane was now fading after 8 months. The Warmaster and his fleet were in the midst of resupply on Farquar VI when the storm erupted without warning into real space. The Storm was beginning to fade and the elite troopers of the 231st Vostroyan First Born were the first reinforcements to arrive. General Shepov watched as the massive landers ascended back into space. His Company loaded into the massive Leviathan and set a course for Ferrodale - the nearest city of any size according to his charts. **** The Brain felt sluggish. He could feel his Aessence being pulled back into the warp. The storm had abated and already many of the lesser daemons had returned to their nonbeing. Unfortunately that chattering fool Nyarlathoth still held on to his corporeal form as did his yellow twin. They chose that moment to fly across the sky borne on their chariots pulled by screamers. They seemed to be howling with laughter. This perked the Brain's interest. He noticed that although he was still bleeding poewr back into the warp he felt a bit stronger. There were new souls on Farquar VI! The Brain summoned those minions to him which still had the energy to respond. Sadly, the Brain though, it seemed as though Nyarlathoth and the Yellow Horror had heard his summons and decided to come along like vultures to pick at the dead. It was annoyance but there would be time to deal with them when they returned to immaterium. Now there was an ambush to stage. ***************************************** Well, as I have mentioned I have been feeling the call of the warp quite strongly of late. I have been working on a mixed god list and thanks to some brainstorming sessions with Shep, Tinfoil, Green Blow Fly, and Warmaster I had a list that looked interesting to play and pretty tough as well. It was also quite a bit different from many lists I have played in the past - I am slowly working toward figuring out a horde daemon list... but more on that another day. One the important things that I realized I wanted was for every unit to be a threat the second it arrived - that is why there are no plaguebearers. They are great at what they do, but they can be ignored and have no effect on the game for a couple of turns. So, the final list I ended up bringing was: HQ Nyarlathoth (Chariot, Bolt, Legion, Master) The Yellow Horror (Chariot, Bolt, Legion, Master) The Masque Troops 8 Bloodletters 128 9 Daemonettes 126 (Gaze) 5 Horrors 85 (Bolt, Changeling) 5 Horrors 85 (Bolt) Elite 6 Fiends of Slaanesh 4 Bloodcrushers (Icon, Instrument, Fury) 4 Bloodcrushers (Fury, Instrument) Fast 7 Seekers Heavy The Brain (Gaze) The Eye (Gaze) Koko (Gaze) Shep's list 2x CCS 2x3 autocannon teams 4x3 lascannon teams 2x40 IG Platoons (blobbed as 30/10 with commissars, power weapon sergeants) 2x PCS (obviously) Mixed in the above were a lot of plasma and a couple of fists in the CCSes. Pregame and Deployment We roll up a Spearhead Capture and Control and Shep wins the roll to choose sides and go first. He takes the corner with a nice hill for all of his heavy weapons squads and drops his objective in the extreme corner behind them. The rest of his deployment basically fills up his table quarters. I place my objective pretty close to the center of the table so my horrors can claim the objective but still be able to do something in the game. Turns 1 and 2 Since Shep chose his quarter he also goes first. He moves his screens forward giving them the unenviable task of eating daemon charges. I split up my army putting both Bloodcrusher units, the Fiends, the Seekers, a unit of daemonettes, the unit of horrors with the Changeling, and Nyarlathoth in my prefered wave - I don't know that I have ever played with 14 scoring units before, that was kind of crazy. The dark gods approved of my choice as I got a 3. I dropped both Bloodcrusher units pretty close to the center of the table one of them runs 4" and the other (the unit with the icon) gets a painful 1" (this will come back to haunt me). The fiends and seekers both were a bit further back as were the daemonettes. Nyarlathoth went on my right flank. Most everything ran forward except Nyarlathoth and the Horrors both shoot at the screen on my right flank but only kill 1 or two. The daemonettes and the seekers both hid behind a ruin. In return Shep starts shooting. About halfway through he stopped and soaked his elbow in ice water. He used fire on my target to make me reroll cover saves and as such I just took the invulnerable saves most of the time (33% as opposed to 25% statistically). It basically took his entire turn shooting but he killed the closer of the Bloodcrusher units leaving me feeling pretty good about next turn. I picked up the dice and rolled for the Masque and Shep got an "uh oh" look on his face. Unfortunately she failed to show up. Unfortunately, both of my remaining troops choices did not follow her example - I put the Bloodletters on my right flank where they would get the charge next turn. They scattered 11" directly toward my table edge... d'oh! At least they got a 6" for the run which helped a bit. The horrors came on also to the right flank and lastly the Brain conceived a bold plan that none save he would risk - a dangerous but high reward place (basically right next to Sheps objective and that accursed CCS!) and drifted into a unit of guardsmen and returned back to reserves. Both units of horrors and Nyarlathoth shot at the screen on the right and it went to ground but still lost enough models for a panic test which the failed. The fiends and seekers of slaanesh (played by fleshhounds of khorne led by a seeker) charged the screen and destroyed it. I expected them to get some flak next turn, but since it took Shep's whole army to take out the first unit of Bloodcrushers I should be okay. Turns 3-5 Shep starts off the shooting with some lascannons and it looks like one of my Bloodcrushers is invulnerable as he makes the first 3 invulnerable saves he is called upon to take. The other Crushers all end up taking a single wound (this is the complex unit with 4 "different" models. Then Shep get a good round of shooting with a blob and first rank second rank fire for 12 wounds, of which 5 are plasma (not getting the bonus shot, before you ask). No problem say I, as I then proceed to fail 10 of those saves. The astute amongst you will note that a mere 5 wounds would have sufficed. The rest of his shooting went to wiping out the Seekers and half of the fiends. That's okay, my dice are due to turn around. I start rolling for my reserves and get... the masque and nothing else. Okay, that just means next turn will be better. Besides, the Masque is good, she means that my Bloodletters will be able to charge a blob this turn. Not sure how it will turn out, but this is a learning game for both of us. I probably misused the pavane here in my eagerness to use it. I should have shot with the horrors first and then moved them around, as it was I strung out the blob with the commissar and other assaulty units out of range to minimize return strikes. It was still a good idea, just would have been better had I thinned them out some first. The Bloodletters get the charge off and kill 12 of Vostroyan's finest with a loss of only one or two. Unfortunately, the commissar maintains order and encourages the rest of the men to pile in on the daemons, slowing their sword blows with their bodies if necessary. The fiends also charge in at the reduced blob and kill several but lose one of the creatures. The daemonettes charge at the reduced screen (it rallied last turn) and chop them to shreds. Nyarlathoth charges a platoon command squad(? maybe it was a special weapons squad - only 5 or 6 models) and does 3 wounds, all of which Shep saves - in return, the herald takes a wound and loses combat! This will signal the beginning of the end... There is not a whole lot for Shep to shoot at on his turn but his master of ordnance calls in some fire on the daemonettes - he gets a hit and a 5 so only scatters a single inch, covering 7 of the daemonettes. He wounds all of them and they fail all of their saves (ouch). He focuses his shooting on the horrors and kills them off with a meagre 7 wounds. At this point I couldn't even buy a successful saving throw. I lose another fiend in close combat after failing to wound. They do successfully hit and run toward the heavy weapons and Shep's objective. The bloodletters hit 10 times and only wound 3 times. They lose 5 and fade back to the warp with no retreat wounds. It is okay, my dice rolls will turn around soon... On turn 4 the Brain becomes available and I get my third 11" scatter of the game, this time he is destroyed. The Yellow Horror arrives and scatters 10" back into some dangerous terrain (but doesn't suffer a dangerous terrain wound). Koko shows up with a hit. He shoots the CCS and they make all three cover saves. The Masque charges the blob just because at this point I am desperate and she is going to be shot to death anyway. If she can survive 2 phases she will hit and run away. She takes a wound as she charges but wins combat. Once more the rerollable stubborn is too hard to overcome. The fiends dual charge 2 heavy weapons squads and... fail to wound with all 12 attacks and take a wound for their trouble. The end of this game marks the absolute worst dice rolls I have ever seen punctuated by above average rolls from Shep. At the beginning of the game they were close and the game was tight, but I got really really frustrated. And here is how things looked towards the end as I finally admit defeat. Eternal Praises Although the game ended disastrously for me, it was actually quite educational. The daemonic cavalry did quite well. Being able to land outside of rapid fire range and still having a pretty easy charge is very useful. The daemonettes did much better than their statline would suggest - again, the fleet was nice especially when combined with pavane. Speaking of Pavane, I am seriously considering a low priced prince (thanks for the idea Warmaster!) with just Mark of Slaanesh and Pavane. It only comes in at 20 points more than the Masque and is much more survivable and better in CC - plus the pavane will hit on 2 and the prince can't fleet anyway so I am not losing that. Eternal Damnation First and foremost has to be those treacherous dice. Truth be told, they were some old dice that I found in my gaming closet in a ziplock baggie - guess I had banished them for a reason. Also, I have to say, my generalship was pretty weak. I made a few huge errors: I played very cavalier with the daemon princes - "Bring it down!" made me feel like they wouldn't stand a chance on the field so I tried to be extra risky with them which just resulted in 2 mishaps. In retrospect it would have been nice to have forced Shep to fire at them - my bloodcrushers might have survived or something. Also, the herald on chariot was pretty worthless, but I am going to chalk that up to the absolute lack of vehicles. He didn't do anything in close combat but he did tie up a CCS and a special weapons team for a turn or two. The Brain roared his displeasure and shattered the seeing mirror through which he was watching the event unfold on Farquar VI. The walls to realspace had congealed quicker than he estimated - no doubt Nyarlathoth was behind this! It now looked to all those minions on the field that it was the Herald of Tzeentch who led the assault on the mortals. It would therefore be in the minds of many that it was the Herald who had led the entire incusion! Nevermind all the effort that the Brain had gone through summoning the storm. The deals he had made, the powers he had crossed - the drain on his own powers were substatial as well as those of the Triumverate! There would be a reckoning in the warp.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/11/24 17:16:49
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/24 01:54:07
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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Nice report! That's a lot of guardsmen!!!!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/24 01:54:29
40K 5th ed W/L/D
65/4/6, 10/2/1, 10/3/0, 2/0/1, 0/1/1
40K 6th ed W/L/D
1/0/0
WHFB 8th ed WHFB
Empire: 12/3/2, Lizardmen: 16/3/2 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/24 01:59:40
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Maddening Mutant Boss of Chaos
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Wow.
There's always the temptation to blame the dice when things slide down hill, but this time....
Wow. Fiends and Bloodletters getting outfought by Guardsmen?
Sounds as though the fickle Powers were playing some sort of cruel joke on you.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/24 04:04:33
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration
Hopping on the pain wagon
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Yeah, I tried to play down the bad rolls, Shep actually felt bad and I seriously threw the dice away after the game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/24 06:13:18
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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tinfoil wrote:Wow. Fiends and Bloodletters getting outfought by Guardsmen?
While I don't discount the terrible string of bad luck that Som experienced, guard will fool you.
I never 'outfought' any of his close combat specialists. He just never hit me with a critical amount of attacks. Power weapon toting 30+ blobs have a very short list of units that they are actually afraid of. Turn the number of enemy units engaged to two instead of one, and that list gets a lot longer.
As it unfolded, it was... I lose 10 guardsmen, he loses 2 wounds. I lose 5 guardsmen, he loses 2 wounds. I lose 4 guardsmen he loses 1 wound. I lose 2 guardsmen, he loses his last wound. I lose every one of those combats, but the core of 3x attack sergeants and 3x attack commissar was untouched. A full 6 fiends would come out of the infantry blob, smaller but victorious. Four fiends has a much lower chance mathematically of surviving the blobs. And that was what I managed to shrink him down to.
And mathematically, 8 bloodletters don't stand a chance against 30 guardsmen with a commissar (and three sergeants obviously). Som's bloodletters lost to a slightly smaller unit. But like I was saying, had he concentrated his forces, than even a lower probability set would still have blown me away with ease.
Som needed to either use shooting to thin the blobs out more, or needed to hit one of them with two of his units, not split them and go one on one. On my right flank he was attempting to set that up, and i would have instantaneously evaporated if the seekers and fiends hit me at once, but my picket absorbed the first dual charge, and a FRFSRF into the seekers easily gave me the one-on-one I needed. Similarly, the second bloodcrusher unit could have set up the bloodletter unit a turn later, but it was 13" away and still partially screened off with my other 10 man picket.
Any opportunity to reinforce his slowly dwindling units with fresh arriving reserves was dashed by bad rolls. Of all the rolls that went sour, his turn 2-4 reserves rolls were the ones that ruined him. Although the bloodletter unit scattered backwards, it still wasn't shot at before it charged, his fiends rolled realistically while in combat, and while his bloodletters followed a slightly below average charge with a really bad second combat phase, that unit winning out would have just been cut down by waiting heavy weapons. His princes just not participating in the game, and his chariots not turbo boosting over my blobs in order to tie up HWS hurt. When you combine statistically rare reserves failure with his turn 3 and 4 armor/invulnerable saves versus shooting, then you get a big butt-whipping.
In our post game discussion I mentioned that I'm sure that if Som was playing his standard demon list, he would have realized that he was outnumbered severely, and would have focused heat on one platoon, while the other platoon maneuvered up and fired. This way he preserves his own forces and burns down the tar ASAP. It would have also got him physically closer to my objective. But I think he was a little overwhelmed with having 14 units and having more than his usual amount of the devastating cavalry/beast units.
While the entirety of my list was basically a planetstrike defender list, and not particularly hard, the infantry squad core is serious business, and failing to respect the kind of CC hurt that they can grind out will get you rolled up.
Of course in this case, we can throw out a lot of that, just because Som couldn't roll his way out of a paper bag.
As far as my enjoyment of the game, I was having a blast playing basically an unsupported infantry company. I had set the terrain up beforehand, and the side of the table with the hills had mostly forest terrain pieces, the other half of the table was buildings and craters. When I chose my corner and placed my objective on the hill, and he placed his objective in the first building in the 'city', it appeared to be a really cool thematic game all of a sudden.
I envisioned that the company commander had his forces secure the hill over looking the outskirts of the city and set up a firebase of heavy weapons and had them on overwatch. Once they were set up, he organized his infantry squads and ordered them to advance under covering fire into the city to establish a presence there. They needed to secure the first building, but should fall back to support the heavy weapons should the overwatch position be compromised.
When my more intact platoon emerged from the bloodletter combat and then consolidated towards the building it got pretty fun for me again. As they marched in lock step towards the building they laid out another first rank fire second rank fire drill into the horrors, who were falling back, trying to get to the other side of the building. It was very cathartic to see an IG horde just wade through an assault, losing every contest, but persevering through just attrition and callous disregard for human life, and proper application of many different orders as well. ( I actually used 5 out of 6 of the different orders)
And now that its been a few days and Som has healed.... "For Vostroya! For the Grey Lady! For Shepov!"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/24 06:19:19
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Bloodthirsty Bloodletter
Anchorage
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Neat report. Honestly, horde guard is the only thing I'm having difficulty facing with my daemons. The lack of the seemingly ubiquitous inquisitor/mystics actually gives me a bit of hope for my normal list.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/24 06:19:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/24 06:54:00
Subject: Re:1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Stealthy Space Wolves Scout
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I'm really glad to see your guard horde slingin' the hurt; I figured if any among us could, it'd be you.
This makes me want to run with the token 30 man stubborn blob I use now and pile even more in! I just need to figure out how to turn some WHFB ogres into human obliterator virus victims for my plague zombie HWTs...
The other thing I find gets woefully little attention is the effectiveness of the FRFSRF lasgun blobs. It's all well and good to joke about death by flashlight, but ~10 wounds on T4 infantry (or even 5 wounds on T6 nasties) out 24" is hardly anything to sneeze at, from what is essentially an assaulty unit. I find liberal applications of this, Incoming! and/or Get Back in the Fight! are serious force multipliers for such a large unit.
Shep wrote:It was very cathartic to see an IG horde just wade through an assault, losing every contest, but persevering through just attrition and callous disregard for human life...
Oh man, am I ever glad I'm not the only one who has noticed and appreciated that this style of fighting, what is such iconic "guardsmen" combat, has been properly realized in this codex.
Imperial Guard Commissar Blob Squads: We Win by Losing!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/24 12:21:38
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Fixture of Dakka
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Som have you considered beefing up your Bloodletter unit? Previously I had been running three squads of 12 but played with two squads of 17/18 this weekend (you can view my latest batreps here to see how they did). In summary the two squads of 18 fared much better... Obviously they can soak up a lot more shooting and what's left to assault with is much more punishing. I think I need to play some more games to decide if this is the best way to go but so far I prefer the larger squads.
G
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/24 17:03:50
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
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Ouch Som, just ouch. I had one of those games a few months ago. I counted them for 2 turns I failed a total of 21 4+ invulnerable saves in a row, on top of getting 1 unit out of 8 on my second turn, and 2 out of seven on my third.
Shep how bunched up were your blob's? I'm just wondering if Som needs to have some sort of template in his list to keep people from doing that. Maybe a naked grinder instead of the seeker's or flamers instead of one of the crusher units. Just to keep people spread out a bit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/24 17:16:03
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration
Hopping on the pain wagon
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I am adding the after action review stuff above, but am also putting it there for the people who already have replied (I know I am guilty of not looking for edits and assume everyone else is as lazy as I am)
Eternal Praises
Although the game ended disastrously for me, it was actually quite educational. The daemonic cavalry did quite well. Being able to land outside of rapid fire range and still having a pretty easy charge is very useful. The daemonettes did much better than their statline would suggest - again, the fleet was nice especially when combined with pavane. Speaking of Pavane, I am seriously considering a low priced prince (thanks for the idea Warmaster!) with just Mark of Slaanesh and Pavane. It only comes in at 20 points more than the Masque and is much more survivable and better in CC - plus the pavane will hit on 2 and the prince can't fleet anyway so I am not losing that.
Eternal Damnation
First and foremost has to be those treacherous dice. Truth be told, they were some old dice that I found in my gaming closet in a ziplock baggie - guess I had banished them for a reason. Also, I have to say, my generalship was pretty weak. I made a few huge errors: I played very cavalier with the daemon princes - "Bring it down!" made me feel like they wouldn't stand a chance on the field so I tried to be extra risky with them which just resulted in 2 mishaps. In retrospect it would have been nice to have forced Shep to fire at them - my bloodcrushers might have survived or something. Also, the herald on chariot was pretty worthless, but I am going to chalk that up to the absolute lack of vehicles. He didn't do anything in close combat but he did tie up a CCS and a special weapons team for a turn or two.
The Brain roared his displeasure and shattered the seeing mirror through which he was watching the event unfold on Farquar VI. The walls to realspace had congealed quicker than he estimated - no doubt Nyarlathoth was behind this! It now looked to all those minions on the field that it was the Herald of Tzeentch who led the assault on the mortals. It would therefore be in the minds of many that it was the Herald who had led the entire incusion!
Nevermind all the effort that the Brain had gone through summoning the storm. The deals he had made, the powers he had crossed - the drain on his own powers were substatial as well as those of the Triumverate!
There would be a reckoning in the warp. Automatically Appended Next Post: @GBF - I am considering a lot of changes, actually. One of the big things is going back to my all khorne list that I took the GT a couple of years ago and finish painting the last few khornate daemons that I have and including them. Then I am gonna start sprinkling in some Slaanesh - I have an idea for a "challenge" between two greater daemons - a Bloodthirster and a Keeper or Secrets and play out a series of games to see who can claim the most souls. The greater daemons will probably not even be in the lists (I have a hankering for heralds of late!) But yeah, you were right about needing a couple more crushers - I don't think a single unit of 8 would have done it - both times they were wiped out there were wasted wounds - but 2 units of 5, or 2 units of 4 with attached heralds is the direction I am moving.
@Warmaster - the list originally had 2 soulgrinders in it but "Bring it down!" has been unkind to both vehicles and monstrous creatures. There were times that I wished I had a couple of units of flamers. That Elites slot is just sooo good for daemons. I am toying with bringing 1 sizable squad of each at some point, just for the grins (4 crushers full command with a herald, 6 fiends and 6 flamers should be no end of fun).
@defenestrator - FRFSRF was surprising to me at just how effective it was - even against the bloodcrushers. Throw enough mud at a wall and some of it will stick.
Shep is right, we talked after the game, and I felt that I had I concentrated everything I have on one of the flanks I could have wiped out a blob fairly easily and forced Shep more on the defensive - as it was, I was reacting constantly rather than acting, that is never a good thing. Also, I really need some way of dealing with floating power fists and commissars and null libbies and the like. I am starting to think that maybe boon isn't as overpriced as it seems. The TOMG that I am doing is all Tzeentch, and as of now everything that can have it, does.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/24 17:35:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/24 17:56:59
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Warmaster wrote:Shep how bunched up were your blob's? I'm just wondering if Som needs to have some sort of template in his list to keep people from doing that.
I wasn't really too compressed. I had the advantage of spearhead, and since Som is usually VERY cowboy about his deep strike placement, I was making efforts to leave no holes. Anything you see in the pics that is bunched up was only that way because his list had no blasts or templates. There would likely have been room to spread..
I don't mean to say that my army would have loved to face some souffle, it's just that I don't think breath princes or grinders would have been more useful than the cav.
What you never really saw, because they never had to do anything is that I had 3x meltas in each and every PCS and CCS. And I also had a 3x melta SWS. 14 total... more than I usually bring even in competitive mechvet builds.
I'm not a big fan of doubling up on crushers in the same wave... I find that I like having my icons in the unit, and its too risky to try to get your preferred. But Som did do that, and he did get his preferred. You would think that landing two bloodcrusher units on turn 1 would lead to a turn 2 charge for at least one of them. I fed both bloodcrushers a speedbump before I began my firing, but somehow there were zero bloodcrusher charges in the game. I blew away the first one at the top of turn 2, and the other was untouched. However, at the bottom of two, Som's shooting saturated my screening unit, killing the sergeant which led to them running. This pulled all units out of charge range of the bloodcrushers. I was actually then later able to regroup with the screen, and move, move, move them in front of the crushers. Had Som rolled a more expected probability set with the crusher armor saves on turn 3, he would have survived, only to be screened again.
That little game within a game got Som thinking. After the game he and i both came to the same conclusion that blue doesn't really interact that well with red. The synergies that were working were the pavane/khorne combination, and the idea of getting obscured by bloodcrushers for fiends and corndogs. The next time we talked we both pretty much said the same thing. Pink and red looks to have some serious potential, as long as there is some kind of focus on anti-transport... Which isn't a problem for those colors. Corndogs, fiends, unholy slaanesh chariots, all put serious threats on multiple transports. Once those are open, khorne chariots/heralds, bloodcrushers and bloodletters could terrorize the hamstrung enemy. When it comes to tzeentch armies, I think I'm still more of a mono-blue kinda guy. And when it comes to nurgle.... well I just don't like anything nurgle.
I agree that it was a totally educational game. I know very well that I got lucky on deployment type, outside of planetstrike, running 100% static support is just begging for trouble. But I learned a bunch of little things that will tweak my deployment more. I needed to embed my PCS and CCS inside the blobs. It will cost me some lasgun shots, but because I wasn't deployed closer to the front lines, my meltaguns only got to fire once. I'll use this formation in the future.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
IIIICCCCCIIIII
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
I=infantry squad
C= command squad
I need to color code my bases in order to pull that off. It was difficult enough the way I was playing it. Let alone pushing the separate units that close together.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/24 18:02:21
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration
Hopping on the pain wagon
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Yeah, I was thinking about combos myself, and I think that a blue/red would work only if you were willing to commit to a two front battle - stack the shooty tzeentch stuff on the weaker flank of the two and the khorne on the other all in support of each other. The problem with that is that you end up with two weaker halves that lack the synergy that makes a good daemon list really start to work.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/24 18:12:48
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
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Well you aren't going to get any arguments from me about the strength of a mono-blue list  . But blue mix's well with a subset of pink (mainly fiends and the masque). And blue helps to make people come to the blob of green  . I don't like blue and red, which is evident because I never field red. Hmm, I want some skittles.
I think putting in the cheap daemon princes with pavane can help the blood crushers get stuck in a little quicker.
I wouldn't completely give up on chariot heralds for the list. Maybe for something like this you drop we are legion and master of sorcery, but keep the bolt, add a soul devourer and boon of mutation. That way you keep your anti-tank shot, which is what you really wanted in the first place. But they might be able to tie up something a little better in hth.
Shep since you are running all foot would it be worth it to put in a harker vet unit? It might be worth it to build a static fire support vet unit that infiltrates for dawn of war games or if you have to move on the table.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/25 00:10:03
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Bloodthirsty Bloodletter
Anchorage
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On the flamers, I run three squads of 3. I wouldn't recommend running any more than 3 in a unit. In my 1500 pt list the three units take up about a 1/5 of the points, and I don't feel hesitant at all as using them for exactly what they are, suicide squads. Any more and your throwing away points. Nobody in their right mind is going to let flamers stick around for a second round of shooting. And because of the way you deploy, it's going to be hard to get more than 3 flame templates out of them on the round they land. Drop them in dangerously close to a unit, about 2-3 inches away. If you lose them, it's not a catastrophic loss, a little bit of drift most directions is fine, if they drift into the unit, they're only truly gone 1/3 of the time. But when they hit, or at least hit close enough, units disappear. Drop then next to a horde of guard, orcs, or nids, you'll seriously thin the numbers at the least, and be able to do some serious mop up with 30 shots from a 10 man unit of horrors.
YMMV, of course.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/25 00:16:07
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration
Hopping on the pain wagon
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yeah dancingcricket, that elites slot is just so competitive. I have 9 of them and have had good luck with them in the past.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/25 00:39:51
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Fixture of Dakka
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Bill Kim has always been an advocate of the Slaaneshi DP with pavane... Now I am starting to see why he likes this unit.
G
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/25 01:21:11
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Committed Chaos Cult Marine
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Awesome battle report as always, thanks for breaking out the daemons again.
I actually play a foot slogging IG list like this and the FRFSRF can reap units, but most importantly it can take a charge. I tend to favor some kind of counter assault unit (penal legion/ rough riders) I've also had luck using a shot gun priest in my couner assault units. Commisars do so much for an IG gunline.
I've heard tales of 2-4 Tzeench heralds in units of horrors with bolt and boon doing great things.
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And whilst you're pointing and shouting at the boogeyman in the corner, you're missing the burglar coming in through the window.
Well, Duh! Because they had a giant Mining ship. If you had a giant mining ship you would drill holes in everything too, before you'd destory it with a black hole |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/25 01:25:16
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration
Hopping on the pain wagon
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you will certainly be seeing that tzeentch combo in my tale of many gamers reports - so, you have good news yet?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/25 02:07:07
Subject: Re:1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Stabbin' Skarboy
123 fake street
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Holy gak, I would hate to be one of those guardsmen, seeing all those beasts rip apart your comrades then hearing your CO say "NEXT!"
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"I can envision a world with no war, pain, or strife, were peace is constant, then I envision attacking that world because they'd never see it coming."
- Orks, 4175 points
- The face of an opponent when you lose five dozen models and say "that's it?", priceless. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/25 02:38:37
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Committed Chaos Cult Marine
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Yep great news! Lil Rat popped out this sunday!
And I get home and see an awesome battle report! great week all around, (not for the Daemons)
Better luck next time Brain!
pics here
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/267017.page
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And whilst you're pointing and shouting at the boogeyman in the corner, you're missing the burglar coming in through the window.
Well, Duh! Because they had a giant Mining ship. If you had a giant mining ship you would drill holes in everything too, before you'd destory it with a black hole |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/25 22:54:10
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman
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Great battle report, and those vostroyan troops look pretty good.
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2500pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/25 22:55:07
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration
Hopping on the pain wagon
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Rest assured, the Brain is plotting even as we speak... no rest for the wicked.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/01 23:46:59
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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very nice report the IG looked good.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/02 03:15:11
Subject: Re:1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Been Around the Block
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Great report, I use to play daemons a while back before making my salamanders. What i used was Skull taker on a chariot the guy is an absolute beast he instant kills anything on 4+ and has
ws7,t5,w4,i5, 3+/5+ saves and furious charge so when you get him down on the table people will shoot for him leaving your blood crushers, daemon princes, and other high toughness targets alone. The other then maybe adding fateweaver that way every daemon could reroll there saves , I really like your list, great job on your report hope you are able to show the imperial guard a thing or 2 in the future, because i hate them so much! GRRR
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2300 pts
6000 pts deff skullz |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/12/03 00:52:49
Subject: 1750 Daemons vs. Shep's Vostroyan Horde
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Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration
Hopping on the pain wagon
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Yeah, there will definitely be a comeuppance!
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