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Ok, so my army list is evolving now and my local tournament is moving up 100 points to 1,850. Here's what I'm thinking of using.

HQ
-Logan Grimnar (275)
-Rune Priest: Chooser of the Slain, Living Lightning, another power (110)

Elites
-6 Wolf Scouts: Mark of the Wulfen, Meltagun, Plasma Pistol (130)
-Venerable Dreadnought: Heavy Flamer, DCCW, Assault Cannon, Extra Armor (190)
-Lone Wolf: Mark of the Wulfen, 2 Fenrisian Wolves (55)

Troops
-10 Grey Hunters: Meltagun, Plasma Gun, Plasma Pistol, Wolf Standard, Mark of the Wulfen, Drop Pod (230)
-10 Grey Hunters: Flamer, Plasma Gun, Wolf Standard, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino, Extra Armor (225)
-5 Wolf Guard: 1)Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol (with Wolf Scouts), 2)Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, Power Weapon,
3) Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, Power Fist, 4)Terminator Armor, Assault Cannon, Power Fist, 5) Terminator Armor, 2 Wolf Claws (235)

Fast Attack
-None

Heavy Support
-5 Long Fangs: Heavy Bolter, Multi-melta, Plasma Cannon, Lascannon (135)
-Land Raider: Extra Armor (265)

Total: 1,850

By including Logan, this army has 3 Troops choices which my last tourney army lacked. Hopefully, the Wolf Guard in the Land Raider, led by Logan, will be able to seize objectives away from my opponents. I know the Long Fangs are rag-tag but those are the weapons I have and they actually worked pretty well last tourney. The Lone Wolf was just thrown in because there were 55 points left. It was either him or a 5 pack of Fenrisian Wolves with a Cyberwolf which seemed to small to me. Let me know what you think.

Long Fang squad needs serious work. One of every heavy weapon is a bad idea.

Grey hunters with proper heavy weapon support should be able to take out objectives in the enemy deployment zone.

Wolf scouts are subpar at best. Dump the plasma weapons in favor of either 2x flamer or 2x melta in the grey hunter squads.

If you are going to take a land raider, make it a crusader and get it a mm.

Rhinos should not take extra armor, ever.

There are a lot of upgrades that are wasted points.

DruidODurham wrote:
HQ
-Logan Grimnar (275)
-Rune Priest: Chooser of the Slain, Living Lightning, another power (110)

Good choices! I hope youir putting the priest in with logans group? I dunno if logan gives fearless, but its great w/ WG

DruidODurham wrote:
Elites
-6 Wolf Scouts: Mark of the Wulfen, Meltagun, Plasma Pistol (130)
-Venerable Dreadnought: Heavy Flamer, DCCW, Assault Cannon, Extra Armor (190)
-Lone Wolf: Mark of the Wulfen, 2 Fenrisian Wolves (55)

Lone wolves cannot be underestimated as they don't count for KP's if they die. Honestly, for the points, they're pretty darn good. I've had 2 with storm shields and MOW knock out a demon prince before. Your venerable dread I think needs more focus. Either anti-tank or anti-infantry, not both. Your list lacks anti-horde so I'd suggest flamers. Wolf scouts are a good suicide, but they're only nifty in battles like IG. I would suggest rethinking the squad, maybe getting another troop.

DruidODurham wrote:
Troops
-10 Grey Hunters: Meltagun, Plasma Gun, Plasma Pistol, Wolf Standard, Mark of the Wulfen, Drop Pod (230)
-10 Grey Hunters: Flamer, Plasma Gun, Wolf Standard, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino, Extra Armor (225)
-5 Wolf Guard: 1)Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol (with Wolf Scouts), 2)Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, Power Weapon,
3) Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, Power Fist, 4)Terminator Armor, Assault Cannon, Power Fist, 5) Terminator Armor, 2 Wolf Claws (235)

Seems solid other than the plasma pistols. I always suggest against plasma pistols... and no power weapon guy on the grey hunters? Or you cant have PW and MOW in the same squad? In which case my friends been playing them all wrong lol... The wolf guard are beefy, as wolf guard should always be. I'd almost suggest scrapping termi armor for the runic armor ones, I believe you can get even more power weapons then? And at least 1 storm shield would be recommended, someone to soak up lascannons and things.

DruidODurham wrote:
Heavy Support
-5 Long Fangs: Heavy Bolter, Multi-melta, Plasma Cannon, Lascannon (135)
-Land Raider: Extra Armor (265)

What kind of LR? And your long fangs definitely need work... I'd recommend 2 plasma cannons and 2 lascannons (half kills troops and half kills tanks)

Overall your list seems pretty solid. I don't play SW, tho I have like 20 troops and 10 termis I converted to chaos, but the models are awesome and the armys fun to play against at least haha. My suggestions are based off my experience facing em

Long Fang squad needs serious work. One of every heavy weapon is a bad idea.

Yeah, I'm well aware of that one, but that's what came in the old Long Fang box, so that's what I have for the time being. They actually still did pretty well last tourney.

Wolf scouts are subpar at best.

I have to completely disagree on that one. Last tourney my Wolf Scouts took out a Trukk and a mob and a half in the first game, a Rhino and its squad of Plague Marines in the second game, and a Sentinel and a Chimera with its squad of Veterans in the third game. One of my best units.

If you are going to take a land raider, make it a crusader and get it a mm.

Personally I would never consider taking a LRC. I've though about using an LRR sometimes, but I love the heavy firepower of the original. If I need more bolters, I'll get another Grey Hunter pack.

There are a lot of upgrades that are wasted points.

Which upgrades are wasted points?

Good choices! I hope youir putting the priest in with logans group?

I was gonna put the Rune Priest with the Long Fangs like I did last tourney. Living Lightning being unlimited range and all.

Your venerable dread I think needs more focus. Either anti-tank or anti-infantry, not both. Your list lacks anti-horde so I'd suggest flamers.

I thought the Ven. Dread was pretty well focused on anti-horde with Assault Cannon and Heavy Flamer.

Rune Priest: 2nd Power Murderous Hurricane or Tempes's Wrath.
Lone Wolf: If you can get him a Storm Shield he is as hard to kill as a Ven Dred most of the time.
Grey Hunters: Make both weapons the Same, PG/PG, Flammer/Flamer, MG/MG

It's a fairly balanced list I think, though I do have 1 good suggestion.
You should cut the lone wolf and a grey hunter from a few squads in order to instead add a couple more wolf guard to act as seargants with power fists. Cut the plasma pistol for the extra points (not really worth the points anyway I think) and swap the plasma guns for another melta and flamer. power fist wolf guard sergeants add alot of capability to your grey hunters, allowing them (at least a chance) to instant kill most characters, fight monstrous creatures and trash vehicles in equal measure.

DruidODurham wrote:Yeah, I'm well aware of that one, but that's what came in the old Long Fang box, so that's what I have for the time being. They actually still did pretty well last tourney.

Doing well in your last tourney does not make a unit good.

DruidODurham wrote:I have to completely disagree on that one. Last tourney my Wolf Scouts took out a Trukk and a mob and a half in the first game, a Rhino and its squad of Plague Marines in the second game, and a Sentinel and a Chimera with its squad of Veterans in the third game. One of my best units.

Once again, getting lucky in a tourney with a subpar unit does not make a unit good. A rhino and a squad of plague marines for a 6 man scout unit is indeed incredibly lucky. A mob and a half? That squad managed to kill between 15-45 orks? Very doubtful vs anyone with any competence.

DruidODurham wrote:Personally I would never consider taking a LRC. I've though about using an LRR sometimes, but I love the heavy firepower of the original. If I need more bolters, I'll get another Grey Hunter pack.

Godhammers are not 'heavy firepower' unless you turn them into static bunkers. Since you are throwing the termies into the land raider, I doubt if it's going to be 'static'. A redeemer or crusader is much better suited to handle that.

DruidODurham wrote:Which upgrades are wasted points?

Plasma. Lots of plasma. You are much better off taking your GH's and either making them 2xmelta or 2xflamer. Not giving them a 'purpose' simply makes them bad at all of the things you want them to cover.

DruidODurham wrote:I was gonna put the Rune Priest with the Long Fangs like I did last tourney. Living Lightning being unlimited range and all.

It's an excellent idea, especially if you include logan with them. D6 str8 shots hitting on 2's vs vehicles is very good for this list.

DruidODurham wrote:I thought the Ven. Dread was pretty well focused on anti-horde with Assault Cannon and Heavy Flamer.

I think you might be better off playing a rifleman variant in this list and spending the points saved on something else, like straightening out that long fang squad or getting some fast attack in the list.

If you have units that are working for you keep using them until they stop working. Some units just click with some people.
In my old BattleTech games I used a Mech call the Rifleman, in 40k Terms think a AV 10/10/9 Dred with Two Plasma Cannons that still had the Gets Hot Rule and 2 Auto-Cannons. I kick tail with this one. If any one else used it they would die a horrible flaming death.
The other one I loved was called a Dire Wolf “Gun Star”, think of a Land Raider with 4 Twin Linked Rail Guns. Every time I pulled it out the fist shot was Crew Stunned followed by a Wrecked Result by the end of turn-2. If someone else took it out, run for the hills.

Anpu42 wrote:If you have units that are working for you keep using them until they stop working. Some units just click with some people.

And a better unit should and will 'click' better with the same person.

It's no excuse for using subpar units when there are better offerings in the same list.

Some things work well for some peaple and some don't.
Take me My SM army is a Plasma SPAM army [21 Plasma Weapons].
Yes I will loose the od guy to a "Gets Hot", but if I try anthing else I wreck my Synergy/Karma what ever you call it. I droped the Plasma Cannons for Heavy Bolters in my Tac Squads and they don't perform as well for me.
One of the Others can't use plasma becouse every other Shot "Gets Hot", but put a Heavy Bolter in his hads and look out.
It may also take some time to figure out wat works, if I went by what everone said, I would have never tried Blook Claws, but I kept trying them and now they are my most efective unit.
For him the Long Fange Mix might be right for him. and the he might just be one of theos out there that can pick up "Lesser" units an make them work.

Anpu42 wrote:Some things work well for some peaple and some don't.
Take me My SM army is a Plasma SPAM army [21 Plasma Weapons].
Yes I will loose the od guy to a "Gets Hot", but if I try anthing else I wreck my Synergy/Karma what ever you call it. I droped the Plasma Cannons for Heavy Bolters in my Tac Squads and they don't perform as well for me.
One of the Others can't use plasma becouse every other Shot "Gets Hot", but put a Heavy Bolter in his hads and look out.
It may also take some time to figure out wat works, if I went by what everone said, I would have never tried Blook Claws, but I kept trying them and now they are my most efective unit.
For him the Long Fange Mix might be right for him. and the he might just be one of theos out there that can pick up "Lesser" units an make them work.

This is just bad list building advice. There is a complete difference between taking a heavy bolter or a plasma cannon due to the needs of the army.

Taking one over the other simply because of bad dice? That's just bad advice.

I’m sorry it sounded like I was the dice rolls and not list building. So I stopped and thought about it a while.
The point I was trying to make was only “You” know how to make a list the works for “You” and only “I” know how make a list for “Me”.
If a unit is working then he should use it.

Now back on subject: I am going to analyze this more
-Logan and the Wolf Guard in nice and Fluffy. It’s a good mix even with Logan though a Chain Fist or a Melta-Bomb would be good.
-The Land Raider: Good Long Range Firepower.

The Rune Priest: Looks good: Chooser of the Slain can work great if you can remember it’s there. A Sage could do you some Good.

The Scouts, other than it is an odd set up. It’s just it made me go “ok?” to, but I can’t throw stones. My 8 man Scout Pack isn’t that much better and it is also a camel [a set of compromises]
-1 Bolter
-2 Sniper Rifles
-2 Power Weapons
-1 MotW
-The Rest just Bolt Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

I like the Lone Wolf, nice simple and to the point, only change is I would give him a Storm Shield.

It has done well for me and other than adding 2 more I don’t plan on changing it.

The Venerable dread looks good. You might want to see about picking up the Saga of Majesty.

Grey Hunter Pack 1:
-I would go with either the Pair of Melta-guns or Plasma Gun. The Melta-Gun is a Great LAW, but has a short range, this does not matter as much with Space Wolves and you are an Assault Army. The Plasma Guns have the same Range Profile as the Bolt Guns; I would choose one or the other.
-Drop the Drop Pod with only one you are going to get isolated and crushed. If you decide to keep it, go with the Malta-Guns and Tank Hunt.

Grey Hunter Pack
-I would go with either the Pair of Flamer or Plasma Gun. The Flamers is a Great Horde killer but has a short range, this does not matter as much with Space Wolves and you are an Assault Army. The Plasma Guns have the same Range Profile as the Bolt Guns; I would choose one or the other.
-Rhino Good, the Extra Armor would be good, but you are going to catch a lot of Anti-Tank Weaponry. That will most likely Swiss cheese you and Crew Shaken bit will mean nothing, put on a second Storm Bolter

Your Long Fangs are working for you, that’s great and Fluffy too. It fits with the SW theme that even I find hard to do some times. It a good mix, he has good long range Anti-Tank, Anti-MEQ, and great close in Anti-Tank and Anti-GEQ. To me this looks like a good take on all comers pack, and it’s not 5 Missile Launchers.

As far as getting rid of the Plasma Weapons. If you have 2-3 I would agree that a Power Weapon that cost the same with a Space Wolf list. I also feel that if you are going Plasma, go the whole way.

A Tactical Thought
Give the Drop Pod to Logan.
Give the Long Fangs the Land Raider

Ok, let me clarity a bit for you guys. This is not a wish list, this is an army list made from the units that I have now, with the exception of Logan Grimnar. The reason why the Long Fangs are armed the way they are is that those are the models I have and that's because those are that models that came in the Long Fang box. If I had my choice my Long Fangs would probably be Lascannon, 2 Missile Launchers, Plasma Cannon, and Heavy Bolter. I also only have one flamer. They just don't ever come in SW boxes and the one I have I think I filched from my friend who played Blood Angels. Just wanted to let you guys know that the list is one of expediency, not optimum loadouts.

DruidODurham wrote:Ok, let me clarity a bit for you guys. This is not a wish list, this is an army list made from the units that I have now, with the exception of Logan Grimnar. The reason why the Long Fangs are armed the way they are is that those are the models I have and that's because those are that models that came in the Long Fang box. If I had my choice my Long Fangs would probably be Lascannon, 2 Missile Launchers, Plasma Cannon, and Heavy Bolter. I also only have one flamer. They just don't ever come in SW boxes and the one I have I think I filched from my friend who played Blood Angels. Just wanted to let you guys know that the list is one of expediency, not optimum loadouts.

Then why in the world are you asking for advice on it if the list is 'unchangeable'?

Good luck.

Thats why I made the sugestions that I did. There were simple tweaks.

Without Changing a Model, Put the 2 Plasma Guns in One GH Pack and put them in the Rhino.
Pod Logan and the Dread
That all I can raly think of.

I still like your Long Fangs, unfocused, but deadly at any range.

Well, the list itself is not unchangeable only certain parts of it. I can run any of the HQs minus Canis (wouldn't mind buying Logan or Njal), any of the Elites (but my Dreadnought is already armed), or any of the Troops (but I am limited by the number of models I own and the fact that I only have one meltagun and one flamer). I'm really most limited in the Fast Attack (up to 10 Fenrisian Wolves, 3 bikes and an attack bike (not enough to have a leader)), Heavy Support (Long Fangs and Land Raider) and Transports (1 Rhino and 1 Drop Pod). There's still a lot of flexibility in that.

I could also buy some models, as the tourney is next month, but I'm not in a great financial position now and I gotta get people Christmas presents, so I'd like to keep that number down (e.g. I would need to buy Logan for this list).

Black Reach is a quick way to pump up your numbers and you can trade the orks.

I'm not that desperate for regular marines, I've got about 20 metal marines and space wolves I could put arms on if I needed more of them. I just need to fill out my Fast Attack and Heavy Support choices and pick up random bits to make more packs more versatile.

DruidODurham wrote:I'm not that desperate for regular marines, I've got about 20 metal marines and space wolves I could put arms on if I needed more of them. I just need to fill out my Fast Attack and Heavy Support choices and pick up random bits to make more packs more versatile.

Absolutely correct. Getting 2 flamers and 2 meltas for all your GH squads is a very good idea.

However, if I were you and I wanted to expand my collection?

I would invest in box or two of dev squads. Fixing your long fangs or adding more (unless you go with another support path) is pretty critical.

I've posted a Mk. 2 Version of this list in a new thread. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/270055.page#1190594 See if you think this one's better.