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I'm a huge Dr Who fan and have played 40k off and on since 2nd edition was released. the new Dr Who series keeps making me want to try out a time war between a Dalek Army and a Time Lord one. I've been working on making a Dalek army list first since their forces are pretty obvious.

Robomen, Dalek Troopers, and Daleks as troops choices with an Emperor and Cult of Skaro as HQ. Toss in a Dalek Abomination as heavy support, hoverbout patrols and saucers as fast attacks and your set.

my problem has boiled down to a debate about what a Dalek's unit type should be.

I've argued that a Dalek should be a monsterous creature based on the fact that everyone in the show seems to treat them as such. making them an MC with wargear that grants the ability to Move as Jetpack Infantry is my basic conscept. This places them squarely in the killable range of most armies.

My freind claims they should be statted out like a Walker and given the "Hover" special rule had by tomb spyders. This would make them harder to kill but slower moving it would also allow them to be immobilized which happens occasionally in the show.

To make matters more confusing an old Dalek 40k army list I found online counts them as Tanks (Skimmer, Fast) with no WS or I which makes them a death vacuum in CC. They'd be pretty hard to kill but if you do get a hit they pretty much fry like a landspeeder.

I was wondering what others thought.

Intresting...*Glances at collection of cyberman dvd's*

Indeed, Black Tree Design makes a large line of old series 28mm miniatures and in 2007 Character Options on behalf of the BBC released a 35mm prepainted line which is actually closer to 25mm because of its massively thick bases. so the miniatures are available its just a matter of rules which i'm working on.

the old rules i found basically modified the imperial guard armored companies and built daleks using standard weapons and armaments which is fine but it didn't feel right on a generic play test so I started comming up with stuff. once i figure out enough to make it viable IE have basic Daleks mastered i'll post the army list to get oppinions. presently since i also grabbed imperial guard rules to get started the army list feels low priced but it won't remain that way once I get options in there.

Havigna quick think about it, fast skimmers seems too much for them. They do seem to move slowly most of the time (every now and again you see them swooping around though - maybe have a fast attack variant for this).

I woudl say a jet pack woudl work better, they skim around pretty slowly, btu it woudl allow them a 6" move in the assault phase as well. For their basic guns......maybe a slighty upgraded bolter? either S5 AP5 or S4 AP4.

They would also, as they hover, ignore difficult terrain.

Armoru wise....if i remember they have tough armour but once you crack it they are pretty weak. So maybe a 2+ or 3+ armour save but a low T stat?

Do they have anything akin to a force field for an invul save? maybe just for the elites.

I dont remember them eer engaging in CC......but i am not a huge fan so i coudl easily be wrong.

Please post pics when you have some models done, it sounds interesting.

They could probably be count as necrons.

That coudl work. except for the skimmer part.
Maybe necrons with jetpacks and no WBB?

Why do you want them skimming?

I know that they can fly in many episodes, but most of the time you see them just rolling around, so no need to have them as skimmers.

I don't know what rules the destroyers have vis skimming as I don't have a necron codex, but you could just say that the heavier armed/armoured daleks would have the anti-gravity drives (or whatever they have) fitted, where the normal "troop" daleks just drive on the ground, only using their skimming for jumping over walls/helping to get over difficult terrain (such as a guardsman can jump over walls, walk over difficult terrain, and climb stairs/ladders etc).

I thought about the necron concept but since i hated playing my Cron army i ruled that out. the WWB is definately a no go and their weapons while powerful are more like lazguns than gauss weapons. if you take away Gauss, phase out, and WWB crons are pretty much vanilla marines with less options.

in the new remastered versions of the Dalek episodes going back to the 2nd Doctor the Daleks have been shown to hover. they don't generally fly until the new series but they are supposed to skim about 6 to 12 inches off the ground. they use this to get up and down stairs in some episodes, other episodes they never show them going up stairs but they get there some how. Basically their hover system is limited and slow, definitely not a Fast Skimmer. they were always extremely vulnerable to difficult terrain though, you push one and it topples over with no way to stand, it seems to lack horizontal stabilizers.

Destroyers are fast skimmers i think, like the new series Daleks from the Parting of Ways or the Stolen Earth.

As for stat lines i'm thinking starting roughly around WS2 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I3 A1 LD8 SV5+ and then have army upgrades to improve their saves and such. One of the problems as i see it with the old army list is the exorbitant 70 to 90 points per model cost for unit. i want to drop the base model closer to SM then upgrade the entire army's technology level as a whole and allowing the units to purchase added equipment. This means that like in the show the Dalek army would get stronger without adding additional models, in the first Dalek episodes the Daleks can't even leave their city but by the Time War they have Evaporator Fields that disintegrate bullets.

breaking into 4 steps of technology each would have its own armory allowing different upgrades each at higher prices than the last you buy access to the armory with an initial cost then pay for the upgrades, 1 initial encounters on skaro, 2 dalek's invasion of earth in 2150, 3 dalek empire, 4 the time war era daleks.

a standard dalek would end up costing 20 to 30 pts default but with upgrades a time war dalek would be priced closer to 70 to 90 pts, still fielding the same basic models.

dynath wrote:
My freind claims they should be statted out like a Walker and given the "Hover" special rule had by tomb spyders. This would make them harder to kill but slower moving it would also allow them to be immobilized which happens occasionally in the show.

To make matters more confusing an old Dalek 40k army list I found online counts them as Tanks (Skimmer, Fast) with no WS or I which makes them a death vacuum in CC. They'd be pretty hard to kill but if you do get a hit they pretty much fry like a landspeeder.

I was wondering what others thought.

I really like this idea and will be keeping tabs on this thread, I've quoted this segment because I thought that this part was particulary well thought out. Daleks do not engage in CC full stop, in fact they continue to zap their foe even when they rush at said Dalaek. Having a vehicle without WS would nicely portray them not being locked in combat and constantly zap the enemy as they try to over power them.

In regards to the fast part, I think this may not be best, Daleks are ponderous slow moving fortresses so keeping them as a normal tank is ideal as they only have two main weapons anyway that rarely fire at the same time (a defensive mist spray and their offensive instant kill)

Then if you look at the Tau codex there is an ability that a few tanks have called Landing gear that allows a Tau tank that started its turn stationary to land and count as a tank. The reason I mention this is becuase you can take and twist that rule for Daleks. So that ... At the start of the Daleks turn a Dalek that hasn't moved can choose to hover and count as a Skimmer Tank until it lands again. Landing or Going to Hover takes up its entire movement phase, but after doing so it may then move as the vehicle type its chosen as normal. However it must land/take off at the START of its turn and not after its moved (to take into account of how slow they are in the films lifting and lowering)

The main weapon could use the rules for a Multimelta or Vindicator cannon without template if you want it stronger. and the defensive weapon could use the flamer template which fires automatically when assualted, has Str6 and an AP3

Those are my thoughts, oh and inv save would be a must


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dynath wrote: This means that like in the show the Dalek army would get stronger without adding additional models, in the first Dalek episodes the Daleks can't even leave their city but by the Time War they have Evaporator Fields that disintegrate bullets.

Just a thought, Daleks with the appropriate wargear can activate a status field. Counts as a pysker power so the controlling player can call this ability at any time they wish after successfully rolling a leadership test(such as when a squad pumps their entire firepower into it) on double 1's or 6's The field backfires and destroys the Dalek with no save possible. The model is taken out of sync until the start of the next player turn. Until then the Dalek cannot be assualted, cannot assualt(if applicable) cannot fire and cannot be fired upon.

You might even say a test must be made each time the field is switched on or off, making it more riskier but worthwhile to try. Pts cost would need to be high for an upgrade such as this, or limited to HQ choices or even one per army

The field idea is a great one, the Evaporator Field in the new show is among the only ones which has its affects shown but several other fields are mentioned, Absorption Field, Stasis Fields, Quantum Entanglement Field (mouth full) and the mist you refer to was called an Agonizer Field (or beam depending on the script).

I'm not sold on the Tank to Skimmer Tank idea. I picture them a fair bit easier to take out than a tank, unit tosses bullets at them and they are fine but minor explosives take them out quite well. Even an AV10 is still hard to kill compared to a standard MEQ. I've never seen a 6 to 9 AV is it possible? Plus I don't like the idea of them tank shocking. having 30 midget tanks on the board could mean a quick end to enemies if you just ram and shock them all the time.

weaponry wise I actually quite like the idea of using the Eldar Lance key word. All their weaponry other than the fields seem to be coherent particle weapons and given their compact physical size it would fit Eldar level technology. I'd actually want to lower the range on most weaponry. in the old series it was pretty common for a dozen people to jump a dalek and the dalek couldn't hit them accurately if they were on the outer edge of a standard rifles range, at least thats what it seemed like, 21" or 18" range on a lance weapon would make it deadly but a guarantee you'd get assaulted the next turn.

if using custom built rules then yes, AV 9 is easily done as you simply choose them to be. Though I think AV10 min would be best as you mentioned.

They might be classed as a Tank, but that does not mean they actually "are" a tank, the term is really only being used so that the correct rules set from the main rulebook can be used so you know what the vehicle can and can't do rather than writing out a specific rules system for them when a perfectly usable one already exists.

Must admit that Tank shock never crossed my mind, would a simple ("may not tank shock") extra rule make it work?

I will conceed to your judgement on Eldar weapons being more suitable as I'm not 100% on the weapon stats for them. But your reasonings for it are sound

Tank Shock and Ramming are among some of the less important advantages of being considered a Tank, of course considering how low the armor would be half of the dalek army would be whipped out by death or glory. After rewatching some of the old series again and seeing how they handle themselves I really think staying away from the Tank key word is a good idea. In some episodes they are killed with baseball bats, draino explosives, and harpoon guns. Definately weaker than a tank.

So now I'm thinking Monsterous Creature, treat all Difficult Terain as Dangerous Terrain instead. At the Start of the movement phase Units with Anti-Gravity Devices may choose to move as Jet Pack Infantry for that phase only (Ie no assault move but ignores terrain).

I lean towards MC for a variety of reasons. 1st the 50% obscured to get a cover save, daleks are shiny metal contraptions and so stand out like a sore thumb everywhere. 2nd the relentless part, daleks in the old series tend to either turn in a circle firing or scoot forward and blaze away wildly, either way they are moving and shooting unless in a large pack. 3rd the ignores armor bit, in the old series daleks never really did a lot of close combat but they are seen in some episodes to smash dents in steel doors knock people unconcious with a single blow, this sort of implies that their grasper arm is extremely powerful even though they can't opperate it with much skill in combat. And lastly is that MC's move at snails pace like Infantry, the 6" a turn seems like the vary methodical way dalek's move in the show.

Thats sort of my reasoning.
I know there are a few ways I could do this same basic idea (IE Infantry with power weapons given Relentless USR and a custom Conspiquousness special rule) but I was trying to avoid making up to many special rules.

Looking at what you are thinking about maybe the followign woudl work for a dalek?

WS 3
BS 4
S 6
T 4
W 1
Ld 9
Sv 4+

"Hover" - Daleks count as Jet Pack infantry, if they end their movement phase in difficult terrain it is treated as dangerous terrain.

"Relentless"



The S 6 would allow them the strong gripper amr but still allow armour saves against it if the target is tough enough. I think a whoel army that ignores armoru saves would be a little harsh. This way they could still wound a SM on a 2+.