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So, yeah..whats dakka's opinion on the all around most killy unit in 40k that doesn't use guns to get the job done?

Ill put my voucher in for a fully upgraded squad of genestealers with broodlord. Id like to see any squad of termis take on that. I6, rending plus psychic powers on broodlord.

i watched that die to to TH/SS termies today...granted there were 10 of them...but still not the best unit...

Wat you need are som' Ork Boyz. They come in 'nd smash in anyune dat think dey can run da place. Ork are made for Fightin' and winnin'!

I think I might have to vote for Swarmlord with full Guard with Lashwhips. Making my opponent's WS 1 and Int 1? Yes please!

Eldar Harlequins

8 Harlequins with shurikan pistol and harlequin kiss
shadowseer with shurikan pistol and harlequin kiss
troupe leader with shurikan pistol andpower weapon

36 Rending Attacks on the charge
5 power weapon attacks on the charge
Int 6 / Str 4 on the charge
and hit & run so they are always on the charge

Oh did I mention they have fleet and you can't shoot at them from more than 24". And even at 24" or less you have to roll to see them.

I have hit every single one of the listed elite hand to hand units listed and wiped them out.

so...how do they fair against the just mentioned swarm lord? im not sure how you do the WS 1 but lash whips? yeah your harlies are going down before they even fight...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh and ork boyz would only be the best CC unit if they had NO max unit size

WS 1 is a Psy Power with a 12" range to nerf your opponent. He can then give himself and his unit Prefered Enemy. On the charge he's got 5 attacks that hit on a 3+, rerolling misses. Wounds on a 2+, with you getting no armor saves, and having to reroll your invulnerable saves. Each wound causes Instant Death. His Guard will have a total of 12 Attacks, hitting on 3+ with rerolls, wounding Eldar on a 2+, and Rending on the 6s. With the Guards' Lashwhips, any models in BtB with them strike at Int 1, so most of this happens before you get to strike back.

Oh, and it's a good thing those Kisses are Rending, because 6s are the only thing you wound on.

I think a fortuned council can give just about anything a run for its money.

so...swarm lord and friends are currently WIN. unlees of course someone brings guns....but THATS NOT THE POINT HERE!!! blood for the blood god anyone?

Swarm Lord with guard is the best. You cannot instant kill them with high str weapons while the swarmlord has 4 attacks at ws 9. If you do not know ws 9 means you need a 5 to hit if your a marine. He has 4 attacks, striking at i 6, str 6 and he can give his unit prefered enemy to re-roll misses and each wound auto-kills oh but wait if you pass your 3+ invulnerable save, re-roll that!

He is the new undisputed King of CC!

I would prefer to think either a full squad of 10 GKT's with a Grandmaster, with that you get str 6 power weapons and a str 6 power/force weapon, ouch! or possibly the allmighty, yet broken, full squad of nob bikers!

10 nobs and 2 warbosses? vs seer council spam.....damn i dont know which way to lean but i think seers win that...still im not sure any of that matters.

swarm lord is still on top with instant deathing badassery against the nobs, and it would be a fair fight between council but with lash whips? i think the swarm lord has got your number aswell.

=I= White-Wolf wrote:I would prefer to think either a full squad of 10 GKT's with a Grandmaster, with that you get str 6 power weapons and a str 6 power/force weapon, ouch! or possibly the allmighty, yet broken, full squad of nob bikers!

The Grey Knight Grand Master is pretty much the best duelist, assuming he can actually cause that one wound he needs, but against things like the Swarm Lord and Guard, him and the GKT would probably be breakfast. I don't know if the Lord is an independant character, but if he is, the GM could probably take him out, but the GM's unit would be devestated if not destroyed by the guard.

Close combat?? I prefer to avoid actually touching xenos alien scum... do you know how hard it is to get 'Nid gut stains off power armor???... you can't. that stains something awful.
[/sarcasm]

as much as i hate to say it, the lash whips, i think got's just about everything beat.... if you do the math hammer at least..... asside from a freak storm of rolling....

Remember that the Swarmlord has shadow in the warp, meaning that the seer council has a hard time getting fortune off and and that grand master force weapon doesnt work as often.

Swarmlord is the King!

he's have to somehow skip over the guard and not get lashwhipped..but yeah the gkts mights have him....hell 10 TH/SS termies would probably have him too ....anyone thought of dark eldar?

Best assault unit in the game is Lysander leading either 7 grey knight terminators or TH/SS terminators out of a land raider.

Swarm lord with 3 guard are also very very good, but cannot get places nearly as fast as the terminators.

The council is decent, but relies entirely on there being no psychic defense to work.

:/ 10 kitted out incubi with Drazhar and Archite+ Dracite kitted out of course seems to be the best unit dark eldar have to offer

...combat drugs means three off them strike first no matter what you do.
i think the only down side is the chance to kill themselves..

The Grey Knight Grand Master is pretty much the best duelist

A Swarmlord will hand him his ass. He is a tough, though.

IMO, best units:

Full Blood crusher squad with Skulltaker, with three attached heralds all on juggers, with skull taker, also on jugger. Maximize different equipment to abuse wound allocation. That squad will destroy anything it touches, very hard to kill. Biggest short coming is it's slow speed and weakness against tanks or walkers.

Full Nob Biker squad with 2 warbosses. Kills nearly anything it touches, fast, stupidly hard to kill; but one big, giant weakness: low leadership. Tank shock them off the board.

Full squad of Harlies. Best counter assault unit in the game, can't be shot until you are within their charge range. Hit like a fricking freight train, crazy initiative, ignores cover, and style points. Weakness: If anything gets close enough to shoot them, or even worse, a flamer template, they are wasted. Ultra fragile.

Swarmlord and pals. The swarmlord is a monster and with his home boys he will make it into combat. Weakness: Slow, and the guard aren't that tough.

10 TH/SS termies with Lysander and another supporting character such as a libby, chappy, vulkan or even Calgar. The unit hits crazy hard, very resilient, can kill anything it hits, including vehicles. Weakness: slow speed (unless with gating libby), weak to flak fire or large mobs of assault units such as souped up gaunts or Boyz.

10 Champion mark of khorne chaos terminators led by Abbadon and a termie slanesh sorcerer with lash. Mix of lightening claws and a few fists and reaper autocanons. Squad has a disgusting amount of attacks, can hurt any unit, hardish to kill, and can suck in units with lash. Weakness: slow, can have lash shut down with psyker defense, abby can wound himself with his deamon weapon.

10 DH termies, all force weapons and 2 thunder hammers, with 2 grand masters. Hits hard at Initiative, Grand Masters can insta kill anything even if they have eternal warrior. Can hurt anything, but slow. Weak to higher Initiative assault units and flak fire.



There are more killer combos but I have to vote the uber blood crusher unit as death on wheels. Eternal warrior, two wounds each, wound allocation, murders anything it touches. That is a savage squad.

? nuzz zone libby and 10 terminators crush the gak out of 8 bloodcrushers...

Actually, I don't think they do. 8 bloodcrushers have 32 S6 power weapon attacks on charge at WS5. 21 hits, 18 wounds, 6 dead TH/SS termies. If you take LC's they won't even last that long. They also each have T5 and two wounds, and are immune to instant death. Pretty sick. Skulltaker instantkills the libby with 6 instant-death, 4+ rending attacks and the other 3 heralds butcher the rest of the termies. Nasty stuff.

Also, seer councils shouldn't reaaly cout, as they kill things with destructor, which is a ranged weapon. Also, assasinate the farseer and watch them crumble.

My vote is for Nob bikers/swarmlord.

@Sarnath666
You are talking about one match up but fair enough, but lets run the numbers, maybe you are right, but I doubt it. If you are adding a libby, I get a character too, which is skulltaker on a jugger.

Ok, assuming libby gets null zone off every time.

Ok, 8 crushers and Skulltaker charge with 42 attacks, hit 28 times, wound 24 times, kill 8 TH termies, all LC termies.

TH and Libby swing back, 4 TH attacks, hit with 2, wound with 2, kill one Bloodcrusher, none with wound allocation. Libby hits once, probably doesn't wound. Next round they are dead.

So that is a wipe out.

If the termies charge.

Crushers have 29 attacks, hit with 20, wound with 14, kill 5 TH, 10 LC.

Termies swing back, with 15 TH attacks, hit with 8, wound with 7, cause 6 wounds, which will kill no crushers with proper wound allocation, 3 with no different kit on the crushers or putting any wounds on skulltaker (which is foolish, obviously).

LC's swing with 40, hit with 20, wound with 13, cause 11 wounds, kill 3 to 4 with wound allocation.

Libby swing 3 times, hits 2 lets say, wounds once.

Crushers win that combat, although the LC termies do better.

So no, they don't crush the gak out of them, they get their asses handed to them.

Sarnath666 wrote:? nuzz zone libby and 10 terminators crush the gak out of 8 bloodcrushers...

ha........................ha. the math has been done but did'nt need to know that to already know this statement is gak.

Ork boy: four S4 attacks on the charge for SIX points. In terms of cost, the best assault unit in the game hands down.

Ann'grath the Unbound. Hands down the best individual one-model CC unit available. I don't know about squads, though.

Ghazghkull with a retinue of as many meganobs as possible will give many things a run for their money.

thekerrick wrote:Ill put my voucher in for a fully upgraded squad of genestealers with broodlord. Id like to see any squad of termis take on that. I6, rending plus psychic powers on broodlord.

They charged my normal tactical squad in a ruin. Psychic power worked and stopped the power fist from attacking. Killed nothing, one stealler died, failed leadership and ran off the board



Maybe a full Ork boy squad with a Power Klaw from sheer numbers alone.

10 Wolf Guard in power armor with Frost Blades, Ragnar Blackmane, Ulrik the Slayer, and Logan Grimnar all attatched.

assault out of a land raider crusader.

10x(5+D3) I5 S6 power weapon attacks that reroll hits, and with Ulriks abilty vs T5 models they reroll wounds as well. Not to mention Ragnar, Logan, and Ulrik get all of their attacks,

Abaddon
Typhus
10x Khorne Terminator Champions - Lightning Claws

All in all, 60 attacks from the terminators on the charge.
Terminators all have reroll to wound, so thats on average 15+ Dead, not including Abbadons S8, +D6 attacks
and Typhus with Warptime and Instant Death capabilities otherwise throw in 2x Khorne Lords with Daemon Weapons
for a potential 18 attacks each.