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current list!!!!
2500 Pts - Orks Roster

HQ: Ghazghkull Thraka (1#, 225 pts)

HQ: Big Mek (1#, 110 pts)
1 Big Mek @ 110 pts Power Klaw; Kustom Force Field

Troops: Nobz (11#, 550 pts)
all with cybork
1 PK, BP
2 PK, Skorcha
3 PK
4 BC, Skorcha
5 BC, BP
6 BC
7 Skorcha
8 waagh
9 normal
10 painboy
1 Battlewagon Big Shoota x1; Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Deff Rolla; Grot Rigger; Red Paint Job

Troops: Gretchin (16#, 55 pts)
15 Gretchin
1 Runtherd

Troops: Boyz (18#, 148 pts)
17 Boyz @ 148 pts
1 Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Bosspole

Troops: Boyz (13#, 162 pts)
11 Boyz @ 162 pts
1 Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Bosspole
1 Trukk Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram

Troops: Boyz (13#, 162 pts)
11 Boyz @ 162 pts
1 Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Bosspole
1 Trukk Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram

Troops: Boyz (13#, 162 pts)
11 Boyz @ 162 pts
1 Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Bosspole
1 Trukk Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram

Elite: Burna Boyz (15#, 225 pts)
15 Burna Boyz @ 225 pts

Elite: Lootas (5#, 75 pts)
5 Lootas @ 75 pts

Elite: Lootas (5#, 75 pts)
5 Lootas @ 75 pts

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (1#, 140 pts)
1 Battlewagon @ 140 pts (Big Shoota x1; Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Deff Rolla; Grot Rigger; Red Paint Job

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (1#, 135 pts)
1 Battlewagon Big Shoota x1; Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Deff Rolla; Red Paint Job

Heavy Support: Big Gunz (3#, 69 pts)
3 Big Gunz @ 29 pts Kannon; Ammo Runt x3)
6 Gretchin

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas (1#, 70 pts)
1 Deffkoptas @ 70 pts Buzzsaw x1; Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha x1

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas (1#, 70 pts)
1 Deffkoptas @ 70 pts Buzzsaw x1; Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha x1

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas (1#, 70 pts)
1 Deffkoptas @ 70 pts Buzzsaw x1; Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha x1

2500 points total

Doesn't look like you have enough ranged tank kill here. Mech IG, WH, Eldar will give you fits.

Maybe drop some troops, add some lootas and put kannons/rockitts on the wagons.

well that is what i am going for with the koptas,nob bikers and, Snikrot.
the thing with kannons/rockitts on wagons is i can only shoot if i move 6 or less and 99% of the time will be going a full 13 inchs.
then lootas will be stuck sitting unprotected at the back side of the table unless i add a unit of grotz to a already expensive unit. i could drop them into a battlewagon but then they could not stay with the KFF and still be able to attack.

i just have a hard time fitting lootas in a list with out building the army around them.

Lootas don't belong in a mech list; army would outrun it. If left alone, lootas die in a hurry to outflank, deepstrike, fast attack.

If you want mobile tankhunting, consider a unit of tankbustas in a battlewagon. You can drop one of your battlewagon boy squads, get 10-12 tankbustas, and make your nob bikers a scoring troop unit.

Also, the battlewagon full of burnas helps with... pretty much everything but armor. Consider adding them in lieu of one of your boyz mobs. You can get 10-11 for the price.

I like at least one buzzsaw deffkopta for the turn one vehicle assault, but YMMV.

Otherwise, a nasty bunch of ramshacklin' greenies.

sickening wrote:well that is what i am going for with the koptas,nob bikers and, Snikrot.
the thing with kannons/rockitts on wagons is i can only shoot if i move 6 or less and 99% of the time will be going a full 13 inchs.
then lootas will be stuck sitting unprotected at the back side of the table unless i add a unit of grotz to a already expensive unit. i could drop them into a battlewagon but then they could not stay with the KFF and still be able to attack.

i just have a hard time fitting lootas in a list with out building the army around them.

Why would you be going a full 13 99% of the time? Are you trying to get your whole army obliterated with melta fire?

I'm not sure why you care about lootas being unprotected when they are 48" away from anything and sitting in cover.

Yeah your opponent can outflank and deep-strike with some quality reserve rolls 2-3 turns into the game after the lootas have already torched all his vehicles.

Lootas are the best unit in the codex. They are the most efficient way orks have to kill light vehicles. If you don't use them or some kind of fire support you'll be charging into rhinos and chimeras and that's horrible assault fail because you're basically trading an entire troop for one of your opponent's dedicated transports.

You do have nob bikers, which can get around this problem because they are resilient, but since this isn't a full nob biker list I'm wondering how you expect the rest of your troops to perform.

If the nobs get wiped early this list has zero firepower.

Lootas really have no place in this list. I agree about the buzzsaws though, although I don't see any easily available points. One thing you could do is drop one of your koptas and make a unit of three: 1 bigbomm, 1 buzzsaw, 1 generic. It will take four wounds against T5 to kill one kopta.

Kevin Nash wrote:

sickening wrote:well that is what i am going for with the koptas,nob bikers and, Snikrot.
the thing with kannons/rockitts on wagons is i can only shoot if i move 6 or less and 99% of the time will be going a full 13 inchs.
then lootas will be stuck sitting unprotected at the back side of the table unless i add a unit of grotz to a already expensive unit. i could drop them into a battlewagon but then they could not stay with the KFF and still be able to attack.

i just have a hard time fitting lootas in a list with out building the army around them.

Why would you be going a full 13 99% of the time? Are you trying to get your whole army obliterated with melta fire?

I'm not sure why you care about lootas being unprotected when they are 48" away from anything and sitting in cover.

Yeah your opponent can outflank and deep-strike with some quality reserve rolls 2-3 turns into the game after the lootas have already torched all his vehicles.

Lootas are the best unit in the codex. They are the most efficient way orks have to kill light vehicles. If you don't use them or some kind of fire support you'll be charging into rhinos and chimeras and that's horrible assault fail because you're basically trading an entire troop for one of your opponent's dedicated transports.

You do have nob bikers, which can get around this problem because they are resilient, but since this isn't a full nob biker list I'm wondering how you expect the rest of your troops to perform.

If the nobs get wiped early this list has zero firepower.

Do you think there's any way to play (competitive) mech orks that doesn't involve lootas, or is Ork anti-tank just too limited without them?

I don't have anything against them, it just feels very limiting to have such a large part of your points spent for you from the very first second you put pen to paper (or hand to keyboard as it were).

Also, a question about Trukks; I know you don't rate them, but isn't their extreme fragility almost a benefit in a melta-heavy landscape? What I mean is, trukks don't care nearly as much as other vehicles whether they are within melta range or not, since they are going to get penned extremely easily eitherway. Are trukks bad in spite of this (ie other shortcomings drag them down) or is it just not true and they hate melta-range as much as any other vehicle that isn't a wave serpent?

Finally, how do you rate rokkit buggies vs deff koptas - is the loss of the first turn scout move too big to justify it despite the cheaper cost? What do you do when opponents are wise of it and either bubble-wrap their tanks with infantry or infiltrators, or they wall off anything important presenting you only with - let's say - rhinos, at which point you are trading a 70 pt unit for MAYBE a 35 pt transport.

number9dream wrote:
Do you think there's any way to play (competitive) mech orks that doesn't involve lootas, or is Ork anti-tank just too limited without them?

I don't there is a way to make them competitive against mech lists without fire support. Lootas aren't technically mandatory for this but they are probably the most optimal way to achieve that. Other methods include stacking rockitts/kannons on wagons or Big Gunz, or stacking rockitts in other capacities (Killa Kanz, Buggies, Deffkoptas). However since those options are competing for FO that generally means Lootas become necessary in some capacity.

I don't have anything against them, it just feels very limiting to have such a large part of your points spent for you from the very first second you put pen to paper (or hand to keyboard as it were).

I completely agree with you and share your sentiment but in a mech heavy metagame that's just an unfortunate limitation of the Ork Codex right now.

Also, a question about Trukks; I know you don't rate them, but isn't their extreme fragility almost a benefit in a melta-heavy landscape? What I mean is, trukks don't care nearly as much as other vehicles whether they are within melta range or not, since they are going to get penned extremely easily eitherway. Are trukks bad in spite of this (ie other shortcomings drag them down) or is it just not true and they hate melta-range as much as any other vehicle that isn't a wave serpent?

My issue with trukks isn't their fragility but rather the fragility of the unit that falls out of the trukk. They explode, maybe some orks die, your opponent peppers a few more, and now you're taking a LD 7 test without ever getting them into combat. Meganobz in trukks might be a viable option for use since they don't tend to die right away when the trukk blows up. I'll admit my experience with Trukks is pretty limited aside from "Trukk Boyz" which I have a problem with for the aforementioned reasons.

Finally, how do you rate rokkit buggies vs deff koptas - is the loss of the first turn scout move too big to justify it despite the cheaper cost? What do you do when opponents are wise of it and either bubble-wrap their tanks with infantry or infiltrators, or they wall off anything important presenting you only with - let's say - rhinos, at which point you are trading a 70 pt unit for MAYBE a 35 pt transport.

I like them both and right now prefer koptas because of their ability to take out a nasty AV 13 or AV 14 vehicle on turn 1. Bubblewrap is a problem for deffkoptas that I honestly don't have a solution for aside from blasting the wrap prior to an outflank. Not every army has bubble-wrap tactics though. Marines for one can't really counter them prior to their assult. I think Buggies are solid but they have the limitation of often being unable to fire into rear armor (which deffkoptas usually can do and then assault said rear armor). They could work depending on your metagame and what you plan on doing with them. They are on paper a quality unit and well worth considering

If you are interested in creating a viable ork list without lootas I think 3-9 rockitt buggies and/or 0 or 2-3 deffkoptas and either stacked rockitt wagons or big gunz are a good place to start. See if you have enough firepower with that and then go from there.

well it being a mech assault list i need to move as far as possible to get into cc fast as i can.

i try to not directly assault troop transports, i will do a multi assault on another unit so they will be locked into cc and not shot at the next turn or will use boarding planks and force them to assault my BW. with that being said only moving 6 inches so i can still shoot a rockitt or kannon will make for very slow goings.

yes trukk boyz are smaller numbers but they work well for objective holders and for hitting weaker units. and most of the time they are not looked at very hard for that same reason letting my get them to where i need them.

now for the lootas i will test them some time but i only have 5 and wont be able to get my hands on them before the tournament. i just dont see leaving such an expensive unit alone that cant move and still be effective.

i like koptas but i am only really running them because i have them on hand. lol not a big fan on the buzzsaw and would rather just keep them at range and shoot with them. sure you may get an assault on turn 1 but dont think they will live past that at such close range.

My issue with trukks isn't their fragility but rather the fragility of the unit that falls out of the trukk. They explode, maybe some orks die, your opponent peppers a few more, and now you're taking a LD 7 test without ever getting them into combat. Meganobz in trukks might be a viable option for use since they don't tend to die right away when the trukk blows up. I'll admit my experience with Trukks is pretty limited aside from "Trukk Boyz" which I have a problem with for the aforementioned reasons.

I like them both and right now prefer koptas because of their ability to take out a nasty AV 13 or AV 14 vehicle on turn 1. Bubblewrap is a problem for deffkoptas that I honestly don't have a solution for aside from blasting the wrap prior to an outflank. Not every army has bubble-wrap tactics though. Marines for one can't really counter them prior to their assult. I think Buggies are solid but they have the limitation of often being unable to fire into rear armor (which deffkoptas usually can do and then assault said rear armor). They could work depending on your metagame and what you plan on doing with them. They are on paper a quality unit and well worth considering

If you are interested in creating a viable ork list without lootas I think 3-9 rockitt buggies and/or 0 or 2-3 deffkoptas and either stacked rockitt wagons or big gunz are a good place to start. See if you have enough firepower with that and then go from there.

Thanks, going to try to get some test games in on Vassal and see how it works out.
BWs with boyz, trukks with MANz, maxed rokkit buggies.

If all else fails, at least lootas will still be there waiting =p

sickening wrote:well it being a mech assault list i need to move as far as possible to get into cc fast as i can.

i try to not directly assault troop transports, i will do a multi assault on another unit so they will be locked into cc and not shot at the next turn or will use boarding planks and force them to assault my BW. with that being said only moving 6 inches so i can still shoot a rockitt or kannon will make for very slow goings.

Both those strategies work. Just make sure you have infantry to assault when you do so. If you are in a situation where a vehicle is your only target, stay in your vehicle and use the plank. Sounds like you have the right idea here.

now for the lootas i will test them some time but i only have 5 and wont be able to get my hands on them before the tournament. i just dont see leaving such an expensive unit alone that cant move and still be effective.

Lootas don't need to move with 48" range guns and in fact don't want to. Just deploy them in terrain with good LOS (top of a building is ideal) and have them shoot the entire game.

i like koptas but i am only really running them because i have them on hand. lol not a big fan on the buzzsaw and would rather just keep them at range and shoot with them. sure you may get an assault on turn 1 but dont think they will live past that at such close range.

Well they aren't really supposed to live after their assault. The idea is to take out a vehicle that is a threat that you otherwise couldn't deal with. Ideally one that costs more than the deffkopta. Enemy Predators, Leman Russ, and Manticores make fine targets.

number9dream wrote:
Thanks, going to try to get some test games in on Vassal and see how it works out.
BWs with boyz, trukks with MANz, maxed rokkit buggies.

Please let me know what your findings are as I'm very curious how something like that may work out.

yeah i total get what you are saying about the lootas and i am more than will to do some game testing and see how i like them.

yes i can see trading a kopta for a Predators, Leman Russ, or Manticores but i just dont like the idea of giving up easy kill points.

updated list!
did a quick swap on the kommandos for lootas then dropped 1 koppta to add buzzsaws.

HQ: Big Mek 90 pts
Kustom Force Field; 'Eavy Armour

HQ: Warboss 150 pts
Power Klaw; Attack Squig; Cybork Body; Warbike

Elite: Nobz 520 pts
7 Nobz Big Choppa x2; Choppa x3; Power Klaw x2; Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon x2;Bosspole x1; Cybork Body; Waaagh! Banner x1; Warbike 1 Painboy

Troops: Boyz 154 pts
18 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Bosspole

Troops: Boyz 160 pts
19 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Bosspole

Troops: Boyz 160 pts
19 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole

Troops: Boyz 162 pts
11 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole
Trukk Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram

Troops: Boyz 162 pts
11 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole
Trukk Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram

Troops: Boyz 162 pts
11 Boyz
Boyz Nob Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole
Trukk Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram

Heavy Support: Battlewagon 125 pts
Battlewagon Big Shoota x1; Boarding Plank; Deff Rolla; Red Paint Job

Heavy Support: Battlewagon 110 pts
Battlewagon Big Shoota x1; Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram

Heavy Support: Battlewagon 110 pts
Battlewagon Big Shoota x1; Boarding Plank; Red Paint Job; Reinforced Ram

Elite: Lootas x 15 225 pts

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas 70 pts
1 Deffkoptas Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha Buzzsaw

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas 70 pts
1 Deffkoptas Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha Buzzsaw

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas 70 pts
1 Deffkoptas Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha Buzzsaw

lol is my lists really that bad? no one ever comments on them.

How about dropping one Trukk squad, taking 2x5 lootas, and moving the Nobz from Elite to Troops?

Still have 6 scoring units that way, and more fire support. Just a thought.

i have thought about making the bikers troops. but 2x5 lootas is kinda small i would think. would hate for that unit to run off the table after taking only 2 wounds.

Yeah but when that happens, it's only 45 points running off the table, so it's not a huge deal. Better than having 10 lootas, taking 3 wounds and having 105 pts running away

true! i am hopping to get up with a buddy later today and i will do some testing.

Not enough lootas.

imweasel wrote:Not enough lootas.

in my current list or if i run 2x5 units of them?

sickening wrote:

imweasel wrote:Not enough lootas.

in my current list or if i run 2x5 units of them?

I would run a minimum of 3x10. 3x15 preferred.

wow thats alot of points! i have a box of them in the mail so maybe i can just stand in some big shootas to test it out but really dont see me finding the for that many of them.

Forget the Lootas. Your list is fine. Most people will try to change your list into 1-2 archtypes because they don't know any better. Play your list a few times (maybe 10 times) and see how it is working. You've got boarding planks everywhere. You'll take down vehciles soon enough. Your 1 unit of lootas is all you need. If need be you can also park the lootas in a wagon for more protection if you look across the table at a few Thunderfire cannons.

DarthDiggler wrote:Forget the Lootas. Your list is fine. Most people will try to change your list into 1-2 archtypes because they don't know any better. Play your list a few times (maybe 10 times) and see how it is working. You've got boarding planks everywhere. You'll take down vehciles soon enough. Your 1 unit of lootas is all you need. If need be you can also park the lootas in a wagon for more protection if you look across the table at a few Thunderfire cannons.

Thunderfire cannons are going to be the least of his worries.

The boys in battelwagons and kff are the only real strong units in his list. He doesn't have anything reliable to even deal with multiple rhinos, let alone chimera spam, tcav spam or vendettas.

PK nobs on planks are not reliable enough to 'take down vehicles soon enough'. PK nobs on planks are ork's answers to heavy armor, not light armor.

I see 6 PK's coming from Planks. That's str 9 to armor 10. I don't see many rhino's or chimeras surviving that. I see 3 suicide Copters which, if going first, will force a conservative deployment or eat some other tanks. I see one big unit of Lootas to snipe at the skimmers. I see 3 Battlewagons which can ram vehicles at str 8-9. I see a Nob Biker unit which turbo-boosts into the vehicle parking lot with 3 PK's on top of everything else.

That's 11 independent units that can take down vehicles. That's good enough.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
All I see from more Lootas in this list is a point sink anchor left behind in the deployment zone. With all those Ork vehicles rushing forward I also see major LOS problems for the 3 units of lootas. One unit can be effective, any more in this list and you need to change the entire list to accomodate them.

DarthDiggler wrote:I see 6 PK's coming from Planks. That's str 9 to armor 10. I don't see many rhino's or chimeras surviving that. I see 3 suicide Copters which, if going first, will force a conservative deployment or eat some other tanks. I see one big unit of Lootas to snipe at the skimmers. I see 3 Battlewagons which can ram vehicles at str 8-9. I see a Nob Biker unit which turbo-boosts into the vehicle parking lot with 3 PK's on top of everything else.

That's 11 independent units that can take down vehicles. That's good enough.

All the pk's hit on 6's. The truks will most likely not survive to get to where they need to go. That gives you the 3 pk's in the battlewagons with the rest coming across on foot. I don't see you actually destroying very many rhinos or chimeras with those units. The nob bikers are very effective vs a couple of 35-55pt vehicles, but considering their point cost they should be. And one pbs unit will ruin that very expensive nob biker units day. Period. Like I said, the battlewagons are his most effective unit. There is nothing wrong with them.

DarthDiggler wrote:All I see from more Lootas in this list is a point sink anchor left behind in the deployment zone. With all those Ork vehicles rushing forward I also see major LOS problems for the 3 units of lootas. One unit can be effective, any more in this list and you need to change the entire list to accomodate them.

I think this list's success will depend entirely on his matchups.

"I think this list's success will depend entirely on his matchups."

lol is that not really all lists? i will run it the way i have it built not and then test it with more lootas.
so if i was to add more lootas what do you think i should drop?

sickening wrote:"I think this list's success will depend entirely on his matchups."

lol is that not really all lists? i will run it the way i have it built not and then test it with more lootas.
so if i was to add more lootas what do you think i should drop?

Not an all-comers list. There are several 2500pt lists that this list would be horrible to take against. Meeting one or two of those in the tourney could ruin your day.

I would look at dropping at least one truk boy squad and the commandos. Move the nob bikers to troop.

if you look at my updated list the kommandos are gone and there are lootas in there place.

yeah i have been thinking about making the nobz into troops.

so what from the other list would you said i should drop to add in more lootas?

sickening wrote:if you look at my updated list the kommandos are gone and there are lootas in there place.

yeah i have been thinking about making the nobz into troops.

so what from the other list would you said i should drop to add in more lootas?

I see no lootas and still see kommandos...