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Here's a list I'm toying with, influenced in part by some recent Tactics threads about the (perhaps) surprising utility of Chaos Dreads. I'm a bit concerned about my low Troop count, but I'm not sure where to cut. The LR would probably be my first choice normally, but it can be used to a) further minimize danger from Dreadnought craziness and b) add a couple more lascannons/functionally a 4th HS to the list.

Daemon Prince with Wings, Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission: 155
Sorcerer with Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission = 125

3 Chaos Terminators, 2 power weapons, 1 chainfist, 1 heavy flamer, 2 combi-melta: 120
Landraider with Possession= 240
Chaos Dread w/Plasmacannon = 105
Chaos Dread w/Plasmacannon = 105

8 CSM with Icon of Chaos Glory, 1x Flamer, incl Aspiring Champion with Power Fist: 175
In Rhino (with Smoke and Searchlight): 35
10 CSM with Icon of Chaos Glory, 2x Meltagun, incl Aspiring Champion with Power Fist: 220
In Rhino (with Smoke and Searchlight): 35
5 CSM: 75

2 Obliterators: 150
Vindicator: 125
6 Havocs (90) with Icon of Chaos Glory (10), 4 Missile Launchers (80) = 180
1845

Prince is ok.
The Lash Sorc is priced wrong.

Termies are meh, just to get another raider in, but that's questionable IMO.
Dread: not really the safe configs
I guess it's ok if they hang near the raider.

CSM: 10 or bust IMO.
CSM 10 man is ok.
5 CSM in raider as a scoring unit... I'm not a fan, but good luck with it.

The hvy support has a cool blend, but my gut always says double up on something.
No possession on Vindi, while Havocs not taking Autocannons? Reeks of Spiky Smurf

you trust your dreads with a plasma cannon? from one chaos lord to another....you're a brave man.

Well... see.
It depends GloryToTh16th.

If he plays it so that the LoS is set to the front 90 degrees, there's less to fear.
In addition, should he play it the full crazies, he's prob. gonna set up the dreads next to the raider so that they can't hurt it.

Good catch on the points.

Re: The dreads, I expect I'll mostly be playing with the INAQ clarification that they don't spin to look behind them. This should work even if the INAQ isn't specifically in play, thanks to the 5th edition redefinition of dread LOS.

---------

How about:

Daemon Prince with Wings, Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission: 155
Sorcerer with Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission = 125

3 Chaos Terminators, 3 power weapons, 1 heavy flamer, 2 combi-melta: 105
Landraider w/Dirge Caster = 225
Chaos Dread w/Plasmacannon = 105
Chaos Dread w/Plasmacannon = 105

10 CSM with Icon of Chaos Glory, 2x Flamer, incl Aspiring Champion with Power Fist: 210
In Rhino (with Smoke and Searchlight): 35
10 CSM with Icon of Chaos Glory, 2x Meltagun, incl Aspiring Champion with Power Fist: 220
In Rhino (with Smoke and Searchlight): 35
5 CSM: 75

2 Obliterators: 150
Vindicator: 125
6 Havocs (90) with Icon of Chaos Glory (10), 4 Missile Launchers (80) = 180
1850

----

Termies lost the chainfist, land raider loses possession, max out my other big CSM squad, and throw a dirge caster in there with the extra 5pts.

I could also shave 30pts by swapping the Havocs for another pair of Oblits. That plus cutting the Dirge would allow me to bump the little scoring CSM squad to 7 men with a flamer, for a little more assaulty goodness in a pinch.

Is that a Termicide squad, and, if so, what is the Raider used to transport?

Do you think it's wise to run a single, unpossessed Vindicator?

How does your FLGS play the Fire Frenzy rules?

A Raider is a big pointsink, and especially so if there's no valuable cargo to transport.

Your Oblits and Vindicator are easy targets. There's not much else in the way of threats besides a lashing DP.

The troop count is fairly low and you're up a creek if a squad gets taken out.

Keep the havocs, throw them in area. More shots/wounds for the points. If anything I'd drop a member of the Havoc squad and lose the icon since they likely won't get shot at the entire game anyway DP on the Raider I think it very valuable. And if you want a better 5 point investment, always go with the extra TL bolter on your Rhinos. +1 WD/Imm result and some rapid-fire TL goodness.

Raumkampfer wrote:Is that a Termicide squad, and, if so, what is the Raider used to transport?

It’s a sort-of termicide squad. It will usually drop. The Raider would usually hold the small scoring CSM squad, and potentially the Sorcerer as well, depending on the situation.

Raumkampfer wrote:Do you think it's wise to run a single, unpossessed Vindicator?

It can be. Depends on how much fire the LR, Dreads, Oblits and Rhinos draw. Part of the idea of the list is that there are a lot of targets for enemy antitank guns. Ideally the Vindi will be making use of cover, too. It’s one of a couple things in the list with a decent chance of penetrating AV14, and it also has nice synergy with Lash against non-vehicle units.

Raumkampfer wrote:How does your FLGS play the Fire Frenzy rules?

I never see anyone use Chaos Dreads at my FLGS, but I think that the revised LOS rules for dreads in 5th, upon which the INAT FAQ’s ruling is based, are pretty convincing.

Raumkampfer wrote:A Raider is a big pointsink, and especially so if there's no valuable cargo to transport.

That may be the case. I do tend to find, however, that AV14 is significantly more durable in 5th ed. The LR also provides useful cover for the prince and/or oblits. And it brings a couple more guns capable of hitting enemy skimmers from across the table, which is always nice in a chaos list. And it also happens to give the dreads something to shoot at which they can’t hurt, in the event that I’m not able to set up so as to have their LOS to my stuff completely denied. I think it brings some really nice qualities to the table. But you may well be right.

Raumkampfer wrote:Your Oblits and Vindicator are easy targets. There's not much else in the way of threats besides a lashing DP.

You don’t think the LR or the Rhino squads are threatening at all? Remember, too, that the Oblits can use the LR, Rhinos, and other terrain to minimize fire at themselves.

Raumkampfer wrote:The troop count is fairly low and you're up a creek if a squad gets taken out.

That is my main fear.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Keep the havocs, throw them in area. More shots/wounds for the points. If anything I'd drop a member of the Havoc squad and lose the icon since they likely won't get shot at the entire game anyway

Interesting idea. Reduce the investment, save 25pts. May be a good option.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:DP on the Raider I think it very valuable. And if you want a better 5 point investment, always go with the extra TL bolter on your Rhinos. +1 WD/Imm result and some rapid-fire TL goodness.

Yeah, I like DP on Raiders and Vindis. I'm just really scrounging for points in this list. I do like the twin-bolter idea, too.

mannahin just to weigh in on in dreads... IMO the reason alot of guys dont use them isnt the fire frenzy, irritating though it is, but because dreads, loyal or traitor, are kind of on the low end of the scale when it comes to close combat monsters. marines dont have many options but chaos, on the other hand....

Chaos Dreads can kill any tank with ease, and provides further armour saturation when moving up the board. They are a support unit, but can hold their own against plenty of units (especially if they dont have anything to hit back with).

Also, having two plasma cannon dreads next to one another has, if I remember correctly, less than a 1% chance to destroy each other.

That's exactly how I run my dreads.

I like the thought of 2 plasma cannon dreads walking next to a landraider, charging down the board. I think that in itself will draw a lot of attention away from the lone vindicator and the obliterators.

As stated you are low on troops. Running non-cultist you really do need more troops. I would suggest dropping the havocs. 6 havocs with 4 ML is not an idea loadout and you already have a fair ammount of anti-tank. The rule of thumb is 1 regular marine for every weapon, to ensure survivability. I personally dont like havocs, and think points better spent in troops. YMMV.

May I ask ( just a curious question ) , why do you take both a lash prince AND a lash sorc? Any particular reason ?

This thread is absolutely dead.
The Sorcerer is point-saving.

the armylist section is practically dead, with posters/responders I mean!

I agree with you.