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Hi guys,

I'm very new to the game, so any help is appreciated. The players at my local gaming club are very competitive, so I was able to pick up tactics and ideas from watching their games. However, no one else plays Tyranid anymore. They all rush to ebay their Tyranid armies couple weeks after the codex release. After playing with Tyranid for 30+ games, I lose more than winning. Coming from a new player, losing is expected, nor am I giving up Tyranid.

Here is the list:

HQ:

1x Swarmlord - 280 pts
2x Tyrant Guard - 120 pts

1x Tervigon - Adrenal glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst, Cluster Spines - 195 pts


Elites:

3x Hive guard - 150 pts

2x Zoanthrope - 120 pts
1x Mycetic Spore - 40 pts

1x Deathleaper - 140


Troops:

1x Tervigon - Toxing Sacs, Catalyst, Cluster Spines - 185 pts

10x Termagant - 50 pts

5x Genestealer - Toxing Sacs - 85 pts

5x Genestealer - Toxing Sacs - 85 pts


Heavy Support:

1x Trygon - 200 pts

1x Trygon - 200 pts


Total - 1850 pts.


Currently this is how I have been using this army. The HQ-Tervigon will push forward with my hive guards at one side, and swarmlord walks the other side with 10 gants and maybe a group of genestealer fallowing behind (the troop-tervigon will try to stay in range to cast FNP on the swarmlord).

How should I alter the list? How should I change my deployment? I don't do well in kill point missions. How should I deploy when Versus castle up mechanize marine and IG?

Thank you very much

For 1850 you've got a lot of high costing models. The swarmlord is costing a packet on it's own but throw in 2 guards as well.

Do you plan to use reserves? If not drop the deathleaper.

That amount of stealers won't last long. You need to double the unit size.

mercer wrote:For 1850 you've got a lot of high costing models. The swarmlord is costing a packet on it's own but throw in 2 guards as well.

Do you plan to use reserves? If not drop the deathleaper.

That amount of stealers won't last long. You need to double the unit size.

You are right about the swarmlord and 2 guards are very high cost. Before I make any alter to the list, I want to know what's your opinion on this matter: In the current 5th edition with all those mech army on the table, which Tyranid style does better (walking as a block, almost everything deep strike and out-flank, or half and half)?

In most objective games, the deathleaper just hop in and out until turn 5, then it goes to contest an objective. I was able to draw and win a few games if I go second, but most the time, it doesn't work as I planned. Maybe I'm using it wrong.

Thank you for your input.

Currently I use two tyrants in my army. The one setup is a walking tyrant with two guard with dual devourers and hive commander along with a few extras. I found that 2 guard are needed as one doesn't last long at all. Devourers work well for anti infantry mostly, but do well for light armour - 4+ to glance armour 10 is ok and with 12 shots which are twin linked you've got to do some damage.

Second tyrant has wings with hive commander and old adversary and has a 16 strong gargoyle brood as a screen; this gives the beast a 4+ cover save. Old adversary gives the gargoyles, tyrant and anything within 6" preferred enemy. I tried whip and sword but it's not brilliant so I now take 2 pairs of twin linked devourers, pop a transport and then gun down the survivors with the gargs or charge them with the tyrant.

This provides a first wave of attack with the gargoyles and tyrant which allows my tervigons to pop out termgants without hassle, also provides support for units deep striking in later.

I like the 2x TL devourers on tyrant. Walking with 2 guards sounds like a good idea. I'll try it.

As for the wing tyrant with 2x TL devourers, I have tried with gargoyle before, and I'm happy with their performances. In face, I tried with tervigon giving wing tyrant onslaught; that 19"-24" assault range coming from reserve was pretty deadly in few past games.

The only reason that I turn to swarmlord was because I'm losing combat against all these fast power weapon assault units, specially dark eldar and space wolf.


I'll update a new list soon.

Thank you for your input.

Less Deathleaper, More Genestealers with toxin sacs.

Might move the adrenal glands to the trygons instead of tervigons for high AV vehicle killing.

I like your list but why not take full advantage of the Swarmlords abilities (reserve roll +1 bonus and reroll infiltrate table edge).

Personally I would drop your Tervigon HQ. You've already taken a troop selection and these are perfect for taking/sitting on objectives.

Next I would beef out your Genestealer squads to around 8 models and wack in a broodlord if you can. The guys are awesome and very useful when it comes to wound allocation to keep your unit alive for longer.

I would also recommend dropping the deathleaper, i would either take 2 lictors for the same amount of points or put the points into your stealer squads to beef them out slightly because they are lacking and will get gunned down so quickly.

I'm also a big fan of warriors (of all shapes and sizes) in troops slots because they can plug any holes in synapse coverage pretty easily and they can perform lots of roles, such as providing covering fire in the shape of A3 S5 guns or a combatty role with rending claws if you think you need just the bit more combat punch with more survivability.

Other than that the list seems pretty solid, i'm not personally a fan of tervigons (except for their ability to cast FNP) but i hear they work pretty well, but is two overdoing it? I'd recommend dropping the HQ one and adding more combatty power or hormagaunt screens to your army.

Deathleaper definitely have its good and bad days, so I have mix feelings for it. That reduce leadership ability against psykers like chaos sorcerer, farseer and such is good. But for now, I'll let it rest and try another unit; 6 Ymgarl genestealers tag in. I have been looking for an excuse to try these guys, and they did not disappoint me in combat.

HQ - Tervigon: In kill point missions, she's a let down. For almost 200 points, she feels like a point sink to more destructive power. I used to take 2 Tervigons as troops, but those 2x 10 Termagants are juicy kill points. Anyway, I played 5 games with the new list after dropping the HQ - Tervigon; lost 2 games because lacking troops to hold objectives at the end.

As for Genestealer unit size, is 8-10 the magic number? Let say I go first and I infiltrate with them, hoping to get that first turn assault. It's hard to hide with a large unit of them. If I have to put them 18" away, I better pray for that 6" fleet and 6" assault through cover rolls. A large group of Genestealers are awesome for counter charge if I march my army up there. If I want to take advantage of the new Tyranid reserve style army, so I keep them for out-flanking. Here are what I usually find: devastator squad, broadsides, scout, troops holding objective. Since I get +1 on my reserve roll, they usually come in early, and turn out to be a suicide squad after killing something. I did not want to commit too much points for them, yet I want them to stay versatile. You guys are right, 5 is not enough, if I didn't finish those sneaky marines in 1 turn, they'll choose to run away from combat and finish me off from shooting. Since Genestealers have no frag grenades, I usually end up with 3 stealers fighting back with I1 (If I'm lucky). 10 is over kill for a suicide squad. I'll continue to play test the unit size, so far, 7 seems fair.

Here goes the list:

HQ:

Hive Tyrant- 2x devourers, hive commander, old adversary, wings, paroxysm, leech life - 310 pts


Elites:

3x Hive guard - 150 pts

2x Zoanthrope - 120 pts
1x Mycetic Spore - 40 pts

7x Ymgarl genestealer - 161 pts


Troops:

6x Warrior - Deathspitter - 210 pts

1x Tervigon - Toxing Sacs, Catalyst, Cluster Spines - 185 pts

10x Termagant - 50 pts

6x Genestealer - Toxing Sacs - 102 pts

7x Genestealer - Toxing Sacs - 119 pts


Heavy Support:

1x Trygon - 200 pts

1x Trygon - 200 pts


Total 1847 points


I'm trying the warriors. They are pretty good with out-flank holding side objective with 18 strength 5 shots. Instant death is an issue.

What do you guys think about the new list?

Thank you for your input.

I really think this is a good solid list now. You've pretty much got the standard competitive flyrant which i would expect because who doesn't love 12 x S6 shots?

I like how you have beefed up the stealer squads and added warriors (Yay!), both are really good. Someone suggested to me that if you are going to objective camp with termagants then its better to give them spike rifles due to the extra 6" range and most likely they will be out of synapse, i don't know i've never tried it.

You've got solid HS slots, two trygons one is bound to do some damage even if one gets killed.

As with ID problems with warriors thats always going to be an issue, what i'd do is if you outflank them using Hive commander, bring up a trygon near them, then if he going to shoot the warriors, the trygon will get away, this will mess with his target prioritising.

Other than that i think the list look really good and would like to know how it plays for you.

Here's what I like and don't like.

HQ:

Hive Tyrant- 2x devourers, hive commander, old adversary, wings, paroxysm, leech life - 310 pts

- Love this. I use this myself. Old Adversary though isnt that useful as your not going to be within 6 inches of most stuff so only the Tyrant sees the benefit. I would rather just fly him around shooting stuff and drop this upgrade.


Elites:

3x Hive guard - 150 pts
- Meh, take or leave them, To be fair i've not really used them to know how good they are. Good alternative to blow up some tanks if your Zoanthropes are getting shutdown by Hood and the like.

2x Zoanthrope - 120 pts
1x Mycetic Spore - 40 pts
- Total awesomeness in a pod. Make sure these guys are looked after though, keep a Trygon around as people will CC these to stop them being a threat. Synapse as well, what a bargain in a pod.

7x Ymgarl genestealer - 161 pts
- These guys are awesome. I rather take Doom personally which leaves you a few extra points for your troop units. But all reports of Ymgarl's have all been that they are devastating and solid.


Troops:

6x Warrior - Deathspitter - 210 pts
- Hate warriors. The only good thing about them is that they have Synapse. Personally I would drop these and beef out your Stealer units further.

1x Tervigon - Toxing Sacs, Catalyst, Cluster Spines - 185 pts
- Awesome Objective Holder. KEEP.

10x Termagant - 50 pts - Because you have to.

6x Genestealer - Toxing Sacs - 102 pts
More more more, get these guys up to 8-9 and add a broodlord, they are so important for wound allocation, let him take some wounds with his better save and 3 wounds.

7x Genestealer - Toxing Sacs - 119 pts


Heavy Support:

1x Trygon - 200 pts

1x Trygon - 200 pts


Total 1847 points


So overall if you were to drop the Warriors Synapse might be an issue so maybe wack one of your Trygons up to a prime and see how that fairs. Just my thoughts.

6x Warrior - Deathspitter - 210 pts
- Hate warriors. The only good thing about them is that they have Synapse. Personally I would drop these and beef out your Stealer units further.

So overall if you were to drop the Warriors Synapse might be an issue so maybe wack one of your Trygons up to a prime and see how that fairs. Just my thoughts.

Whats so bad about 18 x S6 shots with a 4+ save, 18 wounds and rerolling ones in combat, plus synapse, plus can hold objectives.

I really like how diverse warriors are, and how well they can survive provided you dont get 7-8 lascannons shots put into the unit they are great i think, i have a unit of 5 of them in my competitive list and not once have they failed to earn their points back.

After 3 days of gaming using the second list, I had 5 great games. I'm going through my notes and writing the battle reports at the moment. I'm pretty slow with the keyboard, so bare with me.

You guys can correct my mistakes, that will improve my game play, too.

First game was against a pure Khorne Daemon. I have no pictures, please bare with me.

His list: I didn't wrote down what upgrades they have.

Skulltaker
Herald on Juggernaut
Bloodthirster

6x Blood crusher

4x 10 bloodletters

2x soul grinder - phleghm, tongue

Pitched battle - Annihilation. The battle field have 5 building size difficult terrains; 1 at each corner and 1 at the center of the table.

I won the role and choose to go second. I reserved everything because I was scare of the soul grinder shooting.

Turn 1 - His
He got his preferred wave. Both soul grinders hugs the center building. Skulltaker, Bloodthirster and Crusher run into center terrain for cover.

Turn 2 - His
1 bloodletter came in and stay behind the soul grinders.

Turn 2 - Me
Everything came in except 1 tyrgon and 7x genestealer. Me being a dummy and went with the obvious hiding terrain for my Ymgarl genestealers. He read my mind and cover up the terrain with his soul grinders and crushers, so the Ymgarl stealers were auto destroy. Zoanthrope exploded 1 soul grinder. Hive Tyrant fly up and stay out of charge range and put 2 wounds on Bloodthirster from shooting. Hive Guards walk up behind Hive Tyrant and finish off bloodthirster (I was lucky). Trygon came up on his table side and scatter too close to his bloodletters, and gun down 2 bloodletters. Warriors out-flank left side and hide in cover; couldn't reach anything with their guns. Terigon walk up left side and cast FNP on the warriors. Termagants hugs the left side terrain, and 6 genestealers hugs the right side terrain.

(me 2 - him 1)

Turn 3 - His
Everything else came in. 10x bloodletters run up next to my right side genestealers. 10x bloodletters hides in the center terrain close to my zoanthropes. 10x bloodletters runs behind the Crushers. Crusher with Herald going for the Hive Tyrant and Hive guards.
Soul Grinder drops everything on my zoanthrope, instant kill the pod with the large blast and 1 zoanthrope, the other zoanthrope is down to 1 wound (lucky). Skulltaker + 8 bloodletters charged the Trygon, and shredded it down to nothing.

Turn 3 - Me
Everything else came in. Trygon drop on my left side, and 7x genstealers went to the right side near my zoanthrope and getting ready for a counter charge on the bloodletters. Zoanthrope targeted the Soul Grinder and missed. Warriors moved closer barely reach the crushers with their guns. Put 3 wounds on the crushers, trygon put another wound on them with shooting. Hive Tyrant fly away from them and put another 2 wounds on them (Finally 2 crusher models are remove). Terivgon dropped a large blast on the crusher and didn't do anything. Since Hive Guards couldn't avoid the incoming charge, so move up and put 1 wound on them and took out another model. Hive Guards charged in and took 3 wounds and did nothing against them, so they are lock in combat. Genestealers on the right side didn't move since they have no frag grenade versus bloodletters.

(me 2 - him 3)

Turn 4 - Him
Skulltaker + 8 bloodletters stays behind the soul grinder, and moved and ran closer to my left side. Soul grinder punched everything into my Hive Tyrant, dropped it down the 2 wounds, and the Phlegm blast scattered to the warriors; instant killed 2 of them. A group of bloodletters finished the zoanthrope, and consolidated away from my genestealers. The 10x bloodletters on my left side charged into the 6x genestealers, I slaughtered 5 bloodletters, and he shredded 4 stealers. The bloodletters that were behind the Crushers run closer to my Hive Tyrant. Crusher trampled over the hive guards, and consolidated closer to my Hive Tyrant on the left side. He is up to 5 Kill Points at this moment.

Turn 4 - Me
Hive Tyrant flied, tyrgon moved away from their charge range. Everyone focus fire on the Crusher group and sent them back to the Warp. 7x genestealers on the right side with their lucky fleet roll, they charged into the 10x bloodletter squad and took out 7 bloodletters and they killed 2 genestealers. He rolled bad for the no retreat wounds, so my genestealers consolidated closer to the other genestealer vs bloodletter fight on the right side. My remaining 2 stealers killed 2 bloodletters before they die, so 3 bloodletters consolidated deeper into the right side terrain.

(Me 4 - Him 5)

Turn 5 - Him
With nothing in charge range, the ran everything into the left side terrain. Soul Grinder dropped everything on the 4x warriors squad and finished them with ease.

Turn 5 - Me
All my remaining models moved to the left side table corner. Tervigon popped 14 gaunts and hoping they'll block the incoming charge. 10 Termagant (Been sitting at the table corner the whole game) + 14 gaunts + Hive Tyrant took out 1 squad of 10 bloodletters with shooting. Tervigon + Trygon took out 3 Bloodletters from the Skulltaker squad. Now I have 2 layers of gauntsat front of my Trygon, Tervigon, and Hive Tyrant all standing at the table edge. I'm ready for the incoming charge. I rolled the dice to see if the game ends, and I GOT A 2!

Game ends in a draw (Me 5 - Him 5), but we decided to go on and see what will happen, since next turn will be an epic assault.

Turn 6 - Him
He moved everything in. His Soul Grinder's vomit and phlegm clean up nearly all my gaunts, and putted 3 wounds on my tervigon. Since he was targeting my Tervigon, he can still assault. Skulltaker, bloodletter, and soul grinder all multi-charge in. He position skulltaker's base touching both my tervigon and trygon, and splited his attacks, 4 on the trygon and 1 on the tervigon. In the end, Skulltaker took Trygon's skull with an instant kill, Bloodletters cut down Hive Tyrant, and Soul Grinder puts 2 more wounds on the tervigon who later die from no retreat wounds. I only managed to do minor scratches on his Soul Grinder and bloodletters.

Turn 6 - Me
I have only 5 Genestealers on the table. Yeah.....


Crazy Daemon. I should of shoot down skulltaker first. The Warriors didn't do much in this game beside a few wounds from shooting. Maybe I'm not using them right. Ymgarl genestealer didn't get to come in and play. Trygons didn't do much either. The way I'm seeing it, without frag grenade, I don't want to charge my opponent. When I want to move back and soften up their units with shooting, I end up losing the advantage being inside terrain.


Next game up, Dark Eldar.

Its seems the warriors in your list didn't do much. Can be expected in some games especially if your running Deathspitter Warriors. The key with them is to position them so that they can a cover save and still be in range of 1-2 units. Position your warriors right is key.

If the enemy then has alot of shooting to put into them, consider running them out of cover and into assault. If they're starting to get shot down, thats your best bet to try and save them from being shot down in 1 turn. With scything talons and a DS, they're an average assault unit and should fair well unless your outnumbered on wounds by 2:1.

Sounded like a good game though. Since i love warriors, thats what i will be defending, i know not many people like them, but i just love 'em