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So, I'm messing around with some 1850-2000 All-Comers lists and have come to a fork in the road. Either way I go, the final 2k list will have a total of 3 Drop Pods, 2 of which will be Drop Dreads (both with MM/DCCW&Flamer). There will also be three 10 man Tactical squads in Razorbacks with all the trimmings, and Thunderfire Cannons.



So the choices are:

#1
Lysander running with
10 Tactical Terminators, 2 with Assault Cannons & Chain fists and
a sprinkling of homers/beacons in the rest of the list

-or-

#2
Vulkan He'Stan running with
a Stock Librarian, Epistolary (Nullzone, Avenger) and
10 Sternguard with a fist, 2 heavy flamers, and 8 combi-meltas in a Drop Pod (Yes I like to pimp out my Sternguard, they look bad ass and are fun as hell!)

-or-

#3
Vulkan He'Stan running with
10x Sternguard with a fist, 2 heavy flamers, and 8 combi-meltas in a Drop Pod
A Typhoon speeder

Complete lists are posted below.


For 1850, I would ditch some tactical marines for the Lysander & Terminator list -or- nix the Librarian (or speeder and some marines if I decide to go with Vulkan & Sterguard.


Have at it, and thanks in advance!

Lysander and sternguard in a drop pod. Twin linked special ammunition and viable close combat. Absorb heavy shots with lysander and shoot hard every thing. If you want a kamikaze team here it is. It's 1 kp less than hestan and lybrarian. It kills from swarm to daemon princes. And remember to back up them with other firebaits. If they are free to moove and shot-kill the can really arras every thing. Cons. No invulnerable saves in cc except lysander they are basicaly space marines. Well against enemy fire you can hide or get cover. The other option was shooty term. I don't really like it in the turn they arrive (if they arrive in 2-3 turn) they will be shoot by entire army.

That's my opinion be free to insult

I agree with above Lysander and Sternguard are ace together. Pedro and Sternguard are also ace together if sternguard is your bag. Lysander + Pedro + Sternguard all in DPs is horrific (20 Sternguard half with bolter drill 4 Heavy flamers, loads of combi-meltas everyone has 3 attacks as standard except Lysander with now 4, nasty).

Vulkan works well with Hammernators in a shooty list built for his special ability. Though Sternguard also work well in a Vulkan list but the whole list has to be built for either Pedro or Vulkan to be truely competitive.

Ive actually been thinking a bit and am starting to lean towards option 3. The 3 full tac squads looks appealing at 200 points, and the typhoon speeder is decent at everything. Granted its only one, but it will maintain distance and if they shoot it down then they aren't shooting my thunderfires or razorbacks with that long range gun for a turn.

Vulkan is just Vilkan, not much to be said about it. He beefs up my Tac squads, beefs up my dreadnoughts, and beefs up my Sternguard. He is also 190 points and if I feel that I want a librarian on the field instead, (facing Deamons) I can sub in a Terminator Epistolary Librarian with a storm shield, Null Zone and Vortex for the same points.

I see where you guys are coming from with Lysander + sternguard, and it does look pretty tempting.

Choice 4 (the best): Vulkan and TH/SS Terminators.

But with secret choice 4, that means a land raider too... and land raiders don't live to long in my local metagame. A lot of deep striking melta and lances of both the bright and dark variety.

(that's why you bring 2+)

Well, Im also a bit poor-ish atm and only have one land raider. Pluss, im not really fond of having 500+ points devoted to two models that have the possibility of being taken out with 1 shot each. Ill pass on that.

Anyways, the more I think about the typhoon and marines (option #3), the more I like that option. And If I really feel that I need a Librarian (ie- against deamons), I can swap Vulkan out for an Epistolary in TDA with a storm shield, Null Zone and Vortex as they are both the same points cost.

So at 2k points, the list looks like:

Vulkan (or Terminator Epistolary with ss)
10 Sternguard with 2 Heavy flamers, 8 combi-meltas, and a fist in a Pod
2 Dreads with MM & DCCW/HF in Pods
2 Thunderfire Cannons
2 ten man Tactical squads, meltagun, lascannon, sarge with a fist, loaded into a Razorback with a Twin Assault Cannon
1 ten man Tactical squads, meltagun, plasma cannon, sarge with a fist, loaded into a Razorback with a Twin Assault Cannon
1 Typhoon-H.Bolter Speeder

-or-

Lysander
10 Tactical Terminators, 2 with Assault cannon & Chainfist
2 Dreads with MM & DCCW/HF in Pods with Beacons
1 Thunderfire Cannon given a Pod with Beacon (just to have 3 pods total)
2 ten man Tactical squads, meltagun, lascannon, sarge with a fist, loaded into a Razorback with a Twin Assault Cannon
1 ten man Tactical squad, meltagun, plasma cannon, sarge with a fist and Teleport Homer, loaded into a Razorback with Las/twin-plas

1) If you are running that leave Vulkan at home.
2) You don't need that many Sternguard
3) A single speeder is a waste of points
4) Any amount of thunderfire is a waste of points
5) There is too much fat in the list (fat = overkill on upgrades) so it looks really really small for 2k points.

NO.3

Fearspect wrote:1) If you are running that leave Vulkan at home.

I've considered that option, note the Epistolary Librarian in TDA idea.

Fearspect wrote:2) You don't need that many Sternguard

Aw, but its fun! And I've found it quite effective when dropped at the right place. Yeah its a bit of overkill, but if something is worth killing, it is worth overkilling!

Fearspect wrote:3) A single speeder is a waste of points

Maybe, it has crossed my mind, but I'm not sure what else would be effective that I can spend the points on. I'm not too sure, never really ran speeders much before. I've played Salamanders since 3rd edition and Codex:Armageddon so my lists are always light on the fast attack options.

Fearspect wrote:4) Any amount of thunderfire is a waste of points

Spoken like someone who has never used one before... or at least never seen one used correctly. Not only can a single thunderfire do terrible things when it shoots, but it forces your opponent to deploy and play differently. I have only played with 2 cannons in four games so far and I had never lost both cannons at once, lost one cannon in 2 of the games, and lost neither cannon the other two. I like how well they work in a pair.

Fearspect wrote:5) There is too much fat in the list (fat = overkill on upgrades) so it looks really really small for 2k points.

The only fat I can see that can be cut are sternguard upgrades. The tactical squad upgrades are pretty much necessary for how I run them. The Razorbacks with twin assault cannons are a little pricey too, but I cannot count the times those masses assault cannon barrages have wiped a squad or MC or vehicle from the table. Heavy Bolters just wont cut it IMO, but then again, 105 points for the three is a bit steep... hmm...

Well, I'd consider Lysander and 10 Termies with 2 cyclones.

Cyclones are really nice but I take the assault cannon mainly for my own personal reasons. The thing is that I would feel tempted to use Krak missiles against vehicles or targets past 24" too often and thus be wasting the wonderful storm bolter shooting that the unit can put out. Thus I stick with the assault cannon. Same range as a storm bolter, and even better against the same targets a storm bolter would fire at, plus it can still be used in emergency situations against armor and tougher targets (even though an assault cannon and CML have statistically similar odds of penetrating an AV12 target, I am personally less psychologically tempted to fire the assault cannon at one... don't know why, just am).

Most importantly for me in this case, is that the assault cannon wins out when the "Rule of Cool" is factored in. A sweet looking mini-gun in hand looks way cooler than a big rectangular box on top of the terminators head.