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Hey folks!

I had a crazy idea this morning, thought I would post it here for discussion.

Vassal (for those of you who don't know) has a 40k module that lets you literally play a game of 40k exactly as if you at the table rolling dice, except that its from the comfort of your computer screen. You move your models, roll your dice, and play exactly like on the table. The only downside is that the entire game is played from a crow's eye view, and you can't get down to inspect TLOS (although you do have LOS tools), so terrain discussions before the game to discuss the height of things becomes more important than in a normal game. Aside from that, anyone can build any list from any codex they like on Vassal, and play a game.

There are some other very positive things with using vassal:

1. Your measurements happen in 1" increments, and your opponent can see your movement trail. Getting away with cheating is impossible.
2. No one has special dice - all dice are rolled through the program's RNG.
3. Armor facings, deployment zones from vehicles, 2" coherency....all those little things have a tool in Vassal, so that you can click a vehicle to see its armor facings, you can make a vehicle bubble its 2" deployment range from hatches, you can create a 12" and 24" bubble around a scout-capable model to turbo-boost it 24" while ensuring you stay 12" away.

And the most obvious benefit would be that you don't have to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to travel to the event, just have a PC, Vassal, and Skype.

My initial thoughts:

1. Not sure what to do about time zones. If I'm running it, Europeans would have some weekend late nights, although I'm toying with the idea of having maybe 1 round per day for Sat/Sun, or having 1 round per week on Saturdays so that we can minimize the impact of timezones. On the flip side, it might be difficult to get everyone to be able to schedule two hours at the same time for 4-5 weeks running. Unless I were to do a three week tournament, with 1 game a day on Sat/Sun each week (6 games total). Or perhaps two games per day, for three Saturdays. Or two games per day for Sat/Sun for two weeks. A lot of ways to work that. The most important note is that between round communications would be difficult without the ability to make central announcements to everyone (except on Skype, with everyone in a global chat channel for time calling and stuff). But the between round pairings would need time to sort out, and would be best posted on Dakka or something so that everyone can see them. I can assign every player a number if need be so that no one feels like someone else is gaming the system to prepare against them if rounds happen over the course of days/weeks.
2. Point level would probably be 1500 points; I'd like to insure that we can get through games speedily.
3. Requirements for every player would be to have Vassal (the program), Skype (free voice chat) and a working headset.
4. Tables can be preset. For a 5 round tournament I can make five tables that are extremely precise in their labeling so the 2D view doesn't mess with TLOS, and all round 1 games can be on the same table. All round2 games can be on the same table (not the same as table 1), but basically all players using the same table as all other players during a given round.
5. For a global GT like this, payments would have to be via paypal, and my first thought is to give out gift certificates to the Warstore, although perhaps the option should be left available for people to get to shop at Maelstrom, or just to give out paypal prizes.
6. All players would be required to have Skype installed, and part of their registration would be to get in touch with the organizer via Skype. Vassal usernamers would have to be the same as Skype names. All players would have to submit their final army list ahead of time, and they would also have to save their army (the models) in Vassal ahead of time as a log file so that when they show up for their next game, they can import their models into the game instantaneously.
7. I would have a panel of judges available in Skype for each round (selected from people around here and that I know that are very handy with the rules), so that any player can post in the general conference line when they need a judge, one of the judges would speak up, and the player would invite them into their conference call, at which point the judge would join their game room on Vassal, synchronize to the table to see what's going on, and make a judgment on whatever is required.

That's my thoughts so far. Input welcome.

*EDIT*

Here's an article on Vassal at Lexicanum - it also has a link to the 5th edition Tyranid sprites.
Here's an article from Mini War Gaming on where to get the Vassal 40k module and how to use it.
Here's Gwar's guide to Saving and Loading armies in Vassal which is very useful.

And before anyone comments; while GW may have issued a C&D to someone about Vassal, there is no Vassal content being hosted by Dakka or being infringed on; relax.

Would we be marked on painting

Hell yeah! I'm so up for this. Army list making time...

EDIT-Any way we could play in the 1750-2000 range? Certain books (Nids most prominently) need that points level to compete effectively.

There would be no painting score, no comp score.....and probably no sportsmanship score.

The UKGT (as well as the SVDM GT) seemed to adequately demonstrate to me that people who are expected to behave like adults will do so. Besides, judge intervention if someone is straining their welcome is always an option.

There is a problem.
It would be 'scouts honor' not to cheat.
The ranges are easily measure by 'ruler to measure Vassal ruler to pre-measure stuff'.

There is really no way to catch this.

_______________________

Secondly...seriously? After the creator got his C+D letter and it's still going strong? Or am I missing some info on the situation where GW is ok with this now?

Since the 40k module of Vassal was never updated and is not available from their site, is there anyway to upload the module so everyone has the same version?

Also, Vassal has a big learning curve and pre-loading is a pain. I can't stress enough how important it will be to discuss los and terrain issues with each table.

But yeah, it would be fun.

This actually was done before on some European site at the 1500 level like sometime last year. I forget which one. Friend told me about it I played in it despite having to do late nights to play. It was a blast but the late nights were a bit rough.

I'd be interested if you ran one.

Sanctjud wrote:Secondly...seriously? After the creator got his C+D letter and it's still going strong? Or am I missing some info on the situation where GW is ok with this now?

The creators did take it down. Can't stop us from still using the program.

Still play Alien Assault too.

Sanctjud wrote:There is a problem.
It would be 'scouts honor' not to cheat.
The ranges are easily measure by 'ruler to measure Vassal ruler to pre-measure stuff'.

There is really no way to catch this.

_______________________

Secondly...seriously? After the creator got his C+D letter and it's still going strong? Or am I missing some info on the situation where GW is ok with this now?

Vassal 40k is now hosted by an international group not subject to American or British law. Bwah ha ha.

Also, with zooming functions and other things....the ruler to screen thing doesn't really work. Also, no one uses the ruler. Threads are how you measure now, and when you use it, your opponent can see you doing so. I've been playing Vassal for quite some time, and this one honestly doesn't worry me.

Uriels_Flame, a google search of Vassal 40k will get you the right version. You have to download the tyranid sprites for 5th separately, but that's it.

And Vassal does have a learning curve, but the pre-loading of armies is actually easy. Gwar wrote a guide on it; I can walk anyone through saving their army, and having them actually do it in about 15 seconds.

In terms of LOS and terrain - I would basically have all the boards made with each piece of terrain having a note about what kind of cover it is, how high it is, etc. So a building is a square on your board, but on top of it is a big note that says, "Building is 9" tall, has windows" or "Warehouse has single exit in the back, 6" tall, impassible terrain" kind of stuff.

I know about the threads.
When Vassal 40K was in full swing over in 40KO we even had our own board there.

About the ruler thing, it's not 'using' the ruler, it's using the length of it to 'better' guestimate ranges. It's not just the ruler but also the movement trails.

/shrug, I made it a point to delete the ruler and turn off movement trails when I played...but in my experience, the accuracy on Vassal to getting off ranges one wants is easier than in real life. But that's only me.

As for the Int Group, I Lawl too, nice one there.

This is actually very similar to online Heroclix tournaments I played in which were amazing fun. I'd actually have to figure out buying headsets and learning Skype (I am contentedly bohemian) but would certainly be interested in learning more as this develops.

Headset with a microphone: $20
Skype: Free
Vassal: Free
Entering a GT that you play from your computer: $??
Discovering that despite living far away from civilization, you can play 40k at will: Priceless!

Dashofpepper wrote:Headset with a microphone: $20 Inbuilt Laptop mic: free
Skype: Free
Vassal: Free
Entering a GT that you play from your computer: $??
Discovering that despite living far away from civilization, you can play 40k at will: Priceless!

Fixed

Sounds like fun.

I would strongly encourage you to consult Xtapl for info and pointers about organization and logistics. He’s run seven tournaments like this already (using Lorenz) for Warhammer FB, and I’m certain will have a lot of extremely useful knowledge about perils, pitfalls, and best practices.

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=69503&hilit=ashes+tournament

As a note, Ashes also uses army composition and other rules you will no doubt want nothing to do with, but as far as organization and logistics go, I can't think of a better resource.

Very good idea I wouldn't mind joining it and trying it out, kinda doing the same for march madness atm at my local GW so this would be fun to do both at the same time(i love to play through wins and loses...and those gay draws). Keep us updated Dash.

Yeah Im in for sure. If I can be of any assistance helping out give me a shout.

Oswitz wrote:Very good idea I wouldn't mind joining it and trying it out, kinda doing the same for march madness atm at my local GW so this would be fun to do both at the same time(i love to play through wins and loses...and those gay draws). Keep us updated Dash.

Cool. If you're ever looking for a game and I'm online, I'd be happy to play.

I think it's a great idea. Mannahnin has a great suggestion, and if you can talk to them and get the info on how best to organize this, I think you'd get a lot of takers here.

It might be more appropriate to call it something other than a GT but it's catchy, and conveys the high level of play you're looking for.

I'd be worried about gamers signing up and then not following through... but that's probably addressed in the link Mannahnin gave, it must have come up before.

RiTides wrote:I think it's a great idea. Mannahnin has a great suggestion, and if you can talk to them and get the info on how best to organize this, I think you'd get a lot of takers here.

It might be more appropriate to call it something other than a GT but it's catchy, and conveys the high level of play you're looking for.

I'd be worried about gamers signing up and then not following through... but that's probably addressed in the link Mannahnin gave, it must have come up before.

I intend this to be a paid event (thus GT) with prize support - except that its not in person. So if someone registers and signs up and pays...then doesn't show - *shrugs* more prize support.

Ah, makes sense! That's the best motivation for this kind of thing, after all

anyone care to share the link for the 40K modules?

I have been thinking about this for a while as well. However, I think that Vassal by its nature is better suited for a league type thing. We could have a thread for it and a ranking chart here on Dakka. That is, if someone was willing to organize it.

I might be willing to organize a league as well, but for starters, I'd like to get a tournament in and see how it goes. Comments and such still welcome on how best to organize it, if you'd participate, what you'd like to see, all that jazz.

I would participate for sure.

this could be fun, but why not run a trial first, have everything set up the way you want it, have people come a play a dry run once or twice and get a feel for it before charging people to come play just my thoughts. either way this sounds fun and at the very least I will come to watch.

This has been done several times by Europeans as a free tournament on Vassal for bragging rights as a practice for the their real life GT circuit at 1500 points before Vassal 40k was shut down. It is quite fun other then the losing sleep to play games with Euros part.

A paid GT online opens a whole another can of worms.

can someone please post a link to the 40k mod?

Thanks!

Google is your friend.

Try "Vassal 40k"

I have Vassal, but have no idea how to play on it.

Count me in.


Clay