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Hey folks!

I played against BT in a game today (in a tournament) and had a problem.
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Here's the entry from Righteous Zeal:

In the shooting phase, any infantry unit (not jump infantry) that is not pinned or falling back must take a morale check if it suffers any casualties from enemy shooting, not just when it suffers 25% casualties. All other units in the Black Templars army check morale and fall back as normal. Note that all Black Templar units take pinning tests as normal.

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The ultimate question: WHEN do you resolve righteous zeal? See the attached poll.

The problem we had in the game is that Ghazghkull and 15 burnas piled out of a battlewagon in front of a huge squad of Black Templar, with a Master of Sanctity attached. The master had 3 servitors. I shot at his squad with a big shoota, and killed a single scout attachment. I had also declared my Waaaugh! that turn, so Ghazghkull and the burnas used their fleet to shift around to make sure everyone would get into base contact. Then, at the end of the shooting phase, my opponent took an 8" Righteous Zeal movement AWAY from me, and towards an enemy unit across the board - he rolled a 5, and his servitors give +1" apiece for a 3" maximum addition. He also said that having the Master of Sanctity allowed him to choose which target to go after, he didn't have to move towards the nearest.

The result is that he got to run 8" away from me so that on my Waaaugh! I didn't get to assault him. The following turn, he turned around and beat the crap out of me.

I pitched a fit because I read the codex to say that you take it when you suffer casualties. IE, I cause a casualty - bam; righteous zeal is triggered and resolved. That may also mean you get multiple righteous zeal moves per turn if multiple units shoot and inflict casualties on the enemy unit. The bottom line is that he got to move 8" away from me after all my fleeting, which could only get 1" away from him - forcing me into being unable to assault. The obvious answer in this case is, "Well, if I had known you played like that, I wouldn't have shot at you" and he obviously noted that he was counting on my lack of knowledge of his codex for an advantage.

My opponent (and the TO) ruled that you resolve Righteous Zeal at the end of the shooting phase....so I just got boned. =p I actually still pulled a draw out of my butt, but the game went from roflstomp to roflstomped in my assault phase during my Waaaugh! You can imagine my displeasure. Please weigh in.

You take it at the end of the Phase. The rule says you take a morale check if you take casualties NOT JUST WHEN IT SUFFERS 25%.

So in short, you take the morale check at the end of the phase, the same way as if you had lost 25%, but you take it if you lose any.

However, he did not move correctly. RZ requires you to move towards the closest visible enemy unit. If Ghazzy was closer, he would have been forced to move towards him.

Edit: I saw he had a Chaplain, in that case, yes, he could choose to RZ towards a different enemy.

So, the lesson is don't shoot BT if you want to assault them

Well, I recovered from my hissy fit (and apologized for it) - its just a *real* hard pill to swallow when you're cost a tournament game by a rules misunderstanding.

Dashofpepper wrote:Well, I recovered from my hissy fit (and apologized for it) - its just a *real* hard pill to swallow when you're cost a tournament game by a rules misunderstanding.

Yeah I know that feeling. Well, at least you know for next time

Dashofpepper wrote:Well, I recovered from my hissy fit (and apologized for it) - its just a *real* hard pill to swallow when you're cost a tournament game by a rules misunderstanding.

It's hard to meet an army in a tournament that you haven't had much experience against.

Dashofpepper wrote:----------------------------
Here's the entry from Righteous Zeal:

In the shooting phase, any infantry unit (not jump infantry) that is not pinned or falling back must take a morale check if it suffers any casualties from enemy shooting, not just when it suffers 25% casualties. All other units in the Black Templars army check morale and fall back as normal. Note that all Black Templar units take pinning tests as normal.

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I read that as being a modifier to the usual "Taking Morale Checks - A) Casualties" rule, which specifies "at the end of the phase." (If it happened immediately, the BT player would have to make a morale test after each unit shot him & inflicted casualties.)

The best way to consider this is as an artifact from 3E 40k. If you made a zeal move EVERY time you got shot at, Templorks would be ridiculously fast to cross the board.

In any case, the only thing the RZ rule changes from the normal morale rules are the criteria for testing (1 casualty vs. 25%) and the result of a passed morale check (movement towards nearest enemy[barring a chaplain]).

kartofelkopf wrote:In any case, the only thing the RZ rule changes from the normal morale rules are the criteria for testing (1 casualty vs. 25%) and the result of a passed morale check (movement towards nearest enemy[barring a chaplain]).

I agree... and wow, I have the BT codex and didn't even notice the entry about a master of sanctity/chaplain letting his unit RZ towards any enemy unit. That's crazy!

Also, I know it was all in the heat of the moment, but it wouldn't make any sense at all for them to take the check right after taking a casualty from shooting. As was said above... imagine how far a squad could move if this were the case, and they were shot at by multiple different units!

Just to piggyback on your question Dash, I am not familiar with the BT codex, all I have to go on is what Army Builder tells me. However, for my own clarification the Cenobyte Servitors do not count as being part of a unit with the Chaplain's?

Meaning they can chill out with him and he can still be attached to a squad? If so that is really good, since you can allocate all those nasty AP3 or better shots to the Servitors.

Yes, Chaplain and Cenobytes can join a squad. They still take up room on a transport.