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I'm pretty set on playing Raven Guard, even though I've been told they're not viable. They're easy to paint and utilise scouts (have lots of) and Shrike (like lots). So what would a good, solid Raven Guard build look like? Again, they don't need to win tournaments or anything.


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Wait a minute... my subconscious just spat something out! Can Could you use Blood Angels rules for Raven Guard? This would mean Assault Squad troops!

I'm 2 unassembled pods away from having this one ready to playtest

-Shrike
-Epistolary with gate/null
-10 Sternguard, 8 combi-meltas, pod w/ beacon
-10 Tac marines, melta, multimelta, combimelta, pod w/ beacon
-10 Tac marines, melta, multimelta, combimelta, pod (no beacon)
-10 Tac marines, melta, multimelta, combimelta, (no pod)
-10 scouts, combat blades, power weapon on the sergeant
-3 identical units of 10 Assault marines with dual flamers, powerfist sarge
2000 points exactly

It's a Stelek list from the yesthetruthhurts.com blog. It should work.

There's also a Shrike + bikes list on yesthetruthhurts.

What would you do @ the 1500pt level though??

This Shrike list doesn't scale well because it really depends on having all those marine bodies out there, but probably I'd drop the librarian, the locator beacons, one of the tac squads and their pod, maybe also drop the second pod, and then tweak sternguard numbers downward until I was under 1500.

Probably be better off with Shrike & bikes at 1500 though.

What works for Stelek doesn't automatically mean it works for everyone...
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It looks decent, but I've never been too impressed with Gating Sternguard.

Edit: Spelling.

Sanctjud wrote:What works for Stelek goesn't automatically mean it works for everyone...
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It looks decent, but I've never been too impressed with Gating Sternguard.

In this particular list, because it's kind of weird, the gating sternguard fill a firepower gap. Really nothing shoots very much in this whole army, so when you absolutely have to shoot something that you don't want to assault, sternguard with meltas have the flexibility and just the right kind of bullet to have a chance of handling anything (and gate lets them land in the right spot). So they'll mostly be looking to shoot and stand off, which I think that's different from how I mostly see podding/gating sternguard used--as a hammer unit that drops early, gets one volley, then dies--which I also find unimpressive. Also hopefully in a crowd of 70(!) other marines, they won't be as much of a priority target.

But clearly this is an advanced-users list. One that uses more scouts and a unit of infiltrating assault terminators is much more point-and-click.

I like something like this...

Shike

Assault Marines (infiltrated with Shrike)
Scouts (CC)
Scouts (Sniper- holding home objectives)

TH/SS Termies in LRC/LRR (hurray for possible 27" assault range! )
Podding MM/HF Dreads

Scout Bikers

Everytihng but the Dreads can get a first turn assault, and the Dreads can get first tunr Melta/Flamer action.

The down side is the same as it is for most Shrike lists....it really needs to go first.

Yea, point and click.
But I would call it more of a trick pony instead.
The Ass Termies are not all encompassing and are just there for shock value, it's not too hard to deal with it if you see it coming.

As for the advanced-users list, it's just that, an all-comers list that has overlapping support systems that don't present a noticable target over everything else...I guess a different kind of target saturation.

/shrug, I'm just not a fan of using pod lists...most opponents just either castle with screens or full reserves...even I do it to pod lists... it's not fun for them.


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@Alerian:

The down side is the same as it is for most Shrike lists....it really needs to go first.

And that it's not Dawn of War

That is why I like scouts and scout bikers.

DoW is hard on Shrike, as is facing a Mech reserve list; however, by using Scouts, you get the ability to Ouflank, which helps some. That being said, Shrike is still the biggest one-trick-pony in the dex.

I don't know... scouts are pretty slow, while Scout bikers can turbo on first turn or use regular reserves.

You have lots of deployment options for the scout bikers, but that only gets them so far. They are quite fragile in terms of armor/numbers and require to be in that threat range to operate.

The Scout bikers are as much a one-trick-pony as Shrike is.

Sanctjud wrote:I don't know... scouts are pretty slow, while Scout bikers can turbo on first turn or use regular reserves.

You have lots of deployment options for the scout bikers, but that only gets them so far. They are quite fragile in terms of armor/numbers and require to be in that threat range to operate.

The Scout bikers are as much a one-trick-pony as Shrike is.

When I said Shike is the biggest one trick pony, I meant Shrike lists

I only like scouts with him because fleeting scouts, with their scout move and deployment options are far better than tac squads or sternguard with Shike's playstyle. I was just pointing out that I pretty much only like Scouts/scoutbikers/podding Dreads/and Assault Termies with LRC/LRRs to take advantage of Shikes rules, with the fewest drawbacks.

I still don't like Shike that much (other than fleeting TH/SS Termies- we are too slow to Sweeping Advance, but we can FLEET! - that is just funny).... I would rather use Vulcan or Pedro, but the OP is set on Raven Guard and wanted ideas

first of all using a raven guard army really depends on how you and your friends interpret shrike's infiltration special rule. Some people say a unit can't deploy with him and infilitrate, but others do. Shrike is a 1 trick pony, but he can do pretty well.

I used to run the following at 1500.

Shrike

10 scouts 9 bp ccw 1 shotgun powerfist on sarge
10 scouts 9 bp ccw 1 shotgun powerfist on sarge

10 assault marines with powerfist

10 Assault terminators infiltrating with Shrike

then fill out the rest of the poinst with either bikes/speeders pods whatever. your first turn is incredibily powerful, but if the opponent decides to reserve everything it can really reduce the impact of the army.

Unless it's a ground pounder enemy army, then you just conga-line his deployment zone...you'll 'kill' anything not DSing or Outflanking

Yeah, that's why I don't agree that a Shrike army (at least the Stelek version) has to go first or is a one-trick pony. Even going second, the army is so fast that you only need to eat one turn of fire (maybe two in dawn of war, but one of those under night fight) before you're assaulting his lines.

There's a lot you can do if your opponent doesn't deploy. Like cordon off part of his deployment zone edge with a scout conga, forcing him to come in where your troops are waiting to pounce (except vehicles, obviously). Or just hug cover centrally and eat that turn of fire before coming out and assaulting.

And if your group doesn't buy the reading of the rules that lets Shrike give a unit infiltrate ability, then just put him with your scouts, no big deal.

It's still all theoretical for me at this point, though. We'll see how it plays out.

true, true. I've actually tabled someone on turn 1 because he reserved and I blocked the entire board with my 31 infiltrating models and it was a horde list without any mech and he couldn't get any models on to the board it was really funny. after I "won" we restard the game and he actually deployed.

I used to run something like this...

Shrike
Bike Captain

10 Assault termies

3 x 5 BP/CCW Scouts (sarge has power fist)
3 LSS's w/Multi-meltas
2 full Melta Bike units

Worked decently.

I'd think about using new blood angels. Scoring assault squads screams Raven Guard.

Thanks guys, but if I play them using Blood Angels rules, can I still use Shrike? Won't including Shrike replace the Blood Angels' rules? Something about Combat tactics/Chapter tactics, not sure how it works I'm an Ork player

If you use BA rules, you toss the regular SM book out completely. No mixing and/or matching allowed. This means that you won't actually be using Shrike, just his model with the rules of a BA character.

Just pick a BA HQ unit to represent Shrike. If you can get a captain with a jump pack and claws, do it.

Really for BAs just use the shrike model as a captain with claws and a jump pack in that case. Its not really a game changing setup but its pretty economical and will do ok fighting most things.

Cheers,
~Volkan