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The Dwarf Titan Battlesuit is a massive runic construct. Shaped more like a dreadnaught, but the size of an Ork Stompa.

It must be controlled by a master engineer with a special master rune of engineering (50 points) enabling the engineer and construct to merge. Plus 2 more engineers for 30 more points. Total = 150

Battlesuit's stats and cost = 600
M WS BS S T W I A LD
6 6 5 8* 8 6 2 2 10

Special rules=

Titan = immune to KillingBlow, and poison
XXL Target = +2 to hit from ranged attacks, can not hide behind terrain or other large target, but will gain hard cover.
Terror
Immune to Psychology
Unbreakable
Reinforced Runic Gromril Armor = 1+ armor save and immune to fire.

Options =

"Don't leave home without one" = There is a special hold in the guts to house a war machine, can move and shoot. Cost as normal. Organ gun = 120 for example

Must choose 2;

the "Splitter" = The "Axe that split the Heavens" has str. 10, Killing blow plus large targets, d6 wounds, no armor save. = 150

Thunder Hammer = hits like a grudge thrower (template over target model) with str. 5(10), d6 wounds, no armor save. = 150

Shield of the Mountain = 4+ ward save and reroll armor saves. = 150

Here is what I came up with so far. I ran out of time, so I didn't smooth out the rough spots so to speak. I figure the average cost would be about 1200 points.

Make's sense, though terribly undercosted.

Tergor would probably lose in a 1 on 1 fight, though its impossible to fathom the outcome without playtesting.

Great start on this, I think it would be pretty awesome! I'm somewhat concerned about seeing all the T9 and T10 and wondering how non-Titans would deal with it.

With the Reinforced Armor giving immunity to fire, would that be applicable to the Lore of Metal's 1 and 6 spells? Since they both bypass armor saves, it would seem unfitting for it to prevent those from wounding, especially since fluff-wise the spell damage is caused by the armor itself.

I think the immunity to fire would protect against all attacks labeled as fire, so I guess it would cover spells 1 and 6 for metal if they are labeled as flaming attacks. I think this is why dwarf players put this on their own lords.

The problem with the high toughnesses is cannons. One cannon shot at str. 10 and d6 wounds and your legendary construct is out of the game with one lucky shot. Even at toughness 10 there is a 50% chance of wounding. I was originally thinking the legendary constructs and creatures should just be a little stronger and tougher than dragons or bloodthirsters, since seeing a bloodthirster and high king Thorgrim would be pretty epic. I think str. 8 and toughness 8 should be the highest, and then I thought about the cannon one shot. I guess it is just a chance you would have to take. I will edit the stats up top.

For the cost I figured--> 150 + 600 + 150 + 150 + war machine = 1050 plus a war machine and any extras (like engineer or runes)

I thought about that cannon dillemma for Tergor as well, and I figured the best way going about it was what I did: converting d6 wounds into d3 and d3 into 1 wound.

That prevents a 100 point model from taking out a 1000+ point model.

The other alternative is ward saves of course.

Yea, I really liked your idea about the wounds. Maybe that should be one of those "Titan" rules that also prevent killing blow.

It's looking good! I agree about the concern about T9/10 on these big fellas, and also- 600 points!? I know you need to add 150 for the engineer, but still. Orion is 600 points in the wood elf army book (basically) and he'd get squashed by this thing like a tiny, green little bug

I love the names of the weapons: "The Axe that split the Heavens" and "Shield of the Mountain". Especially that second one. Nice

I am under the impression that the cost is 600 for the suit + 150 for the engineers + a weapon arm at 150 points and + 150 for the other arm either shield or extra weapon that comes out to a base cost of 1050 points. When you add in the cost of a war machine say 120 for an organ gun you get a total of 1170 points. Do you guys still think that is undercosted? I really wanted to make him customizable like all the dwarf characters. I need to come up with some more weapon options.

I also forgot to add that you would be able to move and shoot like you can on a stegadon.

I don't think he's terribly undercosted once you add everything all together. As a Dark Elf player I forgot that cannons are just crazily powerful and you're right about the immunity to fire thing. That being said, any army that can't bring mass cannons are typically limited to S6 Bolt Throwers, magic and expensive strength-enhancing items.

That is true about other armies and what they can bring to bring down the legends, but they should all have legends of their own too. I think this is the problem with going so big. It reduces the other units to just fodder and bystanders.

Maybe we should come up with some standards and rules for the "legends". Like a maximum number in the stats or special abilities that are not too over the top or a minimum points cost or max. At what points level can you take a legend and how many? Maybe a giant killer bonus in victory points if you are able to bring one down. There are a lot of questions, maybe using apoclypse rules as a model could help, which I know nothing about.

You see, thats what I've been talking about. All we can do is theorycraft without a base set of rules that we can work with. Like I tried to do with the "Titan" special rule.

Of course, we know now that Forge World is doing exactly this.

Do we have any idea what those rules might be?

Nope. This one guy (its been posted with all the info and such, just search a bit) who's name I forget says that Forgeworld is going to do Imperial Armour, but Fantasy for WHFB. Along with a bunch of new models, etc.

A set of standards would be great... but you're right, for now it's just theories anyway. But they're fun theories

The Dwarf Titan Battle Armor:

Special Legendary Rules:

Titan = Indestructable d6 wounds become d3 wounds and d3 wounds become 1 wound. Immune to killing blow.

XL Target = Enemies get +2 when shooting at an XL Target. An XL Target cannot hide behind terrain or other large targets, however they do receive hard cover (-2 to hit), may attack over front rank.

Horror = One step above terror. So horror models cause fear to terror models and cause terror to fear models. Against normal models horror causes terror checks with a -2 to leadership.

The Stats for the Battle Armor =600

M_WS_BS_S_T_W_I_A_Ld
6__6__5__7_8_6__2_2_10

Special rules:

The Titan Battle Armor must be controlled by one master engineer plus 2 more engineers. The master engineer has the Master Rune of Engineering for 50 points. Total = 150

Unbreakable

Immune to Pyschology

Reinforced Runic Gromril Armor = 1+ armor save and +1 to toughness (already in stats)

Gut Buster Option =
"Don't leave home without one" = There is a special hold in the guts of the armor to hold a war machine, this war machine can be fired even if the battle armor moved in the movement phase. The cost is as normal for a war machine. Example cannon w' rune of forging, burning and an engineer = 145

Right and Left arm options, must take 2 (duh )

Splitter = the "Axe that split the Heavens" +2 to str (9), Killing Blow for large targets also, no armor save, and d6 wounds = 125

Thunder Hammer = Hits like a grudge thrower (template over target model) with str 5(10), d6 wounds for target model, no armor save = 125

Shield of the Mountain = 3+ ward save = 125

Shield of the Forge = reroll armor saves, adds +1 to AS, and immune to fire = 125

Fist of Flames = flame template at str5, d3 wounds, and -2 AS. Auto panic test for any unit suffering casualities. = 125

Organ Hand = yup, its an organ gun for a hand = 125

Twin-linked Bolt throwers (couldn't come up with a name for it) = One shot, two bolts. = 125 Throwers may have extra runes for additional cost.

All ranged weapon arms may be used in cc, but will not be able to be used for shooting afterwards. If titan is armed with two cc weapons or one weapon and one ranged weapon, it will gain +1 attacks.

Is this any better?

Again wish I could comment more on gameplay

What about Heaven Riever for the Axe that splits the Heavens

Rive =
1. To rend or tear apart.
2. To break into pieces, as by a blow; cleave or split asunder.
3. To break or distress (the spirit, for example).
[Middle English riven, from Old Norse rifa.]

fwiw Was thinking of calling my Blood Claws that but decided against it

NICE!

Also a name for the TL-Bolt Throwers could be Twin-Bows?

Dud I really like the 2nd inacarnation. This thing can be totaly haus if kited out right. perhaps the Dwarves could use a air ship to go along with this, how awsome would that be.

Airship transport dropping a Titan walker onto the battlefield?

I really love the second incarnation, but would ask that certain parts of its wording are cleaned up.

boogeyman wrote:Thunder Hammer = Hits like a grudge thrower (template over target model) with str 5(10), d6 wounds for target model, no armor save = 125

Is this thing a close combat weapon or a "thrown" weapon? Grudge Thrower is a Stone Launcher, right? The name Thunder Hammer makes me think of a close combat weapon. What is the S5(10) d6 wounds for target model? Is that S5 and d6 wounds for all models underneath, or is that S5 for all models, and the one under the hole gets S10 D6 wounds? This may be obvious for people familiar with stone throwers, but Dark Elves don't have those.

boogeyman wrote:All ranged weapon arms may be used in cc, but will not be able to be used for shooting afterwards.

Just to clarify, does this mean that it can shoot at the unit it is fighting with while in close combat? Does this mean it can shoot beyond the unit it is fighting with? If it chooses to do either, it no longer counts as having ranged weaponry after that combat is over?

Shield of the Forge looks amazing! Rerollable 0+ armor with immunity to fire? Wow!

If the Battle Armor must be controlled by a master engineer with MRoE and two lesser Engineers, why not include this in the overall cost similar to a War Hydra? I understand that's how you would break down the total price of 750, but it seems less confusing to state "This is the price, and this is what it includes" rather than "this is the price of this, this and this and you have to take all of them."

I think it would be better to have the battle suit having a 360 degree LOS (spins at waist), then say that the thunder hammer is basically a close combat weapon with a template attack.

So you line the template up more or less in line with the base, wherever you want.

The downside could be that if you use this weapon you cannot use any other combat weapon that turn. It can only turn so quickly

For the sake of balance, it would be better to set a minimum range for the onboard war machine, but say that as long as there is not a large target or building within that range it can fire over any unit in combat. 10" or something.

Incidently, unless you guys are planning for people to model 2 of the shield arms (left and right, presuming it is mounted on an arm), for magnetising, it would be easier to keep that to body mounted reinforcements. It would mean people could have both of the big weapons together, or either one and this.

Would it be too silly to have Whirlwind Blades? Basically two huge axes mounted onto a spinning arm. The ones you describe would be good against huge monsters and largish expensive units, but not so great against massive cheap hordes (who try to keep it fixed in place)

Thanks for the advice. Sorry, about my wording, I am not taking the time to put it together properly. I will work on it when I have the time. I never really thought about the modeling aspect of it so I'm not sure about the shields or weapons choices for a left or right arm. I guess I will have to think about that.

As for now, the thunder hammer is a close combat weapon that when it lands a hit, the template is placed on the target and takes a str10 hit causing d6 wounds, all the other models would only take a str5 hit and one wound.

The ranged weapons would act like hand weapons in close combat. The titan would just smash his arms into the enemy unit or monster and even superb dwarfen craftmanship would not stand up to a beating like that. So they would not be able to be fired after they are smashed in close combat.

I think the shield of the forge is actually kind of cheap. A regular dwarf can increase his AS by one, gain immunity to fire, and rerollable AS for 35 points.

Here is another try. I am still not sure how they would make all the arms, maybe just 2 straight arms and 2 bent arms and the weapons or shields would be attached with something other than hands. That would eliminate the right or left look.

The legendary Dwarf Titan Battle Armor, "Kazak Klad" or "Gromdal Barag" (I like Kazak Klad myself which means Battle Armor in Dwarf)

The legendary battle armor of the dwarfs started out as transportation for a war machine. Considered unfortunate by most normal dwarfs, the task was taken on by an aged master engineer, who must have been losing some of his sense. It started out simple enough, a wagon large enough to fit a war machine and its crew. However, the master thought that the crew should be protected, thus the wagon recieved armor plating. It continued to grow adding weapons on each side to drive off would be attackers, but the creation was becoming far too heavy to move which was defeating their initial purpose. In stepped an equally "touched" runelord and created runes of motion, protection, and binding into the construction. The masters, now thoroughly obsessed with their creation, started to build the construct into the likeness of an ironbreaker bigger even than a giant. The end product was an enormous replication of an ironbreaker with arms to protect, attack, or shoot, not to mention the initial hold for a war machine also. The newest obstacle was how to control it. The two insane (they must have been) masters came up with a plan to create a master rune that would bind the essence of the "driver" with the construct.

Kazak Klad = 750 points plus options

M_WS_BS_S_T_W_I_A_Ld
6__6__5__7_8_6__2_2_10

Special Rules = The armor must be controlled by a master engineer with the Master Rune of engineering accompanied by two more engineers. This cost is already added into the cost of the legendary construct. The construct is also has the unbreakable, immune to psychology, "Titan", "XL Target", "Horror", and Reinforced Armor special rules.

Reinforced Armor = 1+ armor save and a +1 to toughness that is already added into the stats.

"Gut Buster" option = A war machine may be purchased at its normal cost and transported in the guts of the construct. The size of the construct allows the crew to shoot the war machine even if it has moved during the movement phase.

Arm options (must take two)

Lightning Axe = This axe adds a +2 modifier to the constructs already considerable strength so it strikes at str9. The axe also confers the killing blow special rule including large targets. It causes d6 wounds with no armor saves allowed. = 125

Thunder Hammer = When this hammer lands, place the stone thrower template over the target model. This model takes a str10 hit for d6 wounds and no armor save. All other models completely or partially covered by the template are hit at str5 and are allowed armor saves. = 125

Shield of the Mountain = Grants the construct a 3+ ward save = 125

Shield of the Forge = Gives the construct the ability to reroll armor saves, adds an additional +1 to its armor save (for a total of 0+ AS), and gives it immunity to fire. = 125

Fist of Flames = The hand has been converted to shoot out flames. Place the flame template from the appropriate hand over the inteded targets. Models under the template take a str5 flaming hit. It causes d3 wounds with a -2 armor save modifier. Any units suffering casualities must take a panic test. = 125

Organ Hand = The hand has been fitted with an organ gun. Shots are handled just like an organ gun, please refer to page 40 in the Dwarf army book. = 125

Double Trouble = Two bolt throwers have been mounted to this arm. They are "twin-linked" so only one roll "to hit" is made and both bolts either hit or miss the target. The bolts are worked out separately for damage and act like any bolt thrower. Extra runes may be inscribed on to the bolt throwers at an additional cost, for example one bolt thrower can be flaming for 5 points. = 125

Any of the ranged weapon arms can be used as "hand weapons" in close combat. If they are used in close combat then even the superb dwarfen craftsmanship will not prevent the damage they will sustain, so they will no longer be able to shoot in future turns. If the construct is armed with 2 close combat weapon arms or any combination of weapon arms (not shield arms) it will receive the +1 attacks for fighting with two hand weapons. Due to the sheer size and mass of the construct it will cause impact hits on any turn that is charged. If equiped with a shield arm an additional hit will be added to roll for impact hits.

How about this one? Is it better and easier to understand?