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Well, I recently wrote a short blurb on Kroot dominated Tau armies. Here you go:

Kroot-Suiting and Other Kroot Tactics

A squad of 20 Kroot Carnivores and 12 Kroot Hounds, with a Shaper and Armour Saves, comes to exactly 277 points. This configuration ensures maximum survival while keeping the ability to infiltrate and outflank, the most important tactic a Kroot army has to offer. This configuration does cost 52 points more than the standard Shaper-less units many mechanized armies enjoy, but the purchase of the armour saves is fundamental in the tactics of an entirely Kroot army. A squad with armour saves will be used primarily for assault. However, while there are times when you should assault, there are also times when you should shoot instead.
Assault? Yes, there was no typo involved. While the Kroot army is taken on the Tau Empire Codex, it is also an assault oriented army, where the Troops choices actually take a larger part in the fighting than in many other Codices. This article intends to outline the less used tactics that are available to Counts-as armies.

When playing a Kroot list, the first thing that should come into the player’s mind during deployment is terrain. If there is a forest, jungle, or multiple pieces of such terrain, the primary step is to infiltrate at least one of your Kroot Carnivore squads into this terrain if possible. If you decided not to buy the Shaper and Armour for a particular squad, then that squad would be ideal for this role. This tactic cannot be overstressed enough. Marine equivalents are said to be the most annoying enemy to play against, and they only come in squads of 5, or 10 at the absolute maximum. A squad of 20-32 models with a 3+ cover save is invincible to almost everything but flamers, and can pack quite a punch. If there is an objective within 3” of this forest, then so much the better. Your opponent will likely spend the whole game trying to untie the objective, all for less than 300 points, and as low as 140 if you’re really cheap.

Forest terrain isn’t the only trick that Kroot can play. Many people marvel at the abilities of Boss Snikrot of Codex: Orks to utterly destroy exactly one unit on the field within 12 inches of any table edge. The problem with Snikrot is that he is nothing more than a one trick pony. After the enemy squad is demolished, the kommandos hang around and are cut down by light infantry fire, and rarely last the game. Well, the Kroot have their own version of this: Outflank. It may be a lot less powerful, and you certainly can’t predict where you’re going to come in, but the Kroot are almost as effective at the Snikrot Ambush as Snikrot himself, especially if they can consolidate into a forest after the enemy is eaten alive. The Orks only have one Boss Snikrot. The Kroot can have up to 5 Carnivore Squads creeping in behind enemy lines.

Well, the skeptic asks, the Kroot can stalk the enemy fairly well, but their guns are too weak to take out an enemy completely. They’ll just be cut down by enemy fire the next turn, or hacked to pieces in assault! There are two possible responses to this.
The first is the most obvious: assault the enemy first, and bring lots of Hounds! With an Initiative of 5, the Kroot Hounds will strike before almost any other enemy, with the exception of the Eldar. With 3 attacks each on the charge, 12 Kroot hounds can deal a lot of damage. While the enemy will probably still survive, the enemy will have fewer attacks, and when they finish rolling to wound, the wounds can be allocated to the Kroot Hounds, who have already done their duty. This is where the 6+ save you purchased for 52 points comes in handy, especially when facing horde armies like Tyranids or Orks. Instead of all of your Hounds piling up on the dusty ground, only 5 in 6 will suffer removal. While this number is insignificant when facing Space Marines, it will likely save you when sparring with Ork hordes. Then the Carnivores themselves join the battle, finishing off whatever the Hounds failed to kill, or in the worst case scenario, adding to the negative leadership modifier your opponent will have to take.

The second option is a little iffier. Your Kroot come charging onto the scene, and instead of rushing headlong into the ranks of the Imperium’s finest, they halt, fire their weapons, and then stand around in the enemy’s face, talking amongst themselves, and generally being a nuisance. If you can spread them out to block your enemy from getting at a more valuable unit, then so much the better! This presents your enemy with a dilemma: does he shoot them, assault them, or chase after more valuable assets on the board? If he fails to assault you, you can always try again next turn. Once again, a unit with no armour save is better suited to this role, as any enemy worth his salt would have brought guns with at least Armour Piercing 6, to which Kroot armour is useless, and 52 points would have been lost in vain.

Both options present a risk. The first option presents a danger to your livelihood when fighting special units such as Space Marine Command squads or Eldar Wraithguard. These special units will likely lose several members, but they will make mincemeat of your hounds and move on to the Carnivores, forcing you to take moral checks, which you will undoubtedly fail and fall back off the board. Assaulting works best, ironically, against Ork squads of 20 or less, or squads from any army where the statistics for the base unit do not require a cost of more than 30 points per model. The second option presents the risk that your enemy will utterly crush you, as you are out in the open with no cover saves. The shooting should be reserved for times when fighting a cheesy unit, in support of a squad that will assault, as a distraction to prevent your enemy from destroying a more valuable unit, or even part of the drone-like barrier described later.

Kroot Carnivore squads can also be used in a similar manner to Gun Drone squadrons. A 20+ model-long cover save can be quite useful, spanning over 40” at times. It is very easy to destroy Kroot used in this way, and it is not recommended to split them up into one long line. However, when spread out to avoid templates, they do take up a lot of space and can prevent enemies from reaching inner squads guarding objectives, such as the mandatory Fire Warrior squad. One thing to look out for is useless units like Gretchin charging them, in order to make them consolidate into combat and abandon their charges. Shoot such units before they can get to you or better yet, charge them first.

The organization of a Kroot army is crucial to get right, because of the general lack of heavy support among the bulk of the army’s troops. A Shas’El or Shas’O must be taken, as well as a squad of Fire Warriors. Beyond that, the rest of your composition is up to you, but it is necessary to take choices which will fill the roles of anti-tank more than anti-infantry. Missile Pods and Fusion Blasters are recommended for Battlesuits, and never take flamers. While flamers and burst cannons have their uses, the Kroot can handle infantry with ease, and little else. It is best if you allow them to fill their niche on the battlefield and compensate for the areas they lack with Crisis suits.

With the Elites choices taking over the role of anti-tank, the fast attack slots on the roster should be filled by Pathfinders. Missile Pods and Fusion Blasters are great, but are of little use if they continually miss, or if their targets are obscured. Also, the mandatory Devilfish can be used to transport your mandatory Fire Warrior squadron around the battlefield, stealing objectives late in the game and providing a bit of extra armament. Devilfish are also great for Tank Shocking enemy units to better gain an advantage over your opponent, as a lot of the tactics of a Kroot army include positioning and deployment.

Your Fire Warrior squad can be taken in several different ways. The equipment you give them will be fundamental to the way they should be played, and can work quite well in conjunction with your Kroot by taking out larger targets.

The first possible configuration of Fire Warriors is to max out the squad and give them pulse rifles. If they hop in your Pathfinders’ Devilfish, you can utilize the Fish of Fury tactic to great effect, especially as the opponent will gear his tactics to better handle an army of Kroot rather than Tau. This also makes them highly mobile, and you can move them to a central location to disembark, and then finish your shooting and preparing for assault before deciding where to unleash their fire.

Alternatively, you could make the squad very compact, and equipped with pulse carbines. The main advantage of this is that it is very cheap. Also, a Kroot Carnivore Squad is more than equipped to fight any kind of infantry, but cannot handle more than one squad at a time with good results. These extra pinning shots can hold the enemy at bay while your Kroot deal with a more imminent threat, and then come back to them later when your Carnivores are no longer occupied. Combined with markerlights’ negative morale modifier, pinning a squad to keep it out of the way is quite effective. A squad like this should always shoot immediately after the Pathfinders, to get a better idea of how many targets your Kroot have to deal with on any particular turn.

Heavy Support options are generally irrelevant. They are used in exactly the same way as in a more orthodox Tau army, and detailing the tactics is a waste of time. It might even be better to forgo the Heavy Support options altogether and instead bolster your Crisis suits to maximum effect.

Finally, the triumph of Kroot tactics, known as Kroot-Suiting. This tactic is based entirely on your HQ slots, and requires you to take two well equipped Shas’Os. Each will cost about 160 points, so it is better to reserve their use for larger games. This tactic is not obvious, and is scorned by some because of the beneficial aspects it takes away from the Tau army. However, in a Kroot army it fits well with the fluff and has many unforeseen benefits. The main idea of this bit of tactical genius is that the Shas’Os join the Kroot squads to provide more wounds, a higher leadership, a bonding knife, dynamic anti-horde protection and anti-tank capabilities, as well as more assault power and cheesy wound allocation. The downside is that the suits lose their assault movement, and lose a lot of their maneuverability. However, it is an excellent way to protect both investments of a pricey armoured Kroot squad and an above average commander. The Shas’O aids the effectiveness of the Kroot, and the Kroot provide a wound shield for the Shas’O. An important thing to note is that the Kroot will lose their ability to outflank if they are joined by the Shas’O directly at the start of the game. It may be wiser to start with both in reserve, and have the suit Deep Strike close a Kroot that outflanked this turn. The Shas’O can either fire at an enemy tank or, if the target of your Kroot is a special squadron, provide fire support before the Kroot charge. Once the Kroot consolidate after the melee, they form up in between the Shas’O and the enemy force. The next turn, the Shas’O joins the squad and they run rampant for the rest of the battle.

The suits may also be given drones without affecting their Independent Character status. This can add to their survivability in the turn they Deep Strike, and the bonding knife will make sure they don’t run off the board if a drone is lost. It’s a risky move, but the benefits outweigh the shortcomings. Once the suit has joined the Kroot, the drones are irrelevant and you should allocate wounds to them first, partially because they are more likely to survive and partially because you don’t need them. If they survive, good and well, as their guns will add a bit of pre-charge destruction in addition to that of the Shas’O.

During the following turns, the Shas’O may fire his fusion blaster at tanks, MCs, or ICs, or his horde-killing weapons to assist the Kroot he has joined. If target lock is purchased, the drones may fire at the Kroot’s target while the Shas’O tries to take down tanks and the entire unit assault afterwards. In assault, wounds can be allocated to the Shas’O and drones to help prevent a leadership test at the end of combat as they are more likely to survive. Also, the Shas’O has fairly good assault statistics, and an extra few attacks will always help, especially with his added strength. At the very end, the Kroot should have lost between 2 to 3 less than they would have otherwise, and inflicted 2 or 3 more wounds. This will help balance a leadership test if the Kroot lose the assault, and with the Shas’O’s leadership 10 the Kroot have a much higher chance of passing. Even if they do fail, if you keep one hound alive you will be unlikely to lose the Sweeping advance. If the Kroot win, the victory will be stronger and the enemy will be more likely to run.

In the event that most of the Kroot die off, the Shas’O can abandon his doomed colleagues and continue to fight for the Greater Good, taking what remains of his electric Frisbees with him.

I recommend taking the Shas’Os as follows:

Commander 152
- Shas’O
- Airbursting Fragmentation Projector
- Fusion Blaster
- Shield Generator
- Hard-wired Target Lock
- Hard-wired Drone Controller
- 2 Gun Drones

Commander 147
- Shas’O
- Cyclic Ion Blaster
- Fusion Blaster
- Shield Generator
- Hard-wired Target Lock
- Hard-wired Drone Controller
- 2 Gun Drones

To anyone who actually read that, kudos to you and I await your comments and responses with enthusiasm.
EDIT: Paragraph separation and clarity.

neat tactics and ideas

a use for kroot, might make them be taken.

it seems that kroot are an all or nothing unit and require numbers to be used effectivly.


you might consider boiling that down into an article for dakka here

Grey Templar wrote:neat tactics and ideas

a use for kroot, might make them be taken.

it seems that kroot are an all or nothing unit and require numbers to be used effectivly.


you might consider boiling that down into an article for dakka here

Thanks for that. I just might, though I'd check for more feedback first. It's something I've been playing around with for a while, but I'm sure there are scenarios I just haven't thought of yet, which need countering that a Kroot list can't provide.

Yikes, is the first thing I think I should say. I like the idea of Kroot suiting, but I think that army would die horribly against any kind of anti-infantry based army. Though it would be terribly funny if going against an all anti-mech army and seeing what happens when 4 plus Kroot squads outflank.

Ratbarf wrote:Yikes, is the first thing I think I should say. I like the idea of Kroot suiting, but I think that army would die horribly against any kind of anti-infantry based army. Though it would be terribly funny if going against an all anti-mech army and seeing what happens when 4 plus Kroot squads outflank.

The idea is that the suits pop the transports, and then the kroot rush in, taking a squad with them on the turn they outflank. In theory, it works quite well against infantry and struggles against mech, but in practice there's just too much which can send them packing, hence the ICs joining up for the leadership bonus and bonding knife.

Interesting ideas Nightwatch - you're actually making me want to play with my tau again which can only be a good thing!

A new breakthrough:

The Kroot squads cost 264, not 277. I'm not sure where I got the previous number.

And also:

Mech Kroot. 10 Kroot, 2 Krootox Riders. Just dump them in your Pathfinders' Devilfish and you've got a slightly weaker Fish of Fury coming up, but with 4 shots that pack a S7 AP4 punch! Not to mention they're scoring units, and can now move much faster!
Funnily, there's no rules on Krootox Riders in transports, so this is technically legal. Hopefully Games Workshop won't FAQ this.

If thats true then that is a double lol, can't you take more than 2 Krootox riders?

Ratbarf wrote:If thats true then that is a double lol, can't you take more than 2 Krootox riders?

You can take 3 maximum in a squad. Unfortunately, the Devilfish can transport only 12 models, and 10 Kroot are compulsory.

I like it. Unfortunately I think Leadership would present allot of problems. I usually run a PBS in my IG list, which would have lots of fun causing the giant kroot squads to run/go to ground.

yeah, but T'au don't have great Ld anyway.

i have a friend who runs his kroot around in his devilfish. he even modeled a great Fish with kroot all over it to represent "their" transport(he calls it the "kroot party bus" complete with Cooler and Keg )

This seems viable, I may try something similar at an upcoming tournament...

Nightwatch wrote:The idea is that the suits pop the transports, and then the kroot rush in, taking a squad with them on the turn they outflank. In theory, it works quite well against infantry and struggles against mech, but in practice there's just too much which can send them packing, hence the ICs joining up for the leadership bonus and bonding knife.

I can see arguments arising over wherher the Bonding Knife can be used to rally a unit of kroot.

The idea of the Krootox in the transport is good and yes you are allowed to run two because the Ox and rider count as a single model and GW never specified that they take up more than space in a transport nor indicated that were not allowed in the transports. It is true that in 4th ed that the kroot were unable to use the transports but 5th ed is supposed to take such thing into account.

Also, Yes, the krootox makes a kroot FoF attack a little more versatile.

@OP-Nice article

good tactics around here, but if you like the kroot so much, then why not play a kroot mercenary army? you can download the codex from the net, however, their are 2 versions, i strongly insist using the chapter improved one(IF you decide using this codex) the other one is a bigger one with more units and all, but i think the chapter improved version is a bit more legal the the fan made one imo

Scrazza wrote:good tactics around here, but if you like the kroot so much, then why not play a kroot mercenary army? you can download the codex from the net, however, their are 2 versions, i strongly insist using the chapter improved one(IF you decide using this codex) the other one is a bigger one with more units and all, but i think the chapter improved version is a bit more legal the the fan made one imo

I love Kroot. I'm making a Kroot mercenary army at the moment actually, but I'll be playing by the Tau codex. The fan one can't be used in tournaments, and there are parts of it which I dislike, although it's great overall. Also, the Chapter Approved one is no longer supported by GW. It can no longer be used in tournaments either. I still have a copy though, in the hopes that they change their minds again.

I'm incorporating my version of some Kroot merc's into my Tau Fan-dex.

focusedfire wrote:I'm incorporating my version of some Kroot merc's into my Tau Fan-dex.

Ah yes, I've heard you've been working on one somewhere or other. Link? Or are you not displaying it for public criticism yet?

Off-Topic

Nightwatch wrote:

focusedfire wrote:I'm incorporating my version of some Kroot merc's into my Tau Fan-dex.

Ah yes, I've heard you've been working on one somewhere or other. Link? Or are you not displaying it for public criticism yet?

Here ya go: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/290724.page

I've posted the Armoury so far. I am revising the drones rules currently and they should be up soon.

There is a sneak peek of the Kroot posted.

And Please, Critique away. I will state that the Wargear and Units are mostly set, but extra eyes to spot rules conflicts is always good. Also if you see an easily exploitable rule let me know.

Will, also be taking points suggestions on equipment costs once the drones are finished and posted.

On-Topic: Please continue the thread. I am enjoying it very much. One of the things I've enjoyed about 5th ed has been the increased effectiveness of the kroot through the increased cover benefits.

Hmm

I'm tempted

How reliable is this list? Say, against these types of armies:

Mech MEQ: The kroot have nothing but numbers vs MEQs and can't even destroy their tanks.
Leafblower: Even worse, no anti-tank on all of your troops. Sure a few krootox, but they'd only be good for popping light transports and can't infilitrate, which seems to me to be the best part about this army.

You've got to go a whole turn (1) with only 1 squad of firewarriors on the board!
What would a 1500pts example torne list look like with this in mind?

lunarman wrote:Hmm

I'm tempted

How reliable is this list? Say, against these types of armies:

Mech MEQ: The kroot have nothing but numbers vs MEQs and can't even destroy their tanks.
Leafblower: Even worse, no anti-tank on all of your troops. Sure a few krootox, but they'd only be good for popping light transports and can't infilitrate, which seems to me to be the best part about this army.

You've got to go a whole turn (1) with only 1 squad of firewarriors on the board!
What would a 1500pts example torne list look like with this in mind?

Marines themselves are no problem, unless you're up against honour guard or something similar which doesn't like dying. Still, the hounds will tear through them pretty quick, before they get a chance to attack.

Mechanized armies are probably the toughest opponent to face. I think I mentioned that the Elites choices should be filled to the brim with fusion blaster/missile pod goodness? It's true, the Kroot have no feasible way to damage tanks, monstrous creatures, etc. When playing against a mech army, there are two possible options:
1) Leave everything in reserve as usual, and hope that enough of your suits arrive on the second turn to pop open the transports so that your Kroot can maul the passengers.
2) Deploy your suits with the fire warriors and hope you get first turn. It's risky, but if you're lucky you'll pop a few transports early and have something for your Kroot to take care of early.

The Heavy support options are your best bet, always. When I made my original post, I left them out, specifying that they'd be run the same way they would in a regular Tau army. However, in this scenario their survival is the most important thing to ensure, as they're all you have to crack your opponents transports.

Funnily, my kroot list works best against Orks. I've never played against Dark Eldar either, but I'd be willing to give it a shot.

EDIT: As soon as I can, I'll fish out my list and post it here. It's not terribly strong, but it has a chance against most non-mech armies.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

focusedfire wrote:Off-Topic

Nightwatch wrote:

focusedfire wrote:I'm incorporating my version of some Kroot merc's into my Tau Fan-dex.

Ah yes, I've heard you've been working on one somewhere or other. Link? Or are you not displaying it for public criticism yet?

Here ya go: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/290724.page

I've posted the Armoury so far. I am revising the drones rules currently and they should be up soon.

There is a sneak peek of the Kroot posted.

And Please, Critique away. I will state that the Wargear and Units are mostly set, but extra eyes to spot rules conflicts is always good. Also if you see an easily exploitable rule let me know.

Will, also be taking points suggestions on equipment costs once the drones are finished and posted.

On-Topic: Please continue the thread. I am enjoying it very much. One of the things I've enjoyed about 5th ed has been the increased effectiveness of the kroot through the increased cover benefits.

Thank you.

Cover saves, My Opinion:

Cover saves will make you almost invincible, and providing you know how to position your models for maximum firing potential, you will excel. Kroot work much better in cover than Orks, as Orks have to charge out of it to be effective. Kroot have almost the same guns and the ability to shoot straight, so make the most of it. Not to mention that the opponent will be giving you initiative 10 on the turn he assaults you, if he chooses to do so.

Priorities:

When playing with a Kroot list, it is suggested that you assess your priorities in the following manner, from most dangerous to least dangerous:

1) Tanks, transports, monstrous creatures

2) Squads with flamers

3)Overpowered close combat squads

4)Everything else

This priority matters more for your crisis suits than for your Kroot, as your Kroot will outflank onto the battlefield at random, and will utterly mutilate the closest infantry, bike, jump infantry, or cavalry squad. The reasons:

1)Your Carnivores do not possess the capabilities to harm most tanks or Monstrous creatures, especially if they have a toughness higher than 7. Tanks and MCs will crush you.

2)Just as diamonds are a girl’s best friend, so too are flamers a Kroot’s worst enemy. You can’t take your armour save or your cover save against these, and they will get at least 5 guys each. Watch out for burna squads.

3)Designated close combat squads with initiative 5 or higher will be a problem, especially with high toughness or strength. Your Kroot can chop through pretty much anything else, but power armoured characters with their retinues are a no-no.

4)Kill it.

And the list that I would run at 1500 points:

Kroot List @ 1500 points

HQ

Commander 94
- Shas’el
- Fusion Blaster
- Missile Pods
- Positional Relay
- Hard-wired Multi-tracker

Troops

Fire Warrior Team 60
- 6 Shas’la
- Pulse Carbines

Kroot Carnivore Squad 172
- 10 Kroot
- 2 Krootox Riders
- Shaper
- Armour (11)

Kroot Carnivore Squad 245
- 20 Kroot
- 12 Kroot Hounds
- Shaper
- Armour (12)

Kroot Carnivore Squad 245
- 20 Kroot
- 12 Kroot Hounds
- Shaper
- Armour (12)


Elites

Crisis Team 108
2 Shas’ui
2 Fusion Blasters
2 Missile Pods
Target Lock
Multi-tracker

Crisis Team 108
2 Shas’ui
2 Fusion Blasters
2 Missile Pods
Target Lock
Multi-tracker

Crisis Team 55
1 Shas’ui
Twin-linked Fusion Blaster
Missile Pods


Fast Attack

Pathfinder Team 191
- 8 Shas’la
- Devilfish
- Disruption Pod
- 1 Seeker Missile

Pathfinder Team 201
- 8 Shas’la
- Devilfish
- Disruption Pod
- 2 Seeker Missiles

Heavy Support

Broadside Team 80
- 1 Shas’ui
- Advanced Stabilization System


Total: 1500

Good gravy. Please tell me this isn't serious.

actually my group had a similer army played at a tournament a while back.


he had 2 minimum sized groups of fire warriors with devilfish, three 12 strong kroot squads as his troops.

Kroot rode in 3 Devilfish as a agressive mechanized attack force(one Fish was from a pathfinder squad)


the guy took 3rd with this so called "kroot Party bus" tactic.

MorbidlyObeseMonkey wrote:Good gravy. Please tell me this isn't serious.

I'm super serious.



Are you just too amazed that my little army is crushingly good?

The Positional Relay on the Shas'El is mainly for when I play against mech. He starts the game as safe in cover as he possibly can, protected by the devilfish, pathfinders, and the broadside.
He then calls in my TL Fusion Blaster Crisis suit, who blasts open one transport. Following that turn, I ignore the positional relay and roll for reserves as normal. When the Kroot come in they murder the squad that used to be in the transport, and my other suits pop the enemy's other transports for the rest of my Kroot to massacre.

So have you actually tried this in a real game, or is it all just theory? I don't think you've played your army against anyone with a working knowledge of basic 40k if you think your army is "crushingly good". Sorry to be blunt but I don't want a noob reading this to go out and buy an army like yours and then find out that it sucks.

You will get owned by any mech army. You have fusion blasters, but you'll never get to use them except on the one suicide suit (thanks for the free killpoint). The reason is that they are equipped with missile pods which are long-range weapons so you'll want to be as far away from the enemy as possible when you're firing them. So the Meltas are just wasted hardpoints and points. Your anti-tank is just a few missile pods, one suicide suit, one unprotected broadside and three seekers. That isn't enough.

Your chances against infantry are no better. Since your suits are built (poorly) to fight vehicles, all your have are your troops to fight infantry. You have a lot of Kroot which sounds nice in theory but in reality they are weak at HTH and they will get swept by combat resolution.

What do you intend to do against:
- Fate-crusher
- Mech IG
- Seer Council
- Nob Bikers
- Dual Lash

Those are just five examples. I could just say "any competitive army" but think about these five for now. The answer is that you lose big time because your list has no answer to the above armies.

Again, sorry for being harsh but I'd prefer that than have someone spend hundreds of dollars and then ragequit the hobby because they keep getting owned.

MorbidlyObeseMonkey wrote:So have you actually tried this in a real game, or is it all just theory? I don't think you've played your army against anyone with a working knowledge of basic 40k if you think your army is "crushingly good". Sorry to be blunt but I don't want a noob reading this to go out and buy an army like yours and then find out that it sucks.

You will get owned by any mech army. You have fusion blasters, but you'll never get to use them except on the one suicide suit (thanks for the free killpoint). The reason is that they are equipped with missile pods which are long-range weapons so you'll want to be as far away from the enemy as possible when you're firing them. So the Meltas are just wasted hardpoints and points. Your anti-tank is just a few missile pods, one suicide suit, one unprotected broadside and three seekers. That isn't enough.

Your chances against infantry are no better. Since your suits are built (poorly) to fight vehicles, all your have are your troops to fight infantry. You have a lot of Kroot which sounds nice in theory but in reality they are weak at HTH and they will get swept by combat resolution.

What do you intend to do against:
- Fate-crusher
- Mech IG
- Seer Council
- Nob Bikers
- Dual Lash

Those are just five examples. I could just say "any competitive army" but think about these five for now. The answer is that you lose big time because your list has no answer to the above armies.

Again, sorry for being harsh but I'd prefer that than have someone spend hundreds of dollars and then ragequit the hobby because they keep getting owned.

I was joking about the crushingly good. I agree, it isn't a strong army. However, it is fairly competent.

First, I'll address your concern about infantry. Kroot squads are a lot better in hand to hand combat than you think, especially when you take them with Kroot hounds and Outflank them. A squad of 20 Kroot and 12 Hounds will easily defeat any standard troop unit in any army. The one exception to this is Ork Boyz in squads of greater than 25 models. The Hounds will likely go first due to their high initiative, and massacre at least half of the enemy. Against Boyz, for example, the hounds will have 36 attacks on the charge, 1 will hit, 9 will wound, and it is likely that the unit will take at least 7 casualties. This leaves the Orks with a possible 3-5 models if they were taken in a trukk, or up to 23 if they were taken as a footslogging horde. I usually see 20 as a common number, so let's assume 20 for now.

There are now 13 Orks left, one being a Nob with bosspole and PK as customary. Now the 20 Kroot get their 60 attacks, 30 of which hit, 15 wound, and 12-13 Orks are removed. This leaves the lone nob to swing his power claw and take a maximum of three casualties. He'll be taking a leadership at 2, and being swept by initiative 5 versus 3 if he fails.

Space Marines? No problem.

Guard? Ditto.

Terminators?Don't make me laugh.

Now I will refute your argument against my anti-tank. The lone suicide fusion suit WILL pop open a transport. With 16 pathfinders on the board and a twin-linked gun, you have to be having very bad luck indeed not to kill something.
There is only one broadside, it is true. However, this particular suit will start the game in cover, hopefully out of line of sight, but if not it doesn't matter too much. The pathfinders' markerlights will negate any cover save his designated target will get, as well as boost his ballistic skill.

As for my anti-tank being all missile pods, look again. All my crisis suits have fusion blasters. That's right, I actually intend to use them as such. The idea is that on average, on the 3rd turn onwards I will get one Kroot squad and one crisis squad coming in per turn. Will it work out that way? Probably not, but no one can ever know when their reserves are going to arrive for sure.
This means that hopefully, by the time my second wave of reserves arrives, there will be no enemy transports left on the board, or at least minimal numbers. If the enemy chooses to target my suits, he leaves his entire armourless force at the mercy of the Kroot. If her targets the Kroot, my crisis suits run havoc and destroy the rest of his heavy support.

Well, you might think that the enemy will destroy the army entirely, but that really isn't the case. Most mechanized armies armies use their points on transports, not killer units.

Actually, would you like to post a sample list you would run in an all-comers 1500 point tournament? I realize my ideas aren't all perfect, and it would be fun to bounce ideas off each other and see what we would do to counter each other's lists.

This is the latest incarnation of my 1500 point competitive Tau Empire list.

HQ
[98] Shas’el w/ TL Missile Pod, Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, HW Target Lock, HW Multi-Tracker

Elites
[106] 2 Crisis Suits w/ TL Missile Pod, Targeting Array
[106] 2 Crisis Suits w/ TL Missile Pod, Targeting Array
[106] 2 Crisis Suits w/ TL Missile Pod, Targeting Array

Troops
[60] 6 Fire Warriors
[112] 10 Kroot + 7 Hounds
[100] 10 Kroot + 5 Hounds

Fast Attack
[226] 8 Pathfinders w/ Team Leader + Devilfish w/ Smart Missile System, Multi-Tracker, Disruption Pod, Targeting Array

Heavy Support
[185] Hammerhead w/ Railgun, Smart Missile System, Multi-Tracker, Disruption Pod, Target Lock, Blacksun Filter
[185] Hammerhead w/ Railgun, Smart Missile System, Multi-Tracker, Disruption Pod, Target Lock, Blacksun Filter
[200] 2 Broadsides w/ Targeting Array; Team Leader w/ HW Target Lock, 2 Shield Drones

Total: 1499 Points

So let's look at my list's firepower. My anti-tank consists of:
- 7 Missile Pods
- 4 Railguns

Compared to yours:
- 5 Missile Pods
- 1 Railgun
- 3 Seeker Missiles
- 1 Fusion Blaster
- 2 Krootox (but they'll be in the devilfish if I understand correctly)

I am not counting the fusion blasters on the missile pod suits because you should never use them. The reason behind this is that if you are close enough to shoot them, you are too close and they're going to die next turn.

Now, at first glance, our lists' anti-tank firepower seems somewhat even. It's not though, for two reasons. The first is that your seeker missiles and your fusion blaster will only get one shot per game. Seekers are a one use weapon and the suicide suit will be killed in the turn following its drop. The second reason is that my firepower is built with optimal efficiency in mind. My 7 Missile Pods will average 12.44 hits per turn, while your 5 will average 5.33. The comparison between Railgun firepower isn't even close. The end result is that my list will pop open enemy vehicles and start killing the infantry inside much quicker than yours.

Okay so moving on to anti-infantry firepower. Here's what I've got:
- 2 Railgun subs
- 5 Smart Missile Systems
- 1 Burst Cannon
- AFP

Here's yours:
- 1 Smart Missile System
- 2 Burst Cannons
- 10 Pulse Carbines

I think the difference here is even more obvious than the anti-mech. Once again keep in mind that all of my weapons are shooting at BS4 or better, whereas all of yours are shooting at BS3. Next, most of my anti-infantry weapons have 24 or more inches of range. This is key with Tau. So all in all your anti-infantry is severely lacking and you have no answer to the common "deathstar" units (fate-crusher, nob bikers, seer council).

Now you might be thinking that your large amount of kroot will give you an advantage in the anti-infantry department. Well, in theory, yes. But then you have to consider how unwieldy 30+ models can be. When you pack them into combat, not all of them are going to be within attack range because there's so many. Then, if you win combat, you're packed up nicely for flamers. Even if you use your consolidation roll to spread out, they can be tank shocked back into place and then flamed.

Kroot shouldn't be used for killing things, they are called a "bubblewrap" unit. What I do is infiltrate them forward, lining them up the full 2" apart across the entire table. Then, my opponent can send a CC unit to slaughter them, but after that I can shoot whatever killed the kroot. Alternatively, they can be used to stop enemy outflankers or deepstrikers in the tactics I explain below.

The Positional Relay on the Shas'El is mainly for when I play against mech. He starts the game as safe in cover as he possibly can, protected by the devilfish, pathfinders, and the broadside.

Don't expect any of this to be alive after two to three turns of shooting.

He then calls in my TL Fusion Blaster Crisis suit, who blasts open one transport. Following that turn, I ignore the positional relay and roll for reserves as normal. When the Kroot come in they murder the squad that used to be in the transport, and my other suits pop the enemy's other transports for the rest of my Kroot to massacre.

Now I will explain why this tactic won't work against anyone who knows what they're doing. First off, it's statistically quite unlikely that your suicide suit will kill a transport. Your have to bring him in first (16% failure chance). Then you have to drop him in (I explain below how dangerous this is). Then you have to penetrate the vehicle and get potentially get past its smoke launcher save. And even if you do all that, you still only have a 50/50 chance of wrecking the transport.

However, all this is meaningless because a good player will simply wrap infantry around his vehicles such that the only way to drop your suit is out of range, or you can drop it within range of a vehicle and if you scatter (67% of the time), you'll mishap.

Now, your tactic of outflanking kroot. Sounds good in theory, but in reality your opponent can either line up infantry on the side table edge, or simply deploy in the middle, both of which will completely ruin your plan. So no, your kroot aren't going to be killing any infantry because outflanking is a gimmick tactic that can be very easily shut down.

Lastly, I think I should emphasize that reserving a large amount of your army is a bad idea. You should deploy all of your army (barring troops sometimes) for maximum firepower and efficiency. Despite what the fluff says, we don't win by mounting surprise attacks or anything like that. We win by lining up and blasting our foe off the face of the planet.

Wow, I have written a novel here, I hope this helps anyone reading it.

Yeah, an army full of kroot isn't that competetive.

Nightwatch: you seem to think that outflanking always produces very good results. That is not certainly so, you see kroot do not have fleet so the enemy can simply deploy/move outside of charge range. If you go all out with outflanking, there may even be a wall of tanks which you cannot penetrate. For example, a genestealer unit outflanking is MUCH better. But both of these units fall into the same category in one thing: they don't have assault grenades. What you thought about massacring an enemy unit on the charge is clearly wrong if there is even one piece of area terrain on the flank. I've twice beat a tyranid army by sitting in forests, weakening the enemy's mass by shooting and then taking out most of them when they inevitably charge.

It's true that a fully upgraded kroot unit kills 20 boyz on the charge pretty handily. But wait, the loss of the ork player isn't that great. Compare the point costs; 20 boyz with upgraded nob costs 160 points while those kroot cost 253. It's true that the kroot simply destroy the ork unit but next turn another mob of boyz charge and snuff out the kroot. One should, of course, never think about the points costs in the game to see if a unit paid itself back but when directly computing unit's strength and pure killyness there should at least be a unit worth as many points on the other side.

Don't even get me started on mech, you'll probably lose.


All this does not mean in any way that kroot armies totally suck. I have had success with them. 2 wins against new tyranids, 1 against orks, 1 against space wolves, 1 draw against IG and one loss against chaos. Looks pretty, doesn't it? The truth is that 3/4 of the wins were against inexperienced players. Kroot work well against such opponents, for example my whole army lost 4-5 wounds against the ork player. The chaos match was a different case: there were 2 rhinos, 2 squads of freaking plague marines and a greater daemon among other things. Note that all games were only 1000 points.

I know there are differences between the kroot mercenaries fandex and tau empire but since the basic kroot carnivores are the same (except I get those wonderful eviscerators) I think my thoughts are not totally wrong.

Zaephyr wrote:Yeah, an army full of kroot isn't that competetive.

Nightwatch: you seem to think that outflanking always produces very good results. That is not certainly so, you see kroot do not have fleet so the enemy can simply deploy/move outside of charge range. If you go all out with outflanking, there may even be a wall of tanks which you cannot penetrate. For example, a genestealer unit outflanking is MUCH better. But both of these units fall into the same category in one thing: they don't have assault grenades. What you thought about massacring an enemy unit on the charge is clearly wrong if there is even one piece of area terrain on the flank. I've twice beat a tyranid army by sitting in forests, weakening the enemy's mass by shooting and then taking out most of them when they inevitably charge.

It's true that a fully upgraded kroot unit kills 20 boyz on the charge pretty handily. But wait, the loss of the ork player isn't that great. Compare the point costs; 20 boyz with upgraded nob costs 160 points while those kroot cost 253. It's true that the kroot simply destroy the ork unit but next turn another mob of boyz charge and snuff out the kroot. One should, of course, never think about the points costs in the game to see if a unit paid itself back but when directly computing unit's strength and pure killyness there should at least be a unit worth as many points on the other side.

Don't even get me started on mech, you'll probably lose.


All this does not mean in any way that kroot armies totally suck. I have had success with them. 2 wins against new tyranids, 1 against orks, 1 against space wolves, 1 draw against IG and one loss against chaos. Looks pretty, doesn't it? The truth is that 3/4 of the wins were against inexperienced players. Kroot work well against such opponents, for example my whole army lost 4-5 wounds against the ork player. The chaos match was a different case: there were 2 rhinos, 2 squads of freaking plague marines and a greater daemon among other things. Note that all games were only 1000 points.

I know there are differences between the kroot mercenaries fandex and tau empire but since the basic kroot carnivores are the same (except I get those wonderful eviscerators) I think my thoughts are not totally wrong.

It looks like I'm outnumbered.

Well, swallowing my pride, I admit: Kroot aren't as good as I've been saying.
This idea to have a Kroot-based army was based entirely on fluff, I've been trying to make it work and hold together against other good armies.
And, when I tried it out, it worked perfectly against 4th-edition armies, armies based mainly on footsloggin' it across the board.
I've already said that Kroot have mech as their worst enemy.

However, when it all boils down, they're pretty much the same as any other army, except using troops(Carnivores) as your massed-infantry killers instead of the tanks and heavy weapons that most people prefer.

The obvious disadvantage: very little anti-tank, anti-character capabilities.
The advantage: way more models than your opponent. Only an IG foot regiment would outnumber me, and I'll be able to kill those easily. The models I field are slightly better than orks, and can be taken in larger squads. Unfortunately, they have a larger cost.

Will the army by winning tournaments? Probably not. But it is very fluffy, and lots of fun to play!

Nightwatch wrote:Will the army by winning tournaments? Probably not. But it is very fluffy, and lots of fun to play!

You are absolutely right! Kroot have long been my favourite race along with eldar. They are fragile and challenging but their ability to infiltrate brings about many tactics. Can't be too serious when playing them.