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Hey Everyone,

I never really thought of this before, until I recently watched a Youtube video from a popular group of GW Wargamers.
At my shop most people assume you get a Killpoint for any Dedicated Transports (so 1 Trukk full of Boyz is 2 Kp's not just 1).

But now that I think about it, if it doesn't take up a force organization slot and it's part of the unit (and can only be taken by units), then it would also make sense that it DOES NOT count as a Kill Point.

This would help orks out quite a bit with the double kill points for a Trukk full o' Boyz.

What do you guys think about this? Is there any ruling on it anywhere?

It is its own unit and therefore worth a KP. Just because it is 'unlocked' by the unit buying it, does not make it part of that unit. It can move independently. This is asked here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/217907.page#375505

Yes, they count as KPs.

Black Templar Emperors Champion doesn't take up a Force Org slot, neither do IG Techpriests or Priests, neither do SM Command squads. Are they worth a KP. Yes. Force Org slot has NOTHING to do with it. Unit is what matters. If it can operate on it's own as a separate unit, it's a KP.

I do not believe they count as a KP.I have never played a game where they have.In games played,the kill point has gone to the unit or units carried,never the DT.

Pedro Kantor wrote:I do not believe they count as a KP.I have never played a game where they have.In games played,the kill point has gone to the unit or units carried,never the DT.

Main rulebook: All units count as kill points.

DT = Unit. Therefore DT = 1 kill point.

That's how it should be played. If you house rule that DT are not kill points, well you've house ruled DT not to be kill points. But other people don't follow a specific person's or group's house rules. If you go to any store or tournament, they are a KP because the rules say they are.

The rules very clearly state dedicated transports are killpoints.

Are they a "unit"?
Then they are worth 1kp.

can it move independently? yes. can it shoot independently? yes. so it's an independent unit and counts as a kill point. the same is true (unfortunately) for tau gun drones that disattach from a devilfish, etc. the ONLY benefit you get from buying a dedicated transport is that it does not take up a force organization slot. i lost a tournament last year because my opponent and the judge didn't realize that transports counted as a KP.

Force org slot does not equal unit.

There are lots of force org slots that may be taken up by multiple units.

See:

Any unit and a dedicated transport (2 units, 1 FOC slot)
IG infantry platoons (up to 18 units, 1 slot)
Purchasing a Farseer "unlocks" a seer council, that does not take up a FOC slot.
Etc.

id be fine with playing transports dont count as kill points, but dont think it will count as contesting an objective when you pull it out of hiding and park on the objective last turn...

its written pretty clearly that they are KPs...

krusty wrote:id be fine with playing transports dont count as kill points, but dont think it will count as contesting an objective when you pull it out of hiding and park on the objective last turn...

its written pretty clearly that they are KPs...

Actually they do contest objectives as well. They are a unit and units can contest.

One of the reasons Eldar Wave serpents are so nasty. Nothing like thinking you have the game in the bag and then having them turbo boost forward last turn to contest your objectives.

I think he was saying that if the player wants to claim they are not a KP, then they shouldn't play they can contest too, a sort of 'cake and eat it' argument.

In normal missions they do most certainly maintain the ability to contest.

willydstyle wrote:Force org slot does not equal unit.

There are lots of force org slots that may be taken up by multiple units.

See:

Any unit and a dedicated transport (2 units, 1 FOC slot)
IG infantry platoons (up to 18 units, 1 slot)
Purchasing a Farseer "unlocks" a seer council, that does not take up a FOC slot.
Etc.

absolutely correct. are you under the impression that i said it does? just in case, i didn't; i just said that the ONLY BENEFIT a dedicated transport has over a nondedicated one is that it doesn't take a force org slot.

So how does that equate into a dedicated transport not being worth a KP?

Is a jetbike seer council not worth a KP?

How about a unit of lesser daemons?

These are units that do not take up a FOC slot.

Oh, I see where the confusion lies, you assume that I was responding to your post. This is not the case, I was responding to the OPs idea that no FOC slot means no KP.

This is something i will definately take up at my next club meet,if only to put the question out there and get some feedback/debate going with my fellow players.

There is no question, or room for debate, if you play dedicated transports as not yielding kps you're violating exceedingly clear RAW and basically cheating and screwing certain armies while massively benefiting others.

It really is quite clear. They clearly fit the definition of a "unit" in the beginning of the rulebook. And the kill point rules clearly state that any destroyed unit yields a kill point.

As noted, there are quite a number of units out there which don't take up Force Org slots, including chaos space marines' lesser daemons, gun drones from tau devilfish, and eldar warlock squads. They're still worth KP.

It's widely acknowledged that dedicated transports count towards kill points, but I completely disagree that it is clear in the rulebook. If I didn't play in such an active area for 40K, it would be a lingering question.

- Blackbone

On what basis would you conclude that they don't? I don't see any implication in the rulebook that they wouldn't.

Blackbone wrote:It's widely acknowledged that dedicated transports count towards kill points, but I completely disagree that it is clear in the rulebook. If I didn't play in such an active area for 40K, it would be a lingering question.

- Blackbone

I assume you would assume they werent a unit then?

In which case none of the rules of 40k would apply to them...

This line, page 87, main rules:
Sometimes a single choice on the force organisation chart will allow you to select more than one unit.

Nuff said?

Blackbone wrote:It's widely acknowledged that dedicated transports count towards kill points, but I completely disagree that it is clear in the rulebook. If I didn't play in such an active area for 40K, it would be a lingering question.

- Blackbone

It is pretty clear I think... DT are units. Units are kill points.

The rulebook is pretty clear for standard games every unit is a KP.

Some gaming groups like to take the previous years Ard
boyz approach that dedicated transports are not a kill point. These same groups convienently usually do not adopt the same formats other kp mechanisms such as 2kp per elite/fast/heavy and 3 kp per hq.

If they are preparing for Ard boyz and using the ard boyz scoring method(which changes in some scenarios) then dedicated transports might not be worth a kill point, but everything else might be worth more. In one of the missions each troop unit was worth 3 KP.


To be honest both systems have their facepalm moments, and neither fully accounts for the worth of units when taken by itself. The only merit to the KP system is the balance it provides to the other two main missions which are objective based. A 800+ pt nob squad being the same 1 KP as a 20pt DH inquisitor?
And the reverse in ard boyz style: what? the 750 pts for three dedicated transport land raiders arnt worth any kill points?

Gotta love our Gee-Dub.

In the BA, not having dedicated transports count as a KP would kill the game, as Land Raiders are dedicated transports.