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FOR THIS POLL, PLEASE ANSWER HOW YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY THE GAME, NOT NECESSARILY WHAT THE RULES AS WRITTEN (RAW) SAY.

Feel free to post how and why you voted, but please DO NOT ENGAGE OTHERS IN DISCUSSIONS/ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK THE RULES SAY. Please create a separate thread if you feel the urge to have this kind of discussion.



The Imperial Guard Astropath's 'Telepathic Relay' rule says (IG Codex, pg 31): "Whilst the Astropath is alive, you add 1 to any of your reserve rolls."

The Tyranid Hive Tyrant's 'Hive Commander' rule says (Tyranid Codex, pg 34): "...whilst the Hive Tyrant is alive you add +1 to your reserve rolls."

The Eldar Autarch's 'Master Strategist' rule says (Eldar Codex, pg 29): "While the Autarch is alive, you may choose to add 1 to your rolls for reserves, regardless of whether he is in play or not (a roll of 1 always counts as a failure)."




QUESTION: Do you play that a Hive Tyrant's 'Hive Commander' ability and an IG Astropath's 'Telepathic Relay' apply to a player's reserve rolls even when these models themselves are in reserve?



OPTION A. I play they do not, as models in Reserves are out of play and therefore do not affect gameplay unless they have a special rule that specifies that they do (such as with the Eldar Autarch).


OPTION B. I play that they do, as models in Reserve are still clearly 'alive' and therefore the ability specifies that it applies even when the model is in Reserve.


OPTION C. Something else entirely: reply exactly what it is below.

I voted for B.

This is because I feel that the Hive Commander was receiving his premonitions or whatever prior to battle and planned accordingly.

Likewise, the Astropath is never away from the Company Commander's side, advising him.

How we roll the dice against reserves with them is simply a way of showing how they affected the overall battle. I feel like they actually fulfilled their roles before the battle even started.

Edit: I'd like to add that, considering how their abilities are explained in the codex, that it does not even make sense to stop their ability after their death.

Totally arbitrary, and I am not advocating everybody should do the same. However I played that the astropath has to be on the table, while the Hive Tyrant not.

Telepathic relay seems to suggest to me that the Astropath is communicating with reserves to have them arrive to where he is (ie. he must be on the table)

While Hive Commander probably suggests that the assault was planned with superior cunning and Tyranids invade in quick succession.

Even to me the inconsistency in the rules seem strange but thats how I would suggest we play in friendly games. In tournaments I dont decide anyway, so I let the Judges decide.

Option B for all the obvious reasons (that I've posted on here many times before). So far the voting seems to imply INAT went very much the wrong way with your ruling

Option B. The wording "while the Astropath is alive" was the clincher for me.

Voted B. This is the way my shop plays it and it seems to make the most sense.

I went with B, because of the fact that they're not dead, just off table. Additionally, I thought one of our major tenants is that we don't assume precedent from wording in another completely separate codex. Is this wrong?

So basically you get all of the bonus and no disadvantage of having the ability of losing the model.

I voted A. Eldar rule specifically states, while other two do not.

Voted B, on the grounds that special rules affecting reserve rolls should work on your army while the unit with the rule is in reserve. Descent of Angels, Hive Commander, Alien Cunning, Astopaths, Autarchs, etc should all function from reserve.

I think the rules imply A, but would rather see it played B.

Option B as much as I wish Autarch had a special bonus to them.

The rules do not state that a army wide bonus does not apply if the model is not in play, there for the limiters of the rule have been met with the model being alive.

BlueDagger wrote:Option B as much as I wish Autarch had a special bonus to them.

They do, the option to apply or not apply the bonus.

Option B just for the fact that it says "While alive" not while on the field or anything like that and units arn't technically dead if they are in reserves so why wouldn't it impact the game?

I vote A.

The Eldar Autarch's rule would not state this explicitly if it were not a variation from the assumed effect of this ability.

That said, B is really more reasonable.

Voted B. Just because they are not on the table does not mean these commanders would not be back at HQ issuing orders until they arrive.

B. Alive means "not yet dead".

I voted B since it makes more sense to me that way, though I wish it had been more clear.

What really boggles me is the people who play Hive Commander works in reserve and Astropath doesn't. They're worded the same, why the double standard?

Xca|iber wrote:I voted B since it makes more sense to me that way, though I wish it had been more clear.

What really boggles me is the people who play Hive Commander works in reserve and Astropath doesn't. They're worded the same, why the double standard?

Jealousy of the IG Maybe?

I voted for A myself.

Voted B. "Alive" is pretty clear. For a model to not be alive it has to be dead which it clearly is not when in reserve.

So will this poll have any influence at all regarding the long awaited GW Tyranid FAQ?

"B"

Those voting "A" are most likely wannabe leafblower players who will do/say anything to keep other armies from coming up with a 'counter' build against them, thus removing them from top-tier win-button no-thought-required armies.

*note* nothing personal. I hate leafblower, not people who want to win games. closely fought battles are more fun x10 imo *end note*

B

Eldar was written for a different edition and over time GW changes the way they word things. Within the Tyranid codex there is another similar rule for the Lictor which says he must be on the table. Why leave this wording off Hive Commander when it is in the same codex?

Models removed as casualties are not necessarily dead, and therefore may still be thought of as alive. This definition would therefore allow an equally valid argument that models removed as casualties still add their +1 to reserves.

Therefore the only other definition I can come up for "alive" is "in play", which negates the possibility of the model being "alive" while in reserve.

Therefore, I voted option A.

yakface wrote:Feel free to post how and why you voted, but please DO NOT ENGAGE OTHERS IN DISCUSSIONS/ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK THE RULES SAY. Please create a separate thread if you feel the urge to have this kind of discussion.

Lukus83 wrote:Voted B. "Alive" is pretty clear. For a model to not be alive it has to be dead which it clearly is not when in reserve.

So will this poll have any influence at all regarding the long awaited GW Tyranid FAQ?

Not unless someone from GW is lurking on the forums reading these threads.


However this poll can be a useful tool to get the ruling reversed in the INAT FAQ, as based on the overwhelming numbers presented here it definitely looks like this is one we've gotten way wrong from the perspective of how most people play the game.

I usually play as B,

This also goes for regeneration on mawlocs that have popped under the ground.

A - my opinion is the they cannot influence a battle until they are directly involved in it

i beleive 'alive' is intended as on the table - but i could be wrong

on the other hand what would be the use of an ability if they couldnt benifit from it themselves to expeediate their arrival

i think my opinion is as hung as Brittish politics

Catachan_Devil wrote:i beleive 'alive' is intended as on the table - but i could be wrong

I agree with you, 'alive' should equal 'on the table'. The problem I have with that is that Deathleaper has a very similar ability that works whilst 'on the table'.

If these are supposed to be the same then that's some appalling rules writing (possible). On the other hand, maybe the wider interpretation of 'alive' is intended, hence the differentiation (also possible). If only GW would employ a technical editor to sort this stuff (or, in fact, any editor at all...)

another thing i think (in my own opinion) is that the status of a model is not truely known until the model is on the table

if a model is in reserve and never arrives it counts as destroyed (they may have got lost or in fact been destroyed on the way to the battle) - so really no-one truely knows if they are infact alive until they reach the battle

If alive = on the table then Reserves are automatically dead on arrival. In short, nothing defines alive beyond 'isn't dead yet'.

I voted B.