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JediRaptor wrote:VC's Blood Knights....75 bucks for 5 guys???

It's now 90 bucks for 5. 100 if you buy the blisters.

Blood Knight's are $90 now.

Any LoTR models.

Polonius wrote:Oh, this one is easy. Gotta be Ogryn. $20 a peice, or $60 for a minimum unit, $200 for a max. No ranged shooting, no power weapons, low initiative, vulnerable to S8 attacks, and while they have a decent leadership they get no bonuses or re-rolls. One of the few units in the game that isn't good even at what it's best at (fighting lightly armored units without S8 attacks).

While I'll agree Ogryns are poor, I will also point out you're wrong in several areas. In order:

1. The $200 price tag depends entirely on your definition of 'max'. $200 is one possibility, but you can get a maxed unit for $155 (6 Ogryns and a Chimera), or $159 (5 Ogryns and Chimera and two Commissars).
2. They do have a ranged attack. It's crap, but they do have it.
3. They can take power weapons, same as any other unit (save vehicles, obviously) in the current IG Codex, thanks to the Independent Commissars doctrine. Not ideal, obviously, but one to three Powerfists can add a punch (hah hah) to the Ogryn unit.
4. And again, thanks to doctrines, they can get Leadership bonuses.

Finally, of course, if you just convert Ogre Kingdom Bulls, you can get a maxed out unit for less than $100.

Look, I'm gonna go to the matt for Ogryns as the worst price to effectiveness ration. Here's why:

1) Wraithguard are at least good at two things: they are truly durable with T6, a 3+ save, and access to fortune. They also have a gun that's a one shot wonder, but it's actually pretty potent.

2) Ogryn just suck. No matter how you argue it, they suck. They can add indenpendent commissars, which cost 75pts to add 2 S6 power fist swings, and are on a T3 two wound Independent character. No thanks. Doctrines can't really add much in the way of leadership bonuses. the only real way to beef them up is with an HSO with attached Commissar to gain LD10.

3) Ogryn can be converted out of Ogre Bulls, but that's not the question.

Sisters Repentia. No armor, low toughness, I1 attacks

40k: Ogryns

Warmachine: Risen

Flames of War: Trucks (any type)

Tau Manta.

£895.

12.5 kilos without the crew and passengers.

It's so large you can't put it in a game because it wouldn't fit on the table.

You can strap it to your back and go hang-gliding though. Definate bonus there.

BYE

Polonius wrote:Ogryn. $20 a peice

Seconded. Useless in-game, but ridiculously expensive to buy.

H.B.M.C. wrote:You can strap it to your back and go hang-gliding though. Definate bonus there.

BYE

heheheh....I wanna see that on youtube

You can strap it to your back and go hang-gliding though. Definate bonus there.

That's just good humor.

Kroot hounds. A six point model that costs six dollars.

BloodofOrks wrote:Kroot hounds. A six point model that costs six dollars.

They are good in combat though. Initiative 5 if I remember correctly.

Tyranid gargoyles. I'd have to auction off my grandparents before I could afford a decent sized squad. Although in-game they're great, the metal models are too expensive, and really gak to put together :(

I don't think they do them now, but Skavenslaves. Really, 4 models for £6 I think they were when I last saw them. And they were hopeless!! You'd need a unit of at least 40 to last more than a hand to hand round, then they run away and get charged down. And even a unit of that size would only cost about 100 points at 2nd Ed Warhammer. Yup, 2.5 points a figure. For a 100 point unit you'd have to lay out £60, the then equivalent of FOUR boxes of regular skaven plastics.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Chaos Spawn.

I have no idea how much they cost, but they're so useless that it's irrelevant.

Are they, same model that underperforms in 40K can do very nicely on a square base.

I think the category needs a standard model and a Forgeworld category seperate to that. No matter how bad some 40k/fantasy units get at least they dont get the Forgeworld ridiculous pricetags, stupidly high points costs and underpowered rules (outside of Apocalypse).

Polonius wrote:Look, I'm gonna go to the matt for Ogryns as the worst price to effectiveness ration. Here's why:

2) Ogryn just suck. No matter how you argue it, they suck. They can add indenpendent commissars, which cost 75pts to add 2 S6 power fist swings, and are on a T3 two wound Independent character. No thanks. Doctrines can't really add much in the way of leadership bonuses. the only real way to beef them up is with an HSO with attached Commissar to gain LD10.

Read my post. I actually agree with you. It was the first thing I said. Ogryns do suck.

However, your argument was full of inaccuracies. As is your second one quoted above. You can affect Ogryns' leadership with doctrines. You can beef their leadership without use of an HSO (there are several 'real' ways to do so). You can make them immune to morale for a short time. All of this is expensive and rather pointless but it can be done.

So again, while I agree with your point, your argument would have more strength if you could get at least a few facts right. That's all I'm saying.

Polonius wrote:3) Ogryn can be converted out of Ogre Bulls, but that's not the question.

Actually, that's exactly the question. Aren't we comparing the in-game effectiveness against real world cost? Although, to be fair, to carry the argument through, you could play with rocks and keep the real world cost down.

Orlanth wrote:

Orkeosaurus wrote:Chaos Spawn.

I have no idea how much they cost, but they're so useless that it's irrelevant.

Are they, same model that underperforms in 40K can do very nicely on a square base.

Ha! I already changed my answer to Aun'Va on page 1. He's a 250 point liability, and costs 35$. At least ogryns can't make all your guardsmen run off the field.

They are really expensive though; I had no idea they were that much. I always liked the ogre bull conversions more anyway.

Has anyone mentioned the Penitent Engine?

BYE

Skaven when Plague monks AND Stormvermin were all metal. Horde unit anyone? I mean, the Stormvermin still are, but the plastic monks were a lifesaver. Haven't read second page, but Savage Orcs, if no one else has mentioned it, are too bloody expensive. Good unit though.

I think Fire prisms are stupidly overpriced, especially with the metal hike. I mean, they're not as good as battlecannons, and they're otherwise just a lascannon on a big fragile platform. Useful in some contexts, but expensive compared to LRT, for example, which can have THREE lascannons and a better pie-cannon.

i was gunna say wraithguard as well but HMBC beat me to it.
as to whoever said terminators..... WTF are you talking about? yea id agree that 50 bucks for them is a bit steep, but thats because GW KNOWS anyone who plays a game with a decently p-lanned squad of termies is gunna just destroy things. termies can take a SERIOUS but kicking and deal out tons of death from both shooting AND assault phases. AND they deepstrike ALWAYS. how is that a waste of money and points?

Agree so far but how about chaos dwarf hobgoblins?

back when you could get them they were literally more than $1 per point. AND a hoard unit.

And my buddy refused to use normal gobbos.

I think we're missing a serious contender here:

Dark Eldar scourges, especially the dark lance model.

The box set of 5 goes for $40, and has 2 splinter cannons and 2 dark lances. That alone would be 170 points on the table. Of course, it would be slowed to mix those two weapon systems, so you need another box set to make a functional unit. The dark lance is double slowed, because it's a heavy weapon on a unit with a jet pack.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

The Tau space pope also comes to mind...and the vespid.

Stu-Rat wrote:

Polonius wrote:Look, I'm gonna go to the matt for Ogryns as the worst price to effectiveness ration. Here's why:

2) Ogryn just suck. No matter how you argue it, they suck. They can add indenpendent commissars, which cost 75pts to add 2 S6 power fist swings, and are on a T3 two wound Independent character. No thanks. Doctrines can't really add much in the way of leadership bonuses. the only real way to beef them up is with an HSO with attached Commissar to gain LD10.

Read my post. I actually agree with you. It was the first thing I said. Ogryns do suck.

However, your argument was full of inaccuracies. As is your second one quoted above. You can affect Ogryns' leadership with doctrines. You can beef their leadership without use of an HSO (there are several 'real' ways to do so). You can make them immune to morale for a short time. All of this is expensive and rather pointless but it can be done.

So again, while I agree with your point, your argument would have more strength if you could get at least a few facts right. That's all I'm saying.

Polonius wrote:3) Ogryn can be converted out of Ogre Bulls, but that's not the question.

Actually, that's exactly the question. Aren't we comparing the in-game effectiveness against real world cost? Although, to be fair, to carry the argument through, you could play with rocks and keep the real world cost down.

Umm, ok.

@KK, at that rate, why not go over Frateris Militia?

Deff dread. Due to the fact that one can be made for about $10 with the new AOBR cheapness.

What about SM Landspeeders? Your basic kit is £18 and a Tornado is £25. Perhaps there's some trick to using them, but they shot to pieces very quickly, an expensive way to build an army IMO.

My definition of worst is one that never sees the table for whatever reason, yet I own. I used to use CSM Dreads pre-5th, so they have had at least some use. I haven't used my Land Raider in 6-7 years other than an Apocolypse game. Therefore:

Land Raider = worst model for the money

Faux Pas wrote:Deff dread. Due to the fact that one can be made for about $10 with the new AOBR cheapness.

Ditto. $50 for a model that seldom does anything. It's BS 2, and a walker, which means that it usually spends two - three turns walking across the table missing everything in sight. Since orks don't have a ton of high armor vehicles, the AV12 on this model draws ALL the high power anti-tank on most take all comers lists, while leaving the model at home makes all those las-cannons into very expensive, single shot, heavy bolters. I've got one, fully painted, since it's a gorgeous model, but I've fielded it twice. It's sitting on shelve, on display, instead of in my army transport for exactly this reason.