Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

LotD have a 3+ invul.

I like them even more then

DaveL wrote:

Why bother with krak missiles on FW? I'd assume you'd be better off boltering him until he runs away.

bolters wound on 6+ and krak wounds on 2+ more dice to roll means more failed saves.

Corennus wrote:Rhinos can take 12 models.

oh dear.

LotD have a 3+ inv...

Against any list containing fateweaver: kill him ASAP. And when null zone and fateweavers rule is in effect its easier to let them cancel eachother out, because you cant reroll a reroll, and then it gets confusing.

mercer wrote:

DaveL wrote:
Why bother with krak missiles on FW? I'd assume you'd be better off boltering him until he runs away.

bolters wound on 6+ and krak wounds on 2+ more dice to roll means more failed saves.

Actually, against Fateweaver, bolters wound on 5+. Also, generally you have a lot more bolters to shoot than you have krak missiles. As a daemon player myself, I tend to grin when somebody shoots heavy weapons at my regular Lord of Change... they may hit and wound, but I still get my 3++ as if it were just a lasgun that got lucky, and that heavy weapon shot cost my opponent a fair number of points. (Don't get me wrong, if you brought missile launchers and there isn't a better target for them, go ahead... but their low AP is wasted against Fateweaver. Or most other daemons, for that matter. Frag missiles against squads are usually the way to go against daemons, especially if the squad is tightly packed such as after DS and a poor run roll.)

Oh, if you have a rerollable failed inv and you cast Null Zone on them, they either cancel each other out(meaning the demon just rolls his save as normal, no rerolls) or you reroll once and stick with the result. It's writen in the rulebook that any dice can only ever be rerolled once.

Second, I still don't see where you will put those HQs...personally, I'd put the 5-man Tacticals in Razorbacks and Sternguards into Rhinos, perhaps upping their number with the points you spared from the tact squads and putting the HQs each in their own Rhino.

Then you can put whatever gun you want on Razorbacks too, because your opponent will think the Rhinos with Sternguard are a much much greater threat(and they're right) so they'll leave your Razorbacks alone while dealing with Rhinos, at which point you make them pay for that.

ok well i've changed the list AGAIN
this is its final incarnation:


HQ
Valeric Justinius (Counts as Pedro Kantor)
AP 4 Storm Bolter & Powerfist
175

Gaius Calcifer
Librarian
Power Armour w/ Bolt Pistol & Force Sword
Null Zone & Avenger
100

ELITES
Sternguard (10 man)
x 2 Combi-Flamer
X 5 Combi-Melta
DT: Rhino & HK
330

Sternguard Squad (10 man)
x 1 Combi-Flamer
X 5 Combi-Melta
DT: Rhino & HK
325

TROOPS
Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Combi-Melta
Melta Gun
Missile Launcher
Rhino w/ HK
230

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Combi-Melta
Melta Gun
Missile Launcher
Rhino w/ HK
230


HEAVY SUPPORT
Predator
Lascannon Sponsons
120

Predator
Lascannon Sponsons
120

Predator
Lascannon Sponsons
120


1750

Dude...you're still one slot short of putting those HQs in the Rhinos...unless I'm missing something basic...

Yeah. Vanilla rhinos have 12 man capacity

*sigh* I have no idea where you got that from, but people repeatedly told you they can carry 10 models max. Read their codex entry again and better this time. It's easily solved, though, just make your Sternguards 9 or 8-man, not 10.

Corennus wrote:Well I now have my sternguard kitted out to be versatile. with special ammo and combi-weapons capable of taking out anything.

Hellfire rounds wounding on a 2+ definately hurt.

Especially with Nul Zone in effect.

Although Null Zone and Kairos is weird cause:

Kairos takes 3 wounds.

Rolls to save. Fails two saves.

Has to reroll the passed save (Null Zone)

rerolls the failed saves (his own power).

End result usually: NO WOUNDS!

You can't reroll a dice more than once... So it would be like this:
Kairos takes 3 wounds... Rolls to save and fails two saves... Then he can reroll those saves that he failed (2 of them) because of his power, and successful one because of null zone... And that means that he rerolls all the saves... So only thing that happens is that null zone has neutralized his power...

it's ok. forget that.

I'm combat squadding my tacticals. missile launchers go as heavy weapons combat squad, and pedro and librarian go with melta squad each

DaveL wrote:

mercer wrote:

DaveL wrote:
Why bother with krak missiles on FW? I'd assume you'd be better off boltering him until he runs away.

bolters wound on 6+ and krak wounds on 2+ more dice to roll means more failed saves.

Actually, against Fateweaver, bolters wound on 5+. Also, generally you have a lot more bolters to shoot than you have krak missiles. As a daemon player myself, I tend to grin when somebody shoots heavy weapons at my regular Lord of Change... they may hit and wound, but I still get my 3++ as if it were just a lasgun that got lucky, and that heavy weapon shot cost my opponent a fair number of points. (Don't get me wrong, if you brought missile launchers and there isn't a better target for them, go ahead... but their low AP is wasted against Fateweaver. Or most other daemons, for that matter. Frag missiles against squads are usually the way to go against daemons, especially if the squad is tightly packed such as after DS and a poor run roll.)

Oh I thought he was T6, T5 then? It's not the AP against Daemons as AP doesn't matter, it's the high strength which easily wounds instead.

Corennus wrote:Yeah. Vanilla rhinos have 12 man capacity

oh my f****** god!!!! Why do you insist on repeating this after being told 28 times that they have TEN man capacity!!! TEN MAN!!!

Look at my post after Jabbido.

wasnt there a ruling that Null Zone negated fateweavers reroll saves rule? pretty sure theres something about it in the FAQ or something.

There is no ruling. It's just this:

Null zone makes him reroll saves he makes.
Fateweaver makes him reroll saves he does not.

So when he rolls saves, he rolls them, and no matter the result, reroll them and take that result.

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:There is no ruling. It's just this:

Null zone makes him reroll saves he makes.
Fateweaver makes him reroll saves he does not.

So when he rolls saves, he rolls them, and no matter the result, reroll them and take that result.

Ah the way i was told to play it to save time was to just roll it once, since the first roll doesnt even matter.

Ya, but tell that to some tournie players.

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:Ya, but tell that to some tournie players.

I was actually told to play it like that at a tourney, I play a fatecrusher list. If you think about it, theres really no point in rolling for it the first time if everything will be rerolled again.

I know. But some people really care. Why? You guess is as good as mine.

Only way to make it work is this:

Kairos gets hit by say 10 hellfire rounds.
He takes 4 wounds
He rolls his invulnerable save
fails 2 of them.
Rerolls using his ability, passes both.

Null Zone comes into effect and the result of THAT reroll is the deciding one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm wondering if putting my librarian with the sternguard is an idea...... or keeping him with tacticals so more of the board is affected by Null Zone....

No, in this case, it'd work like this:

Kairos gets hit by say 10 hellfire rounds.
He takes 4 wounds
He rolls his invulnerable save
Fails 2 of them, passes 2 of them
Rerolls passed saves because of Null Zone and rerolls failed saves because of his ablity

End result: He rerolls every dice, regardless of whether saved or unsaved, but only ONCE, as per the rulebook.

^ +10 to this guy

You need firepower but don't waste too many points on lascannons and the like. The demons get an invul save....so pump in shots that don't matter if they make the save or not. As assault cannon will do fine...heavy bolters, autocannons...stuff like that.

I have just one question... How the heck did he get just 4 wounds from 10 hellfire shots

^+ 9000

OK
Getting off topic here so my updated updated list IS:

HQ
Arvel Decius (Counts as Pedro Kantor)
175

Gaius Calcifer (Librarian)
Null Zone & The Avenger
100

ELITES

Sternguard Squad (10 man)
x 2 Combi-Flamer
x 4 Combi-Melta
DT: Rhino w/ HK
325

Sternguard Squad (10 man)
x 2 Combi-Flamer
x 4 Combi-Melta
DT: Rhino w/ HK
325

TROOPS

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Combi-Melta
Melta Gun
Missile Launcher
DT: Rhino w/ HK
230

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Combi-Melta
Melta Gun
Missile Launcher
DT: Rhino w/ HK
230

HEAVY SUPPORT

Predator
Lascannon Sponsons
120

Predator
Lascannon Sponsons
120

Predator
Lascannon Sponsons
120


Combat Squadded Tactical Squad with librarian goes near enough centre of the army so that most of enemy will be affected by Null Zone.
Sternguard deploy (if possible) to left and right flanks.
Predators deploy either equally spaced out or all in a tank huddle.
Missile Launchers deploy on raised terrain so they can fire across the board.
Pedro goes tank hunting and objective hugging.