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Kanluwen wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

He also mentioned that he would love to produce an Ad Mech Codex ... his take on the concept was "Vampire Counts in space". In other words Necromancers and zombies...

Do not want!

Yeah, I get the feeling "Necromancers and zombies" isn't the right way to describe it.

Think of it more like the Adeptus Mechanicus members would be able to buff up the servitors' abilities in combat, with the Skittari acting independently for the most part.

That makes alot more sense and "feels right".

Aye, the VC's comment would not mean undead, he's thinking one really powerful guy runs the show, and everything else in the army is his minion. In some respects the Sevitors and tech objects could be seen as 'Undead' to a degree in the sense they are likely to be mindless or totally subserviant, hence why he said VC in space.

Sounds interesting to me.


Referring to the OP, nice to see the Eldar comments, with my wife blissfully putting her new Dark Eldar together the past couple of days, it is making me consider Craftworld again, would be nice to have them facing off on the table.

Interesting. I really hope they do go with a flyer expansion. I just hope they do a better job than with spearhead.

Yeah, I was just going to say; do we really think a Flyer expansion would be any more successful than the Spearhead?

Does anyone even play ridiculous tank battles in space?

Now the Battle Missions book, on the other hand, I thought was well done and we still use it (especially with tournaments seemingly obsessed with non-standard missions).

No real need for a Fliers expansion with 6th Edition due out in 2012 (going purely on the 4 year cycle...not looking to create a rumour!).

While the expansion itself might be considered useless, the slew of extra plastics that will be released to boost sales will be most welcome. Plastic Thunderbolt anyone? Heyooo!

So the majority of the codex will have models by June? Awesome!

Really glad to hear there will be a venom model, because I wasn't looking forward to trying to make one myself. I hope there will be new haemonculi blisters with this next release, too.

For some reason though I'm not all that excited about the razorwing and voidraven getting models. From the start I was pretty dead set on filling my HS with ravagers, but if they look good enough I might buy them anyway just because...not because I want to run around the room with them and make airplane noises or anything.

kenshin620 wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:Hm, 4 new plastic kits. If we are to assume one is the Venom, where does that leave us? Wracks, Scourges, and maybe a 3-box of Grotesques?

Do we have to include the 2 flyers also?

Venom seems all but guaranteed, but I'm betting Wracks, Talos/Cronos, and the Razorwing/Voidraven will be the other kits. I think it would be nice to have plastic Scourges, but its isn't as much as a necessity as it is for the others; I'd assume they'll be interestingly posed metals. Grotesques I think will unfortunately get a similar treatment as ogryn and just be a number of metal models. I'm also betting we'll see updated Haemonculi as blisters at some point, released alongside wracks.

Not convinced about the Venom because of the WD article.

The Heamonculi stuff is the next wave according to that, and the context used when referring to the Venom, was 'when we do it' so very much future. Though to be fair, WD articles are wrapped up 3 months in advance, so it's possible I suppose. Just not likely, taking that article at face value.

Mr Mystery wrote:Not convinced about the Venom because of the WD article.

The Heamonculi stuff is the next wave according to that, and the context used when referring to the Venom, was 'when we do it' so very much future. Though to be fair, WD articles are wrapped up 3 months in advance, so it's possible I suppose. Just not likely, taking that article at face value.

I thought the same thing - but (as you point out) that WD article was written 3 months ago, and Jes would have been very tight-lipped about future releases at that stage. The length of time between 'if' and 'when' with GW kits is shortening all the time, it seems. The Venom is an important vehicle - more so than the Razorwing and Voidraven. I'm expecting to see a lot Venom spam army lists, and I reckon it will sell well. And, unlike the Razorwing and Voidraven, the artwork for the Venom depicts it quite clearly (as a sort of customised Vyper), which suggests that they have the kit designed. I reckon it will be part of the 3rd wave. Like Sidstyler I'm not too bothered about the 2 flyers; I think the current rules struggle to deal with flyers properly, and was planning to populate my HS slot with Ravagers.

I don't see Grotesques or Wracks being done in plastic yet. Wracks in particular appear to be a fairly marginal unit (maybe I'm wrong, but apart from the modelling angle they don't cry out to be used). I'd love to see plastic Grotesques, but large, multi-pose plastic figures require quite sophisticated design (think plastic Ogres), and I think they might wait.

My bets for those rumoured 4 plastic kits are:

Venom (see above)
Scourges (because they will want them to be very dynamic, and plastic is better suited to this)
Talos/Cronos (the entries for both suggest that a customisable plastic kit is planned)
Razorwing/Voidraven (I'm assuming they will want the same kit to cover both options)

Why do people think the Talos/Cronos is one kit when the artwork looks nothing alike?

One's a flying corpion with no legs and two arms.

The other is a six-legged bug thing with vent-spines coming out its back.

Perhaps same chassis? Idk. They could still get metal treatment

Scottywan82 wrote:Why do people think the Talos/Cronos is one kit when the artwork looks nothing alike?

One's a flying corpion with no legs and two arms.

The other is a six-legged bug thing with vent-spines coming out its back.

Where do we even have artwork for the Cronos? I don't believe that little big thing is the Cronos. It's used a couple times throughout the codex, and I believe is nothing more than DE-esque doodles, the skeleton with the mask.

I think they could easily be one model - both are said to have insect-like appearances in the codex, and it even states that their appearance is not set. So I see no reason for them to be more than one set.

The curious thing about the Razorwing/Voidraven is that I've often heard people say they look like Craftworld Eldar flyers from Forgeworld. So since GW's CAD designers are getting so good with vehicles, does that mean Craftworld flyers will be coming in the Eldar codex, as it would require minimal redesigns to turn one into the other?

JOHIRA wrote:The curious thing about the Razorwing/Voidraven is that I've often heard people say they look like Craftworld Eldar flyers from Forgeworld. So since GW's CAD designers are getting so good with vehicles, does that mean Craftworld flyers will be coming in the Eldar codex, as it would require minimal redesigns to turn one into the other?

I'd say definitely. It's a chance to sell more big kits for nearly zero work.

AlexHolker wrote:

JOHIRA wrote:The curious thing about the Razorwing/Voidraven is that I've often heard people say they look like Craftworld Eldar flyers from Forgeworld. So since GW's CAD designers are getting so good with vehicles, does that mean Craftworld flyers will be coming in the Eldar codex, as it would require minimal redesigns to turn one into the other?

I'd say definitely. It's a chance to sell more big kits for nearly zero work.

It wouldn't surprise me to find the Craftworld equivalents in the next Codex.

Because they are a shared MC stat wise, and not making them a multi kit seems contra to the current multipurpose kits where possible.

Creating eldar flyers is eminently possible, and would boost sales somewhat as they are looooovely vehicles.....

Kamsm8 wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:Why do people think the Talos/Cronos is one kit when the artwork looks nothing alike?

One's a flying scorpion with no legs and two arms.

The other is a six-legged bug thing with vent-spines coming out its back.

Where do we even have artwork for the Cronos? I don't believe that little big thing is the Cronos. It's used a couple times throughout the codex, and I believe is nothing more than DE-esque doodles, the skeleton with the mask.

I think they could easily be one model - both are said to have insect-like appearances in the codex, and it even states that their appearance is not set. So I see no reason for them to be more than one set.

Really, you don't believe it? Despite it being called in the fluff a biomechanical insect or spined parasite? That seems a pretty good description of the small picture...

1.) Whatever is said in WD, in the video Jes makes it clear that a future release will be Wych AND Haemunculi (with most wych units already released and Venom missing with wych passengers). So believe Jes when he says that a Venom will come soon. Would not make sense to leave that one out anyway (yes, I know that sometimes GW leaves out important units).
2.) The fluff text about Talos makes it clear that all Engines of Pain vary massively in design. So no 2 are completely alike. Only a multipart plastic kit can do justice to that description. BTW ruleswise both are monstrous creatures, none a skimmer.
3.) If you take each DE doodle for the unit's artwork, have a look at the "artwork" of the Voidraven Bomber or Lady Malys

Scottywan82 wrote:Really, you don't believe it? Despite it being called in the fluff a biomechanical insect or spined parasite? That seems a pretty good description of the small picture...

None is in a postion to be dogmatic about this, so settle down. There are indications that they'd do a single kit with parts for both. The description and characertistics of both units are similar - they're both insect-like (the Talos entry shows it, the Cronos entry says it), the Talos still floats (its fluff says it 'drifts along' using 'anti-gravitic motors') and it looks as though the Cronos does as well (both have the 'move through cover' special rule, which would be explained by the fact that they float) and it's easy to see how their specialised weapons as described in the codex would fit onto the same basic shape. We know that GW like to do 2-in-1 kits, as demonstrated by the Lootas/Burnas, Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace, Crusader/Redeemer etc. - it makes more sense than doing entirely different kits of such specialised units for a non-Marine army. And they have clearly adopted a policy of doing larger models in plastic - to do both in metal at this stage with a view to replacing them later makes little sense (although I am aware that we saw new metal Juggernauts replaced by plastic versions quite quickly).

This is all just conjecture, of course; my point is that you're no more in the know than anyone else.

making larger apocolypse style kits (Stompa and Baneblade) in plastic is now more possible.

aw.... GWS, you guys are killing me.

One one hand, large kits can be imposing and awesome.

On the other hand, they contribute mightily to scale creep, and obviously cost substantially more.

Wow, I really want to see these models.

Scottywan82 wrote:Why do people think the Talos/Cronos is one kit when the artwork looks nothing alike?

One's a flying corpion with no legs and two arms.

The other is a six-legged bug thing with vent-spines coming out its back.

I don't think that second picture is the Cronos. The Talos is clearly shown in the artwork, the bug thing on the Cronos' page is just an illumination, much like the random collection of bits towards the top of the Talo's page.

The reason everyone thinks its the same model is simply because early rumors and GW people had said there was a Talos variant in the codex. That is obviously what they were talking about. The current Talos being a decent sized metal model on a snapable plastic flight stand is exactly the sort of metal model GW is trying to eliminate and replace with plastic models. To be justify the rate of return for a dreadnought sized model in plastic means a $43 price tag, with two regular infantry sized sprues. Yeah, GW could pack it all of the 6 unique upgrade bits and a whole pile of variations of standard components, but if we do assume they are the same basic model, the Cronos could be made with only the addition of one manditory and two optional upgrade parts. Based on the codex's picture I think the basic Talos without upgrades could fit on a single sprue and would leave the second sprue for all the variations and option bits. If you think GW would waste all that excess space on a single unit, its kinda silly when you'd need so few parts.

Ouze wrote:On the other hand, they contribute mightily to scale creep...

They do? I can see how they might contribute to points creep, but I don't see how making a really big model of a really big warmachine is going to have any effect whatsoever on how big a miniature of a human is.

Hi everybody,

I hadn't seen this thread here yet, and have only been keeping an eye on the Warseer one but I have some elaboration on my OP which I have just copied and pasted from Warseer if that's ok? It was a rather long reply, but covers most of the questions people have asked.

From my Warseer thread:

Hi everyone,

well in response to a few of the comments on here I can elaborate on a few bits.

Jes did indeed say that he is absolutely knackered after working on the Dark Eldar and is looking forward to a bit of a break but that there was still a fair bit to do on the Dark Eldar, but that 90% of the stuff in the Codex will definitely be out by June 2011.

In terms of Craftworld Eldar he said that the way he normally works is to alternate between Space Marines and something else, meaning that he would have worked on Marines next. However he doesn't plan to do any more Marine stuff for the foreseeable future as he feels he has passed them off to other designers and sculptors and so hopes to do something different.

One of the reasons that Dark Eldar have fired up his enthusiasm for Craftworld Eldar is simply that the design process and the technological advancements from the Dark Eldar work has meant that the design team now know how Eldar could be done better, using the lessons learnt from the last 5 years. He stated that he really would like to put this into practice but it all depends on what GW want him to do next. The impression I got was that Craftworld Eldar are still a long way off.

The biggest surprise to me was that he had to really persuade GW to let him do the Dark Eldar, as he wasn't allowed any input on the original range and they weren't convinced that a new launch would be that viable. However once he had persuaded them him and Phil Kelly were given a free reign to do pretty much what they wanted.

He said that he very much enjoyed putting some subtle Rogue Trader influences in (some of the beasts are original Rogue Trader ones) and this is something he would like to see more of in the future.

The problem with the plastic Sisters of Battle is indeed the cloth robes on the sleeves as has been stated before, but also the hair strangely enough. One of the particularly tricky aspects of the Dark Eldar ws getting the hair on the Wyches right, as if you have hair flowing in one direction it makes posing more difficult, as everything needs to flow the same way. This suggests that any new SOB figures we see will be much more dynamic. He also said that shoulder pads had been giving them grief, as they want flowing script on them and that is presenting problems too.

In terms of the 4 plastic kits the Venom is definite, as it will have the Wych passengers/hangers on and he wants these to be interchangeable with the Raider so that you can have Wych Raiders. For this reason I think the Venom will be soon as he is keen for people to be able to field Wych cult armies and be able to represent their Raiders appropriately.

He wouldn't say for definite what the other kits were but I do think at least one of them will be one of the flyers. He said the models are done and that the staff in the studio have been very excited about them and have even been running around the studio with them making aeroplane noises!!

He said that they don't look like the Forge World Dark Eldar flyers as they wanted to do something closer to the Craftworld Eldar aesthetic, and that they do look a lot like the Vampire and Phoenix variants, but with a more dark Eldar feel to them.

And the only other thing that I can remember is that he said it is unlikely he will be doing any more Warhammer Fantasy Battle stuff. He admitteded that it has been a long while since he did any in any case, but that he will be concentrating solely on 40K from now on, but that he will be taking a break for a while once the Dark Eldar are finished, so I presume from next June.

Anyway, I'm glad everyone is excited about the news. I don't think Jes will mind me talking about it, he was telling other people in the GW store the same stuff afterwards when signing the Codex so it should be OK, but I feel a bit bad as a lot of the stuff that we talked about was when we were smoking, and I'm hoping that it was ok to post it. I'm sure it's fine.

The pictures in the book make the fighter look like its similar to a Eldar Nightwing, so I don't know how much "phoenix" they'd bring into that or if he was only refering to the bomber.

AlexHolker wrote:

Ouze wrote:On the other hand, they contribute mightily to scale creep...

They do? I can see how they might contribute to points creep, but I don't see how making a really big model of a really big warmachine is going to have any effect whatsoever on how big a miniature of a human is.

No more than bringing a X0,000pt Grey Knight army of just orbital bombardments to an Apocolypse game.

asimo77 wrote:
Btw do we have any artwork at all of Venoms?

Yeah its in the Codex, under "Venom." Its a Vyper with larger engines on the wings, and space in back thats opened like a chariot, with the detailing of the Raiders front.

Thanks for your input StraightSilver! Much appreciated.

asimo77 wrote:
Btw do we have any artwork at all of Venoms?

Yeah its in the Codex, under "Venom." Its a Vyper with larger engines on the wings, and space in back thats opened like a chariot, with the detailing of the Raiders front.

Prophecy07 wrote:
Does anyone even play ridiculous tank battles in space?

Probably not, since 40K has become "ridiculous tank battles in space" in-and-of itself in the current meta-game.

Yay, plastic SOB news! Any news is good news

If jes does them....I'll be forced to worship him in someway. Jes is everything we want out of GW. amirite?

Stickmonkey from Warseer added these well informed speculations to the flyer extension rumours:

So after reading the recent post about Jes's comments I wanted to get some inside skinny.

We know Jes mentioned the DE flyers as being "on the way" And we have had constant rumoring of the Storm Raven.

Well I did some work asking and this is what I have to report.

There are currently 7 flyers in development...some complete, some nearing completion.

Possibility for a summer "Flyer" White Dwarf to introduce them, including special rules.

Tau, Eldar/DE, Ork, SM, Nid, ???

It makes a lot of sense, but if each of these is roughly the size of a Valk set, that's a huge release.

It would give credence to prior rumors the Storm Raven would not be released with GK...assuming GK still make Q1.

It doesnt seem to invalidate anything Jes has said.

We have had a history of these "combined" releases occuring mid year for a few years.

Cheers.

Funny tidbit: Warseer mods see no news in the confirmation of 7 flyers being in the works and mostly done and moved the thread to general discussion.

Here another guess at what those 7 flyers might be:

MajorWesJanson wrote:My guesses:
Storm Raven will get expanded to be taken by any Marine chapter.
Thunderbolt for Imperials to go along with the Valk
Fighta/Bomba for Orks
Barracuda for Tau
Void Raven/Razor kit for Eldar and Dark Eldar, with parts that can be swapped to style if for both.
Nid flying creature between the Harpy and Harridan (Call it a Virago?)
Necron flier (beetle styling?)

The plus side is that many of these kits are not required to be in a specific flier release.
Storm Raven can be a GK release, or a GK or BA wave
Necron flier can be in their new codex mid next year
Barracuda can be in the Tau codex late 2011 or early 2012, or a wave release that replaces their hybrid kits
Eldar/DEldar flier can be a DEldar wave release

That would leave the Thunderbolt, Fighta/Bomba, and Nid creature to come together in a flier release, with the first two for popular armies and the third providing more parts to kitbash for tervigons and tyrannofexes.

Shabadoo on the 4 DE plastic kits:

Make that

Talos
Venom
Razorwing
Voidraven

and you would be more accurate.