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Also, Hive Fleet Gorgon is possibly the absolute most dangerous threat to the galaxy at present. That fleet made Chaos look like pink bunnies with lolipops.

If it could adapt to Pulse Rifles and Ion Weapons it would WALK through Bolters and Lasguns. The fact that the Tau tricked it even though it was risky speaks for them in many ways. But the fact that the fleet escaped with Tau in pursuit and ALL the knowledge of the battle is even more terrifying.

having resistance to energy weapons doesn't equate to resistance to solid state weapons like bolters.

Lasguns would be resisted, but it isn't like lasguns did much to big bugs anyway.


the really killers are the Lemun Russ and Basilisk batteries.

Grey Templar wrote:having resistance to energy weapons doesn't equate to resistance to solid state weapons like bolters.

Lasguns would be resisted, but it isn't like lasguns did much to big bugs anyway.


the really killers are the Lemun Russ and Basilisk batteries.

Thing is, the carapace didn't become immune to plasma, it hardend to the point that a super accelerated particles that turns into a plasma round did nothing to it.

Bolters would tink off them, the SMs would have to use different bolter rounds non-stop and pretty much, it would compensate faster from learning about that trick from the Tau.

If it ever came back it would rock faces.. hard.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
When the mere fact they have outpaced the entire Imperium technologically in 6k years starting from cavemen speaks for itself.

Warpstorm > flow of time inside > really 6k years? or 6k in realspace....

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
The Crusade sanctioned against the Tau as already mentioned included Titans. The size of the Crusade then can be assumed relatively large and if I'm not mistaken there is fluff about Hydrass, Firios, etc..

No, was assumed to be enough to deal with a small threat just worthy of attention. A large crusade was sent later, led by sicarius and would have kicked their asses if they hadn't more important threats to deal with ( again ...plot armor much ? ).

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Seeing as how that Crusade stalled out against one Planet, the force needed to destroy the Tau would be vast. While I do not doubt the Imperium given time could accomplish this, their Empire would lose far more on other fronts than they would gain conquering something the size of 1% of their Empire.

Conquering?
Exterminatus. x20 or so...

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Not to mention it would be risky putting that many Space Marines somewhere, for if even one Chapter is lost the Imperium would fall.

huh?
How about the badab war? Did the IoM fall?


Mankind survived dozens of civil wars. Tau nearly killed themselves in just 1. Think about it.

Tau are more likely to adapt and learn then imperial guard. They do realize there a small empire and don't have nearly the numbers to compete with the empire, but they are willing to adapt at a far more faster rate then say Death korps of kreg.

reading IA volume 3 about 3 times over will give you a good idea on how stubborn the imperial guard can be vs the fluid tau.

Tau rarely have the issue of logistics as the empire does. Not only that you have to look a tactical challenge for a regular guardsmen, squad vs squad the guardsmen are already out of range before they get engaged by the tau.

Now back to the original question of this entire post that everybody seemed to lose track of.

Yes a greyknight would probably win against a fire warrior one vs one. A single firewarrior is a simple rank and file soldier vs the emperors finest, finest.

What type of fight are we talking here? Melee? Ranged? Thumb wrestling? If its thumb wrestling then my vote is for the Tau. Their thumbs would be like Rey Mysterio... agile and technical.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:for if even one Chapter is lost the Imperium would fall

Where did you get that idea?
New chapter are formed every now and then when FC that have centuries of experience go and found new chapters.
Imperium lost few chapters in the last 1000 years ( Soul Drinkers, Mortificators, Lamanters ) and it still endures.
And for the record, Against Tau Imperium only used 10% of the Crusade fleet - they didn't expect for Tau to be so vigilant.
And they use only 3 Titans in Democles - all Warhound Titans. If they use only 1 Legion with at least 2 Imperator Titans - very different story...


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djphranq wrote:What type of fight are we talking here? Melee? Ranged? Thumb wrestling? If its thumb wrestling then my vote is for the Tau. Their thumbs would be like Rey Mysterio... agile and technical.

Alll is taken in consideration: Melle, Ranged and also an experienced and equipment. And for the end: can 1 GK kill 1000 FW?

Fact is, the Imperium is losing ground to the Tau. The Damocles Gulf joined the Empire willingly and more will join!

As for the conflicts? IoM has a sad record of wins even with overwhelming numbers.

During the Taros conflict, The IoM brought 9 Regiments, 2 Shock Trooper Companies, Assualt Engineers in support, 4 Space Marine Companies, and 4 Warhound Titans. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Taros_Campaign

Thats a ton of Imperium being dumped into one planet even by Imperium Standards yet they still lost to the Fire Caste Army along with support from Kroot and locales that wanted freedom from the IoM.


The Tau do not tolerate or fear the Imperiums fumbling tactics on the ground or in space.

9 Regiments, 2 Shock Trooper Companies, Assualt Engineers in support, 4 Space Marine Companies, and 4 Warhound Titans is NOTHING to the imperium(except for the Space Marines and they act on their own accord)



the T'au don't like taking losses. if they begin to lose numbers(even if actually winning) they will pull out.

the T'au have no concept of War by Attrition.


the Imperium has endless bodies to throw at wars. losing 1 planet and a few companies is nothing compared to the Imperial birth rate.


the T'au won because the Imperium could afford to lose the planet and didn't send enough forces to hold it.

the T'au would have considered Taros a Major victory, but to the Imperium it wasn't even worth thinking about.


The T'au can fix their whole attention on taking worlds one at a time. the Imperium is so massive, the T'au arn't classified as a major threat.



once the T'au start picking at the imperium enough the Imperium is going to come down full force on them and the T'au won't last a hundred years once that happens.

Thing is though, it was a major loss.

5 Guard Regiments were totally wiped out, a number of fleet ships of immense size lost, an invaluable titan and a forgeworld lost a ton of resources it very much needed for other more important conflicts.

As a result I believe a high ranking commander was executed for the failure. It was ONE planet.

The IoM started out as a single planet lead by a goal of galactic conquest fueled by advanced technology. Sorry but the tables are turning... The IoM had its shot, it's too bad Primarchs have daddy issues or else Tau never would of been an issue.

the regiments are replacable.


the forge world hurts, but if it was an invaluable Forge World they would have launched a force to reclaim it(a force that would NOT have failed)


if the Imperium wants something done, it gets done.

Indeed. Remember, Tau are a tiny, miniscule, only marginally important power... at best. The Imperium faces thousands of empires like the Tau scattered throughout the galaxy Some of them human, some of them not, each one varying widely in capability and size-- and many of them are probably a bigger threat than the Tau even though they don't get their own army list and codex.

yeah, the T'au were really a half thought out add on so GW could catch some of the Anime craze that was happening at the time.


it also coencided with the first GW in Japan.

I don't doubt for a second Tau are small or that they were made to appeal to an anime crowd.

However, I doubt there is any other force out there rocking Railguns and Pulse Rifles pantsing Regiments and Crusades wholesale.... If so, that says more about the IoM than it does about the Tau.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the IoM is worthless force in 40K. Just that the time of their unstoppable might has come to an end. Like the Eldar before them, they are spent and playing a defense game these days.

Also, in 40Ks timeline I highly doubt we will ever see them fall for obvious reasons. Just don't be surprised if that small Tau Empire begins to grow into something much larger.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Don't get me wrong, I don't think the IoM is worthless force in 40K. Just that the time of their unstoppable might has come to an end.

Much like an aging gorilla, they can still kill that rambunctious little mouse who's trying to chew on their toes quite easily.

Melissia wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Don't get me wrong, I don't think the IoM is worthless force in 40K. Just that the time of their unstoppable might has come to an end.

Much like an aging gorilla, they can still kill that rambunctious little mouse who's trying to chew on their toes quite easily.

That gorilla better step his game up then, because so far that mouse has been rockin him pretty hard haha

The gorilla's more worried about the giant bug-lizard that's come to eat him than some pesky little rodent who was agile enough to avoid being quashed a couple times.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Thing is though, it was a major loss.

5 Guard Regiments were totally wiped out, a number of fleet ships of immense size lost, an invaluable titan and a forgeworld lost a ton of resources it very much needed for other more important conflicts.

As a result I believe a high ranking commander was executed for the failure. It was ONE planet.

The IoM started out as a single planet lead by a goal of galactic conquest fueled by advanced technology. Sorry but the tables are turning... The IoM had its shot, it's too bad Primarchs have daddy issues or else Tau never would of been an issue.

Just for the notice, Commander Kubrik Chenkov lost 10.000.000 Guardsman while conquering one city, that's 843 Regiments.
And Imperium has replace them in a matter of days. And what the man before me said - Taros was just backworld planet the Imperium did not care about.
And what conquering? They where successful in conquering just 4 planets. And they lost an Etherial while conquering one. Every other campaign ( Nimbosa, Kronus, Kaurava... ) was a defeat. And even if Tau where able to conquer that they can go further because their FTL, unless they plan to send enormous fleets that would travel months or years to conquer an Imperial world. But then, they must hold on for that long to receive any help.
I am sorry, but in the long run the Imperium is a winner.


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BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I don't think the IoM is worthless force in 40K. Just that the time of their unstoppable might has come to an end. Like the Eldar before them, they are spent and playing a defense game these days.

And for the note, Imperium covers 90% of the galaxy. I think it's safe to assume that they don't need conquering anymore. Except if they find a way to another galaxy... but that's already a different story.

Yeah but those are Valhallans, may aswell be talking about Kroot for combat effectiveness.

The regiments lost on Taros were actually decent Guard regiments. Hence being used to secure a resource planet for a forgeworld.


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Also, Nimbosa wasn't a defeat. They massacred every imperial down to the last, then massacred every imperial sent down to the last.

Valhallans are good fighters...
Chenkov is just a nutter of the highest magnitude.

Uh, yeah, Nimbosa was a definite defeat. They managed to take the world, but were unable to hold it-- ending with the destruction of the entire Tau garrison, not one escaped.

This is a stupid thread and is completely off topic.