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Tycho wrote:

You have to upgrade to get the repair role to a 4+ (base is 5+ if I'm not mistaken)

just to show us all how poorly designed he was he repairs on a 5+ but automatically comes with a peice of equipment that gives him +1 to repair. So in no scenerio does he not repair on 4+.

He was an afterthought

 Exergy wrote:

So instead of shooting a BS5 melta gun at a vehicle which would probably kill it, you are going to curse it. Even a super high ROF venom or punisher can just not fire next turn if it doesnt want to.

If the curse gave the vehicle "cannot shoot next turn" would it ever be better than shooting the meltagun and the flamer?

MGs have a range of 12", and an effective kill range of 6". The curse has 18".

 jifel wrote:

BrotherOfBone wrote:
Waste of a HQ slot, I'd much rather have a Sorcerer for some psyker-ness, a Demon Prince or a Lord... Even Dark Apostles are pretty good in comparison to the Warpsmith, and, if you want to know why nobody takes Warpsmiths, look at the reasons Space Marine players don't take Master Of The Forge or Techmarines.. Yeah, sure, they can repair vehicles and they're not bad at shooting, (in my IW fandex, the psykers repair the vehicles with their super machiney spells ) and they're not bad a combat, but his LD isn't so good, and he's a bit of a mediocre, all-rounder..

I agree sorcerers are better, and I always take one, but how is his LD a problem? He's Ld. 10, which is fairly reliable.

If he gets in a combat with some Blood Claws or a nice mob of assault marines, you'll be the first to complain about his Leadership.. Especially if he's in a squad of cultists like you plan to use him, they'll take a lot of casualties and the LD modifiers will NOT be good for him, as far as I'm concerned, if you want to use him, put him in some uber grit CSMs with Icon of Vengeance (I think this is the one that give them fearless) so they pass it on to him, it gives him some guys to take bullets for him, and a bit more CC support (if you really are that set on taking him)

MGs have a range of 12", and an effective kill range of 6". The curse has 18".

So walk forward 6" and shoot? The fact that curse has 6" on a MG doesn't change the fact that it really isn't very good.

just to show us all how poorly designed he was he repairs on a 5+ but automatically comes with a peice of equipment that gives him +1 to repair. So in no scenerio does he not repair on 4+.

He was an afterthought

Wait what? Are you sure? I don't have my codex in front of me but I could have sworn you had to pay for that upgrade. lol What a joke if you're right. That would indeed confirm the after thought status imo.

Tycho wrote:
So walk forward 6" and shoot? The fact that curse has 6" on a MG doesn't change the fact that it really isn't very good.

What if your target starts off 19" away? Even walking up 6" and shooting won't help you. Your not netting anything from it.

You also need to know that a MG over 6" away is not that great of a threat. Your not getting much value out of it. Its good against light armor, but its not much better than a ML.

Finally, you are assuming that I'm saying you should always use the curse. If your able to get your MG in 6" -- use it!
I'm saying that the curse has times when it has value. Its an added benifit that the warpsmith has in his toolkit.

 labmouse42 wrote:
Unlike units in terminator armor, the warpsmith can join units in a rhino.

A Character in Terminator armour can join a unit up to 8 models big in a Rhino...

 Exergy wrote:
So instead of shooting a BS5 melta gun at a vehicle which would probably kill it, you are going to curse it.

The Curse is longer range than the Melta and very well could be used on things too far away for the Melta to hit. For the Melta to take advantage of its special rules it needs to be within 1/3 range of the curse.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
Unlike units in terminator armor, the warpsmith can join units in a rhino.

A Character in Terminator armour can join a unit up to 8 models big in a Rhino...

Check the rhino entry bud.
p54 CSM codex.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
Unlike units in terminator armor, the warpsmith can join units in a rhino.

A Character in Terminator armour can join a unit up to 8 models big in a Rhino...

Check the rhino entry bud.
p54 CSM codex.

Ah, I was going by the entry in the army list section, which doesn't have that extra restriction... Hmmmm, now I've got to rethink a list I was going to try...

Finally, you are assuming that I'm saying you should always use the curse.

No, I got that you were saying that you felt like it was a nice bonus (and NOT something you thought should be used every time). My main point was that I can't see curse really being super useful at ANY range vs the options the Warpsmith has and yet you're still paying extra to have that ability

Here's my basic argument:

Go watch the old movie "Twins" with Danny Devito and Arnold Schwarzenager. In the case of CSM, The sorcerer, special characters and generic lord are Arnold, and then the Warpsmith is Devito - IE, made up of all the waste from making the GOOD choices. A bunch of mutually exclusive abilities in a high-cost package that doesn't really fit in a leadership role and should have been an elite slot. I will give you this - he's still better the Dark Apostle ...

Tycho wrote:
Go watch the old movie "Twins" with Danny Devito and Arnold Schwarzenager. In the case of CSM, The sorcerer, special characters and generic lord are Arnold, and then the Warpsmith is Devito - IE, made up of all the waste from making the GOOD choices. A bunch of mutually exclusive abilities in a high-cost package that doesn't really fit in a leadership role and should have been an elite slot. I will give you this - he's still better the Dark Apostle ...

As I usually play with Lords,Sorcerers,Fabius, or Abbadon I agree with your analogy. I have a highly competitive meta, and play hard.

However, if someone does want to play the quirky Danny Devito then there is nothing wrong with it. On lower competitive games it will have a marginal impact.

As I usually play with Lords,Sorcerers,Fabius, or Abbadon I agree with your analogy. I have a highly competitive meta, and play hard.

However, if someone does want to play the quirky Danny Devito then there is nothing wrong with it. On lower competitive games it will have a marginal impact.

That's fair enough!

The best use for him I have found is as the gunner on an Icarus loaded on top of a bastion. In that way he can also attach to a unit of Oblits and up their leadership on the thing. The 4 model unit fits on top of the bastion and shoots pretty well.

The cheap BS of 5 is the only positive worth mentioning.

DarthDiggler wrote:
The best use for him I have found is as the gunner on an Icarus loaded on top of a bastion. In that way he can also attach to a unit of Oblits and up their leadership on the thing. The 4 model unit fits on top of the bastion and shoots pretty well.

The cheap BS of 5 is the only positive worth mentioning.

What about the damage terrain ability? That's fairly unique unless you are loading up on cover ignoring weapons.

 minigun762 wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:
The best use for him I have found is as the gunner on an Icarus loaded on top of a bastion. In that way he can also attach to a unit of Oblits and up their leadership on the thing. The 4 model unit fits on top of the bastion and shoots pretty well.

The cheap BS of 5 is the only positive worth mentioning.

What about the damage terrain ability? That's fairly unique unless you are loading up on cover ignoring weapons.

unique, but it is too restricted. You cannot target purchased terrain. You cannot target terrain that is not in your oppenents deployment zone. Far too often you cannot target anything and if you can, often it isnt of value.

If you could target a enemies adl he would almost he an autotake. No 4+ for you sir.

krazykishere wrote:
If you could target a enemies adl he would almost he an autotake. No 4+ for you sir.

That would be very powerful indeed.

Still, there is usually something to reduce and it adds another use beyond camping a quad gun.