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I'm not sure who that is.

mbutler132000 wrote:
I'm not sure who that is.

wait until the search fearture has been fixed, pop some popcorn and read a few hours of what you search result produces when you search that name. I seriously was thinking your guy was DM's Canadian cousin.

Sent a message to Sean via Facebook and received an answer.

Me: I have seen your website has been taken down and you are not answering my Twitter messages or my emails. Can I get an answer as to whether or not you are going to return my models and money?

Sean: Nono it's just under a diff domain the normal one is renewing.
I'll have an update shortly this I yer et problem is coming to and end finally
Internet*

Me: Ok so you received my last email?

Have not received an answer yet.

I hope I get my razorback back, and you get your army back. Hopefully he just has horrible customer service compared to being a thief.

 alarmingrick wrote:

mbutler132000 wrote:
I'm not sure who that is.

wait until the search fearture has been fixed, pop some popcorn and read a few hours of what you search result produces when you search that name. I seriously was thinking your guy was DM's Canadian cousin.

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=Daniel+Mandelbaum+site%3Awww.dakkadakka.com&l=1

For those interested

Sean finally wrote me back via Twitter.

Sean - I have to look at your bill to work everything out. Refresh myself on the specifics

Me - I am looking for a refund of the money I have paid thus far unless you can prove the models are being worked on or finished. These should be finished as you assured me it would be no more than three weeks and that time was up months ago. I would like full refund on the money I paid in for the special you had running, the total is in the emails I sent you I would also like the models I sent returned to me. If the High Elves have been painted to the standard you set forth I will pay for them If not I want a refund of the full $500 I have paid in as well as the High Elves and the other models I sent over, as this will mean you did not keep up your end of the agreement.

I will also mention to him those members on this forum who have brought up the fact he did not keep up his end of the deal with them.

Does it seem to anyone, that he could just steal your money without stealing your toys too? It is a solid kick to the groin that he takes both.

If you are going to be a jerk, why not be a total jerk?

Well, it's not like the law is going to do anything about it. As far as I know people have actually tried before, and even though it's an adult blatantly stealing another adult's property (and in most cases their money as well), the cops still view miniatures as literally toys and aren't really willing to treat it like "real" theft, even when in Mandelbaum's case there's literally hours worth of reading and evidence to go with the claims, with thousands of dollars worth of product or services unaccounted for, and his real name and physical address available to go with it all. It might as well be a child telling on another child for stealing his ice cream cone for all the feths they'll give. They'll probably tell you they'll look into it while fighting back a smile, then crack up laughing as soon as you're gone and not do jack gak after the fact, instead joking with their buddies about the awkward man-child that came in to report his My Little Pony dolls being stolen.

It's essentially a crime with no punishment, except maybe in the rarest of circumstances. It's why Mandelbaum has gotten away with it for literally years, possibly still continues to this day, and undoubtedly why the hobby seems to attract so many others like him. Wargamers are easy targets and have no way to fight back or seek restitution, and any attempt to do so will fail because no one takes it seriously.

Could mail fraud play into this? I put in a complaint with the USPS and local PD before with some paintball stuff(not even $100 worth) and the local PD in Hawaii went to dudes house. Got my stuff in two shakes of a lambs tail.

Take a look at this thread.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/523737.page

Its slightly old but it may be of use. Maybe speak via pm to some of the guys who were involved.

Btw if you file for it, they are not miniatures or models, call them collectibles and you'll be taken far more seriously.

 dantay_xv wrote:
Take a look at this thread.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/523737.page

Its slightly old but it may be of use. Maybe speak via pm to some of the guys who were involved.

Btw if you file for it, they are not miniatures or models, call them collectibles and you'll be taken far more seriously.

Yep, see my post above. Worked out the same for me. That's why I'm always puzzled on why folks don't pursue criminal action more aggressively.

 Byte wrote:

 dantay_xv wrote:
Take a look at this thread.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/523737.page

Its slightly old but it may be of use. Maybe speak via pm to some of the guys who were involved.

Btw if you file for it, they are not miniatures or models, call them collectibles and you'll be taken far more seriously.

Yep, see my post above. Worked out the same for me. That's why I'm always puzzled on why folks don't pursue criminal action more aggressively.

I think it may come down to actual local PDs and public officials. I contacted both the local police and DA's office in Daniel Mandelbaum's area and was told in didn't matter vebally and via form letters. When he was nonstop calling my house I called my local PD. The oficer came out, filed a report and suggested I stay off "the Dakka". It's atitudes like that that make it feel almost if they're aiding and abetting people like him through indifference.

Tell you what, money is money and mail/wire fraud is fraud. Paying for services and products not rendered is a crime. It sucks that didn't work for you, but god help the idiot that tries to take kitty food money from this house!

I've filed a claim with one of my actual credit card companies for services not rendered in the past, the credit card company reimbursed me and sued the individual (~$900). My paypal is associated with one of my cards, I always have that bullet in my belt.

For myself since it was only $40 and a razorback I lost it would not be worth going to the pd: but I will suggest it to my brother

Sean had agreed to give me a refund on the additional money I paid in on the deal he had going. Once I have received this I will post that fact as well as what the plan will be for going forward.

Any updates?

This sounds like a Mandelbaum. Good luck.

No update as of yet. I will say it appears his website is back up. I'm not saying that's evidence he will follow through.

Well he must have internet, he has just blocked me from replying to any of his posts or messaging him, all i asked is if I would ever see my model. Which leads me to two conclusions, #1 I am not getting my model back, and #2 he is still wanting to get new "customers" so be careful, it would also be awesome if some people could comment on some of the photos,and start putting pressure.

Link: https://www.facebook.com/Battlegroundswargaming?ref=stream

If this Daniel Mandelbaum guy is still active, should the linked thread be stickied? It is unfortunate to have more members of the hobby being scammed.

Bad trades/online purchases already leave a bad taste in my mouth. I can only imagine how being scammed can put a player off this hobby totally, as everytime you look at a model, you would only be reminded of the scam.

Hi everyone,

I too had the exact same problem with Sean Duncan. However I went ahead last month and contacted the peel police department. I have been in contact with them and they have worked with me (one of the police Sgt's has emailed me multiple times). Now that I know this is a bigger issue I will email him and ask him if he wants me to put his email up on this forum or if he would want to email you guys all individually. I'll keep you guys updated as soon as I receive word from him.

Would greatly appreciate that. At this point I think everyone would prefer to get back the merchandise and whatever money they can that has been paid to this guy.

I remember this guy starting up, and the prices he was offering were stupidly cheap. The quality, meh, reasonable enough. But I didn't think it was maintainable then. Looks like I may have been right.

I've been doing commissions a long time, and the truth of it is, when you put prices down like that the volume of work has a very high risk of becoming daunting to the point of you simply not being capable of doing it.

Having taken money in advance (even at the 10% - 20% up front I charge) is TERRIFYING. You can get into the situation where know you need to push things on, but you literally don't have the time, and this causes a freeze while you find something else to give you money to eat / rent a room, whatever, and that can (if you've been even slightly overconfident in your scheduling) cause a vicious cycle of spiralling debt (in terms of work owed, if not actual arrears on payments due). It can get even worse if you're working two jobs to make ends meet, as you have even less time than you were estimating when thinking of the commission things as 'full time'. Take the moral path of completing your promised work, or the practical path of being able to eat? Generally most people's morals go out of the window if they can't support themselves.

In terms of advice to commission places - learn how to say 'no, I can't do any more', and 'I need to cancel this job'. Ensure you have the deposit money for commissions booked set aside so you can refund it if necessary. Also, ensure you talk to clients when things go tits up (and sooner or later, something ALWAYS goes tits up).

I've had one job (albeit a large one) go badly wrong, and I'm still working on it, having taken initial order and deposit nearly 2 years ago. This has meant I've basically needed to stop taking on new work (other than a few small pieces to keep things ticking over) so I can concentrate on it - clearing the decks and throttling back while maintaining a profile of work (and balancing other jobs too) is extremely difficult. Luckily, the client is well aware of how things play out, and is happy to wait for what'll be an absolutely lovely army when I'm done with it. And he knows where I live and (scarily) knows how to call in airstrikes, lol.

In terms of advice to clients looking for commission work - don't just look at a gallery of work done - pay attention to WHEN it was done. This gives you an idea as to whether the studio is active - tracking WIP posts on forums is a good way of seeing things. Look for honesty in how the service communicates with people - a purely positive spin is usually... well, spin. Everybody screws up sometimes, look for the places that acknowledge that and deal with it.


NEVER pay up front in full unless you really, really trust the service - this means you've had successful, satisfactory work done in the past and you trust the studio to communicate and/or hold your money and toys.

NEVER EVER trust a place that requires payment in full up front. I don't know anywhere that does this.

Hey guys,

Sorry for the delay in updates. I am in the army so I tend to get stuck in the field alot.

As of approximately 1 hour ago, this case was forwarded to an Officer in the criminal investigation bureau of the Peel police department. The Police SGT I have been working with after looking into the matter forwarded all the relevant details (and this thread) to them. He will let me know what the CIB will do sometime this week once he has an answer from them. I will continue to update as I get more info. Hang in there guys!

Thanks for the update. I filed a complaint with the BBB
which was un-responded to by Sean, so at least that mark will be on his record if anyone tries to look up the validity of his services: http://www.bbb.org/kitchener/business-reviews/miniatures-collectors/battlegrounds-wargaming-in-brampton-on-1308593/complaints

I would advise anyone who has negative dealings with him to open a BBB case. It's unlikely that you will gain anything from it, but it will help to create a public record so that others will be aware. When I initially set up my project with him, I didn't find anything negative (and I looked) and so I took the chance. I want to do what I can to make sure nobody else falls into the same trap that I did.

I will open a case with my local police department (as I'm out $315 USD retail in models and $400 CAD in commission), and forward any information I can to help with your case.

I set up a commission with Sean about a year ago. I live about 1 hour from him so thought worst case scenario I could track him down. Needless to say very similar situation. I was put off many times and my project was delayed. We talked on the phone many times. I put up $80 as a deposit. He said he had a family member who worked for FedEx and I couriered the models to him. About 1.5 months later (supposed to be 2 weeks) I got my models back. A terrible paint job, nothing like what was agreed. When I say terrible I mean terrible. I've since stripped the models they were that bad. He agreed it was lousy and had tons of excuses. I cut my loses and did not give him an extra cent. I kept calling him and emailing him and finally got my models back. Do not deal with this guy is my advice.

Hope everything works out for you.

Refamonkey wrote:
Hey guys,

Sorry for the delay in updates. I am in the army so I tend to get stuck in the field alot.

As of approximately 1 hour ago, this case was forwarded to an Officer in the criminal investigation bureau of the Peel police department. The Police SGT I have been working with after looking into the matter forwarded all the relevant details (and this thread) to them. He will let me know what the CIB will do sometime this week once he has an answer from them. I will continue to update as I get more info. Hang in there guys!

Thanks for the update, Refa! Best of luck to you and others trying to get your money / models back, or at least getting some justice served.

He has just posted this on his facebook page.

"Hey everyone. Thanks for sticking with us during the inyernet issues we have been having. Our normal website address and email address issue has been addressed and fixed. So please feel free to contact us anytime."

It seems he has yet to give up, he is either the dumbest scam artist or the worst business owner ever, either way I want my models back!

I know some people my believe this is just naiveté but I think it's just really poor management and someone starting something they have no idea how to run. Seems like a lot of work for a scam that would all have to be redone pretty quickly once a person was caught.