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(Without reading through the whole thread...)

If he's coming to you to show off his broken lists, casually go to his upcoming opponents and let them know what he's bringing so they can counter it. Only fair that if one knows what the other is bringing, the other should be likewise informed.

Steelmage99 wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 calamarialldayerrday wrote:
Lol. How old are you guys?

I'd tell you but unfortunately most people generate a preset opinion of someone's attitudes depending on their age, so I'd rather not tell you in order to have you have an opinion of me depending on my attitude and not my age.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Skinnereal wrote:
If you get to know his lists for the next session, tip off his likely opponents to tailor their lists against them.

I'd certainly like to do that but it seems like that if I like a suggestion "certain" people comment on how bad of a person I am in response.

OK. Here is a piece of actual serious advice.

You are going to have to talk with him....not to him or at him....but actual communication.
During this communication you are only allowed to talk about how YOU feel or YOUR worries. You are not allowed to guess at why he is doing what he is doing, you are not allowed to blame him and you cannot start a sentence with the word "You".

Do not reference Dakka, the Internet or "all the other guys at the club".....just stick to using "I".

(Here is your chance to practice)

What would you actually say to him?

Here goes:
Hey ****, I know that you felt bad because you were beaten but I feel worse for not coming to talk to you in person before the whole scenario escalated to that point. I'd like you to know that when we had that game on your first week back that it was fun and we there was no need for min-maxing of army lists that using the stuff we had painted and modelled most recently was quite interesting and added variety to what is usually added to what you use to take. I would like that if you could avoid using the competetive mindset when writing lists and playing games as it takes away from the enjoyment for your opponent, and thrashing people repetitively may seem fun initially but it really starts to give a guilty feeling and no one will want to give you games.

I don't know where to go from there


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormwall wrote:
This sounds like teenager stuff, haha.

You can always do what you guys did the first time though, it worked the first time, right?

Seriously though, a more mature club would have banned him the first go around instead of making competitive lists or the owner would have asked him quietly to fix himself or not come back. It would be the owner of the FLGS/wherever you play to ask such a thing. If all the players had a problem, a mature discussion would have worked too, or contacting the owner in private to fix these issues. I don't understand it, there are so many good FLGS out there, and then the other half of them ruins the reputation of the first. It's not rocket science how to be mature and run a business or a gaming club but, I do imagine it takes more effort then chewing on crayola crayons.

What ever happened to treating others as you would be treated/acting like a gentleman and approaching an issue straight forward? It seems it is so commonplace to stir the pot and let BS fester than the cut through it this latest generation.

I'd like to avoid doing what we did to him again as it made me really guilty as the club host because I had no clue what to do, this is my second chance, so I would like to do right. I didn't want the whole scenario repeat itself without doing something different first at least. I do do the best for the gaming club but there's only so much a "teenager"can do while juggling the last year of high school.

If he wants to play the most amazing lists, let him. People will either play him or not; as a friend, the only time you should consider intervening is if he starts being rude or a poor sport. Even then it sounds like he's an adult which means there's little you can do.

If you don't want to play him, don't. That doesn't mean you get to go around telling people not to play him, you're not his parent or his conscience. Talking to HIM about it is about the only thing you can do.

 Frankenberry wrote:
If he wants to play the most amazing lists, let him. People will either play him or not; as a friend, the only time you should consider intervening is if he starts being rude or a poor sport. Even then it sounds like he's an adult which means there's little you can do.

If you don't want to play him, don't. That doesn't mean you get to go around telling people not to play him, you're not his parent or his conscience. Talking to HIM about it is about the only thing you can do.

So you're suggesting that I ignore him until no one wants to play him anymore?
BTW he's the same age as most of us at the gaming club(he's not an adult)

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
If he wants to play the most amazing lists, let him. People will either play him or not; as a friend, the only time you should consider intervening is if he starts being rude or a poor sport. Even then it sounds like he's an adult which means there's little you can do.

If you don't want to play him, don't. That doesn't mean you get to go around telling people not to play him, you're not his parent or his conscience. Talking to HIM about it is about the only thing you can do.

So you're suggesting that I ignore him until no one wants to play him anymore?
BTW he's the same age as most of us at the gaming club(he's not an adult)

Is anyone an adult at your club?

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
If he wants to play the most amazing lists, let him. People will either play him or not; as a friend, the only time you should consider intervening is if he starts being rude or a poor sport. Even then it sounds like he's an adult which means there's little you can do.

If you don't want to play him, don't. That doesn't mean you get to go around telling people not to play him, you're not his parent or his conscience. Talking to HIM about it is about the only thing you can do.

So you're suggesting that I ignore him until no one wants to play him anymore?
BTW he's the same age as most of us at the gaming club(he's not an adult)

No, I'm suggesting that you talk to him as a friend and convey your concerns. What he chooses to do afterwards is not something you can control, people on Dakka will tell you to screw him over by telling his opponents his list in advance so they can tailor a response - if any 'friend' of mine did that, over a game, I'd be minus a friend.

You can't control the guy, he'll have to learn the way all people learn - if you act like a douche in attitude or list building, you'll lose opponents. Or not.

 Stormwall wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
If he wants to play the most amazing lists, let him. People will either play him or not; as a friend, the only time you should consider intervening is if he starts being rude or a poor sport. Even then it sounds like he's an adult which means there's little you can do.

If you don't want to play him, don't. That doesn't mean you get to go around telling people not to play him, you're not his parent or his conscience. Talking to HIM about it is about the only thing you can do.

So you're suggesting that I ignore him until no one wants to play him anymore?
BTW he's the same age as most of us at the gaming club(he's not an adult)

Is anyone an adult at your club?

Shock and horror! A demographic that does not consist entirely of 20/30 something year old man-children are playing the game, panic!

There are many games clubs based at schools and colleges, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that there are some younger players on dakka. It is better to guide and advise them, rather than belittle them for having less birthdays than you.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

 Stormwall wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
If he wants to play the most amazing lists, let him. People will either play him or not; as a friend, the only time you should consider intervening is if he starts being rude or a poor sport. Even then it sounds like he's an adult which means there's little you can do.

If you don't want to play him, don't. That doesn't mean you get to go around telling people not to play him, you're not his parent or his conscience. Talking to HIM about it is about the only thing you can do.

So you're suggesting that I ignore him until no one wants to play him anymore?
BTW he's the same age as most of us at the gaming club(he's not an adult)

Is anyone an adult at your club?

Shock and horror! A demographic that does not consist entirely of 20/30 something year old man-children are playing the game, panic!

There are many games clubs based at schools and colleges, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that there are some younger players on dakka. It is better to guide and advise them, rather than belittle them for having less birthdays than you.

Nice way to get confrontational over nothing. I was curious if there is an adult at the FGLS/Club to lay down the law and set ground rules, or to give guidance. Sorry that the way it was presented that it looks like to a stranger that this is just petty highschool drama. Shocker, I know!

I am going to assume no, since he's here on a forum asking strangers to give him advice. More Shock and Horror! Such plot twist!

 hiveof_chimera wrote:


Here goes:
Hey ****, I know that you felt bad because you were beaten but I feel worse for not coming to talk to you in person before the whole scenario escalated to that point. I'd like you to know that when we had that game on your first week back that it was fun and we there was no need for min-maxing of army lists that using the stuff we had painted and modelled most recently was quite interesting and added variety to what is usually added to what you use to take. I would like that if you could avoid using the competetive mindset when writing lists and playing games as it takes away from the enjoyment for your opponent, and thrashing people repetitively may seem fun initially but it really starts to give a guilty feeling and no one will want to give you games.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

Good effort. Let's see what we can do with it.

"I know that you felt bad because you were beaten but I feel worse for not coming to talk to you in person before the whole scenario escalated to that point."
"and thrashing people repetitively may seem fun initially but it really starts to give a guilty feeling "

Here you are guessing at why he is doing what he is doing, ie guessing about his emotions. Psychologists and psychiatrists only do this after many years of education....and even they get it wrong sometimes. You and I should stick to our own feelings.

" I would like that if you could avoid using the competetive mindset when writing lists"
" and we there was no need for min-maxing of army lists "

No blame is to be assigned. You might (correctly) think that he is to blame, but mentioning that or starting from that point ends a conversation faster than anything (except perhaps a punch to throat....that'll stop a conversation real quick ). A constructive conversation needs to focus on matching our expectations and finding a solution.

"as it takes away from the enjoyment for your opponent"
"no one will want to give you games"

We cannot speak on behalf of others. Not Dakka, not the Internet and not his future opponents.

Let's have a look at how a different conversation could start.

Hey ***. I am sorry that I didn't talk to you in person before the whole scenario escalated to that point. I'd like you to know that I had a lot of fun when we had that game on your first week.
I really enjoyed how our armies slowly grew as we painted and modelled, and how our armies were varied and fun.
I prefer to play my games in a more relaxed atmosphere. Just having fun and shooting the gak. I would like it very much if we could return to that/play like that.
I wouldn't really enjoy our games as much if it was all about "kicking butt and taking names" at all, and I don't know a lot who would in this store"

After having said this, you need to shut up. Sit/stand in front of him, smile a tiny bit (so you present a friendly face), and.....say.....nothing. Just wait.
When he begins to speak (and he will. Just give it time) listen to what he says, and nod when he makes a point. Allow him to finish.
If he says something that you think is unfair or untrue, just suck it up and nod.
If you think he is done......just wait a few more seconds. He might have a bit more to say after catching his breath.


If he says something you like, you smile a bit more and nod emphatically.
If he says something you don't like, you smile a bit less and nod slowly while looking down.

He might go really defensive, and make counter-accusations or complaints. Just nod. This could be frustration that he needs to get off his chest. Just let him do that and nod.
His actual response might come after this. So just let him vent if necessary.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where the conversation goes from there I cannot possibly predict.
Know this. No matter the outcome, you have presented your case in a reasonable and adult manner.

Just keep the following in mind;
- Don't start with "you", and I don't just mean the actual construction of the sentence. I mean the message must be about the "I", not the "you". (You make me feel sad when you do X, rather I feel sad when you do X)
- No blaming (what has happened is in the past. The future consists of solutions)
- Do not guess at his motivations/feelings (Just don't. Stick to what you know....and that is your own feelings)

Hope it helps.

Sometimes people are tired of losing and figure they need to channel their inner-evil.
Sometimes being evil with your friends on occasion is great fun.

It would be interesting to see if he gets his bubble burst since many people are more competitive lately so even acting as a WAAC he may still get trounced.

If he is specifically looking for "victims" that would be rather short lived, since word would get around.
I think it will organically work itself out.

Wait till he has had a few games in, he may change his mind on what direction he wants to go.
Failing that, step-up your game and look at it as a challenge to beat him with no holding back.

 Stormwall wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

 Stormwall wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
If he wants to play the most amazing lists, let him. People will either play him or not; as a friend, the only time you should consider intervening is if he starts being rude or a poor sport. Even then it sounds like he's an adult which means there's little you can do.

If you don't want to play him, don't. That doesn't mean you get to go around telling people not to play him, you're not his parent or his conscience. Talking to HIM about it is about the only thing you can do.

So you're suggesting that I ignore him until no one wants to play him anymore?
BTW he's the same age as most of us at the gaming club(he's not an adult)

Is anyone an adult at your club?

Shock and horror! A demographic that does not consist entirely of 20/30 something year old man-children are playing the game, panic!

There are many games clubs based at schools and colleges, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that there are some younger players on dakka. It is better to guide and advise them, rather than belittle them for having less birthdays than you.

Nice way to get confrontational over nothing. I was curious if there is an adult at the FGLS/Club to lay down the law and set ground rules, or to give guidance. Sorry that the way it was presented that it looks like to a stranger that this is just petty highschool drama. Shocker, I know!

I am going to assume no, since he's here on a forum asking strangers to give him advice. More Shock and Horror! Such plot twist!

Sorry if I misunderstood you. Posting "is anyone an adult at your club" comes across to me as questioning the age and maturity of the OP, rather than being constructive. Mentioning why you were asking the question would have helped.

Understandable, my bad.

Tell him nobody wants to play against a dick. Remind him how he felt when he got whooped because people power played against him, that he felt it one time as a "lesson", and that's how people already felt playing against him. Then tell him you won't help him screw over casual players, and until he gets out of that mindset, you don't want to play against him either. He'll either learn or move on. But you aren't responsible for him being an adult. Club leader doesn't mean "club punching bag". You're there to have fun.

I was going to suggest that you could remind him that the trouble with clubbing baby seals is that you run out of seals sooner rather than later.

But it looks like there are other issues going on complicating the issue and Steelmage99 is addressing that very well.

I'm really curious about what makes someone consciously choose to be "That Guy"?

Honestly, I would just approach him by asking Why? repeatedly, because you generally want to know the answer to the question.

Steelmage99 wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:


Here goes:
Hey ****, I know that you felt bad because you were beaten but I feel worse for not coming to talk to you in person before the whole scenario escalated to that point. I'd like you to know that when we had that game on your first week back that it was fun and we there was no need for min-maxing of army lists that using the stuff we had painted and modelled most recently was quite interesting and added variety to what is usually added to what you use to take. I would like that if you could avoid using the competetive mindset when writing lists and playing games as it takes away from the enjoyment for your opponent, and thrashing people repetitively may seem fun initially but it really starts to give a guilty feeling and no one will want to give you games.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

Good effort. Let's see what we can do with it.

"I know that you felt bad because you were beaten but I feel worse for not coming to talk to you in person before the whole scenario escalated to that point."
"and thrashing people repetitively may seem fun initially but it really starts to give a guilty feeling "

Here you are guessing at why he is doing what he is doing, ie guessing about his emotions. Psychologists and psychiatrists only do this after many years of education....and even they get it wrong sometimes. You and I should stick to our own feelings.

" I would like that if you could avoid using the competetive mindset when writing lists"
" and we there was no need for min-maxing of army lists "

No blame is to be assigned. You might (correctly) think that he is to blame, but mentioning that or starting from that point ends a conversation faster than anything (except perhaps a punch to throat....that'll stop a conversation real quick ). A constructive conversation needs to focus on matching our expectations and finding a solution.

"as it takes away from the enjoyment for your opponent"
"no one will want to give you games"

We cannot speak on behalf of others. Not Dakka, not the Internet and not his future opponents.

Let's have a look at how a different conversation could start.

Hey ***. I am sorry that I didn't talk to you in person before the whole scenario escalated to that point. I'd like you to know that I had a lot of fun when we had that game on your first week.
I really enjoyed how our armies slowly grew as we painted and modelled, and how our armies were varied and fun.
I prefer to play my games in a more relaxed atmosphere. Just having fun and shooting the gak. I would like it very much if we could return to that/play like that.
I wouldn't really enjoy our games as much if it was all about "kicking butt and taking names" at all, and I don't know a lot who would in this store"

After having said this, you need to shut up. Sit/stand in front of him, smile a tiny bit (so you present a friendly face), and.....say.....nothing. Just wait.
When he begins to speak (and he will. Just give it time) listen to what he says, and nod when he makes a poi"nt. Allow him to finish.
If he says something that you think is unfair or untrue, just suck it up and nod.
If you think he is done......just wait a few more seconds. He might have a bit more to say after catching his breath.


If he says something you like, you smile a bit more and nod emphatically.
If he says something you don't like, you smile a bit less and nod slowly while looking down.

He might go really defensive, and make counter-accusations or complaints. Just nod. This could be frustration that he needs to get off his chest. Just let him do that and nod.
His actual response might come after this. So just let him vent if necessary.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where the conversation goes from there I cannot possibly predict.
Know this. No matter the outcome, you have presented your case in a reasonable and adult manner.

Just keep the following in mind;
- Don't start with "you", and I don't just mean the actual construction of the sentence. I mean the message must be about the "I", not the "you". (You make me feel sad when you do X, rather I feel sad when you do X)
- No blaming (what has happened is in the past. The future consists of solutions)
- Do not guess at his motivations/feelings (Just don't. Stick to what you know....and that is your own feelings)

Hope it helps.

Thanks heaps for the reply, I will certainly give it a shot, I will reply with his response when I get a chance to talk to him


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormwall wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

 Stormwall wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
If he wants to play the most amazing lists, let him. People will either play him or not; as a friend, the only time you should consider intervening is if he starts being rude or a poor sport. Even then it sounds like he's an adult which means there's little you can do.

If you don't want to play him, don't. That doesn't mean you get to go around telling people not to play him, you're not his parent or his conscience. Talking to HIM about it is about the only thing you can do.

So you're suggesting that I ignore him until no one wants to play him anymore?
BTW he's the same age as most of us at the gaming club(he's not an adult)

Is anyone an adult at your club?

Shock and horror! A demographic that does not consist entirely of 20/30 something year old man-children are playing the game, panic!

There are many games clubs based at schools and colleges, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that there are some younger players on dakka. It is better to guide and advise them, rather than belittle them for having less birthdays than you.

Nice way to get confrontational over nothing. I was curious if there is an adult at the FGLS/Club to lay down the law and set ground rules, or to give guidance. Sorry that the way it was presented that it looks like to a stranger that this is just petty highschool drama. Shocker, I know!

I am going to assume no, since he's here on a forum asking strangers to give him advice. More Shock and Horror! Such plot twist!

This here is exactly why I never mention age, while first some considered it a legitmate issue now it's just "petty high school drama" . Yes there is actually three adults at our club but they're not regulars due to work. I ask them about it but they said they'd rather not be involved.

So I figured that if the 'mature adults' at our club wouldn't be I'd asked the community at dakka since Ive been a member for a while that I'd be fine for some of the users to become the third party

Dale Carnegie wrote How to Win Friends and Influence People. He says the following:

Be a Leader: How to Change People Without Giving Offense or Arousing Resentment

A leader's job often includes changing your people's attitudes and behavior. Some suggestions to accomplish this:

1.Begin with praise and honest appreciation.

2.Call attention to people's mistakes indirectly.

3.Talk about your own mistakes before criticizing the other person.

4.Ask questions instead of giving direct orders.

5.Let the other person save face.

6.Praise the slightest improvement and praise every improvement. Be "hearty in your approbation and lavish in your praise.

7.Give the other person a fine reputation to live up to.

8.Use encouragement. Make the fault seem easy to correct.

9.Make the other person happy about doing the thing you suggest.

Just told him, his reply was a bit... unimpressive. it was " yeah ok, I'll think about it"(walks off)
I must of done something wrong but we'll see when the when the weekend comes along

OK. You have told him how you feel and what the situation is like. Noting more you can do right now.



-----

 hiveof_chimera wrote:
Just told him, his reply was a bit... unimpressive. it was " yeah ok, I'll think about it"(walks off)
I must of done something wrong but we'll see when the when the weekend comes along

You didn't necessarily do anything wrong. Both people have to be willing to engage in dialogue for conflict to become productive. If one of the people is not willing, nothing can be done. Ultimately now that you've communicated...It's just amatter of not playing him if he's going to be a douche bag.

 hiveof_chimera wrote:
Just told him, his reply was a bit... unimpressive. it was " yeah ok, I'll think about it"(walks off)
I must of done something wrong but we'll see when the when the weekend comes along

Sounds like you asked him to prom

 hiveof_chimera wrote:
Just told him, his reply was a bit... unimpressive. it was " yeah ok, I'll think about it"(walks off)
I must of done something wrong but we'll see when the when the weekend comes along

You've aired your concerns in a manner that you feel is appropriate, now it's his turn to decide if they're going to influence his play style. You might want to just assume that he's going to play the way he wants to, so that if he does change his mind, you're pleasantly surprised.

Also, good on you for talking to him rather than going about it the asinine way that so many others mentioned.

 Swan-of-War wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:
Just told him, his reply was a bit... unimpressive. it was " yeah ok, I'll think about it"(walks off)
I must of done something wrong but we'll see when the when the weekend comes along

Sounds like you asked him to prom

Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW on a more serious note, you guys reckon it's just the waiting game now?

 hiveof_chimera wrote:
Just told him, his reply was a bit... unimpressive. it was " yeah ok, I'll think about it"(walks off)
I must of done something wrong but we'll see when the when the weekend comes along

Prepare the netlist? Damn the torpedoes?

Now we playing the waiting game....



this is boring. Let's play 40K Spamlists instead!

 Frankenberry wrote:
If he wants to play the most amazing lists, let him. People will either play him or not; as a friend, the only time you should consider intervening is if he starts being rude or a poor sport. Even then it sounds like he's an adult which means there's little you can do.

If you don't want to play him, don't. That doesn't mean you get to go around telling people not to play him, you're not his parent or his conscience. Talking to HIM about it is about the only thing you can do.

This. You can't tell people how they want to play. But you don't have to play with him if you don't enjoy his style of play.

I hate people who demand club owners or FLGS owners kick people out of a store just because they play to competitive. Or go behind a players back telling others not to play a gist him or her.

You only kick someone out if they are rude.

You make your own choices of who you play with.

How to troll TFGs:

-Recommend really gakky units to them, while whining about how OP or broken they are.

-Play broken lists against them.

-List tailor to them, for example against Orks use Wyvern Spam.

-Roll everything one die at a time.

-At 1000 points, bring a Transcendent C'Tan. No matter ehat army you play.

-Unbound all Riptide/Flyer/Baneblade/Serpent list

Everything you need to know is in this thread.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/571387.page

In short: THAT GUYs kill gaming communities, it's impossible to be friends with them, and people start to suspect them of all sorts of awful stuff.

 plastictrees wrote:
"James...after much deliberation I have decided to become a huge tool. This will be a pervasive change that will be delicately woven throughout every aspect of my life.
Naturally I will require your assistance to be as big of a tool as I have envisioned. Will you do this for me James? Will you help me realise my dream?"

I'm hoping that this is a rough transcript of the conversation.

Have an exalt and a tip of the hat fine sir