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Looking for advice on how to handle a 6 Heldrake list.

This is not something I would normally want to ask about, but there's a guy who recently started coming to my FLGS and is running a CSM list that features 6 heldrakes, Typhus, and 6 large blobs of plague zombies (2000+ points, double FOC). He's there's at least 3 nights of the week, he's winning every game he plays, and other players are starting to refuse to play CSM armies (calling them OP and cheesy.)

I talked to him a couple days ago. He doesn't see what the problem is b/c his list is legal, he purchased all the models at the store, and it's not his fault for winning. I agree with that logic right to the point where it stops being fun for others, which is something I can't seem to get across. Definitely a very special personality.

I think the reason he is winning so many games is because of a tactics gap, but I have no clue how to fight a list like this with other armies. I would like to at least give other players advice on what to do when they face him.

How would you deal with a 6 Heldrake list in games between 2k and 3,500 points? About 30% of the people at my FLGS are play Tau, and I know a lot of people who are planning to buy Tyranid armies once the new Codex comes out. The other major armies people play are Eldar, Necrons, Space Marines, IG and Orks.

Cheese can only really be killed with cheese. Screamerstars, flying circus, O'vesa stars, wave serpents, Jetseer councils.

Terminators, then lul.

Really they are weak against 2+ armor save only because they let them have there armor saves.

6 Drakes means that he plays double FoC, refuse to play double FoC, its only optional so he can't enforce it to you, so with only 3 Drakes its more manageable, even if it is still problematic.

Play Termies, the AP3 flamer won't do much more on 2+ armors.

SM guys can take Tantalus or Tartaros, can't really rmember, AA gunsentries from FW.

SW player of ours plays 3 per HS slot for a totla of 9.

SM can take Hydras to take care of them, with Stormtalons and Vendettas.

Also in a objectif hold scenario try to blast the zombies, once he is out of troups he can't take those, even if neither you due to the drakes flamers but hey...

6Drakes will also restrict a bit where he can put them on the table, try to simply cancel areas with your units, so that he can't VS past them.

If you play Deamons, use a flying circus list, you can VS him and use your shootings, while he with his flamers can't scratch you.

Taus should use and abuse of their AA upgrade on Broadsides with missiles and Riptides with a Novaed Burst cannon, 12 S8 shots, thats something nasty.

SM can also invest in Hunter/stalker tanks, Crons have the Scyths and flying bakery, and can Gauss them to death.

Thats the few things that comes up my head.

Good points about the Terminators and the stars.

We CSM / Daemon players don't really like to play each other, so no screamerstars or fighting fire with fire.

Also, his list has about 120 plague zombies. Part of the problem is that it's really hard to kill all of them, and the Heldrakes wreck their opposition pretty quickly.

Four piece vengeance battery with Icarus pattern, quad-linked lascannons (300 pts). That is 8 Str9 AP2 BS2 TL Skyfire/Interceptor. Add in some reserves manipulation and a bit more skyfire and he will be sorry.

Or Tau Firebase Support Cadre; max broadsides with EWO and VT on all the suits can effectively remove his ability to even play the game. Depends on the list though as not all armies can ally with Tau.

I would just talk to him and explain in clear terms that this is a GAME and in a game both players should have FUN. Therefore his list which diminishes other's fun is not in the spirit of this being a game. Logically he should change his list or be prepared to not play the game with others...which does he prefer?

Helldrakes excel at killing troops. They are mediocre at anything else. 6 Riptides with Skyfire, multiple Sky Rays. Flyers counter flyers. Use Stormravens, etc... Nids will have a harder time of it. I would say try to go second and DS your Flyrants onto the board behind the Drakes when they come on. The important thing is to reserve the troops they kill to limit their damage.

Omg, is his name dailymiddleborro?

Tell him he should play with the big boys in a tourney.

Just play cron air n zap him out of the air with scythes

 ansacs wrote:
I would just talk to him and explain in clear terms that this is a GAME and in a game both players should have FUN. Therefore his list which diminishes other's fun is not in the spirit of this being a game. Logically he should change his list or be prepared to not play the game with others...which does he prefer?

Yeah, I have talked to him. The player just has one of those personalities and doesn't get it. The owner of the FLGS and I both feel a little sorry for him, he's not making any friends and just seems to be there to run his 6 Heldrakes.

Well then. That is unpleasant. I would recommend perhaps pooling the players money and buying 4 vengeance battery with Icarus pattern, quad-linked lascannons or converting some. Keep them in the club and each person can throw them into their list when ever they play this person. Each turn the first helldrake that comes on will have a ~50% chance to be exploded for coming on and cannot even scratch the building in return. You can improve them with an upgrade (all the rules are in stronghold assault) but it may not be necessary.

Run a Sang Guard Spam! You will butcher his zombies! Probably the only list I would competitively take The Sanguinor against (goina need those +1 attacks against a zombie horde).
Land raider redeemer/crusader spam.
Assault centurions with tl flamers and hurricanes will also do a number on them. Take 3 squads!
Serp spam with NOTHING outside the serps.
6 Annihilation barges with everything else in nightscythes.
Riptides.
Heavy MC spam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(First 3 lists just ignore the drakes)

Honestly, I'd just stop playing him. Explain that no one enjoys the games where he spams that much stuff. If he does not agree, tell him you refuse to play because it is not fun at all. If he doesn't like that, sucks for him. If he rages that he bought the stuff and can play what he wants if it is legal, you can acknowledge that he did, but remind him that so did you, and you can play WHO you want. You need the rest of the club to get on board too, however, or at least large chunks.

I don't know how plague zombies do against LRs, but I might also suggest LR Redeemers or Crusaders, filled with terminators. Just have one person make a list that he's going to hate to play against, and only play that person and list against him.

I thought you could only have one plague zombie squad. According to typhus rules.

Deathwing in Redeemers. There's literally nothing the Plague Zombies and Drakes can do about that.

Seriously. I'm sure typhus rule says you may nominate ONE squad of cultists as plague zombies.

"Any Chaos Cultist units in the same army as Typhus can be nominated as Plague Zombies"
unless its FAQed

H'mm..I'll have too check when I get home.my codex might be updated since it's the chaos collection.

Tau currently have some of the best AA in the game. Just kit some broadsides out with skyfire and railrifles and you should be able to bring those drakes down with very little return fire to pressure you. Remember, you need to fight spam with spam.

Use your massed tau str 5/6/7 fire to focus on the zombies. You won't kill them all but your aim is to at least wipe a squad or 2 out to stop them getting an objective.

If you have access to psychic powers, try and get terrify. Get that on a zombie squad to get them off an objective, get them off the board, or to sweeping advance them.

Edit: And no, his list is legit. Any cultist squad can be upgraded to zombies. (Edit 2: sorry I should have said nominated, rather than upgraded, as it costs no points).

Just don't play the guy. I wouldn't play against a list like that. Or tell him to grow up and learn have fun.

Got another one: DA DW Landraider Spam

HQ
Belial - TH/SS

DW Command Squad - 4x TH/S, 1x HF/CF, Standard of Devestation

Techmarine - Bike, PFG

TROOPS
Deathwing Squad - 4x TH/S, 1x HF/CF
Deathwing Squad - 4x TH/S, 1x HF/CF

Dedicated Transports
LRC - MM, Deathwing Vehicle
LRC - MM, Deathwing Vehicle
LRC - MM, Deathwing Vehicle

2000pts

This is a win big/lose big list I like to play.
Not fully optimized to fight the list you posted, however very effective due to AV14, 2+ saves and 72 TL bolter shots a turn. If it was optimized then you could of course remove the techmarine, DW vehicle, the 3 Chainfists and all the TH/SS, this would give you another 265 points to play with. This would get you another LRC, or 2 lvl 2 librarians to try and get terrify.

Opens up so many doors for my nurgle portion of my army.

That guy sounds like a tool. Feel free to tell him everyone on the internet thinks he's a doosh.

If that doesn't work, try these units for killing Turkeys:
-Riptides with HBC, TLFB, VT, and EWO
-Broadsides with HYMP and VT
-Annihilation Barges
-Night Scythe
-Stormravens with MM + LC/AC
-Wave Serpents with SL

Massed s6 fire is great at killing Zombies as it negates FNP, Wave Serpents work best, as do Annihilation Barges. Or just mass basic fire, though your troopers will need to hide in transports until the Turkey Hunt has progressed a little. Also, s6 templates. With 6 Turkeys and 120 Zombies, he isn't going to have room to spread out. Heavy Incinerators, Flamestorm Cannons, Hellhounds, ThunderFire Cannons, etc.

Also, take advantage of his mass bodies/fliers to predict flight paths and force your opponent into poor maneuvers.

Terrify is great for running down entire blocks of Zombies.

Well placed 2+ save characters can work wonders for protecting squads from Turkeys.

In general, the Chaos player will likely run into problems dealing with anything AV13 or higher. Just make sure those units are also contributing to the fight. A GK Land Raider Crusader with Psybolt Ammo comes to mind.

Hope these tips help!

That's a good idea hippo

6 vendettas.

how many points do you even need to use 6 helldrakes

170pts x6=1020pts

Stalkers, Hunters, other flyers,the quad-linked lascannon stonghold, playing sub-2000 point games... these are all solutions.

Stalkers. great anti aircraft tanks

I really don't think you or anyone else should spend money and effort trying to tailor a list to beat this. Double FOC is by no means the standard format for game-store-level 40k. This guy made a 2000 point list, so he could bring 6 Helldrakes and a ton of zombies, which is a completely backwards approach to the game.

Don't play him at 2000 points. Other people may continue to give him games; that's their choice. In the spirit of sportsmanship, challenge him to some lower-points games and see if he's still willing to play. If he's not, just play other people. No sweat.

Otherwise, you're gonna spend a lot of headspace and a lot of money trying to win against someone who clearly has an antisocial approach to the hobby.

U're talking like helldrakes are so good there's no point playing vs them. There are lots of counters vs drakes. I'm thinking of a build that can handle this army hands down. Ig platoon with inquisitor and tigurius. They get a free 6' redeployment forward. They're likely to get 4++ and they'll kill everything in mellee. If you spread them - each drake is gona kill like 4 guardsmen per turn. U got 50. And that's just 350 pts for 50 of them. U might get 50 more or 50 conscripts with a comissar for 200+85 for comissar wirth pf. That's like 800 pts that's gona beat his 2k dragon list Until you get REALLY not lucky and he kills u'r inquisitor with a 2+ los and 4++. Even so u'll just have no grenades but will still be able to kill any zombies (though i'm sure he can take only 1 squad of zombies). On the leftover points you can have whatever you want.
That's just an example how 6 drakes with nothing more than zombies can be easilly countered. Just think something up and proxy a few models. Nothing terrifying is gona happen.