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Not everyone. I find their rules uninteresting and prefer my models to be, y'know, MODELS rather than counters to define footprint size. You may as well play KoW with pieces of cardboard cut to appropriate size. I already own plenty of games that do the same thing better and more interestingly and are self contained.
You could do that with every single miniature game that I know of. Just cut the cardboard to the size of the appropriate base, and voilá, instant "models" for every single miniature game in existence.
Except that WHFB uses TLOS and thus can't be done with chits. You'd need cardboard standees at least. Also, individual cardboard bases would be exceedingly fiddly vs KoW's set units that never shrink.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/04/06 16:35:13
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Not everyone. I find their rules uninteresting and prefer my models to be, y'know, MODELS rather than counters to define footprint size. You may as well play KoW with pieces of cardboard cut to appropriate size. I already own plenty of games that do the same thing better and more interestingly and are self contained.
You could do that with every single miniature game that I know of. Just cut the cardboard to the size of the appropriate base, and voilá, instant "models" for every single miniature game in existence.
Except that WHFB uses TLOS and thus can't be done with chits. You'd need cardboard standees at least. Also, individual cardboard bases would be exceedingly fiddly vs KoW's set units that never shrink.
None of those things prevent the game from being played with cardboard chits.
For starters you just need to record the height of the model you don't need to actually represent it. And the individual cardboard bases could be put inside movement trays just like the real bases are.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: I remain hopeful that 9th edition will be a positive turn for the game. The biggest factor of concern for me is whether GW will address the army size creep of the game and thus render the game more affordable.
Re-basing all of my models would be irritating, but it would not be the end of the world. I'm similarly prepared to accept some models/units disappear. If these things happen without a general reduction in the cost of playing WFB, my desire to address them by paying for more GW product will be pretty much non-existent.
In theory if the game is going to be scaled down you will need a lot less minis so that would make things more accessible for newcomers. In practical therms I see GW alongside with the 9th rising the prices of the boxes and blisters. So you will need less but would have to pay more for it. Win Win for GW.
Is yet to be seen how much GW will reduce the armies and if their skirmish game will actually be able to scale up to massbattles... dont know how many of us will be ok with not using their armies or just using a few regiments with round bases. I can tell you that the game needs to be REALLLY special to capture the momentum here.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/06 16:43:49
None of those things prevent the game from being played with cardboard chits.
For starters you just need to record the height of the model you don't need to actually represent it. And the individual cardboard bases could be put inside movement trays just like the real bases are.
Height, width, and shape are all needed for TLoS, not just height. WHFB doesn't use base area or "magical cylinder" style of LoS.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/06 16:47:53
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
None of those things prevent the game from being played with cardboard chits.
For starters you just need to record the height of the model you don't need to actually represent it. And the individual cardboard bases could be put inside movement trays just like the real bases are.
Height, width, and shape are all needed for TLoS, not just height. WHFB doesn't use base area or "magical cylinder" style of LoS.
In theory it doesn't, but in practice it does since all bits that usually extrude from the base are supposed to be ignored for LOS purposes, so its perfectly fine to use a "cylinder" with the width of the base and the model height to represent said model.
"Cylinders" and "Silhouettes" are what Infinity added for N3...and they are basically the most useless thing added to a new edition of a game, ever.
Agreed.
What does that have to do with anything in this thread though?
To be fair, KoW has nothing to do with this thread either, yet the Mantic players keep bringing it up in every single Warhams thread they can.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
None of those things prevent the game from being played with cardboard chits.
For starters you just need to record the height of the model you don't need to actually represent it. And the individual cardboard bases could be put inside movement trays just like the real bases are.
Height, width, and shape are all needed for TLoS, not just height. WHFB doesn't use base area or "magical cylinder" style of LoS.
In theory it doesn't, but in practice it does since all bits that usually extrude from the base are supposed to be ignored for LOS purposes, so its perfectly fine to use a "cylinder" with the width of the base and the model height to represent said model.
So...
Yeah, that's "what it has to do with anything in this thread".
Trust me. You don't want to start going into cylinders or any such nonsense for anything outside of skirmish games.
I am actually really interested in this. I love skirmish games (currently playing Coreheim), and I also think the last boxed sets have been pretty cool. If they handle it correctly, it could be awesome. Of course, my opinion would be entirely different if I had any WHFB armies (I sold them loooong ago). I can truly understand all the rage, if rumours are true...
By the way, WHFB has been played using paper/cardboard since... well, since forever. Paperhammer is a well established term
Yeah, that's "what it has to do with anything in this thread".
Trust me. You don't want to start going into cylinders or any such nonsense for anything outside of skirmish games.
I still fail to understand what the silhouette introduced by Infinity has to do with that point, but I'll just chalk it down to your propensity to criticize every single little flaw that you find in Infinity while happily ignoring the huge gaping wholes in that other company.
Also, I've seen a pretty big number of WHFB games being played with just the empty bases on movement trays representing whole units (or monstrous creatures, or chariots, or warmachines), so no, I don't see any problem in going into "cylinders and any such nonsense" for non-skirmish games.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: It's occurred to me that GW might do a War of the rings - models with round bases fitting into square shaped move trays for bigger formations. Perhaps new fantasy won't be purely a skirmish game after all...
War of the ring would have been an excellent system to move towards. Lots of great things in that rule set.
I had the same thought when I heard round bases, and share the same sentiment that this could be a decent thing. We've heard rumblings of something along the lines of WotR style units as well: everything in 9E will be able to skirmish for speed/ease of movement, but units may also be capable of ranking up into various formations for benefits that those bring when the time comes. Is a thought, and I like(d) them trays and how they represented unit strength.
Red Viper wrote:I'm interested.
GW makes great models. Their rules can be fun.
I'm not going to get the starter, but I'll be watching. If they keep charging $50+ for rulebooks though, then I'm out.
Spoiler: $50 rulebooks are probably here to stay, thanks especially to the fewer unified factions of 9E. GeeDub learned over 8E that all us accursed veterans only wanted to buy new single heroes/monsters or small monstrous units for our existing armies, and would grudgingly buy updated armybooks as well. From what we're seeing, 9E is shaping up to be collections of single heroes/monsters or small units ... So the fat hardbacks only make sense.
- Salvage
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/06 17:31:54
If the rumours of making the game smaller scale and set in a more steampunk environment are true... I really feel like GW is trying to chase the Warmachine and Hordes crowd. They'd need to have a good ruleset and customer communication more than anything to do that though.
Boss Salvage wrote: Spoiler: $50 rulebooks are probably here to stay, thanks especially to the fewer unified factions of 9E. GeeDub learned over 8E that all us accursed veterans only wanted to buy new single heroes/monsters or small monstrous units for our existing armies, and would grudgingly buy updated armybooks as well. From what we're seeing, 9E is shaping up to be collections of single heroes/monsters or small units ... So the fat hardbacks only make sense.
Probably. A shame.
Maybe they'll at least have the individual rules come with the models like PP does.
Hasn't GW done that with some recent releases? I really don't know. Haven't bought much since the Dark Elf Army book.
Playing: Droids (Legion), Starks (ASOIAF), BB2
Working on: Starks (ASOIAF), Twilight Kin (KoW). Droids (Legion)
You know, I think all the End Times things come with their rules? My Stormfiends did anyway. I also remember hearing that these free rules even come with errors
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the death of Fantasy.
This Bumbleworlds stuff has to go. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Whoever brought this to the table needs to go back to TSR and ask how well it worked out the first time someone tried this shill gimmick for selling stuff.
On another note, How do I sell all this old stuff? I have ... a pretty good selection.
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Ozymandias wrote: Maybe this is all a "New Coke" type marketing scheme. Then, in a couple years, GW rereleases "Warhammer: Classic" and sells millions.
At this point, I think I'd be OK with that...
But if WFB 9E tanks as badly as it appears it might, I think it is gone for good.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: they're going for a 40k style low model count, as the high cost of Fantasy was too prohibitive.
Lol, it's only a "low" model count because they're cramming in physically apoc sized and rules appropriate units into 1000pt+ "normal" games at a previously unheard of cost of $100+ per model. If I want to update my Tau to 7e standards, I need to spend a few hundred to get only a couple models. That's not exactly a non-prohibitive alternative.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/06 19:20:08
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Honestly, with the entry cost of WHFB, rules bloat etc etc. I can understand that GW decided to just straight-up reset the whole setting. I even think this is a good idea, however, I assume that GW will still manage to screw it up royally and thus kill fantasy off completely.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: they're going for a 40k style low model count, as the high cost of Fantasy was too prohibitive.
Lol, it's only a "low" model count because they're cramming in physically apoc sized and rules appropriate units into 1000pt+ "normal" games at a previously unheard of cost of $100+ per model. If I want to update my Tau to 7e standards, I need to spend a few hundred to get only a couple models. That's not exactly a non-prohibitive alternative.
I was referring to the old days of two, ten man squads with an HQ choice, or even the low model count of 2nd edition 40k. Those were the days.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kosake wrote: Honestly, with the entry cost of WHFB, rules bloat etc etc. I can understand that GW decided to just straight-up reset the whole setting. I even think this is a good idea, however, I assume that GW will still manage to screw it up royally and thus kill fantasy off completely.
Far too cynical.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/06 19:52:21
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primalexile wrote: I am excited to see the new model range. I prefer skirmish games myself.
Something tells me Sigmar & Archaon are still alive and will lead their respective factions in "bubbleverse".
Could very well be - along with Lileaths Daughter and maybe the Undead - I sooo want Khalida and Neferata to hold on
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
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"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Called it. If GW go ahead with this Faction-blob round base shenanigan plan then Mantic will just take everyone and giggle. Sure, you can use your existing army and miniatures. We don't mind. And when people want to buy new stuff? They'll buy mantic.
Why would you assume they'll buy Mantic? Is GW going to stop releasing superior models?
Called it. If GW go ahead with this Faction-blob round base shenanigan plan then Mantic will just take everyone and giggle. Sure, you can use your existing army and miniatures. We don't mind. And when people want to buy new stuff? They'll buy mantic.
Why would you assume they'll buy Mantic? Is GW going to stop releasing superior models?
And there you have it.
I feel there's 1 company who could have stood up against GW and they gone. but Mantic no.
If Corvus Belli wanted to I think they could do it but I think there happy with infinity.
Even if there rules are superior having figures that make GW 80s look good is not going to get you anywhere.
I loved flintlok but the models sucked so bad I just couldn't continue.
Stupid auto correct....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/06 21:12:07
Waaagh an' a 'alf
1500 Pts WIP 
