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 PrinceRaven wrote:
Yeah, the basic rules assume you're playing battle box games and battle boxes aren't all equal point values.

Its because Legion and Cryx need all the help they can get.

Hmmm, dissention in the ranks of the most balanced game.....! I have downloaded the app so I will take a look and will look on ebay for the rulebook.

dragonelf wrote:
I take on board the pig feedback. Something to consider later. I have read the basic rules but they don't explain how to build an army. I presume this is in the main rulebook or army books specific to the army you want to collect?

Warnouns are technically 'free'. In fact they come with additional warjack or war beast points in addition to whatever points value you decide to play. Eh butcher has +6 warjack points. What this means is in a 35pt game, you get to field 35pts worth of 'stuff' plus the six warjack points- a total of 41pts. Those wj points can only be spent on butchers battle group jacksthough!

So pick your lock, pick your points value and build an army. The composition is up to you - there is no requirement for x jacks per list, y units or z solos. It can be all jacks, all units or all solos if you so wish.

Please note there is no force org chart but everything has an associated field allowance (fa) value.

Fa:c means character. Like a warlock or a names solo. You can only ever have one of these. In multi list events a 'name' can only be picked once across all your lists.
Fa:u means universal. There is no upper limit to how many you can take, so long as you have the points. Typically jacks are fa:u.
Fa:[number] means this is how many of those units can be fielded in a list per war caster. Iron fangs are fa:3 so you can have 3 squads in a typical game, or up to six in a multi war caster game (but these would be huge games) and widow makers are fa:1 so you'll only ever see a single squad in most armies...

Deadnight: It's Field Allowance.

 welshhoppo wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Yeah, the basic rules assume you're playing battle box games and battle boxes aren't all equal point values.

Its because Legion and Cryx need all the help they can get.

I still don't see why they put Deneghra1 in a battle box.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Yeah, the basic rules assume you're playing battle box games and battle boxes aren't all equal point values.

Its because Legion and Cryx need all the help they can get.

I still don't see why they put Deneghra1 in a battle box.

Would you rather pSkarre or pGaspy?

To be fair, all the prime cryx casters are some of the best in the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dragonelf wrote:
Hmmm, dissention in the ranks of the most balanced game.....! I have downloaded the app so I will take a look and will look on ebay for the rulebook.

I was being slightly sarcastic, both Legion and Cryx are regarded as being the 'best' of each of the games.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Yeah, the basic rules assume you're playing battle box games and battle boxes aren't all equal point values.

Its because Legion and Cryx need all the help they can get.

I still don't see why they put Deneghra1 in a battle box.

Hangover from mk1. Back then, sorscha1 and vlad2 were the most broken casters in the game. Denny was an 'also ran'...

I miss the era of vlad2 and the flying drakhun..,

Deadnight wrote:
Hangover from mk1. Back then, sorscha1 and vlad2 were the most broken casters in the game. Denny was an 'also ran'...

I miss the era of vlad2 and the flying drakhun..,

It's more that her feat is a lot of stuff to keep track of for a new player, and heavy denial can be very unfun to deal with.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

Deadnight wrote:
Hangover from mk1. Back then, sorscha1 and vlad2 were the most broken casters in the game. Denny was an 'also ran'...

I miss the era of vlad2 and the flying drakhun..,

It's more that her feat is a lot of stuff to keep track of for a new player, and heavy denial can be very unfun to deal with.

No argument here. She is a little ott at the battle box level but at the full game, though annoying she is fine.

No mention of Convergence of Cyriss?
Not a beginner faction, sure, but not impossible. They were my beginner faction.
But, alas, they are a smaller faction with fewer updates. So, that might put some people off.
But they are the faction that runs the most jacks. If you face them, you should be aware of their tricks.
Think of them as machine worshiping Lovecraftian cultists.

 MWHistorian wrote:
No mention of Convergence of Cyriss?
They're machine worshiping Lovecraftian cultists.

Waiting for you to write it up mwh! I love how all the convergence ranges weapons have range bands that are prime numbers - 7", 11", 13" etc

Deadnight wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
No mention of Convergence of Cyriss?
They're machine worshiping Lovecraftian cultists.

Waiting for you to write it up mwh! I love how all the convergence ranges weapons have range bands that are prime numbers - 7", 11", 13" etc

That's part of why I love them, not the prime numbers bit, but the fact that their rules reflect their fluff.
They are a clockwork faction and they play like it. Individually their units are rather sub par, but when you get everything working in proper order, they're amazing.
Example in one battle last week.
I ran a little drone up to flair (-2 def) the enemy warcaster. (pDenny, she's got high defense that my normal dudes find it hard to actually hit.) I flair her, then because she's easier (possible) to hit, I knock her down with a bolo launcher dude. Then another drone that sucks with hitting hits her (because she's knocked down) and gives me a +2 to any damage I do to her. So then I wade in with Iron Mother. (Think the robot girl from Metropolis) and proceed to blast Denny apart with everything she has.
It was brutal, but it was the result of a long string of getting everything just in the right position and order.

Fluff wise, they're a technology based cult. Where do you think Cygnar gets all that cool lightning tech? They have temples everywhere, most of them are secret. They worship a goddes named Cyriss, a far off planet. (It's weird Lovecraft stuff with strange whisperings from the stars.) They get messages from the goddess by reading inconsistencies in a huge calculating machine. Cyriss wants them to harmonize all the ley lines on the planet to create a harmonic perfection so that Cyriss may come down and inhabit this world and turn it into a clock work paradise.
So, they sneak out of their hidden temples and go set up towers to harmonize the ley lines. It's a shame that many of these points are occupied by enemy groups. So, they gotta roll in with their vectors and infantry that are clockwork bodies with human souls and take the place by force.

Part of the process for me is acclimatising to the warmachine look. Its models and artwork have a very different style to warhammer which is growing on me.

Skorne has the model collection that i like the look of, but other factions are growing on me as I have gotten used to the styling.Legion are starting to look very appealing, as well as Menoth.

I think it will be a slow process of practice games and seeing which faction best fits my playstyle. Battle college seems like a very good resource!

Battlecollege is a good place to go and get a rough rundown of what a model does. Just don't take any of the tactical recommendations to heart as its a wiki. Its more of a "I wonder what that model does" than "How do I use this model effectively".

My observation from the overview I have seen of the armies is that they are have a specific overarching style. What I like is armies that participate in all phases of the game. I appreciate that WMH is a melee game in principle, but I do enjoy all phases, movement, shooting as well as combat. But visually I am most drawn to Skorne, but they seem fairly one dimensional. I also like Legions but their models are slightly over fussy for my tastes, not all, but some.

I have made contact with a local playing group and I hope to try some demo games soon!

Thats not entirely true.

Every army has something they are slightly better at, but every army can participate in every "phase" if you build them to.

The main factions are all incredibly deep as far as options go.


Skorne is melee centric, but they have many very competitive shooting options too. Especially once the new Bug heavy beasts are released. They have Incindiarii, the Cannoneer, the Mammoth, the Drake, and once its released they'll have the Aradus Sentinel. So you will see shooty(relatively speaking) Skorne lists in the future.

That said, you can almost never win the game on shooting alone. Shooting is for softening up before finishing in melee generally. Some factions, like Legion, can bring enough firepower to, if they roll decently and build for it, shoot enough stuff off the table to make it their primary avenue for victory. But generally every faction has multiple options for building a list.

Most lists will have some of everything, but skews also exist.



To give an example of a list that doesn't have a ton of guns, but is both shooty and melee focused and plays to faction strengths. This is a typical Menoth pKreoss Pop'n'drop list.

pKreoss
-Reckoner
-Vanquisher/2nd Reckoner
-Redeemer
-Heirophant

2 vassals
choir of Menoth
Errants with UA
Zealots with UA
Taryn
Wracks

This is the general template for this type of list, with many minor variants on it.

This list plays into Menoth's strengths, which is support and attrition, but it also has a very potent ranged assassination game. pkreoss feats, knocking everything down. Then the jacks shoot the enemy warcaster with a lot of high pow shooting, much of it boosted damage.

However, if this isn't an option, the list can easily default back to being a general attrition list. All of the jacks above have good melee in addition to their shooting. Its not shut down if the feat can't knock the enemy warcaster down because of Steady or some other knockdown immunity. Most lists will be like this in this respect.

what does the little 'p' mean in front of the warcaster's name mean? I have seen people write this before.

dragonelf wrote:
what does the little 'p' mean in front of the warcaster's name mean? I have seen people write this before.

Prime.

You will note that with some casters, they have multiple versions. 2 sorschas. 3 vlads. 3 butchers. These represent that same character, only at different points in their story.

The original version or sorscha for example is usually referred to as prime sorscha, p sorscha or sorscha1, while her second version is epic sorscha. PP prefer to use a numbered suffix, but prime and epic are relics of the early days of warmachine where only a handful of casters from the prime book had second versions that were 'epic'. Prime referred to the sorscha from the warmachine prime book, obviously.The nomenclature stuck.

Most armies work best as combined arms. They may be melee heavy or range heavy but usually you will need both at some point.

And I second that battlecollege is to be taken with a grain of salt. Some of the info is good, but some of it hadn't been updated in awhile and is either bad advice or out of date.

dragonelf wrote:
what does the little 'p' mean in front of the warcaster's name mean? I have seen people write this before.

As was already covered, some character have multiple versions.

Each version has its own rules and represents that character at a different point in the story. All versions are equally valid to use, have different models, etc... There are no further rules pertaining to them other than you can't have multiple versions of the same character in the same list. Most commonly, warcaster have multiple versions but there are a few solos that are also like this. So in a 2 Caster game you couldn't run both versions of Sorscha for example.

Most commonly, a warcaster goes "epic" when something big happens in the story. pKreoss became eKreoss when he got promoted to Grand Exemplar, amid a big massacre and death of the former Grand Exemplar. pHaley became Haley2 when she killed her sister and got her arm cutoff. Morvhanna got epic because... she hopped on a goat. Zaal went epic because he died.

 Grey Templar wrote:

dragonelf wrote:
what does the little 'p' mean in front of the warcaster's name mean? I have seen people write this before.

As was already covered, some character have multiple versions.

Each version has its own rules and represents that character at a different point in the story. All versions are equally valid to use, have different models, etc... There are no further rules pertaining to them other than you can't have multiple versions of the same character in the same list. Most commonly, warcaster have multiple versions but there are a few solos that are also like this. So in a 2 Caster game you couldn't run both versions of Sorscha for example.

Most commonly, a warcaster goes "epic" when something big happens in the story. pKreoss became eKreoss when he got promoted to Grand Exemplar, amid a big massacre and death of the former Grand Exemplar. pHaley became Haley2 when she killed her sister and got her arm cutoff. Morvhanna got epic because... she hopped on a goat. Zaal went epic because he died.

Also, small thing to add to this is, they aren't always written out in the same way. Take Nemo for example. There is Nemo1, or pNemo, Nemo2 or eNemo, and Nemo3, or as I've seen it written out a couple times, N3mo.

Related question actually, is the third Haley just Haley3? Or is anyone using Hal3y? Or is it too early to tell?

Deadnight. Not going to lie, that write up was pretty spot on! That should be posted somewhere in an intro thread as a sticky! That is a great post to refer new players too. Man, I was going to write up something about the factions until I saw that... And I am all about that axe to face mentality!

This is a game where I found it best to pick your the faction with your favorite models, and develop your play style based off a Warcaster or Warlock that piques your fancy. Most of my friends find it funny that I play Khador, because in my miniature games I like to play a ranged heavy game.

But, the look of Khador's infantry sold me on that faction.

Pick what looks the best to you, and most factions except for the Mercenary/Minion factions have such a healthy mix of different ways to play that it is hard to find something that doesn't fit your style. This is a game that I have found to be more about player skill than list composition. Yes, there are some obvious choices that will benefit you, but for the most part it is about what finding what works for you. Sometimes what people call "junk" is just what you need in your list.

I do suggest picking up a Battlegroup and just learning, most of those boxes don't really give the best idea of how a faction plays, but shoot, for $50 for the box, $30 for the rulebook and a couple bucks for a handful of D6 if you just don't happen to have any laying around. It is a pretty cheap way to kill some time, learn a new game, and expand your gaming horizons. And, $80 is still cheaper than going on a bender at your favorite bar. You never know, you could love the game like myself, and every other person I have taught how to play does.

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

dragonelf wrote:
what does the little 'p' mean in front of the warcaster's name mean? I have seen people write this before.

As was already covered, some character have multiple versions.

Each version has its own rules and represents that character at a different point in the story. All versions are equally valid to use, have different models, etc... There are no further rules pertaining to them other than you can't have multiple versions of the same character in the same list. Most commonly, warcaster have multiple versions but there are a few solos that are also like this. So in a 2 Caster game you couldn't run both versions of Sorscha for example.

Most commonly, a warcaster goes "epic" when something big happens in the story. pKreoss became eKreoss when he got promoted to Grand Exemplar, amid a big massacre and death of the former Grand Exemplar. pHaley became Haley2 when she killed her sister and got her arm cutoff. Morvhanna got epic because... she hopped on a goat. Zaal went epic because he died.

Also, small thing to add to this is, they aren't always written out in the same way. Take Nemo for example. There is Nemo1, or pNemo, Nemo2 or eNemo, and Nemo3, or as I've seen it written out a couple times, N3mo.

Related question actually, is the third Haley just Haley3? Or is anyone using Hal3y? Or is it too early to tell?

Anything that gets the point across really.

I would also say that, and this isn't meant as a disparaging remark to fans of other systems, but WMH players seem very receptive to new players. I got immediate responses to this post and I have visited the idea of starting WMH before and the same thing was true. There seems to be an enthusiasm to encourage new players into the game which I am pretty sure reflects the spirit of the company engaging its community as much as possible.

I have spent the last few days reading the rules and I am really excited. I loved page 5 but still getting my head around the rules.

As you all keep saying, and I would agree, with any wargame, you have to like looking at the army that you put on the table, enjoy painting it, etc. I really like the skorne models so I think I am going to start there, but I have no idea which warlock to choose so I am just going to have a few practice games with like minded friends and then get the models that I like.

If I like the game I will probably get a warmachine faction as well because I like the warjack models, and the cygnar have grown on me. I don't like the blue so much, but I can paint them whichever colour I like.

Anyhow, thanks so much for the advice and I welcome any further suggestions.

Welcome in the game

Wow deadnight I think I am going to keep that intro somewhere for anyone asking about the factions

You mentioned CoC but not the Mercenaries, but I admit they are hard to summarise.

XC18 wrote:
Welcome in the game

Wow deadnight I think I am going to keep that intro somewhere for anyone asking about the factions

You mentioned CoC but not the Mercenaries, but I admit they are hard to summarise.

I'll write something up. Cephalyx, dwarves, pirates, la resistance sub factions. And convergence as well. Le sigh

I was chatting to one the local guys playing WM and when I had a chat to him about good armies to start with my playstyle, he was surprised I hadn't mentioned Cryx. I initially discounted them because they reminded me too much of necrons who I absolutely hate in 40k, but on closer inspection they seem to have a bit more of a different feel. Are they a good army for a beginner?

They're fine for a beginner. Cryx does 2 things well. Infantry & Debuffs.

They also have a list type called body & soul that recycles both the body & soul (duh) of things killed into more power / bodies for themselves.

Except for Convergence, Minions and, Mercs any faction makes a good starting place. It all depends on you sense of aesthetics. Chances are you can find your playstyle in any faction it's just that some factions offer more options than others in a particular style.

I was suggesting circle at one stage along skorne and someone on the privateer press forums said that playing those armies as a new player was like starting a new game on hard (skorne) or insane (circle).

I like the challenge of using a new game but I am not sure I want to start it on hard or insane!

Which factions are starting the game on 'normal!'