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 aprilmanha wrote:
Actually correct me if I'm wrong, but when you CRA or CMA, don't you need everyone in the attack to have the same buffs to benefit from it?
So everyone needs to aim or no-one does and everyone needs to charge or no one boosts Damage rolls?

Bonuses and penalties are based off the primary model making the attack roll, only they need to aim to receive the +2 for the CRA. CMAs have an additional rule in that a charge attack requires all the models participating to be making charge attacks.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

Now if you can avoid casting boundless charge or cyclone it works much better as you will have an extra 2 focus for attacks. But even then...

Fun? Yes. Cool to see? Yes Something to count on / go for if you don't need to? No way.

Yes it didn't help that I spent a few months mistaking the Magical weapon symbol for the Weapon Master effect and was learning Sorcha who had 4 dice on the charge >_<

Blaghh this is all so confusing

I was hoping to play Khador since they did not need as much synergy as the Protectorate does, who I was having a hard time getting to grips with

Maybe I should go back to using my Tau to charge people with their pulse rifles

Stick with it man. It's a learning process. Every army needs synergy to work well. Some more than others. WGI are fairly self sufficient, but still having Joe with them helps.

Play games, learn new things. If you're still learning find an opponent who is more willing to teach than stomp face & say "Well that's how you learn"

I personally have no issue walking new players through games & interrupting their turn to point out an obvious error / missed oppourtunity, then let them rethink the move, assuming that is what they want.

I need to drop back down to the 20~25 pts level.
At 35 there is just so many extra combos I can't keep track of them.

I have Joe on order but like I said, will see about building my own figure

To be fair, do it right (charge a target, cyclone away before swinging) and you get 2 "initials" on the caster, with 2 focus left to buy/boost as necessary. And yeah that's with the feat, you wouldn't go for it if you had to pop the feat earlier in the game. Also, I usually run Reinholdt in the list, giving me 3 dice drop 1 on one of those attacks, further upping the chances of doing it with the feat factored in. I wasn't saying it was a sure thing, but I was saying that, against a not-camping caster (as I specified in my initial post) it is definitely doable.

And anyone who told you khador doesn't have synergy was wrong. I'd say they have almost more than Menoth. I find Menoth's to be very straightforwards, "apply choir prayer of choice, feed focus, kill" or "rhupert for tough, book for no kd, errants advance". I find Khador's to be there, but more interesting. Like "eIrusk gives tough bubble to Iron Fangs who don't get KD'd because of the Kovnik who get unjammed by the stuff walking through them then get spelled by Irusk to hit harder and he feats to get them through that forest/over that wall/whatever then they charge and wreck face". I'm sure Menoth has similar stuff but once you get into Khador, if you want to, you can have just as much fun setting up synergy lists and what not as any other army

You also said 19" away. I did those calcs assuming you were 19" away and would not get the initial charge on the caster. That obviously changes things a lot.

What I think you're trying to do is illegal as:

The charging model’s first attack after ending its charge
movement must target the model it charged.

You can't charge, cyclone, then resolve the charge attack against a different target.

Nono, you run a winterguard/nyss/widowmaker/insert small model here into a charge position 13" from sorscha, then send her cycloning way into the caster after feating having not attacked, but having completed the charge you get to redirect it onto their caster, after taking the cyclone attack. So 2 attacks, first (assuming 8s needed) is 3 dice drop 1, so odds on to hit, then boost damage, then boost to hit the 2nd attack with the feat damage finishing them off/if you got lucky and stationaried you can either buy another attack or boost damage on this one depending on the math. Most average casters die. I didn't mean to make it sound like an always thing, because most people won't always have a caster sitting on no camp like that, but if they have gone all out on a plan that hasn't come off/misjudge your distance, and especially if you have ruin to clear some land for her (and he doesn't need focus because he'll probably have souls this late into the game and you have him positioned right), she can do it.

 motyak wrote:
but having completed the charge you get to redirect it onto their caster,

No you don't:

Pg 47, Paragraph 4, line 1 wrote:
The charging model’s first attack after ending its charge
movement must target the model it charged.

I mean I guess you could loophole it so your first attack is a cyclone attack but the counter is the cyclone attack specifically targets everyone in LoS and range therefore it cannot qualify for that caveat therefore since your first attack MUSt target the charged model, but cyclone attacks CANNOT target the charge model, you cannot make ANY cyclone attacks... but now it's a rules discussion and this is not the thread for that.

Hahaha woops...

Wait no oops, all the rule forums I can find on the PP site are saying you can, you just don't have the boosted damage.

There may be a way to work it but like I said it's very complicated & would likely need an official ruling, or at least more thought than my 6AM brain is capable of lol.

Can you link it? I want to see how they argue it.

The way I read it is cyclone says you CAN not that you MUST make a melee attack against people in range. but Charge says you MUST target the charged model. Therefore I read it as since cyclone does not have a valid target, cyclone attacks do not trigger.

Also unless PP makes an official statement I'd have to call the EO in a tournament. I don't trust what people say on forums, people (including myself) are often wrong.

Your charge attack must target the model you charged, unless it is no longer a legal charge target, in which case you can attack another model in your melee range, but do not get a boosted damage roll if it hits.

Whoops also page 47, my bad.

If the charging model cannot make its first melee attack
against the charge target, the charging model can make its
first melee attack against another eligible target, but this is
not a charge attack. It does not lose its first attack

It's just down at the very bottom of the section below where I thought it'd be.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Your charge attack must target the model you charged, unless it is no longer a legal charge target, in which case you can attack another model in your melee range, but do not get a boosted damage roll if it hits.

Yeah was about to post this. Because there is a step between making a successful charge movement and making the charge attack there are multiple ways to avoid attacking the model you charged when casters are involved. If the model you charge is no longer a valid target for a melee attack you don't lose the attack and are free to redirect your charge attack - this can happen due to movement spells (charge a model, caster Velocity/Energiser to move past it), attack spells (i.e. Arcane Bolt something dead, or cast Flashing Blade before resolving your charge attack) or various defensive spells (Admonition for example, as long as you completed the charge initially you can attack something else).

Note that this comes up for normal units of infantry far more regularly - lets say two Banes Knights charge the same Gun Mage - if the first hits then the second is free to redirect to another valid target within his melee range. Exactly the same rule kicks in with the caster example - it just requires there to be some form of additional rule/attack/spell involved when there is only a single attacking model.

You're talking about Esorscha, the first post has Psorscha.
Much less damage but auto-hits
Still unreliable against tankier 'casters that don't rely on DEF (Butcher, Syntherion, ...)

Missed basically a whole page,Whelp posting before coffee and stuff ...

 aprilmanha wrote:
The only problem I see with using the CRA on his beasts while they eat the one or 2 men they can reach is that if he does manage to not kill one of them and remains engaged I'm more likely to shoot my own guy in the back

Can't CRA into melee anyway.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 aprilmanha wrote:
The only problem I see with using the CRA on his beasts while they eat the one or 2 men they can reach is that if he does manage to not kill one of them and remains engaged I'm more likely to shoot my own guy in the back

Can't CRA into melee anyway.

Unless a rule says you can

Gotta love my houseguard riflemen lol

Dirty Elves haha.