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Why is a Riptide an MC while a Dreadnaught, a refrigerator that's basically one with its driver, a walker? Hell, why is a Soul Grinder a walker?

Why can Space Marines take squadrons of tanks? They are totally ripping on IG Armoured Battle Company. IG are supposed to be the army with all the tanks.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Why is a Riptide an MC while a Dreadnaught, a refrigerator that's basically one with its driver, a walker? Hell, why is a Soul Grinder a walker?

Well, you see, a Soulgrinder is a daemon piloting his robotic legs, so he's a vehicle see? But a Riptide pilot is controlling his suit with sensors and stuff just like how you control your body so he's a monstrous creature. It all makes sense if you think about it.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Why is a Riptide an MC while a Dreadnaught, a refrigerator that's basically one with its driver, a walker? Hell, why is a Soul Grinder a walker?

Well, you see, a Soulgrinder is a daemon piloting his robotic legs, so he's a vehicle see? But a Riptide pilot is controlling his suit with sensors and stuff just like how you control your body so he's a monstrous creature. It all makes sense if you think about it.

Still makes no sense to me.

It wouldn't matter if there wasn't an inherent imbalance between the two unit types. Everything should be hit and damaged the same at the core mechanic level. You can add complexity and nuance after.

 Imateria wrote:
Is there a point to this thread or is it just more random hate to feel like part of the in crowd?

It's been a week or two since the last random hate thread, and apparently there always needs to be at least one on the front page, so...

 Xerics wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
I will agree with anyone who says a Wraithknight should be a walker.

Look at it. It's a walker. Same goes for whatever that Tau walker posing as an MC is.

Just because Monstrous Creatures exist as a category, doesn't mean walkers should be unnaturally placed in the category, when there is a perfectly good Walker category to fill their need. If you want a monster, make a monster model, not a walker.

Especially considering gak like Elder and Tau don't need a stupid"walker-turned- MC" to compete.


So.dumb.

I post this every time someone says the wraithknight should be a walker. The wraithknight is a hybrid. There is a semi pilot who helps the souls bound in the wraithbone be more agile. A wraithknight is simply a larger wraithlord. It can operate without the person inside it but it would just be slower.

Creature: Noun; an animal, as distinct from a human being. please notice that it doesn't say giant robot made out of metal or whatever.

So how about we just call anything that isn't a living thing, that has a pilot of some sort a walker and anything that doesn't have a pilot and is in fact a living creature, a monstrous creature?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Side note: seeing as how terrible the current rules are for walkers I think it would probably be better to just get rid of the "walker" entirely and label anything that is a walker a MC or GMC depending on how big it is and what have you.

Davor wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Why is a Riptide an MC while a Dreadnaught, a refrigerator that's basically one with its driver, a walker? Hell, why is a Soul Grinder a walker?

Well, you see, a Soulgrinder is a daemon piloting his robotic legs, so he's a vehicle see? But a Riptide pilot is controlling his suit with sensors and stuff just like how you control your body so he's a monstrous creature. It all makes sense if you think about it.

Still makes no sense to me.

What? How does that not make sense? When you're controlling your human body don't you use controls and buttons and stuff?

Wait, you mean to tell me you're not a 6" tall alien piloting a robot suit designed as an anatomically accurate facsimile of an adult Homo sapiens? Impossible!

SemperMortis wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
I will agree with anyone who says a Wraithknight should be a walker.

Look at it. It's a walker. Same goes for whatever that Tau walker posing as an MC is.

Just because Monstrous Creatures exist as a category, doesn't mean walkers should be unnaturally placed in the category, when there is a perfectly good Walker category to fill their need. If you want a monster, make a monster model, not a walker.

Especially considering gak like Elder and Tau don't need a stupid"walker-turned- MC" to compete.


So.dumb.

I post this every time someone says the wraithknight should be a walker. The wraithknight is a hybrid. There is a semi pilot who helps the souls bound in the wraithbone be more agile. A wraithknight is simply a larger wraithlord. It can operate without the person inside it but it would just be slower.

Creature: Noun; an animal, as distinct from a human being. please notice that it doesn't say giant robot made out of metal or whatever.

So how about we just call anything that isn't a living thing, that has a pilot of some sort a walker and anything that doesn't have a pilot and is in fact a living creature, a monstrous creature?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Side note: seeing as how terrible the current rules are for walkers I think it would probably be better to just get rid of the "walker" entirely and label anything that is a walker a MC or GMC depending on how big it is and what have you.

Robot: a machine capable of carrying out a complex series of actions automatically, especially one programmable by a computer.
Machine: an apparatus using or applying mechanical power and having several parts, each with a definite function and together performing a particular task.

According to lore the wraithknight is not a machine and therefore not a robot. It is made of wraithbone which is akin to a living substance as it is shaped by the psykers of the Eldar called Bonesingers.

Wraithbone is a psycho-plastic material that is highly resilient to damage, and capable of limited self-repair. It, and the other building materials of the Eldar, will grow and react more like living tissue than the building materials of other races, save for the Tyranids' bio-constructs and Necrodermis, the Necron living metal that is the basis of a majority of the Necron's technology. Wraithbone provides the psychic structure that allows it to become a repository for the spirit of a dead Eldar hero. An Eldar spirit is drawn from the Infinity Circuit of a Craftworld and resides within a Spirit Stone mounted in the construct until such time as its power begins to fade and it can no longer function.

As you can see the wraithknight is more akin to a creature as it can self heal to an extent, it houses a soul of an eldar within the body, and reacts like living tissue.

SemperMortis wrote:
"My model is a MC/GMC because it is "PILOTED" by a soul/person/alien/shenanigan."

So is a stormraven.

Therefore, stormravens should be flying monstrous creatures.

That's how silly the Eldar/Tau argument is.

I will clear this up for all of you.

People complain they have to look through 3 books for all the rules for said model. If they gave each giant model a new listing which spread out threw more books people would complain because money and reasons.

So they gave them a listing thats already there rather then adding a new rule, then people complain because reasons.

Traditio wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
"My model is a MC/GMC because it is "PILOTED" by a soul/person/alien/shenanigan."

So is a stormraven.

Therefore, stormravens should be flying monstrous creatures.

That's how silly the Eldar/Tau argument is.

You should tell that to GW, then. Seems they don't realize how silly it is.

I think it's a sign of a failure in the walker rules.

Traditio wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
"My model is a MC/GMC because it is "PILOTED" by a soul/person/alien/shenanigan."

So is a stormraven.

Therefore, stormravens should be flying monstrous creatures.

That's how silly the Eldar/Tau argument is.

Except that's completely inaccurate. As usual.

I thought the topic would be about how massively undercosted the Wraithknight is, and how overcosted everything except the Flyrant is...

 Xerics wrote:
Robot: a machine capable of carrying out a complex series of actions automatically, especially one programmable by a computer.
Machine: an apparatus using or applying mechanical power and having several parts, each with a definite function and together performing a particular task.

According to lore the wraithknight is not a machine and therefore not a robot. It is made of wraithbone which is akin to a living substance as it is shaped by the psykers of the Eldar called Bonesingers.

Wraithbone is a psycho-plastic material that is highly resilient to damage, and capable of limited self-repair. It, and the other building materials of the Eldar, will grow and react more like living tissue than the building materials of other races, save for the Tyranids' bio-constructs and Necrodermis, the Necron living metal that is the basis of a majority of the Necron's technology. Wraithbone provides the psychic structure that allows it to become a repository for the spirit of a dead Eldar hero. An Eldar spirit is drawn from the Infinity Circuit of a Craftworld and resides within a Spirit Stone mounted in the construct until such time as its power begins to fade and it can no longer function.

As you can see the wraithknight is more akin to a creature as it can self heal to an extent, it houses a soul of an eldar within the body, and reacts like living tissue.

You know what else is made of wraithbone according to lore? Every Eldar vehicle. I guess that means they should all be MCs as well, right? Suddenly, Wave Serpents aren't as bad, because they can only fire two weapons.

Fun thread 10/10, would exalt again.

Look Tau has no defense against their MC/GC. The Stormsurge should be a walker that's open-topped. The Eldar can kind of get away with it fluffwise but it is quite possibly the most undercosted thing in the game.

Tyranids are a joke now because of SM Grav, Eldar everything, and Tau ignore cover.

Don't play people who use those mechanics and you'll have a decent time. I think that covers what was said in the thread from last month.

If WK is a MC/GC so should Dreadnauts

If DK is a MC. Everything should be an MC.

Tau should certainly all be walkers. Surge should be SHW. But Im glad theyre not. Bwahahahaah.

Its all F'd up really.

Wraithknights are a mockery of 40K. They are just too good right now.

 Gunzhard wrote:
Wraithknights are a mockery of 40K. They are just too good right now.

This.

 Xerics wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
I will agree with anyone who says a Wraithknight should be a walker.

Look at it. It's a walker. Same goes for whatever that Tau walker posing as an MC is.

Just because Monstrous Creatures exist as a category, doesn't mean walkers should be unnaturally placed in the category, when there is a perfectly good Walker category to fill their need. If you want a monster, make a monster model, not a walker.

Especially considering gak like Elder and Tau don't need a stupid"walker-turned- MC" to compete.


So.dumb.

I post this every time someone says the wraithknight should be a walker. The wraithknight is a hybrid. There is a semi pilot who helps the souls bound in the wraithbone be more agile. A wraithknight is simply a larger wraithlord. It can operate without the person inside it but it would just be slower.

Creature: Noun; an animal, as distinct from a human being. please notice that it doesn't say giant robot made out of metal or whatever.

So how about we just call anything that isn't a living thing, that has a pilot of some sort a walker and anything that doesn't have a pilot and is in fact a living creature, a monstrous creature?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Side note: seeing as how terrible the current rules are for walkers I think it would probably be better to just get rid of the "walker" entirely and label anything that is a walker a MC or GMC depending on how big it is and what have you.

Robot: a machine capable of carrying out a complex series of actions automatically, especially one programmable by a computer.
Machine: an apparatus using or applying mechanical power and having several parts, each with a definite function and together performing a particular task.

According to lore the wraithknight is not a machine and therefore not a robot. It is made of wraithbone which is akin to a living substance as it is shaped by the psykers of the Eldar called Bonesingers.

Wraithbone is a psycho-plastic material that is highly resilient to damage, and capable of limited self-repair. It, and the other building materials of the Eldar, will grow and react more like living tissue than the building materials of other races, save for the Tyranids' bio-constructs and Necrodermis, the Necron living metal that is the basis of a majority of the Necron's technology. Wraithbone provides the psychic structure that allows it to become a repository for the spirit of a dead Eldar hero. An Eldar spirit is drawn from the Infinity Circuit of a Craftworld and resides within a Spirit Stone mounted in the construct until such time as its power begins to fade and it can no longer function.

As you can see the wraithknight is more akin to a creature as it can self heal to an extent, it houses a soul of an eldar within the body, and reacts like living tissue.

Because it's made out of magic space metal and has on-board AI like assistance that means it's not a giant fighting machine? What?

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
I will agree with anyone who says a Wraithknight should be a walker.

Look at it. It's a walker. Same goes for whatever that Tau walker posing as an MC is.

Just because Monstrous Creatures exist as a category, doesn't mean walkers should be unnaturally placed in the category, when there is a perfectly good Walker category to fill their need. If you want a monster, make a monster model, not a walker.

Especially considering gak like Elder and Tau don't need a stupid"walker-turned- MC" to compete.


So.dumb.

I post this every time someone says the wraithknight should be a walker. The wraithknight is a hybrid. There is a semi pilot who helps the souls bound in the wraithbone be more agile. A wraithknight is simply a larger wraithlord. It can operate without the person inside it but it would just be slower.

Creature: Noun; an animal, as distinct from a human being. please notice that it doesn't say giant robot made out of metal or whatever.

So how about we just call anything that isn't a living thing, that has a pilot of some sort a walker and anything that doesn't have a pilot and is in fact a living creature, a monstrous creature?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Side note: seeing as how terrible the current rules are for walkers I think it would probably be better to just get rid of the "walker" entirely and label anything that is a walker a MC or GMC depending on how big it is and what have you.

Robot: a machine capable of carrying out a complex series of actions automatically, especially one programmable by a computer.
Machine: an apparatus using or applying mechanical power and having several parts, each with a definite function and together performing a particular task.

According to lore the wraithknight is not a machine and therefore not a robot. It is made of wraithbone which is akin to a living substance as it is shaped by the psykers of the Eldar called Bonesingers.

Wraithbone is a psycho-plastic material that is highly resilient to damage, and capable of limited self-repair. It, and the other building materials of the Eldar, will grow and react more like living tissue than the building materials of other races, save for the Tyranids' bio-constructs and Necrodermis, the Necron living metal that is the basis of a majority of the Necron's technology. Wraithbone provides the psychic structure that allows it to become a repository for the spirit of a dead Eldar hero. An Eldar spirit is drawn from the Infinity Circuit of a Craftworld and resides within a Spirit Stone mounted in the construct until such time as its power begins to fade and it can no longer function.

As you can see the wraithknight is more akin to a creature as it can self heal to an extent, it houses a soul of an eldar within the body, and reacts like living tissue.

Because it's made out of magic space metal and has on-board AI like assistance that means it's not a giant fighting machine? What?

Im guessing you failed to read this part.

It, and the other building materials of the Eldar, will grow and react more like living tissue than the building materials of other races, save for the Tyranids' bio-constructs and Necrodermis

 Xerics wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
I will agree with anyone who says a Wraithknight should be a walker.

Look at it. It's a walker. Same goes for whatever that Tau walker posing as an MC is.

Just because Monstrous Creatures exist as a category, doesn't mean walkers should be unnaturally placed in the category, when there is a perfectly good Walker category to fill their need. If you want a monster, make a monster model, not a walker.

Especially considering gak like Elder and Tau don't need a stupid"walker-turned- MC" to compete.


So.dumb.

I post this every time someone says the wraithknight should be a walker. The wraithknight is a hybrid. There is a semi pilot who helps the souls bound in the wraithbone be more agile. A wraithknight is simply a larger wraithlord. It can operate without the person inside it but it would just be slower.

And yet the fusions of Daemons and Machine that are Soulgrinders, Forgefiends and Maulerfiends are...wait for it...Walkers.

The argument that X is a GC/MC because it's powered by a soul or only has a semi-pilot and can thus operate independantly falls down flat on its face when presented with...wait for it...Daemon Engines.

Which have no pilots and even have models that look more like living organisms than Machines.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
I will agree with anyone who says a Wraithknight should be a walker.

Look at it. It's a walker. Same goes for whatever that Tau walker posing as an MC is.

Just because Monstrous Creatures exist as a category, doesn't mean walkers should be unnaturally placed in the category, when there is a perfectly good Walker category to fill their need. If you want a monster, make a monster model, not a walker.

Especially considering gak like Elder and Tau don't need a stupid"walker-turned- MC" to compete.


So.dumb.

I post this every time someone says the wraithknight should be a walker. The wraithknight is a hybrid. There is a semi pilot who helps the souls bound in the wraithbone be more agile. A wraithknight is simply a larger wraithlord. It can operate without the person inside it but it would just be slower.

And yet the fusions of Daemons and Machine that are Soulgrinders, Forgefiends and Maulerfiends are...wait for it...Walkers.

The argument that X is a GC/MC because it's powered by a soul or only has a semi-pilot and can thus operate independantly falls down flat on its face when presented with...wait for it...Daemon Engines.

Which have no pilots and even have models that look more like living organisms than Machines.

Nailed it, any thoughts Xerics?

This argument would be moot if gmcs weren't overpowered cheese.

SemperMortis wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
I will agree with anyone who says a Wraithknight should be a walker.

Look at it. It's a walker. Same goes for whatever that Tau walker posing as an MC is.

Just because Monstrous Creatures exist as a category, doesn't mean walkers should be unnaturally placed in the category, when there is a perfectly good Walker category to fill their need. If you want a monster, make a monster model, not a walker.

Especially considering gak like Elder and Tau don't need a stupid"walker-turned- MC" to compete.


So.dumb.

I post this every time someone says the wraithknight should be a walker. The wraithknight is a hybrid. There is a semi pilot who helps the souls bound in the wraithbone be more agile. A wraithknight is simply a larger wraithlord. It can operate without the person inside it but it would just be slower.

And yet the fusions of Daemons and Machine that are Soulgrinders, Forgefiends and Maulerfiends are...wait for it...Walkers.

The argument that X is a GC/MC because it's powered by a soul or only has a semi-pilot and can thus operate independantly falls down flat on its face when presented with...wait for it...Daemon Engines.

Which have no pilots and even have models that look more like living organisms than Machines.

Nailed it, any thoughts Xerics?

I do believe that the soulgrinder should be a MC/GMC as it is half a demon as it is. The Maulerfiend and forgefiend I am unsure of as I don't have much experience with them but they look very mechanical. I have not read their fluff but I do know that they are posessed by a daemon (although I am unsure how a daemon possesses a machine, but must have something to do with the Dark Mechanicum). The Helldrake I feel is on the same level as well as they Kytan Daemon Engine. They look very mechanical but are somehow posessed by daemons.

Like I said though I do agree on the soulgrinder.

I do believe that the soulgrinder should be a MC/GMC as it is half a demon as it is. The Maulerfiend and forgefiend I am unsure of as I don't have much experience with them but they look very mechanical. I have not read their fluff but I do know that they are posessed by a daemon (although I am unsure how a daemon possesses a machine, but must have something to do with the Dark Mechanicum). The Helldrake I feel is on the same level as well as they Kytan Daemon Engine. They look very mechanical but are somehow posessed by daemons.

Like I said though I do agree on the soulgrinder.

So because they look very mechanical your not sure they should be changed into MC/GMC, By that same logic then, every Wraith Construct and Tau suit should be turned into a vehicle because to most people they look very "Mechanical".

SemperMortis wrote:

I do believe that the soulgrinder should be a MC/GMC as it is half a demon as it is. The Maulerfiend and forgefiend I am unsure of as I don't have much experience with them but they look very mechanical. I have not read their fluff but I do know that they are posessed by a daemon (although I am unsure how a daemon possesses a machine, but must have something to do with the Dark Mechanicum). The Helldrake I feel is on the same level as well as they Kytan Daemon Engine. They look very mechanical but are somehow posessed by daemons.

Like I said though I do agree on the soulgrinder.

So because they look very mechanical your not sure they should be changed into MC/GMC, By that same logic then, every Wraith Construct and Tau suit should be turned into a vehicle because to most people they look very "Mechanical".

Did you read the whole thing or did you pick and choose what you wanted to take out of there to support your own argument?

 Xerics wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

I do believe that the soulgrinder should be a MC/GMC as it is half a demon as it is. The Maulerfiend and forgefiend I am unsure of as I don't have much experience with them but they look very mechanical. I have not read their fluff but I do know that they are posessed by a daemon (although I am unsure how a daemon possesses a machine, but must have something to do with the Dark Mechanicum). The Helldrake I feel is on the same level as well as they Kytan Daemon Engine. They look very mechanical but are somehow posessed by daemons.

Like I said though I do agree on the soulgrinder.

So because they look very mechanical your not sure they should be changed into MC/GMC, By that same logic then, every Wraith Construct and Tau suit should be turned into a vehicle because to most people they look very "Mechanical".

Did you read the whole thing or did you pick and choose what you wanted to take out of there to support your own argument?

No, I read the entire thing, just because I don't point out you agreeing with 1 part of that post doesn't mean I didn't read it. I just choose not to mention something as self evident as that to anyone who has bothered to read your post, they should understand what my following post is about.

On the other hand, did you bother to read any of the comments about changing those MC/GMC into vehicles? because you seem to hide behind fluff. I wonder though if MC/GMC rules got nerfed into the ground the same way that walkers are right now, and walkers got the MC/GMC buffs that those unit types have now, if you would then be arguing that they should be vehicles because they look like walkers.

No I would just field different units. I have nearly 3 full squads of every unit in my codex save for shining spears and would simply just field something else like scatterbikes, a revenant titan, warp spiders, BS5 Dark reapers, 45 wraithguard, or whatever else I feel like fielding. I haven't limited myself to exactly 2000 points of a single army.