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nosferatu1001 wrote:
Because it is still reserves. Moving on from reserves (deploying) doesnt alter that you turned up from reserves. So you would still be restricted from charging at that point.

You do not deploy from Reserves. You just Deploy. Units do not begin the game in Reserves or Deep Strike Reserves unless you specifically place them there. A unit that deploys via Infiltrate never once enters Reserves. A unit that Infiltrates is not allowed to charge in the subsequent assault phase. Cult Ambush never once gives anyone that restriction.

So either a) You guys are correct and the extra wording on result 6 on the CA table is nonsense because nothing restricts your unit from assaulting after deployment anyway or b) I am right, and a unit that deploys via Infiltrate is still infiltrating even when they roll on the CA table which comes with all the restrictions Infiltrate does (unless the result on the table supersedes it).

Alright, I have deployed my units onto the battlefield and I have units from Subterranean Uprising Formation to use because all of those units MUST Infiltrate during deployment AND used CA.
"All of the units in a Subterranean Uprising must Infiltrate during deployment, and set up using the Cult Ambush special rule."

According to the Infiltrate special rule, "Units... with this special rule are deployed last, after all other units (friend and foe) have been deployed...etc. Infiltrator can be set up anywhere on the table that is...etc. A unit that deploys using these rules cannot charge in their first turn." BRB p.167

Cult Ambush special rule which give me option (in which I must use) to roll on a table instead of deploying normally.
"Units with this special rule that Infiltrate, or arrive from Reserve or Ongoing Reserve, can choose to roll on the cult ambush table, opposite, instead of deploying or arriving from reserves normally."

One unit roll a . So I placed them next to some poor IG squad 3" away.
"Set up the ambushing unit anywhere on the table that is more than 3" from any enemy unit. Unlike other units that Infiltrate or arrive from Reserves, the ambushing unit can charge in their first turn or on the turn they arrive from Reserves."

However on my 1st turn, I cannot move my unit any further.
"Unless otherwise specified, ambushing units move onto the table as described other Reserves and cannot move any further during the Movement phase of the turn they deployed or arrive on the battlefield."



But wait! There is a Servo-skull next to those squads.
"Enemy infiltrators cannot set up within 12" of a Servo-skull and enemy scouts can't use their pre-game move to approach within 12" of a Servo-skull." 6th-ed-Codex-Inquisition 2013

It is a good thing thing that my unit are ambushing those IG squad instead.

That my take of understanding the CA, units become ambushing units instead of infiltrators. Which I think come under the Basic vs Advanced rules in BRB pg13 where the printed codex takes precedences.

Well said, and I agree completely. Cult Ambush is it's own rule, after all a unit of genestealers has both infiltrate and cult ambush and can use either. It's pretty basic understanding to see they are two different rules and therefore servo skulls wouldn't work.

Sibuna wrote:
Alright, I have deployed my units onto the battlefield and I have units from Subterranean Uprising Formation to use because all of those units MUST Infiltrate during deployment AND used CA.
"All of the units in a Subterranean Uprising must Infiltrate during deployment, and set up using the Cult Ambush special rule."

According to the Infiltrate special rule, "Units... with this special rule are deployed last, after all other units (friend and foe) have been deployed...etc. Infiltrator can be set up anywhere on the table that is...etc. A unit that deploys using these rules cannot charge in their first turn." BRB p.167

Cult Ambush special rule which give me option (in which I must use) to roll on a table instead of deploying normally.
"Units with this special rule that Infiltrate, or arrive from Reserve or Ongoing Reserve, can choose to roll on the cult ambush table, opposite, instead of deploying or arriving from reserves normally."

One unit roll a . So I placed them next to some poor IG squad 3" away.
"Set up the ambushing unit anywhere on the table that is more than 3" from any enemy unit. Unlike other units that Infiltrate or arrive from Reserves, the ambushing unit can charge in their first turn or on the turn they arrive from Reserves."

However on my 1st turn, I cannot move my unit any further.
"Unless otherwise specified, ambushing units move onto the table as described other Reserves and cannot move any further during the Movement phase of the turn they deployed or arrive on the battlefield."

Yes, they can move during their first turn. Unit that infiltrate are deployed during Deployment. Deployment is not the First Turn, it comes before any turns happen. Therefore, it is not the same turn that they arrived on the battlefield and they can move just fine.

Sibuna wrote:
But wait! There is a Servo-skull next to those squads.
"Enemy infiltrators cannot set up within 12" of a Servo-skull and enemy scouts can't use their pre-game move to approach within 12" of a Servo-skull." 6th-ed-Codex-Inquisition 2013

It is a good thing thing that my unit are ambushing those IG squad instead.

That my take of understanding the CA, units become ambushing units instead of infiltrators. Which I think come under the Basic vs Advanced rules in BRB pg13 where the printed codex takes precedences.

Well, you'll just have to be more than 12" away from the servo-skull.

Incorrect, you can set them up, up to 3 inches away according to the table.

 Lance845 wrote:
What are you talking about?

The rule says units that infiltrate. Not units that have the Infiltrate special rule. That is language that says you must infiltrate first.

Show me where in the CA rule it says that you cannot charge in the assault phase following deployment or entering the table from reserves. Show me. Because that is adding language that does not exist, UNLESS, like I have been saying, CA is in addition to the other methods of entering the board. In which case, THOSE methods have that restriction.

The rules for Infiltrate basically state that the unit must Infiltrate if they have the Infiltrate rule. It is not stated as an optional endeavor. The only way out of it is by putting the unit in Reserves.

The Draft FAQs do state otherwise, though.

I love your batreps MWG and I felt compelled to comment here... oops.

But I wanna say that you 'infiltrate' the unit, but before you place the models you can roll on the table instead of infiltrating normally.

Either way, this is another example of crappy writing and an annoyingly passionate community

~Mikey

 Red Corsair wrote:
Incorrect, you can set them up, up to 3 inches away according to the table.

But at least 12" away according to Servo Skulls. Which does create a quagmire when trying to solve it using advanced > general, since both are advanced. It's not automatically codex > rulebook (of course, here we're talking about codex vs codex). Something to discuss with opponents before the game.

 doctortom wrote:

Sibuna wrote:
Alright, I have deployed my units onto the battlefield and I have units from Subterranean Uprising Formation to use because all of those units MUST Infiltrate during deployment AND used CA.
"All of the units in a Subterranean Uprising must Infiltrate during deployment, and set up using the Cult Ambush special rule."

According to the Infiltrate special rule, "Units... with this special rule are deployed last, after all other units (friend and foe) have been deployed...etc. Infiltrator can be set up anywhere on the table that is...etc. A unit that deploys using these rules cannot charge in their first turn." BRB p.167

Cult Ambush special rule which give me option (in which I must use) to roll on a table instead of deploying normally.
"Units with this special rule that Infiltrate, or arrive from Reserve or Ongoing Reserve, can choose to roll on the cult ambush table, opposite, instead of deploying or arriving from reserves normally."

One unit roll a . So I placed them next to some poor IG squad 3" away.
"Set up the ambushing unit anywhere on the table that is more than 3" from any enemy unit. Unlike other units that Infiltrate or arrive from Reserves, the ambushing unit can charge in their first turn or on the turn they arrive from Reserves."

However on my 1st turn, I cannot move my unit any further.
"Unless otherwise specified, ambushing units move onto the table as described other Reserves and cannot move any further during the Movement phase of the turn they deployed or arrive on the battlefield."

Yes, they can move during their first turn. Unit that infiltrate are deployed during Deployment. Deployment is not the First Turn, it comes before any turns happen. Therefore, it is not the same turn that they arrived on the battlefield and they can move just fine.

According to preparing for battle BRB p128, it refer deployment as a step in the sequence and deployment described itself as deploying. Reserve describe itself as arriving and deploying on the bottom of BRB p.135. Infiltrate doesn't mention deployment as a turn either, just when you can deploy it. It is pretty much up to interpretation now what "arrive on the battlefield" means. I cannot find it what it means.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 doctortom wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Incorrect, you can set them up, up to 3 inches away according to the table.

But at least 12" away according to Servo Skulls. Which does create a quagmire when trying to solve it using advanced > general, since both are advanced. It's not automatically codex > rulebook (of course, here we're talking about codex vs codex). Something to discuss with opponents before the game.

Just to throw it out there, servo-skull rule was plubish in 2013(or the rule I was able to find) while the 7th ed brb was publish 2014. Now GSC is 2016. But let me put a question, during turn 2, I rolled for reserve and roll for cult ambush to place a unit next servo-skull. Does it prevent me from deploying within 12" of it like it does pre-game to infiltrate?

 doctortom wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Incorrect, you can set them up, up to 3 inches away according to the table.

But at least 12" away according to Servo Skulls. Which does create a quagmire when trying to solve it using advanced > general, since both are advanced. It's not automatically codex > rulebook (of course, here we're talking about codex vs codex). Something to discuss with opponents before the game.

Incorrect, servo skulls specifically work on infiltration and scout moves. Cult Ambush IS a specific rule stating you may do it instead of normal deployment. Infiltration is in fact a normal form of deployment laid out in the Warhammer 40,000 The Rules on page 167.

Show me in the rules specifically where servo skulls mentions cult ambush.

I'll take it further. Units with infiltrate and cult ambush are allowed four options. Deployment by infiltration, by cult ambush, by reserves, or none of the above. Since infiltration is an option other then cult ambush this demonstrates the two rules are there own. Cult ambush simply requires infiltration as a prerequisite to unlock CA. CA states that it is an option instead of normal deployment. In order for Servo skulls to work it would need to adress CA specifically, something it most certainly does not do.

Sibuna wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

Sibuna wrote:
Alright, I have deployed my units onto the battlefield and I have units from Subterranean Uprising Formation to use because all of those units MUST Infiltrate during deployment AND used CA.
"All of the units in a Subterranean Uprising must Infiltrate during deployment, and set up using the Cult Ambush special rule."

According to the Infiltrate special rule, "Units... with this special rule are deployed last, after all other units (friend and foe) have been deployed...etc. Infiltrator can be set up anywhere on the table that is...etc. A unit that deploys using these rules cannot charge in their first turn." BRB p.167

Cult Ambush special rule which give me option (in which I must use) to roll on a table instead of deploying normally.
"Units with this special rule that Infiltrate, or arrive from Reserve or Ongoing Reserve, can choose to roll on the cult ambush table, opposite, instead of deploying or arriving from reserves normally."

One unit roll a . So I placed them next to some poor IG squad 3" away.
"Set up the ambushing unit anywhere on the table that is more than 3" from any enemy unit. Unlike other units that Infiltrate or arrive from Reserves, the ambushing unit can charge in their first turn or on the turn they arrive from Reserves."

However on my 1st turn, I cannot move my unit any further.
"Unless otherwise specified, ambushing units move onto the table as described other Reserves and cannot move any further during the Movement phase of the turn they deployed or arrive on the battlefield."

Yes, they can move during their first turn. Unit that infiltrate are deployed during Deployment. Deployment is not the First Turn, it comes before any turns happen. Therefore, it is not the same turn that they arrived on the battlefield and they can move just fine.

According to preparing for battle BRB p128, it refer deployment as a step in the sequence and deployment described itself as deploying. Reserve describe itself as arriving and deploying on the bottom of BRB p.135. Infiltrate doesn't mention deployment as a turn either, just when you can deploy it. It is pretty much up to interpretation now what "arrive on the battlefield" means. I cannot find it what it means.

On page 132 the Standard Deployment method has each side setting up their armies (one side then the other side). After their armies have been deployed, you roll to see who goes first. Infiltrate states that they are deployed last, after all other units. Even though they are last, it would still be during deployment, before you have rolled to see who gets the first turn. That means it's still before the first turn, and they can move normally in the first turn.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Incorrect, you can set them up, up to 3 inches away according to the table.

But at least 12" away according to Servo Skulls. Which does create a quagmire when trying to solve it using advanced > general, since both are advanced. It's not automatically codex > rulebook (of course, here we're talking about codex vs codex). Something to discuss with opponents before the game.

Incorrect, servo skulls specifically work on infiltration and scout moves. Cult Ambush IS a specific rule stating you may do it instead of normal deployment. Infiltration is in fact a normal form of deployment laid out in the Warhammer 40,000 The Rules on page 167.

Show me in the rules specifically where servo skulls mentions cult ambush.

I'll take it further. Units with infiltrate and cult ambush are allowed four options. Deployment by infiltration, by cult ambush, by reserves, or none of the above. Since infiltration is an option other then cult ambush this demonstrates the two rules are there own. Cult ambush simply requires infiltration as a prerequisite to unlock CA. CA states that it is an option instead of normal deployment. In order for Servo skulls to work it would need to adress CA specifically, something it most certainly does not do.

Okay, since Servo Skulls mention specifically infiltration and scout moves, but not CA, by RAW they could be within 3". It would have been nice for you to present that in your previous post instead of merely saying "incorrect" then. Now I see the reasoning behind it. Thanks for elaborating! (That said, I would not be surprised to see a draft FAQ come and change servoskulls so that they include CA also. Until then, though, they should be able to move 3")

 miniwargaming wrote:
I wonder if when they say "deploy" they mean the 3+ results on the Cult Ambush table that say you "set up" your models.

What is meant by 3+ here? I don't get it. Getting back into 40K so I really don't know all the terminology. I thought it meant a save at first.

Davor wrote:

 miniwargaming wrote:
I wonder if when they say "deploy" they mean the 3+ results on the Cult Ambush table that say you "set up" your models.

What is meant by 3+ here? I don't get it. Getting back into 40K so I really don't know all the terminology. I thought it meant a save at first.

Result#
1 enter your edge
2 out flank
3+ special results on cult ambush chart.

Red Corsair wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 miniwargaming wrote:
Sorry Lance845, but that's not how it works. It says that instead of Infiltrating or arriving from reserves normally they roll on the table. It replaces it, not modifies it.

The rule never has any line that says "instead of infiltrating".

"....instead of deploying or arriving from reserves normally." It actually does in the first sentence. Infiltration is a form of deployment, see the rulebook pg 167.

So yes, Cult Ambush is performed as a replacement to infiltration per deployment.

I don't know how 40K works. I have played 5 games, 5 different ways because that is how my opponents played it. So what I am going to say, is asking a question, not saying how something works.

So if we are going to deploy or put minis on the table and we want to use Cult Ambush, we have to Infiltrate them or put them in reserves or just place them on the table, but we can't do that now because minis were already deployed or put on the table by now correct? So that leaves us two options, Infiltrate them or put them in reserves. So if we want to put them on turn one, they can only be done through Infiltrate. So because we waited till all other minis were put on the table, we can either infiltrate them now correct? So we either infiltrate them or use the Cult Ambush table. I would say since we are using the Cult Ambush table, it's still an infiltrate move because it's happening when infiltrate allows minis to be put on the table now.

What I don't get is how does Cult Ambush replaces infiltrate now? Where does it say it replaces infiltrate. If its not an infiltrate move, then we can't place them on the table because 1) all minis were put on the table, so if it's not an infiltrate move, then they have to be put in reserve. So where does it say it replaces infiltrate but can still be done in an infiltrate move? Only wording that I see is put in reservers or ongoing reserves. So it is infiltrating on turn one.

*edit* Just reread the rule again on the iPad interactive version and it says "Units with this special rule that infiltrate or arrive from reserves or ongoing reserves can choose to roll on the Cult Ambush Table". It says right in the beginning Units THAT Infiltrate . So on turn one it is infiltrating. I can't see no way around this. It is saying THAT. So it's saying the unit is infiltrating. It doesn't say units that have the rule but not using it, but a unit THAT is doing the action which is infiltrating. So on turn one, it's a modified infiltrating move like Lance845 is saying.

Red Corsair wrote:Well said, and I agree completely. Cult Ambush is it's own rule, after all a unit of genestealers has both infiltrate and cult ambush and can use either. It's pretty basic understanding to see they are two different rules and therefore servo skulls wouldn't work.

Why not? As I just said above, "Units

Timeshadow wrote:

Davor wrote:

 miniwargaming wrote:
I wonder if when they say "deploy" they mean the 3+ results on the Cult Ambush table that say you "set up" your models.

What is meant by 3+ here? I don't get it. Getting back into 40K so I really don't know all the terminology. I thought it meant a save at first.

Result#
1 enter your edge
2 out flank
3+ special results on cult ambush chart.

Thank you very much.

**edit**

Here is a question. In Warmahordes there is a rule that says if something Can't do something it overrides Something can do something. Or the other way around. Is there a rule like this in 40K?

The Infiltrate special rule refers to units with Infiltrate as "Infiltrators". Servo Skulls prevent "Infiltrators" from setting up nearby. Units with Infiltrate that use Cult Ambush are still "Infiltrators" as far as I can tell.

Sorry if I seemed blunt. I tend to keep my responses very short in this thread. I wasn't trying to be harsh.

Red Corsair, can you please put spoiler tags on your quote especially when you only made one sentence. I think that is frowned upon here doing that.

Red Corsait - no problem. I'm just happy to see that result, though Davor has a point on Infiltrate. It says when you Infiltrate or come in from Reserves or Ongoing Reserves you can choose to roll on the table instead of deploying or coming on normally. It doesn't say that you're not infiltrating or coming in from Reserves, just that you're rolling on a different table to see how you deploy or come in from Reserves. Since they don't say "instead of infiltrating" and you still count as infiltrating, the Servo Skull would still be able to keep you 12" away.


Davor - good point there on the Infiltrate. And, spoiler tag's one way to handle it; I usually just go truncate the quote down to the relevant portions myself (and usually have to end up editing a time or two because I cut a bracket that should be there or left an end quote command that shouldn't )

But are they infiltrating on turn one? If someone can check the wording on infiltrate - does it refer to the models as "infiltrators" in an explicit mention of the first turn, or just deployment? (I don't have my book with me at work). Just in case that muddies it up again

BossJakadakk wrote:
But are they infiltrating on turn one? If someone can check the wording on infiltrate - does it refer to the models as "infiltrators" in an explicit mention of the first turn, or just deployment? (I don't have my book with me at work). Just in case that muddies it up again

No, they aren't infiltrating on turn one. The one mention of first turn is "A unit that deploys using these rules cannot charge in the first turn", making it clear that Infiltrate takes place during deployment. this is made even more clear when they talk about having the combination of infiltrate and scout, saying that after you have infiltrated, you are allowed to redeploy afterwards using Scout. Scout makes clear that Scout redeployment happens before the first player's first turn.

Ah, misunderstood what was being asserted there then. Carry on, you magnificent beasts!

I've always interpreted "Infiltrators" as "Units who are Infiltrating", not just any unit that has the rule. Under that interpretation, I would say Servo Skulls wouldn't affect Cult Ambush since they are not actively Infiltrating, they are deploying via Ambush.

Infiltrate

Spoiler:

"Units that contain at least one model with this special rule are deployed last, after all other units (friend and foe) have been deployed. If both side have Infiltrators, the player roll-off and the winner decides who goes first, then alternate deploying these units. Infiltrator can be set up anywhere on the table that is 12" from any enemy units.... A unit that deploys using these rules cannot charge in their first turn." BRB p.167

Unit who have the Infiltrate rule can deployed last, they have an option to roll on Cult Ambush(if they have the rule) table on how they want to setup. But they're not setting up as infiltrator but as ambushing units.

Cult Ambush

Spoiler:

"Units with this special rule that Infiltrate, or arrive from Reserve or Ongoing Reserve, can choose to roll on the cult ambush table, opposite, instead of deploying or arriving from reserves normally. unless otherwise specified, ambushing units move onto the table as during the movement phase of the turn they deploy or arrive on the battlefield. Units cannot use the Cult Ambush special rule whilst they are embarked inside a vehicle"

Scout

Spoiler:

After both side have deployed (including Infiltrators), but before the first player begins his first turn, a unit containing at least model with this special rule can choose to redeployed.

Deploying unit that Infiltrate and redeployed scout are consider normal in the basic rule, Cult Ambush is a advances rule which is abnormal.

Result 6 on Cult Ambush table: They Came From Below

Spoiler:

"Set up the ambushing unit anywhere on the table that is more than 3" from any enemy unit. Unlike other units that Infiltrate or arrive from Reserves, the ambushing unit can charge in their first turn or on the turn they arrive from Reserves."

Servo-Skull

Spoiler:

"Enemy infiltrators cannot set up within 12" of a Servo-skull and enemy scouts can't use their pre-game move to approach within 12" of a Servo-skull." 6th-ed-Codex-Inquisition 2013

Units using the Cult Ambush are set up as ambushing units, not as infiltrators

Sibuna wrote:

Cult Ambush "Units with this special rule that Infiltrate, or arrive from Reserve or Ongoing Reserve, can choose to roll on the cult ambush table, opposite, instead of deploying or arriving from reserves normally. unless otherwise specified, ambushing units move onto the table as during the movement phase of the turn they deploy or arrive on the battlefield. Units cannot use the Cult Ambush special rule whilst they are embarked inside a vehicle"

So are you saying "deploying" in your bolded and underlined statement is taking the place of infiltrate since that is a type of deployment move?

Servo skulls were written long before cult ambush existed.

Cult ambush only happens if the model could infiltrate/come in from reserves- and happens in place of normally doing those.

Most of the results for cult ambush.

Given the result of '6' for cult ambush specifies:

"unlike other units that arrive from infiltrate or arrive from reserves, the ambushing unit can charge in their first turn, or on the turn they arrive from reserves"

So either cult ambush is arriving from infiltrate/reserves, or all the results allow you to assault. Given the answer from 6, the RAW indicates cult ambush is still a way of arriving from reserves or infiltrating.

Some people may choose to latch onto the word ambush and claim its something other than infiltrating or reserves, but the result of 6 clearly shows that the other results are counting as infiltrating/reserves but are modified by the ambush rule- otherwise if they were not they could assault too.

So there is a much stronger RAW case that server skulls affect ambush than not.

blaktoof wrote:

Some people may choose to latch onto the word ambush and claim its something other than infiltrating or reserves, but the result of 6 clearly shows that the other results are counting as infiltrating/reserves but are modified by the ambush rule- otherwise if they were not they could assault too.

So there is a much stronger RAW case that server skulls affect ambush than not.

Good point where does Ambush say it can place units during the infiltrating phase? If I am reading other peoples replies, I am almost thinking if we go by their way we don't even place units in the infiltrating phase but during the movement phase almost like doing a deep strike. So that would mean Ambushes are done after infiltrators and if your opponent has infiltrating units, they are deployed first before ambushes are done.

Oh why, GW why. You had the PERFECT chance to write Clear, Concise rules and you are still the same old GW. Smoke and mirrors, GW, smoke and mirrors. Such a shame, I was having high hopes you have changed.

Davor wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

Some people may choose to latch onto the word ambush and claim its something other than infiltrating or reserves, but the result of 6 clearly shows that the other results are counting as infiltrating/reserves but are modified by the ambush rule- otherwise if they were not they could assault too.

So there is a much stronger RAW case that server skulls affect ambush than not.

Good point where does Ambush say it can place units during the infiltrating phase? If I am reading other peoples replies, I am almost thinking if we go by their way we don't even place units in the infiltrating phase but during the movement phase almost like doing a deep strike. So that would mean Ambushes are done after infiltrators and if your opponent has infiltrating units, they are deployed first before ambushes are done.

Oh why, GW why. You had the PERFECT chance to write Clear, Concise rules and you are still the same old GW. Smoke and mirrors, GW, smoke and mirrors. Such a shame, I was having high hopes you have changed.

If you place units during the movement phase, how would you handle ones that have Infiltrate AND Scout? Going by what you're saying, they wouldn't be able to use the Scout move since that's done before first turn, and there isn't a movement phase during depolyment. If you go by the rules, Cult Ambush for units infiltrating would be done at the time they would infiltrate, only you roll on the CA table instead. Units coming in from Reserves would get to roll on the CA table on whatever turn they managed to make their Reserves roll and show up.

Davor wrote:
Good point where does Ambush say it can place units during the infiltrating phase? If I am reading other peoples replies, I am almost thinking if we go by their way we don't even place units in the infiltrating phase but during the movement phase almost like doing a deep strike. So that would mean Ambushes are done after infiltrators and if your opponent has infiltrating units, they are deployed first before ambushes are done.

Right here: "Units with this special rule that Infiltrate, or arrive from Reserve or Ongoing Reserve, can choose to roll on the cult ambush table, opposite, instead of deploying or arriving from reserves normally.

To infiltrate, you must be deploying using the Infiltrate Special Rule. "Deploying" is placing a unit on the table, as can be seen by its use in Deep Strike and the many Outflanking rules.

Davor wrote:
Oh why, GW why. You had the PERFECT chance to write Clear, Concise rules and you are still the same old GW. Smoke and mirrors, GW, smoke and mirrors. Such a shame, I was having high hopes you have changed.

They aren't game writers. They admit it themselves. They do not care about their game. They care about their story and their Intellectual property. Never mind that one of the reasons FOR all of that is the game.

 Charistoph wrote:

Right here: "Units with this special rule that Infiltrate, or arrive from Reserve or Ongoing Reserve, can choose to roll on the cult ambush table, opposite, instead of deploying or arriving from reserves normally.

To infiltrate, you must be deploying using the Infiltrate Special Rule. "Deploying" is placing a unit on the table, as can be seen by its use in Deep Strike and the many Outflanking rules.

I see, wish someone pointed that out sooner. This make a little more sense, Thank you Charistoph. Cult Ambushing Units are in fact infiltrating, We do roll off who infiltrate 1st and such, and they do not charge on the 1st turn unless say otherwise. I was under the impression that you just need Infiltrate Special rule just to deployed last and since you used that rule to do that, you also don't assault on the 1st turn. Like Charistoph pointed out, units with Cult Ambush Deploy using Cult Ambush table.

The gray area I can see is the Set up i.e. deploying unit on the table since Cult Ambush refer to its unit as "ambushing units" and not as "infiltrators" when setting up.

I am however still in favor of the RAW, just because basic vs advances on BRB p.13

We also a GW FAQ draft for Ghost Quintus Broodkin for Ambush the Unhallowed saying that Servo-Skull do not negate that special rule even though that they are using the infiltrate special rule.

Sibuna wrote:
The gray area I can see is the Set up i.e. deploying unit on the table since Cult Ambush refer to its unit as "ambushing units" and not as "infiltrators" when setting up.

The term "infiltrators" is used in the Infiltrate rule in such a way that it can only mean "a unit possessing the Infiltrate rule".

Having Infiltrate also confers the Outflank special rule to units of Infiltrators that are kept as Reserves.

Units that are being put in Reserves are not "infiltrating". Just like a "painter" doesn't stop being one when his brushes are put away, "infiltrators" do not stop being infiltrators when they aren't being sneaky during deployment.

This is further reinforced by the Draft FAQ (for whatever mileage that is worth).