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So I went and read the 8th ed rulebook today thinking about my army. And I'm loving it . Below are my thoughts about how some of the changes affect my army, feel free to post the impressions you've gotten for yours from reading it, or questions about yours that I (or others) might be able to answer from having seen it.

Here's the things I came away with, as they relate to the units in my army:

Dryads
They're better than before!!! Who says skirmishers are going away? There's no more outnumber, so that's 1 combat res they're not losing that they were. And now they get +1 CR for charging, so that's a 2 CR difference from before. If they don't charge, they'll probably still strike first at Initiative 6! They're STUBBORN in a forest! And although it might become a wild wood and eat some of them, it also might buff them. They move as a group 1/2" apart, but they group together to charge / receive a charge. They GET SUPPORTING ATTACKS from the second row!! Just like a regular block. AND, they provide hard cover (-2 to hit!) to units behind them!!! While still receiving -1 to hit themselves for being skirmishers. What's not to love?

Treekin
They get full attacks from the second rank (so 3 each!) PLUS Stomp attacks, which go last but auto-hit and are at their strength (for each model that fights in the combat I believe). They get ranks with 3 models, so they can negate ranks with 6 models in a unit (pricey, but not impossible to get, and they can bring the pain and take some hits themselves!). They can actually survive getting there by getting hard cover from dryads, and then get decent charges since it's true LOS (they can see a unit) through the dryads. Of course the dryads will have to charge as well and get out of the way- I'm not sure about the mechanics of maximizing, we might have played it wrong in the test game, but they just seem easier to use now, and much more effective.

Treeman
Not as good as before, but hey, they rocked before . No +1 to hit large targets, but also I think no benefit from cover, so it evens out. Can't break ranks of course, but can support well enough.

Eagles
Why wouldn't I take them now? They don't use up a rare slot, and they're a steal, imho! Definitely going to be bringing 2 of these now.

Branchwraith
One wizard to get the 2D6 PD, and that's it . I like magic being kind of built in, you can definitely buff it, but you can do OK while committing less points to it.

Overall, I'm really liking my army for this edition. It's true, I don't have blocks. And shooting is buffed, but so is cover! My dryads can still do well and cause a lot of damage, and while an enemy unit might be stubborn for having more ranks, I can do well attacking first and try not to lose combat. Or hide in the woods and be stubborn myself. Treekin can be well protected and actually get to combat, and do well. Treemen are good but not overpowering. And the branchwraiths and eagles can add a lot without being a huge points commitment.

I had a great time playing a test game with high elves vs. skaven, and getting a draw (I was the high elves, although I think I got a bit lucky). The game is smipler, more streamlined, and less easy to take advantage of loopholes and rules contradictions, imho. I also think it makes my rather odd army a bit more viable, even without the much-vaunted blocks that everyone is talking about. Skirmishers screening some monstrous infantry, backed up by a few monsters and augmented with a few role-playing units... mmm, mmm, good

Don't forget that Eagles Stomp!, too.

Even better!

Great rundown RiTides. I'm going to try to take a gander at the book tomorrow and give my first impressions for the Dwarfs.

RZ

My Thoughts so far:

Wizards adding Level to Dispel attempts in addition to Casting means I may use a Grey Seer in lower points than only 2k.

Spears and Hordes means I may build a bunch more Clanrats.

May start bringing Rat Ogres.

MOAR WARMACHINES, specifically Plagueclaw Catapult(thanks to indirect fire for Stone Throwers) and WLCs.

Thanks to Unstable for Swarms(think Undead and Daemons wounds for Combat), I may not get Rat Swarms.

New Frenzy rules(specifically the holding back rules) mean I may boost the size of my Monks.

New Items mean new combos for Characters(currently thinking the new re-roll failed saves item teamed with Warpstone Armour and Initiative 10 Weapon on a Warlord).

I'm sure I'll think of more as I get more familiar with the rules.

Hi Ritides

If my fallible memory serves me correctly there was some controversy about skimishers having to move together almost as though they were in a movement tray.

How does that one actually pan out please? Asuming I recall correctly, not holding me breath!

Good to hear your army looks viable

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Hi Ritides

If my fallible memory serves me correctly there was some controversy about skimishers having to move together almost as though they were in a movement tray.

How does that one actually pan out please? Asuming I recall correctly, not holding me breath!

Good to hear your army looks viable

It's true.

Skirmishers are like this:
X=model
_=1/2 inch Space

X_X_X_X_X
_________
X_X_X_X_X
_________
X_X_X_X_X

I just checked that today, and it turns out to be 1/2". I'd been concerned that being "fixed" 1" apart would make the units too large and unwieldy.

However, since they'll move in a normal formation, just with 1/2" spacing (just as Platuan posted in the diagram above) to each side and to the rank behind, I think it'll be just fine. I'm actually looking foward to it, since it'll drastically speed up movement in my games .

Not really a big deal, and it makes sense for a square game, imho! I'm actually quite pleased with this change

Edit: Also, when you charge / receive a charge, you'll just "compress" the unit. So Platuan's diagram above would make a normal 5x3 block. I plan to run my dryads 2 deep and probably 6 (possibly 7, but then it gets a bit hard to manage) wide to get maximum btb attacks and supporting attacks from behind (since only the 2nd row gets supporting attacks, I don't see myself going any deeper than 2).

Gotta say, after I got over my initial aversion to something different, I kind of like this change to skirmishers. Seems more in keeping with my concept of historical skirmishing units. They still have to keep kind of close together to coordinate movements and commands and such. And if it moves things back towards blocks, I'm all for it.

RZ

Thanks for the correction, RiTides. I had only glanced over it after eying the diagram, so it's not as in my memory as the rest of the rules.

Fixed the Diagram key above.

I'm kind of worried. I was planning to start tomb kings at some point, and it looks like they nerfed chariots from what I've been reading on the forums (or rather, infantry got a huge boost that makes chariots seem to lose their primary purpose). They, among other things, also can't cancel ranks, so even less utility there. Tar pitting infantry seem less effective, and at their current price, way too expensive to be worthwhile.

Probably some other stuff, too, and I really hope they re-do the Tomb Kings book by the time I gather the funds to start. Not likely, though.

I do think tomb kings being re-done is on the horizon. With the buff to blocks and chariots not cancelling ranks (unless you can run them with a rank themselves?) it does looks to hurt tomb kings a bit.

S7 no longer insta-kills chariots, though! And your own blocks of skellies / archers are probably more viable now, too.

Can some one do daemons and warriors of chaos please?

The demon magic list is pretty much gone, harder to play. Combat for demons got a nice buff. Plague bearers need a erratta however. Slaanesh and Khorne got a really nice buff. I am play testing them with 8th rules at the moment so ill have to get back on specifics. Flamers got buffed imo also, they seem to be twice as deadly.

edited:spelling

I don't think WE gained. Hopefully there is a new book on the horizon. But so far, there are a lot of buffs to large units, static units and hand to hand fighting. Those all disfavor WE.

Skirmishers overall seem worse. Not charging 360 degrees is bad.

Yes Eagles and Treekin are better, but thank god.

Oh and I don't think you need any wizards to get the dispel dice, it is automatic. So you don't even need to bother with the branchwraith if you don't want.

It's true, they might not have gotten any better overall, but some of the units that I've been taking did, so that makes me happy . Thank god treekin are better, indeed

So who's seen it and can run down another army? I would also be interested in seeing a WoC perspective.

RiTides wrote:It's true, they might not have gotten any better overall, but some of the units that I've been taking did, so that makes me happy . Thank god treekin are better, indeed

So who's seen it and can run down another army? I would also be interested in seeing a WoC perspective.

WOC are better then they were in 7th, still have the issue of costing alot however and the magic can tear them apart worse then ever. We ran over 5 games with the new rules so far, empire, beastmen, dwarves. Empire are alot better with the premeasure warmachines (makes the rockets SO amazing). Beastmen still unsure of at the moment. Dwarves are also alot better, being able to charge this time, warhmachine pre measure, +5 to dispell if done right and Runepriest//lords just give you dispell dice. The dwarf player i watched had 9-10 dice and +5 to dispell almost at all times.

Yea I'll do a fuller WoC rundown, but in general, you have a lot of flexbility in that list. The monstrous infantry specials and rares are better now. The magic casting lords are good (if he miscasts, one str 10 template shot to a lord on disk isn't really any different than a single str 6 shot to him).

You will need to bulk your warriors up a little and not be so aggressive with knights, but otherwise seem good. 2 Hellcannons seems crucial.

I play VC

*breaks down sobbing*

robertsjf wrote:I play VC

*breaks down sobbing*

VC will be depending on Necros more than Vamps for Casting heavy due to the "1 copy of a certain spell in an army" limit not applying to purchasing specific spells.

robertsjf wrote:I play VC

*breaks down sobbing*

Sometimes the wheels fall off the bandwagon...

everyone still will get Invocation though, dont see how that affects you that much esp. when you can take forbidden lore. Most times you only have 1 of the key spell you want anyhow.

Zenkaron wrote:

RiTides wrote:It's true, they might not have gotten any better overall, but some of the units that I've been taking did, so that makes me happy . Thank god treekin are better, indeed

So who's seen it and can run down another army? I would also be interested in seeing a WoC perspective.

WOC are better then they were in 7th, still have the issue of costing alot however and the magic can tear them apart worse then ever. We ran over 5 games with the new rules so far, empire, beastmen, dwarves. Empire are alot better with the premeasure warmachines (makes the rockets SO amazing). Beastmen still unsure of at the moment. Dwarves are also alot better, being able to charge this time, warhmachine pre measure, +5 to dispell if done right and Runepriest//lords just give you dispell dice. The dwarf player i watched had 9-10 dice and +5 to dispell almost at all times.

This is why I'm tempted to go for a dwarf army. Thunderers/quarreler's can fire in 2 ranks. Plus with the war-machine improvements they're more deadly in shooting than ever. Plus great weapons fighting in 2 ranks will make dwarfs in close combat pack even more punch. Even hand-weapon and shields will be able to lob a few more hits.

With VC and a few other armies, don't drop them just yet with what you have read in the preview. The errata still hasn't hit yet, and could make them still good, as for other armies. I wouldn't fully judge "my army is nerfed etc" untill you have your armies 8th errata in hand.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:

robertsjf wrote:I play VC

*breaks down sobbing*

Sometimes the wheels fall off the bandwagon...

Ouch! Too bad that comment's directed at a guy that was playing undead before they had been seperated into wet and dry varieties.

Naw, I'd really just like to see the point costs of all those doodz that have the AUTOBREAKING fear trait built in reduced in cost for the new "I'm kinda skeered" fear.

I don't think VC will necessarily be horrible. I just think they will definitely play differently.

Killjoy00 wrote:Oh and I don't think you need any wizards to get the dispel dice, it is automatic. So you don't even need to bother with the branchwraith if you don't want.

Thanks for this, I went and checked the book again, and you're right on. Winds of magic gives you PD/DD regardless of having a wizard. So I'll get the PD to cast treesinging bound spells without having a weedy little lvl 1 bloke . Sweet!

Ok then

Beastmen

Gors: AHW isn't as good now. Because supportive attacks only allow 1A from the back rank, AHW is only giving me 6 attacks, instead of an all around 6+/6+ I would get from shields. Shields are where its at for big blocks, AHW for ambushers

Ungors: Cheap enough to be eligible for the Horde Rule, I was thinking of a big block of 4x10 with spears would be pretty nasty on 20mm bases.

Chariots: Got buffed, they don't have s7 auto-kill anymore. Quite nice.

Ghorgon: On par with the jabberslythe now. Its got 7+D6 attacks, stubborn on LD10, and can regain wounds in a pinch. 8th helped the ghorgon the most, and its nice that he causes Terror too. And of course, he's frenzied, but that's almost completely mitigated by LD10, oh, and since BSB allows rerolls on ALL LD checks, if he's within range, he's got 2 chances on LD10. Bloodgreed is ace as well.

Jabberslythe: Got worse, but its still worth it because its flying. Will be worth it for beastmen because of its aura since many will run cavalry in two ranks now, so even one casualty could make that unit from very deadly, to mediocre.

Cygor: The worst of the rares now. They're stone-throwing ability was improved, but its magic aura isn't as good now because of the changes to magic, and generally, he got all around nerfed. Won't be taking one any time soon.

Ungor Raiders: Still great for screening, the new skirmisher rules don't change much.

Beastlord: Got better because it can be taken in lower point games. Didn't change much besides that he and ALL heroes have more options because of all the new common magic items and such.

Minotaurs: Got tons better. They will most likely be taken in ranks of 3x2 for rank breaking. I see these guys being taken with AHW or shields now. I don't think GW minotaurs will be very competitive because of I1 and barely any armour. With stomp attacks though and such

Warhounds: Still too risky for screening.

Great Bray Shaman: Might be worth it since you can take as many lords as you want within the %'s. A Beastlord along with a L4 GBS with Hagtree Fetish and Staff of Darkoth could fit in a 2250 list I believe. Though, that's going pretty expensive on your characters since you'll also need a BSB. Tempting, but I don't think I'll have the points unless common points level everyone plays is changed upwards to around 2500-2550 (which is a possibility)

Quite a few negatives there Karon.
Overall how do you feel the new rules will affect your Beasties?

I forgot to add: I'll be striking last most of the time because of I3.

---------

Chibi: Honestly, we got worse. Shooting hits us harder because of the changes to artillery (cannons, ST, etc), two ranks firing, only hard cover for intervening models, not overall protection 'till the unit is dead. Etc

We are WORSE in combat, haha, because of init. fighting. That's the biggy there.

I'm thinking shields will be where its at with big blocks, while AHW will be what ambushers will take with Gors. I just think a 6+/6+ save will be better than 6 more s3 attacks.

In 7th, we were a 6/10. In 8th, we are a 4/10.