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Yesterday at my local GW store, our group played nearly 7 games with the new 8th ed rules.

Here is what I got from seeing the games in action.

OH gak ITS THE MAGIC PHASE

In the first game, a 6 wound model was annihilated by the lore of death in turn 1.

In the second game, a wood elf army was obliterated by 4 comets of cassandra

In the third game, a empire sorcerer used the lore of beasts to take on 30 grave guard with the drakenhof banner by herself. Guess who won...

In the fourth game, a bright wizard destroyed a vampire lord on turn 2 causing the entire army to disappear by turn 4

In the fifth game, a high elf army dominated a daemon army by using lore of life....

In the sixth game, a VC army with 4 necromancers just decimated a massive skaven slave army with over 40 sucessful castings of invocation (they got more dice through lore of death which gives you more power dice per wound caused)

In the final game, an ogre army was destroyed by a lizardmen army only using each lores uber spells. It was probably the worst game I have ever seen.

All in all, the big thing we learned besides the end of death star units...
Is that 8th edition is all about surviving your opponets magic phase.
Thus making it a survival horror game.

sounds like scroll caddies are still a must

Too bad people who saw the book are saying Dispel Scrolls are one per army, LOL.

Which, IMO, is good.

Well i've got the book and bundle bag on order .... soon as arrives i'll have to rewrite my army ^_^

Got my trusty ring of hotek!
Will it keep me safe ?
have heard the 'miscast' table is pretty bad

Makes me wonder how dwarf runes will be affected when each armies errata is updated.

Lexx wrote:Makes me wonder how dwarf runes will be affected when each armies errata is updated.

I'm predicting either they stay the same (you can slap multiple on a weapon to customize), or you wind up with generic magic items with some sort of specialized character lists (Engineer Magic Items, Slayer Magic Items, etcetera).

Did the armies in question have roughly equal numbers of wizards?
Nowadays inequalities are caused by one army throwing four casters against his opponent's 1.

Im actually quite happy the basic lores are good. Prevents armies from only having a useful magic phase if they have a good specific lore such as tzeench or vamps.

I would have figured with only 2D6 dice the casters could only get off a couple good spells a turn.

cypher wrote:
I would have figured with only 2D6 dice the casters could only get off a couple good spells a turn.

I haven't seen the book yet but the thread in news and rumors said it was no more than 12 at any given time. So you could cast lore of death spells and then replenish your power pool or in the case of dark elves cast a few spells then power of darkness/stab somebody.

Seon wrote:Got my trusty ring of hotek!
Will it keep me safe ?
have heard the 'miscast' table is pretty bad

Just to clarify... yes... the miscast table is horrific.

The reason I said nearly 7 games is because on the 8th game our friend miscasted on the first turn and literally blew up half his army with a large template str 10 no armor save blast.

With 12 dice max generated with 2d6 its not dispells that you should worry about.... its miscasting.

Karon wrote:Too bad people who saw the book are saying Dispel Scrolls are one per army, LOL.

Which, IMO, is good.

While true, there are about 2-3 OTHER scrolls/items that also dispel or affect spell casting.

So you may only be bringing a single scroll called DISPEL SCROLL, but you may also have the Frog Scroll, the Joker's Shard, etc.

As well, wizards add their level to the Dispel attempt if you choose to use a wizard in your dispel attempt(which can get Dispel IF).

In all honesty I think some of these reports are far fetched and the spells hes qouting are well some of the more powerful ones in the book. (have it here on my lap.) And im wondering how many wizards each player was running to get the one spell that would help there army in every game. Now that ive re read it it looks like every game hes qouting was the 6th spell in the lore

From the looks of the demon game they would have had to roll dwellers as the rest of the lore is fairly useless against demons.

Also if you fail to cast any spell even your first that wizard cant do anything for the rest of the phase.

Also I can see how the wizard would destroy the vampire player as bright is the only lore to use against them ever from the looks of it.

lol also for those that are like omg magic will ruin us. Read the back of the book where the any army can take magic items. Theres some really nasty stuff in there for use against wizards.

Golga wrote:
Also I can see how the wizard would destroy the vampire player as bright is the only lore to use against them ever from the looks of it.

LIGHT is the Anti-Undead/Daemon lore.

A BRIGHT Wizard is a FIRE Wizard, not a LIGHT Wizard.

For those unfamiliar with Imperial connotations of colleges:

Bright - Fire

White - Light

Gold - Metal

Grey - Shadow

Amber - Beasts

Jade - Life

Amethyst - Death

Celestial - Heavens

I want to know how Mork's spirit totem will work.
If unlimited ranks apply (rumoured a couple months ago) a black orc BSB and a large NG unit will shut down most opponents magic phase.

Rank bonus (Which what the spirit totrm is based on I believe) is still capped at 3.

Damn...

However with the spirit totem and the staff sneaky stealin, it is +4 dispel dice and -1 enemy power dice.

But for lizardmen can they have more than 12 dice per casting phase since in their army book it states that a slann can have between forget the starting # up to 20 for casting and don't you get the same amount of dice per casting phase unless you have lore of death which can grant you more?

I don't recall that in the LM book. I would imagine the way it is written in the BRB will override that type of language.

But LM will have access to the Slann gift that gives them an extra die on every spell. From best we could tell, that wouldn't violate the 12 rule.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Damn...

Disappointed as well, and would also have preferred extra CR instead of Stubborn from more ranks.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:However with the spirit totem and the staff sneaky stealin, it is +4 dispel dice and -1 enemy power dice.

And then you combine it with Staff of Sorcery, and you have +1 to your Dispel Rolls to boot (will probably need to be FAQ'd if they mean "Dispel attempts by the bearing wizard" or "Dispel attempts by anyone in the arny).

It seems like a single Ring of Hotek will shut down all offensive magic inside the bubble. People will roll a lot of dice and they'll miscast on every double including the double 6. Since miscasts are deadly, people will be quite wary of casting at anything at all protected by the ring.

I'm not sure if the new magic can be properly dispeled at all since the casting values will be so massive (+4 or even +5 to cast on the big wizards). Just pick a few good magic items to protect your army and treat the enemy magic phase as a very random shooting phase. I don't think I'll ever use a dispel scroll because it's totally futile, and I can't really see how two level 2 wizards of my own would go a long way to stopping a heavy magic army's magic phase.

Protect what you can and design your army so as not to have any targets obviously suspectible to magic missiles. Personally I'm much more worried about 3 Mortars and 3 Great Cannons and 2 Helstroms showing up in just about every Empire army. They'll hurt a lot more than any magic phase, and much more reliably too.

I don't understand why you think dispelling isn't useful.

First of all, let's take an average roll of 4-3 in the magic phase. So you will have 3 dispel dice and they have 7 power dice.

If they use 5-7 of their dice on one spell, you will want to have a dispel scroll available in case they don't hit double 6's. I don't see how this is "futile." If they use 2-4 dice on smaller spells, you'll just have to pick one to use your dice on. You get + to your dispel based on your wizard level as well.

Because magic heavy armies will have 12 power dice every phase (bonus casting dice generated via items etc) and ways to replenish their pool via Power of Darkness, Death spells, etc. If I was to go out of my way to stop enemy magic for two or three turns, I'd need about three or four scrolls and like you said a level 4 of my own. I don't want a hazard lord character that may blow up anytime, and scrolls are 0-1, so that goes out of the window.

I just don't agree that taking wizards only because you want to dispel some spells exists anymore. All in all I think the new magic system makes me want to run with absolutely zero wizards all the time, instead of wanting to amass them.

Of course I might be wrong since I don't have the book and don't have the whole picture yet in my head, but that's how I feel atleast. Of course it helps that I play DE in 8th edition.

Therion wrote: Of course it helps that I play DE in 8th edition.

Seriously. if people cried about Hotek before...

Of course, I suppose level 4s have a not too terrible chance of getting off some lower level castings with their +4 to cast. Even so...

I seriously doubt that magic heavy armies will have 12 dice every phase. The average number will be 7 and very few things are generating that many + dice. Plus you will have some phases where they will get 2-5 dice. Darkness and Death are about the only ways to get more dice, spell wise, so yes, specifically against those 2 lores, it will be worse.

The other point is that while you can take only one scroll of each type, there are a lot of different scrolls. Some that directly affect their wizard.

Seal of destrution and Alfred's magical caket thing seems to be a must if i continue onto 8th with empire. (or just continue with 8 at all)

It seems like a single Ring of Hotek will shut down all offensive magic inside the bubble. People will roll a lot of dice and they'll miscast on every double including the double 6. Since miscasts are deadly, people will be quite wary of casting at anything at all protected by the ring.

Depends on how they faq the ring in the new edition.

Miscast is gone and replaced by lost control which is tied to irresistible force. So do any doubles when casting against the ring count as irresistible as well?

Yea that is a question I have as well. It seems like everything that affects miscasts doesn't work, RaW, right now. We'll see how the erratas go.

It's a miscast table...Ring and Puppet work.

Nice thing about the ring...Is that you can put it on a Cold one champ in a min unit and shooting that rolls to hit doesn't randomize for champions any more.

Killjoy00 wrote:The average number will be 7 and very few things are generating that many + dice.

Don't have the book on me, but doesn't Lord-Manfred generate +3 PD on his own due to bloodlines? VC's are easily going to get 12 PD's, and Dark Elves can probably come close using the extra power dice spell.

Dark Elves also have an item that give them +1 Dispel die.